Just talked to my daughter on the phone
 

She said of the two parties she went to today she is very thrilled with one of the sororities and is really hoping on a pref invite and and a bid from them. The other one is "OK" with her she said she would probobly be happy there too. She isn't as upset as she was first of the week when some of the favorites cut her. Also she said that a LOT of girls are being cut from sororities that they really wanted and a lot have dropped out of rush because of this (like 200 I think she said) but she said if she gets a knock on her door tomorrow morning she will be in tears because that will mean that she didn't get any invites to any pref parties. I just think the whole system is messed up and I don't understand why you HAVE to have a 4.0 or be a "pageant winner" to be considered by sororities. That is not exactly what it is supposed to be about, is it? I am starting to wonder if maybe she has gone to the wrong school. But if she gets an invite from that one sorority and a bid from them it will all work out I think.

i shouldn't have used the phrase "mass exodus." i apologize. she mentioned that she believed many girls were done after today based on either not having any more options or choosing not to continue with the options they had remaining. sorry about that.

imo, we shouldn't paint a picture of rush being made up ONLY of young women with perfect gpa's and resumes, "pageant title" winners, saints, etc, b/c most of the people here know that's pretty ridiculous. of course there are a tremendous number of girls going through rush who are several of these things, although i doubt any saints, but i would seriously question anyone who was a member of a sorority at a school similar to auburn and will not admit that there will be girls who are given bids on monday who......let's see how to say this......wouldn't win a resume or even personality contest with many of the girls who were cut. i'm not trying to imply that this isn't a sorority's choice, but i do think its a little unfair to paint a picture of a group made up of ALL perfect young women in EVERY way and this is the sole reason great girls get cut. i realize i'm about to get totally bashed, but i just felt i needed to say this.

It only takes one. One group that you like, one party you go to and one bid to accept. Don't worry about numbers and who's doing what. Just be happy with ONE.

But the girls going through at Auburn aren't a representative sample of young women, or even young women at Auburn. They're a group of people who self-selected to be part of this system. For the most part they have 3.5+ GPA coming out of high school and a lot of activities. Because they've heard how competitive recruitment is, they will be presenting themselves physically as well as they can with great clothes, hair, etc.

Sure on bid day, some girls with bids won't be any "better" than some girls who got cut or dropped out. But the girls who got bids may have known young women in the groups before recruitment even started, have more influential home town connections, better recs, whatever. They may have been picked up and shown around by members who were better at drawing them out and held more positive influence in the group. Who knows?

Don't drive yourself crazy with the junk you can't control.

It's an SEC recruitment. It is what it is.

Also, you have to keep in mind that during round 1, they have 25 minutes to make an impression. During that time, they meet a limited number of members. If they meet 5 women in 25 minutes, they still only met 3% of a chapter of 150 members. As I said earlier, with groups the size of the groups at Auburn, it's likely that any young woman would find a niche within any of the groups, it's also likely that those aren't the members that they end up meeting in those 25 minutes. The most intelligent, personable, and beautiful woman isn't going to "click" with each of the 150-200 members of a chapter. In a way, it's luck of the draw on who they meet and converse with for those first couple parties. Also, these sorority women are meeting so many PNMs in a short period of time with little time to get to know them, so even the most ideal PNM could get lost in the shuffle. There can be name mix ups, rushers who forget who was who, who were so nervous themselves that they got confused, etc. It's total chaos for them too. It's also nerve wracking for them.

When you add in release figures, cuts will be heavy earlier in the process than in the past. However, there are fewer disappointments during that last round and on bid day, because the chapters kept inviting the women that they really really wanted. If you have to cut 50-60% of the women who attended your parties, that can be a whole lot of women. In the end, if there are 16 chapters, each chapter can only take 6% of the PNMs. So, 94% essentially end up cut from (or PNMs have chosen to cut) each chapter by the time all is said and done on bid day. I can see how women can end up disappointed that way.

I agree 100% with what you are saying. It's unfair and somewhat rude to act as if the reason a girl wasn't given a bid or invite back if because everyone else "out did" her or is just marvelous. This is Auburn. Yes, it is a good school but it is not Harvard. I am sure the majority of girls going through had good grades and activities but...I'm sure there are many who on the more average side, and I'll ditto that for similar schools. I know MANY girls who went through rush at similar schools who did NOT have the stellar GPAs, activities, and perhaps personalities that GCers are speaking of. And guess what? These girls got bids. So, I'm a bit baffled by the idea that all these PNMs are knockouts. I don't know the reason wonderful girls are cut at Auburn. It may just be a fluke, or perhaps they didn't know the girl well enough. But I can't deny that knowing girls my age, some of these reasons ARE shallow. Let's not sugarcoat it.

