Wow... I really need to get a job with internet access... or something. A girl goes to work all day and comes home to find the major entertainment of my night gone. :( And this thread was just getting interesting...


<crosses fingers that OP comes back... or that we have another set of Sweet Valley Twins :p>

This part almost makes up for the shallowness. It would be a funny looking baby, indeed, and your comment made me snort.

But just try to walk the line between offensively shallow and just truthful a little more carefully because oftentimes, people don't end up getting the groups that they liked first and second round when the whole thing is over.

Give yourself some room to like a normal/ average group if that's who you end up getting a bid from.

Sorry, I thought it only fair that the houses could easily find what she wrote about them.

Well, its something that the rush chair chose for them to wear...the individual members may or may not have liked the outfit choice, but had to go along with it anyhow. :)

(Trust me...there's at least a handful of members in every chapter who don't care for the outfits picked out, for whatever reason. But, we all agree during rush to follow certain guidelines - our individuality is expressed later on. You'll see many threads in the recruitment forum about that sort of thing.)

True. Sometimes we all need reminders as to how random Internet stuff can affect our real lives.

I made a deal with littlemissvixen not to re-post the descriptions until Sunday (the end of recruitment). But you'll definitely get to see them again - just not tonight. :)

Did someone just take some lithium?

So I guess you are not telling us which 6 you are going back to...code names, of course.

This thread is highly entertaining!

littlemissvixen, I know it seems like people are jumping all over you, but it's because you haven't grasped the priniciple idea here. Sometimes things are okay to think, but they are usually best left unsaid (or untyped!) It's called tact. We may all think that the groups outfits were tacky, but most of us would keep that to ourselves. The reason is that we understand that what's on the outside often does not reflect on the inside so making snap judgements usually does us no good. That's why rush is more than one party long. It does take more than 25 minutes to get a feeling about a chapter. You may have narrowed your choices down according to physical attributes...that's fine if that's the most important piece of the puzzle to you. We just have a lot more years and a lot more experience under our belts. We've seen girls with your attitude come and go, having shot themselves in the foot by not watching what they say. You've done good by rethinking what you've posted so far. I just hope that the sorority you pledge is not one that will later have the opportunity to read nasty things you've written about them without even knowing anything about them. Don't discount this as a possibility...hopefully it won't happen to you, but we've seen it happen NUMEROUS time! Best of luck with the rest of recruitment....I'm sure none of us are really wishing you anything but success (well maybe only a few!)

Thank you for the advice, and I'm taking it. I honestly haven't said anything remotely bad about girls who are still in the running/who I am still in the running with, so my future sisters don't need to worry :)

I hope that you will take this in the spirit that it was intended:

I told my daughters ( who had a VERY sucessful rush )
Never say anything negative about anyone.....you never know who is watching, reading, listening...or forwarding

It is not impressive to read negatives about a group or anyone....

ZTA72

Wow, I don't read for two days because I just started school again and look what happens :p I'm in the entertained camp. Honesty is good and well, but there are ways to be honest without coming across as shallow. Regardless, good luck with the rest of rush.

Granted, I am not in a sorority...I'm in a fraternity. And I've been a long-time lurker (with very few posts) on this site. But to be honest, most of the women posting in this thread are coming off very negatively. Yes, she may have said some things that were shallow. However, the vibe that people outside this conversation would get from reading your responses is that a bunch of sophisticated sorority women (many of them far older than the original poster) are sitting on the edges of their seats hoping that she gets cut and is in tears. That is not endearing at all to sororities in general and frankly comes off as just as petty as the poster's original comments. There is a difference between wanting a PNM to realize that houses may have other strengths besides physical appearance. That's great. But the way it is coming off in text, despite intentions, is that you are excited and hoping she gets her feelings hurt (not to mention a slight undertone of "pretty chapters aren't as good as non-pretty chapters at sisterhood, etc" which is just as unfounded as "ugly chapters aren't as good"). If you really care about how all groups are perceived then maybe you should step back and realize how nasty some of your responses sound, not only to non-Greeks but also to Greeks that are not active members of GreekChat. I'm not saying this for everybody, because many have expressed their opinions in a very mature way. Some of you, however, have not and in my book that is just as shallow and catty (even more so, in some ways) then LittleMissVixen's original post.

Flame away.

JWSteele,

You're on to something there, and maybe we just shouldn't comment.

It's just weird when you suspect that someone maybe be ruining her own recruitment by being openly critical of chapters. Should you just not say anything at all for fear of seeming gleeful about potential bad results?

I don't know.

