Yes, I really do mean that. I cannot think of ONE THING that would be considered hazing.

How can a feeling of pride be hazing? She's not saying anyone made her do anything. Plus, you have no idea who the other groups were or what their policies are, so you have a lot of balls trying to say that something they required their pledges to do is hazing. Before you make that accusation, check the nationall policies. Not everyone's are the same (to wit: A E Phi not being allowed to wear their letters as pledges).

True. What I was referring to [in case you misunderstood] is being forced to wear sorority colors all the time.

We were encouraged to wear buttons, shirts we had been given, etc. as much as possible and no new member minded because we were so excited to be a part of Zeta. Now I KNOW that's not hazing! I'm sure most, if not all, GLOs do that. Participating in traditions such as waiting to wear letters, IMO, facilitates that sisterhood bond, and a pledge class bond. Not all traditions should be followed, true (circling fat type of hazing, for example) but I really feel this one is harmless!

Did you have meetings with NMs only? That's hazing, by the definition.

Did you ever feel stressed during your NM period? That's hazing, by the definition.

Did you wear different shirts on bid day than the actives were wearing, thus setting you apart as pledges? That's hazing, by the definition.

Hazing is defined as ANYTHING that sets the NMs apart from the active sisters. If you want to take it to the absurd level I did, there's absolutely no way to have any kind of NM program without hazing.

And as far as the colors, she said she would have been proud to wear them every day, whether she was told to or not. The word "force" is nowhere in her post. We were "told" that Friday was the day to wear letters on our campus because it was a campus tradition - no one was ever FORCED to - if someone had a dressy presentation or something that day it wasn't like anyone would get on her case for wearing letters!!

SthrnZta, you are getting jumped on here and it's ridiculous. Sororities and fraternities are not McDonald's - every chapter is not homogenous. (And hell, I think even McDonald's has a McLobster roll or something in Maine, so even THEY aren't homogenous.)

Thank you 33, I really appreciate someone finally agreeing with me and helping me prove my point! :D I said earlier that I know there will be those who disagree with me on this particular issue, but I just feel so strongly that you can't call something like that hazing and I'm glad you put such great examples up - great post! Our different traditions set us apart and that's what makes us different and great!

No, busy but not overstressed, and no.

Did you have to wear a different pin than the initiated sisters? That would set you apart (if you had badge attire day) and wouldn't that be hazing...???

Sorry, but neither does yours -- at least not any law I've ever heard of, and I am familiar with the hazing laws of at least some states. I've not run across any hazing law that would cover requiring new members/pledges/whatever to wear their pins or colors. Without more (such as the possible punishment for breaking this rule), I can't even see how it would meet the criteria of the NPC definition:

Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity.

No endangerment of physical or mental health, no risk of injury, not reasonably (at least, not without other factors) a cause of "discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule."

By itself, it just ain't hazing.

Point taken.

You didn't have ANY sort of NM Ed meeting? At all? You just pledged one day and started going to chapter meetings, etc without any formal time set up for NM to learn about your sorority??

No, we had NM meetings, but there were, of course, actives there directing it. That is not against the hazing laws, anyways.

Not ALL of the actives were required to attend. ALL NMs were required to attend. That sets the new members apart, and can therefore be classified as hazing.

You can take anything to ridiculosity...

Did ALL the actives have to attend?

If not, it can be construed as hazing. The NMs were set apart from the actives as there was a special meeting that only they (and a few actives that volunteered) were required to attend.

Oh, and MysticCat, if you look like crap in the sorority's colors, that can cause you discomfort. Hazing.

Are you my sister or something???

I had to wake up at 8am in order to go to initiation. This caused me great discomfort as I went to bed into the wee hours of the morning the night before. So going by this, our ritual and chapter advisors hazed me?

Point very well taken. :D

Quite true! :p I tend to wear the dark turquoises as opposed to the bright ones and thank God, I love the combo of turquoise and grey!

8am? Screw you! I can't say what time I had to get up but lets just say I had 20 minutes of sleep that night. (Not because of my active sisters, just because of the sleeping arrangements).

Oh yeah, the pledge pin. We were required to wear our pledge pin except for the three S's-Shower, Swimming, Sex. Probably sleep as well, I can't remember. Oh, and partying of course. But regular everyday stuff required it. HAZED! I WAS HAZED! We also couldn't initiate until our entire class got an 85 or better on the exam and we couldn't leave the room we took it in until we did so. Only one pledge sister had a problem and we helped her out quickly. I got a 99.5 (damn that omicron! Sorry AOII).

New member ed is not hazing. It is a requirement expected of ALL the members. It has a reasonable, constructive and educational purpose WHEN performed under the supervision (approval) of your nationals.

Our sorority isn't permitted to hold any kind of new member activity, including education meetings, without national approval. That approval covers the dates, locations, the schedule of activities and detailing what the activities are comprised of. This absolves the national group if the chapter screws up.

Separating an individual or a group of individuals from the rest, and requiring them to do something that is not expected of the rest of the members, and has neither reasonable nor constructive educational or service oriented intent, can be considered hazing.

Nationally approved new member education meetings and new education practices, are not hazing.

:D

Every time you post, I am proud to call you my sister...

OMG, SigKap, you were hazed!!! Perish the thought! I think it's awesome to see all the other girls you went through R with in letters around the same time too because we all knew what it meant. It just goes back to the point about campus climate...

AlexMack,
No hard feelings on the 'omicron'...apparently no ones heard of it. lol!!:p