Actually, the things you have said are the EXACT things I have been telling my sister, however, my sister isn't on this message board and this is a thread about the progression of the Auburn recruitment process this year, not a "rah, rah" thread. I am expressing MY feelings about what has been going on, NOT my sister's. Actually, I shouldn't use the word "expressing" and probably use "venting" to more acurately describe what I am doing. I'm sorry if you misunderstood or thought I was posting a transcript of my conversations with my sister, because that couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm not sure if you have read this entire thread or just based your comments on my one post, but I assure you I am very aware of SEC recruitment and all that comes along with it. I also assure you that I wouldn't be on this board if I didn't love my sister and want the very best for her. I know the very best thing for her concerning rush is for me to use this board as an outlet for my frustrations and save my "rah, rah" speeches for my conversations with her. I appreciate your extreme positivity, but I think you should probably use it to encourage the people in this thread who really don't know what this process is all about.

Non Greek Organizations
 

My daughter is already looking forward to all of the other non Greek organizations that she can join at Auburn. I am hoping that she will not be let down in those areas also as she is wanting to be very involved. She has a lot to offer in any organization really. I am wondering if she doesn't get a bid this week if once she joins some of those other organizations and gets active on campus the sororities will see what they missed by chosing her and she will get a bid later on because they will see that she could be a valuable member to them. I realize of course though that the quota thing may keep them from being able to offer her a bid. I believe that Auburn needs more sororities so that more girls will get a chance to join. What is y'alls feelings on that?
P.S. Holding my breath here until about 9:00 am when I call her to see what happens today!
Let's just say she gets invited back to those two parties today, what are her chances of getting a bid?
She said she talked to a lot more girls at each party yesterday and they were taking her around the room repeating her name over and over. Is that a good sign? She said that she TOLD them she really loved their sorority and felt like she fit in and was at home with them. Will they remember that?

Good luck to all of your daughters!!

This has been discussed a lot about Ole Miss and Alabama on this board, who rival Auburn in the "competitive" category. The reality is, there are enough spots for every woman who goes through recruitment if the women are willing to join any chapter. The stories we're hearing here aren't that women are cut from every chapter, but that they are upset after getting cut from their favorites or their legacy chapter. The addition of a new group doesn't prevent this. In fact, if you take the same number of PNMs and divide them among one additional group, that means that the most popular groups can take FEWER women. Many of the women going into recruitment at these schools ONLY want to be in what is considered the "top tier" sororities. You'll hear them talk about "old row" chapters being most desirable and being unwilling to join any other chapter. They also tend to look down on the smallest chapter as being undesirable. Yet, if that smallest chapter (at any school, really) took quota, the whole face of the chapter can change with that new member class.

Bottom line: It isn't that there aren't enough spots for all the women. The way quota is determined creates spots for all the women going through. Whether they can get into what they consider "THE sorority" is another story...

This isn't exactly true. Quota is determined on how many women go to pref, not how many women sign up for recruitment. Generally there AREN'T enough spots for everyone and there are several women who just fall through the cracks not because they aren't maximizing their options but because, for whatever reason, they didn't stand out.

Yes, but if all the women maximized their options through preference, there would be enough spots. While we occasionally hear of someone being cut from all groups, we more frequently hear about women who didn't get invites to A, B, or C and therefore, drop out of recruitment of their own volition.

We Just Can't Know Why.....
 

Do not beat yourself up wondering why your daughter was cut from her favorites or isn't receiving bids from many sororities! There is no way to know why things turn out the way they do. Yes, the truth is that many ofthe girls who will get bids are not valedictorian, homecoming, honor society go getters. But they were the ones who were able to make the most of their 20 minutes of facetime with each house. There are some girls who are naturally good at this and others who struggle with it. For a lot of girls, this is not the optimum atmosphere to showcase their personality. The sorority girls have seen many of these girls on paper via recomendations and rush applications. When they get a chance to see them in person it is up to the girl to make the most of that brief time. Some can do it and some can't. It doesn't mean that one girl is better than the other it just means that she was more comfortable in the rush situation than the other girl. As parents we would do anything to ensure our childs happiness and well being and your feelings are totally understandable. Please keep us posted on what your daughter's or sister's choices are, I truly wish them every happiness!