I deleted a few of mine that in retrospect contributed to the issue you describe. But it's hard not to love the snark when the OP is so clearing dishing it out and takes some effort to not go to that level.

I think it's very valid and important feedback, and if done with poise and tact it is invaluable. And many of the women in the thread did just that. But some of the posts came off as catty. I just think that advice like that should be carefully worded, that's all.

Maybe it's just me, but not bashing some one's group who they have put heart and soul in is just good manners... and good advice for life.
call it what you want
ZTA72

Rats! This is what I was thinking, too. Now it's too late.

Look. We're talking about a process that involves thousands of young women devoting hundreds of thousands of hours over the course of each school year to their shmoozing skills, matching outfits, decorations, chants, song-and-dance routines, rotational techniques, and even seminars with marketing consultants.

It doesn't make sense to have an attack of the vapors when we learn that -- mercy! -- a consumer of this marketing is actually INFLUENCED by appearances! Break out the smelling salts.

If shallow marketing didn't work on PNMs, groups would not waste their time. I don't think anyone would have jumped down Vixen's throat for saying, "ABC's pref decorations were so beautiful! I felt like I was walking into a fairy castle! I decided right then on ABC!" But honestly, that kind of thing is even less substantive than attractiveness. You can probably learn more about the vibe of a group from the looks of the girls than you can from their skill at pinning Christmas lights to the ceiling.
________
Http://Vaporizer.Org/

JWSteele, Thank you!

I'm curious to know which one is my cousin's house. ;) I think I figured it out but I am not sure.

AMEN LowCSharp! I always like your posts...but then again, I am a musician....:)

Amen.

Oh and Low C Sharp---thank you too for your nice addition to JWSteele's words!

I might add one more small piece---These 1,206 registered PNM's, along with the over 2,000 collegians and advisors in the chapters ALL had to put on their marketing skills for 29 --yes I said 29 parties/invites within a 48 hour period-----yes I said 48 hour period. (Open house and 1st invite) No other university in the country has that many events happening in that short of time!

I'm new as an actual registered user of GC and mostly a lurker too, and while I applaud JWSteele and get what he's saying and want to stand firmly in his "mature" camp, I gotta tell you, this is the first thread I've come across that I went all the way back to page 1 and read every post. Maybe it's a girl thing, but for good or bad, I've been highly entertained by this thread. :)

You are so right! That is why I really, really HATE recruitment! It is so false and cheesy! I hope no one joins AOII because they liked our dresses at pref! I guess some do, so I shouldn't be surprised. It really is hard to convince people that sorority life is more than just a popularity contest when we make our intake process one (speaking of recruitment in general not MS secrets of AOII so don't start that!:D.)

Yes, this really turns me off. I would love to find a group of sisters to bond with and to find a philanthropy to contribute to, but this other stuff drives me crazy. It sounds like a lot of high school drama. (I want to leave that behind!)

I'm trying to remember, like someone else said, that not all the girls are like this. I wish the best for littlemissvixen and I hope that means she ends up in a place where other girls might be a good influence on her. Truly, I'm not trying to sound like some goody two shoes, I'm trying to convince myself that I should still give recruitment a try. :)

It all depends on the school's greek system. In really competitive systems, all of this really matters. You have to get past the popularity component before you can find out if you can have a connection with the groups. In smaller systems like at my alma mater, it's no problem. Sorority life is much more than pretty girls and pretty dresses (though there is nothing wrong with wanting to look your best!) I've become more of a feminist through the years. I truly believe that EVERY woman would benefit from and enrich the greek system. We can't change the ugly parts of recruitment until someone is brave enough to make the change. If you do decide to rush (and there are GREAT reasons to do so!) just be prepared to look past the superficial, ignore the gossip and decide for yourself what is right for you!
P.S. I'm blonde but smart, too!

Side Note: Large numbers of girls + little to no sleep = drama and/or brutal honesty.

Loved this quote! It made me laugh out loud because it is so true!

Pinning lights to the ceiling - Hee hee:p

I'm not trying to presume/assume anything, but did you read the whole thread with all her posts?

While it was fun to read someone being so open, to reduce the problem mentioned in the thread to merely having trouble with judging groups by the girls' appearance is an oversimplification, I think. She was pretty openly dismissive of many groups. She's not obligated to like everyone, but some stuff can be left unsaid, and if they are said, you're probably going to get judged for it.

I agree that using decorations would be no better a method to rank groups, but it would be less likely to deeply offend anyone because it's so much less personal.

