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-   -   SC goes to Obama, Clinton loses black supporters... (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=93311)

skylark 01-30-2008 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1590504)
Okay this a horrible attempt at pretending you typed that long ass post to make an analogy. :p I certainly didn't read it because I have no REASON to assume it's anything more than wordier(?) redundancy.

;)

Actually, I didn't type the post thinking that it would be an analogy. I realized the irony afterwards and thought I'd be the first to make light of it and give some people in this thread a reason to laugh.

skylark 01-30-2008 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1590594)
Again, this argument fails for me, because it completely ignores that Obama burying the details of his message in a book released before his candidacy and then nowhere else is a form of limiting the dissemination of his message, which is exactly what other candidates have done (which was the original assertion).

I don't think that some "buries" details by putting them in a book. The details are there for anyone who is interested enough to look -- and quite frankly not all people are so why should Obama know that one particular detail is going to be of personal interest to a single voter. You're acting like there are only 1000 copies and someone would have to interlibrary loan the book to read it. And while technically the book was released before his candidacy, I'm pretty sure most people knew where the book was eventually going to lead. The fact that it came out before doesn't mean that he wasn't thinking about running for President when he wrote it. And it certainly doesn't mean that people are less likely to pick it up for insight into what he might do as President.

"This argument fails" makes me laugh a little (in a nice way... calm down, man). It reminds me of debate... by any chance were you a debater in HS or college? I ask because you're really committed to a line-by-line refutation style in your posts.

KSig RC 01-30-2008 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark (Post 1591023)
I don't think that some "buries" details by putting them in a book. The details are there for anyone who is interested enough to look -- and quite frankly not all people are so why should Obama know that one particular detail is going to be of personal interest to a single voter. You're acting like there are only 1000 copies and someone would have to interlibrary loan the book to read it. And while technically the book was released before his candidacy, I'm pretty sure most people knew where the book was eventually going to lead. The fact that it came out before doesn't mean that he wasn't thinking about running for President when he wrote it. And it certainly doesn't mean that people are less likely to pick it up for insight into what he might do as President.

I'd never even heard of his book before you started in on this. I have a degree in English, and I read more than 99% of the USA, I would venture. I read about candidates in a way that most Americans don't even consider. If I didn't realize this avenue existed, it seems like it's not exactly effective or even pushed on any reasonable level, to my mind.

I think you're putting too much emphasis or connotation to "buried" (and maybe I should pick a different word) - it just seems like the book is there, but there is an avalanche of puff-piece material on top, so it sinks to the bottom/back, never to be found except by people who have already read it. Not exactly effective.

Add to this the suspect fact that he profits off book sales, and I'm really just not a fan of saying "read the book, it's there" - and, no offense to you intended, but it kind of creeps me out in a Dianetics sense, too, which is awkward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark (Post 1591023)
"This argument fails" makes me laugh a little (in a nice way... calm down, man). It reminds me of debate... by any chance were you a debater in HS or college? I ask because you're really committed to a line-by-line refutation style in your posts.

It's that obvious? It probably is - that's why I put "for me" on there, though . . . I wanted you to know that I meant it in a 'soft' sense, that it just didn't work for me, not that I think you suck or anything.

The line-by-line action is likely a relic, but I would hate to consider a 500-word opus as some sort of summarized whole - I'd rather give the ideas their own merit and attention. I'm also retarded.

skylark 01-30-2008 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1591045)
not that I think you suck or anything.

I don't think you suck, either. :)

DSTCHAOS 01-30-2008 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark (Post 1591018)
Actually, I didn't type the post thinking that it would be an analogy. I realized the irony afterwards and thought I'd be the first to make light of it and give some people in this thread a reason to laugh.

My point, exactly. ;)

The same after-the-fact reasoning applies to people pretending that a candidate's book should be read.

skylark 01-30-2008 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1591126)
My point, exactly. ;)

The same after-the-fact reasoning applies to people pretending that a candidate's book should be read.

But I don't think that I said that someone had to read an entire book. I believe I pointed out this wonderfully useful thing called an index. I don't think that looking something up in a book is an "unnecessary hurdle" to someone who wants something really specific as to a candidates position on something. Just look up "abortion" "gay marriage" "educational system" or "strict constructionist" and go wild.

I'm not "pretending" that a candidate's book should be read by everyone who wants to vote. I only said that if you want to know what specifically a candidate would like to see done on a certain issue and the candidate wrote a book on politics in america about a year or so ago, instead of assuming and representing to others that the candidate doesn't have a plan, why not find out first by looking it up.

DSTCHAOS 01-30-2008 05:05 PM

Circular discussion.

Drolefille 01-30-2008 07:51 PM

Regarding the idea that people in Florida don't want Obama, and that it wasn't about name recognition, what about reports that of people who voted within the last month, Obama won, and of people who voted earlier than that up to a year (?) ago, Clinton won?

There may be a lot of other factors their, it's not a random population sample, but it shows that Obama gained ground in Florida, not lost it. And that's without making useless promises of "fighting" for Florida's delegates. (And let's not get to Michigan. Of course Clinton wants their delegates counted, every other major candidate pulled his name from the ballot.)


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