Hmmmm...I'm thinking about skipping church to await AuburnMom's post.

Nahh...I'll check back later! :)

Dropped
 

My daughter got dropped from sorority recruitment. I really just don't understand what the heck is going on down there. I am very very sick and mad and upset about this. She says she doesn't know what she did wrong. She said it isn't any big deal. I said maybe that is what is wrong she didn't try her best and take this seriously enough. I am starting to wonder if she even belongs at Auburn.

Tell your daughter she did NOTHING wrong. She sounds like a wonderful woman with so much to offer. The only problem is the recruitment system! It is nearly impossible to expect 1600 amazing women to all be remembered and stand out to 16 groups. Try remembering more than 100 women...by name, activities, personality. Try remembering them when you maybe get to meet 2 of those women for twenty minutes. Try convincing 221 of your other sisters that your rushee is perfect when you're the only one who met her. Then multiply that by 16. It's a horrible situation. I am so sorry that things didn't work out for your daughter, but tell her that if she really wants to join Greek life, try COB. You never know what may happen. If one of the sororities is lucky, they'll pledge her.

Auburn is a great school - sure it's not 'Harvard' but what is, Harvard??

Second, yes, recruitment is competitive but it isn't everything. There's a reason your daughter chose Auburn. It's a school. It's a spirit. There's no campus on earth like it. Greek life is not the end all be all at Auburn. There are a ton other ways to be involved on campus. I had just as many friends that were independent as greek. I know it's a tough time but don't let it get your daughter down. It will be tough but she'll weather it. War Eagle!!!!

Oh Momto2gals, I'm so sorry. I know how you feel. My daughter was dropped, too, when she went through.
She had good friends in one group, though, and when they had a few spaces to fill, they pulled her in.
Then after her first recruitment on the sorority side, she found out they had to cut MANY girls just to get down to the number they were allowed to invite back. There got to be no real rhyme or reason why they cut, they just had to limit who they invited back.
The good thing about Auburn - and I had children at both Auburn AND at Alabama at the same time - is that although sororities are a kind of big deal, they really are less at Auburn than at Alabama and other SEC schools. Plenty of girls make it "big on campus" without being in a sorority.
I know that after 24 hours, it was WAY less of a big deal to daughter than it was to me. By the time she was asked to join, it was nice, but there were other things to do, too.

Correct me if I am reading this worng, but you actually said that to your daughter? It seems as if you are more interested in her being in a sorority than she is.

You are starting to wonder if she belongs at Auburn? Because she didn't get a bid? You've got to be kidding me? The last time I checked, I thought that we went to college to get an education. To question whether you belong at a college based on if you get a bid or not, shows a SERIOUS set of whacked out priorities or an obvious lack in faith in your daughter that she can find a niche on her own in a non greek organization.

I feel sorry for your daughter, but not just for getting cut from rush, but having to listen to comments like this from her own mom...

Like AGDee has said, the way quota is determined, there are enough spots for every PNM as long as she is willing to join any chapter. However, a PNM must attend preference. If the number of women being cross-released (meaning PNMs cut from all chapters, not ones who drop out on their own because they were unhappy with their choices) before preference is high, then extension may be an option. Then again, one must look at the makeup of PNMs being cross-released. If 75% of those cross released are grade risks, then that's why they were cut and there would be no extending.

One must also think about how an established Greek community will treat a new chapter. Many PNMs are looking to join the "best" (read: old, established, traditional) chapter and may not give a new chapter a chance. Because quota would decrease (unless more PNMs sign up) the top chapters would take fewer new members, and recruitment could become more competitive.

No one likes geting cut . . .
 

Momto2gals - I am truly sorry at the way things went for your daughter. But these boards are full of stories of heartbreak that turned to joy - either through informal recruitment, involvement in other activities, or any other way of finding your place on campus.

It's tough - but your daughter may well learn a great deal about handling rejection (which, let's face it, we all have to do) with grace and then moving on to the next thing.
I hope she will go through informal recruitment - if she does, be sure and let us know what happens!