Thanks for the 'balls' JwSteele and LowC. I think we are quick to forget that we (as the rushers) were probably pretty shallow too. We've all flipped through the picture books and paid more attention to the more attractive PNM's. I don't consider myself shallow, but I was guilty of it too.

I do agree with anyone who was more concerned about her anonymity being compromised. But, please, let's not sugarcoat this process anymore than it is. We all had some shallow biz-natches as our sisters...hopefully, vixen will fit in where she's meant to be. :D

Thank you! I've just had to catch up on this thread and was hoping somebody would say this before I reached the end. It's easy to see things clearly with a little more life experience under our belts, so don't be too quick to judge a college-aged girl for being shallow. I don't think most of us were having SUPER deep conversations at rush. We all know it's a superficial process on both sides....don't act like littlemissvixen is the only PNM in history to judge people based on first appearances.

Amen Sister!
 

I am with you!!!!!!!! Poor LMV came here for support and she is practically being hazed by all the gc'ers! I have already said this to her in a PM, but I know that I definitely was looking at the appearances of each chapter. It's just what we (as humans) do. That is not to say that my chapter was all of the best looking girls or that I cut other houses because of physical attributes/looks, but I remember walking into a house and looking around and thinking, "They are so cute!!!!!" And it is the same on the other side....It never failed that comments on score cards were "pretty" "cute" "adorable," not "smart," "witty," or "involved." (ok, sometimes they said that :) ) I think that especially at this point in her rush, looks and shallow convo's are all LMV has to go by. Let's cut her some slack!!!!!

MVisKD...your last post is venturing precariously close to membership selection details, and I refrained from quoting you, in case you would like to go back and edit.

I understand that we don't want to be mean and seem to enjoy anticipating other people's misfortunes, but are you sure you all want to go down the "yeah, we're all superficial and judge by appearances" path?

Sure, as human beings appearances make an impression on us and recruitment is no different, but come on now, the rankings and descriptions in this thread were not the kind of comments that I think any GLO probably allow in MS or that the group itself holds as standards for membership.

I actually didn't say that. I said that it's a superficial process and a lot of us were more superficial at that age. I'll say it again though, I don't think what she said in her first post was that bad. After that I think she was playing to the crowd a bit....enjoyed the shock value and peoples reactions. She's probably not coming across that way in person though, I just don't get the feeling she's walking around pointing out peoples chipped pedicures at rush parties.

No, I doubt she's acting that way at parties either, but it might be hard enough being a junior that she really needs to be looking for membership at some of the chapters that she is dismissing for reasons that seem kind of lame.

And I didn't mean you specifically, but look at the last five or so posters' comments. What underlying message do you see there?

Like everyone else, I was enjoying the thread. The OP seems to have a great sense of humor, but lots of what she was posting was a bad idea. We probably should be careful in defending it.

I'd say it's more than "precariously close."

If the OP wants to base her decision about chapters based on appearances, that's fine and that's her choice. If she chooses to post them on the internet, that's again, also her choice. If her respective chapters see them and choose to cut her based on her comments that she made on a public internet board - that will kinda come back to her. Hence why people told her back on page one that she should be discrete.
While some PNMs might make notes in their books/guides etc. those aren't getting posted on a public board where the members of different chapters can go and look at them. And while she may not have said them about ABC, ABC could still be very offended by those comments and choose to cut her just the same.
Is formal recruitment superficial? Yes, it's fast and exhausting and prettied up with decorations and similar looking outfits. I would certainly hope that the OP isn't looking for the end result to be as superficial. If sheis than she will surely be disappointed. These chapters are looking for sisters to contribute to their membership. And in my humble opinion being in a sorority is about a lot more than just being pretty.

Oh totally, I agree she's dismissing chapters for lame reasons. I'm not defending that in any way. But honestly, if I had posted a rush story on GC when I went through there would have been stupid reasons in my story as well. That's all I'm saying.

Defending someone bashing pedicures???
I like nice feet and hands but hello, maybe someone tripped coming in the door. It happens, like your rush.....
Everyone is not perfect 100 % of the time.
ZTA72

The maximum number of chapters you can go to for first invite is 10. The OP was invited to 6.

I have a feeling that the internet may not be the *only* place she is expressing her opinions. Did it occur to anyone that GCers may be doing her a favor by calling her out on her attitude?

I think we are sort of Electronic Psychologists (I will call it Epsilon Psi for short). PNMs can bounce anything off of us and whatever our reaction, it is better to try it out on us before it gets her into hot water.

As you can see, we all react to her comments in different ways, as would the actives.