Exactly. Sometimes I think it's the PNM's who are shallow and superficial and not the recruitment process........

Just a little reminder........It's HER life not yours. Let her do what she wants and be happy for her.

But you know, a lot of it is in who cuts you when. Let's say that a PNM gets asked back to 15 sororities after first parties and has to choose 12. She cuts M, N, and O. She doesn't know the groups too well yet but would have been comfortable in all 15. Then the big cuts come after second parties and she's suddenly down from 12 groups to 5 or 6. Later she's released from rush. She might have fit in wonderfully with M, N, and O and they were great chapters, nothing "wrong" with them. It was just a luck of the draw thing.

This is why I maintain that in a big recruitment, the girls who get cut more heavily after first parties often end up with more options later than those whose heavy cuts come after second parties. A lot of times, the showier sororities might keep a girl until after second parties because she's a legacy or because she has good recs but they don't intend to pledge her. Then they cut her and she can't go back to the groups she cut earlier.

I thought a PNM maximized her invitations and had to cut some groups for the next round, she could drop M, N, O by doing a "regret with interest" . Then if the number of a PNM's invites are less than the number of parties, add M, N, O back into her schedule.

Of course M,N,O might be less-inclined to invite the PNM back knowing that she had let them go once...

Now that there is the New Recruitment (forgot the correct title), aren't the largest groups with the best rates of return being forced to make huge cuts after Round 1?

Yes, but most of them release the most heavily after second parties because they have to keep legacies and recommended women for at least one invitational.

I don't know if Auburn allows "regret with interest" these days. They didn't in the seventies or eighties and I think they should, particularly for the PNMs who come into recruitment not knowing the groups beforehand. There are so many groups that's it hard to tell them apart!("Who was it that had ladybugs?" "Whose colors were double blue?", etc.)

It's a mix of factors, and the PNMs don't get that much control. Dropping out when they don't like their remaining options is one of the few decisions that they do get to make. (Even signing a bid card, unless you suicide, you might get your second or third choice.)

Unless we expect them just to be a the mercy of the groups' selection and matching process all the way through, I think that we have to see that dropping out is no worse than a group cutting a girl after first based one 15 minute interaction. Sure, it's short sighted, but I don't think it's fair to the women to call them the superficial ones when really the worst we can honestly say is that they are AS superficial not more so.

SEC recruitment makes you crazy. I think it's really important for moms and dads to make sure that they don't make is seem like a bigger deal than it is. I firmly believe daughters would be better off with parents who took the attitude that "hey, that's a setback, but now what are you going to do? When we toured campus, you mentioned that you really wanted to be on the group that. .. have you looked into that?"

If you try to ride in on your white horse to rescue her, it sends the message that the setback is more important than it is. It also sends the message that she should look to you primarily for comfort at a stage of life and an occasion of such little longterm significance that it might be much better to encourage her to go out and do something herself.

Spending the day with mom means it was a day spent not meeting new college friends and sets her apart further.

Now, I know that Auburn's bid day involves parents, so it might really be nice to have you there. But push her ahead of this disappointment, don't wallow in it with her or attach any significance to it.

By the way, AuburnMom...how are things going for your daughter?

Someone here explained to me that inviting back regret with interests really messes up the release figures. I think the reasoning went like this: since the number of girls that you can invite goes down with each round, if a group re-invites a RWI, they essentially choose her over a guest who attended the round rather than regretted.

It seems like there'd be a way to build in regrets with interest in to the process, like the flex lists, though.

I couldn't have said it better myself:)

Regret with interest helps both parties. It gives the PNMs a chance to look over groups they still could fit in. Same way with the groups. They can look over someone again they were willing to invite back and help their numbers also if PNMs cut them heavily.

Oh, I agree. But some of the panhellenic advisers on here, I believe, explained that it was harder to implement that it's used to be.

It seems like it would be easier with priority ranking; the groups could just pick them back up if others declined invitations.

There are always a couple of folks on here who really feel it's important for PNMs to be able to cut groups even if they aren't going back to the maximum number of parties, but I tend to think it's in their long term best interest to have as full a schedule if they can.

I am usually a lurker on this board but today will jump in. I wonder if the PNM's took the Myers Briggs Personality Type Indicator test what it would show? Would they all be the same type? I think that rushing as an introvert is painful and a killer at an SEC school. Groups need both Queen Bee's and Worker Bee's in order to be successful. The QB has the great plans and is a good "front person" and the WB is the quiet behind the scenes type who can implement the plans making the QB look great. I have found this to be true in my experience with Junior League and the Officer's Wives Clubs. When you have a room full of QB's there can be problems. Momto2, I am so sorry for your daughters experience. I feel your pain, as it is exactly what I went thru years ago. My introverted daughter (4.45 GPA, Honors College, great resume & looks, size 6, yadda yadda yadda) went to 3 prefs and got no bids at an SEC school. I think rushing was like walking on cut glass for her but she took herself out of her comfort zone and did it. Since she was from out of state (another hurdle) I encouraged it so she could make friends. For her entire life she had been moved every 2 years ripping her away from her friends, dance class, activities etc. After she got "the call" she got involved in a lot of activities and was happy and in Jan. she was COB'd b/c by that time many girls got to know her slowly and realize how great she was.

I guess my point was that not everyone who starts recruitment and wants to be in a sorority will get a bid no matter how open minded they are. I agree that in many cases it's because the girls will only consider the top tier houses and that's their own fault. However it doesn't sound like momto2gals's daughter had that attitude. So why was she cut? Who knows... Like others have said PNMs are required to rank the houses and someone has to be last on the list, so they're pretty much at the mercy of the chapters that invite them back.

momto2gals - if your daughter still wants to be in a sorority she can go to go to the greek life office and sign up for COB. There's no guarantee that the houses she really liked will do COB or that she'll get a bid out of it but she might end up finding another house that she likes just as much. But I agree with others it might be good to back off a little and let your daughter figure out how she wants to continue on her own. She might decide that she's more interested in other campus groups and that sorority life isn't as much of a priority as she thought. I know a bunch of people who go to or went to Auburn and only 1 of them is in a sorority, and she didn't pledge until her sophomore year. All of them love it and wouldn't trade their experience at Auburn for anything so I'm sure your daughter will find her niche.

auburnmom and elaine - how's it going for your girls?

Army Wife,

Did your daughter list all three on her bid card and not become a quota addition? That' really interesting. I thought almost every SEC campus had gone to guaranteed matching for girls who maximized their options.

I only know about one SEC school's rush first hand, but I think the groups do end up with a mix of true personality types, but that the members who would naturally be introverts are socially trained, for lack of a better word, to believably fake extroversion during recruitment. (Sort of what your daughter must have done to be invited to three prefs.)

I think it's true for introverts with good manners generally that they make themselves interact in situations that require it, even though they'd rather hang back.

In the words of a very wise Director of Greek Life at Ole Miss, "Rush is not a guaranteed process." I will never forget when I heard those words when I went through rush at Ole Miss in August of 1996 (Before they moved it back!).

I have seen many wonderful PNMs go through rush at Ole Miss and they are released by all of the sororities. I wouldn't take it personally and I'm sure your daughter tried her best. Recruitment at any SEC school is competitive, especially Auburn where I'd say most of the sororities there are top chapters of their International Organization. This means it's going to be harder to journey through the entire process. And like some others on here have said, I bet at least 90% of the PNMs going through recruitment at Auburn, all have high GPA's, activities, legacies, lots of recs, etc....so they can't take everyone but that shouldn't reflect upon your daughter's character or any other PNM who was released.

I would tell your daughter to put her chin up and to get ready for her first week of classes at Auburn on the 16th. I would also tell her to get involved with other groups on campus. She also should sign up for COB with the Greek Life office. Auburn is an excellent university, so she should be able to submerge herself in everything else going on there.

That's not it at all
 

What I mean to say is this. I KNOW my daughter is a wonderful person and would be an amazing addition to any sorority at Auburn. I was a little bit ill when I wrote that first comment this morning. What I meant by her doing something wrong is that just maybe she didn't talk enough or ask the sororities enough questions about themselves or something. She has always been just a little bit on the shy side. She has an amazing resume and although her grades could have been a bit better (3.5) I am hearing stories of girls with lower GPAs that got bids. When you want something bad enough in life you have to learn to put out 110 percent effort to get it. All I meant was that maybe she didn't put out the effort she should have. I have always pushed my girls to work as hard as they can because that is just a lesson you have to teach your kids in life. To try their hardest at everything. And the other thing I meant was that maybe it would have been easier for her at a different university to get into a sorority. I have not given up on Auburn though. I am sincerely hoping she will find many activities to get involved in on campus. There are a lot of non Greek organizations that she can get involved in if they will let her. I was just under the impression that it was a lot easier to be connected to things if you were in a sorority. I definately don't want her sitting in the dorm all day on the computer or whatever. She is a wonderful girl that has made me very proud. You all don't know her or some of the things she has been through in her life. You don't know what my life has been like either. For her to even be at Auburn is an amazing accomplishment for her. She is just an amazing person and I am not just saying that because I am her Mother. Many people in our community have seen her in that same light. She is disappointed but she isn't giving up by a long shot. I haven't raised her to give up. I hope you all can see where I am coming from. And yes to be in a sorority is a BIG DEAL. If it wasn't a big deal then why bother to go through recruitment. For one thing it will guarantee her a place in a dorm next year which is important also. It will help her make some good quality friends because like I said she is a little shy. And it also teaches one responsibilities, giving to the community, traditions, respect for oneself and others. There are LOTS of reasons to pledge a sorority and honestly I can't think of a single one not to. Maybe some folks don't feel that way but that is just the way I feel.
Ok. I won't write anymore on here.
Most of you have been very helpful and concerned and thoughtful and for that I am grateful and appreciative. God Bless.
By the way.. I was an Alpha Sigma Tau in college back in the day. I wouldn't take NOTHING for that experience and probobly wouldn't have lasted in college a semester without my sorority sisters and my duties.
I hope I have clarified a little bit more about what I meant and why I feel the way I do.

Alas, no she did not. Our family knew zero about Greek life b/c I wasn't Greek in college (grew up in a family with 4 females and the LAST thing I wanted in college was to be around more estrogen) and her dad went to the U.S. Military Academy so we were bozos in the entire process. Being out of state with no connections she had no preconceived notions on "top tier etc." and would have joined any group as long as it wasn't full of serial killers. There was one sorority that was smaller than the others and the tent talk included "they didn't previously make quota therefore they will soon close down" so she felt she shouldn't join something that would disappear soon (like her entire life did in the military with each move) so she suicided. (Helpful advice from other 18 yr olds from that state who knew everything - NOT) Very bad move but back then we had never heard of Greek Chat and knew nothing about sororities except than they would be friends for life, encourage volunteerism and make a difference in the grander scheme of things. I told her I thought it would be like Junior League for college kids. Funny thing is, the smaller sorority is still there and she actually said they were the nicest, least phony of many of the groups there during rush. Go figure.

Perhaps your daughter being in a sorority was more important to you than it was to her?

I'm sure that your daughter is a great girl, but if she's saying at the end of her recruitment that it wasn't a big deal that she was dropped, then maybe it really isn't to her and maybe you shouldn't get so bent out of shape about it.

I'm sure she's still feeling bad at the end of the day, even if it really isn't that big of a deal to her (rejection never feels good to anyone, period) and maybe she needs your unconditional support, not you quizzing her on if "she tried her best" and questioning whether or not she should have gone to another school to have a more successful recruitment experience. BTW, the answer to your question is YES: your daughter probably would have had a much easier time getting placed in a "top" sorority at another school but she chose AUBURN, not another school. At the end of the day, that's apparently more important to her than recruitment.

I'm not sure of the exact proportions at Auburn but at other SEC schools Greeks are in the minority. You can't really expect that the sorority connections will make your college experience THAT much easier. Either way, a student has to be willling to take the initiative and really own their college experience. I'm nearly certain your daughter won't sit on her computer all day and become a hermit simply because she didn't join a sorority.

And give me a break: the guaranteed place in a dorm for next year is NOT something you or her should be worrying about right now. The other reasons you listed? Well, you're preaching to the choir on that one, but there are other organizations that offer the same benefits as a sorority.

I know you've had your goodbye "I won't be posting on here again" manifesto, and I'm truly sorry for your daughter that it didn't work out, but I encourage you to take a couple days, chill out and get this in perspective, and update us on what your daughter decides to do (COB, joining activities, whatever). It's up to you.


ETA: Anyway, I'm really sick of this hijack, and I really want to hear how AuburnMom's daughter is doing!!! I hope everything is going well!