As a former aspirant who became a member of Sigma Gamma Rho by gleaning information from these boards, I recommend not only using discretion but also take time to read and absorb FIRST before you blab, blab, blab. When I joined GC a few years ago, I never made a "I wanna be an SGRho post as my introductory thread". Hell, SisterGreek Crimson Tide (of DST) even remarked that I keep my interest real quiet when she congratulated me on becoming a member. That is because (1) I read the stickies so based on that I knew most membership inquiries were frowned upon and (2) I could actually learn alot about how members interacted with sorors, fellow Greeks and non-affliated folks without screaming "Hey pick me, pick me!!!".

I think the frustration alot of BGLO members on GC feel is when an aspirant not only doesn't read the stickie threads which guide them to membership information via IHQ websites but there is this general disregard for learning how to properly become apart of an online community. Though online, it's still a community and there is a general vibe and it takes time to learn personalities, what's appropriate and to learn which member might be open to answering membership questions via PM. You wouldn't walk up to a group of Greeks on the yard and say "I'm gonna be your frat or soror soon!!!" so why do you think that's remotely okay online? I know online communication has retarded some of our abilities at social interactions but the least you can do is read the STICKIES and sit back and feel things out before you put your foot in your mouth.

PhDiva

Thank you for your wisdom and discretion but a central fact that needs to be considered in this forum GC is this: it is NOT the "real world." Nor should it be. People come here evidently b/c they feel they can voice their opinions and interact with and ask questions of those people in organizations they don't have access to or may not feel comfortable in doing so in the "real world." That's the point--and the genius of GC. The fact that we have these tete-a-tetes should be seen as the fulfillment of the goal of a real type of community, where you have a real diversity of people according to Greek affiliation, ethnic/racial group, Greek councils, geographic location,vocation, age, life and Greek experience, political affiliation, sexual orientation and religious commitment. Basically,you don't find this type of interaction in the real world! It's refreshing and gives me hope! If it's messy and frustrating at times, then so be it. This is a healthy alternative to Greeks and non-Greeks being reinforced with all kinds of prejudiced and preconceived notions about other Greeks, and harboring ways of thinking that don't consider other's opinions and how other organzations operate,etc. b/c they are only interacting with like-minded people whom they feel comfortable with or have a particular Greek council affiliation with.

Until we can get ourselves together off line and accomplish this in the "real world," we should not try to enforce a type of uniformity of engagement on GC. Our experiences are different! If I would err, I would err on the side of generosity.

^^We are not trying to enforce a uniformity. From reading this thread, it sounds as though NPHC fraternities have a different edict concerning discussions of membership via the internet. If that is the case, run with it. But as Soror AKA_Monet and ladygreek have pointed out, that is not the case with NPHC sororities. We have particular protocols to follow too, and they will be followed in our specific forums and by our members, whether that makes us seem insular, secretive, or whatever.

Also, I think that PhDiva's point stands. If aspirants come here, read the POW (or comparable TOS for each forum), it immediately becomes clear what kinds of questions will or will not be entertained in those forums. Regardless of whether this is the "real world" or not, it is just plain frustrating when we say again and again that we will not answer membership questions and aspirants again and again post them. Those same aspirants learn valuable lessons about how to display their interest in the real world by the responses they receive here. At the same time, as PhDiva pointed out, that does not preclude aspirants from seeking advice privately, and it is to each members discretion as to how they handle those private messages.

Non. It's more about the "how" and not so much the "what," thus the note of the defensiveness issue in the original post. In this forum there is the dialectic of post, response, surresponse...til people get satisfactory understanding, direction, drop the matter or action has to be taken by a moderator.This is the "self-correcting" factor in this forum, besides the basic rules. And intake questions were only a part of the issue raised in the initial post of this thread.In my reading, it was the global sense of the insularity and secrecy that was addressed, and which does resonate with me. There is plenty of bombast and immaturity expressed in the tone of some of the NPHC posts on GC.The way "stuff" is handled in some quarters today is that one of the dialogue partners would discover grass stains on their clothes after they've been body slammed on the ground. Then the happy dialogue continues.That's the real world in Greekdom, unfortunately!

OK, but I was referring particularly to membership questions, though PhDiva's response was broader than just membership issues (and her points about integrating into an online community are important); and in my reading the OP was very heavily slanted towards the membership aspects of our organizations.

Also, I think that there are a couple of different conversations being collapsed here, i.e. what happens in the "real world" with regards to membership pursuit and what happens on a message board with regards to membership pursuit; and in my experience, those are two very different things. This is, ultimately, a messageboard, not some kind of Greek utopia; though, those who are so inclined can try to make it such if they choose. People can respond or not, be kind or not, as they choose (when and where TOSs have not been established). All of the moderators of the forums that I frequent (and I have been a member since 2000) have learned lessons over the years that now direct the ways that those matters are broached (along with organization particular protocols); and as with most things, each new instance presents an opportunity to hone policy to insure the best outcome.

I do understand the need for a degree of transparency within organizations and within the NPHC--I am still learning more about how that looks and works; and I think that being in adherence with university and college policy is also necessary for those branches of our organization (and all of our organizations are comprised of more than college chapters). However, with regards to the who, what, when, where, why, and how of membership pursuit with NPHC, I am not an advocate of transparency or disclosure just so that others might feel more comfortable and reassured about our organizations. Others levels of comfort with the workings of Alpha Kappa Alpha are of no concern to me. So, we may just have to agree to disagree on that.

Everyone is secretive (to varying degrees) and everyone stays w/in their own communities usually, hence the lack of interaction.

People just feel more comfortable around those they perceive they have more in common with...it's human nature and Greek Life is not exempt from that.

The real question is, do we want to be "better" than the average Joe/Jane and try and reach out and make things better? To me, Greek Life is about commiting oneself to the ideals of your organization (you agree to follow them by becoming a member remember), and part of that committment means seeing the big picture and stepping out of one's comfort zone to interact with people that on the surface might not seem similar to you.

Black, White, Latino/a, Asian, South Asian, Multicultural Greeks...most stay within their own realms of friends.

The interesting this is with the advent of MGC's on campuses and the increased interaction between NPHC orgs and other minority Greek orgs, I feel that is going to create a lot more cultural understanding between those organizations than happens w/ NPC, NIC. In fact, I already see Latino/a, Asian, and Multicultural orgs adopting NPHC characteristics and following in their footsteps.

What does the future hold? This is going to be very contentious, but I think it means that with the changing populations of the US (re: Black, Latino, Asian populations all increasing while White population is decreasing), White Greeks are either going to have to move away from the party hard image and sorority girl image that can be true on many campuses(NOTE: I am not saying everyone is like this b/c on my campus NPC/NIC orgs are generally more involved in the community than on state school campuses - this comes from my Greek Advisor btw) or face declining numbers and the very real possibility of becoming obsolete.

NPHC orgs are having a MAJOR impact on the shaping of Greek Life. As Latino/a and Asian and Multicultural orgs grow in numbers of chapters and members, campus dynamics are going to change dramatically, and NPC/NIC orgs will face some serious challenges to being the Greek Life choice on campus.

Just my .94 cents

One difference is that those interested in our organizations don't approach members with an "exploring my options" mindset. Interested members are encouraged and will find out about their organization of choice BEFORE ever approaching the respective org.

Also, when I was in school, I always had a problem with attempts at "Greek Unity" because that just meant that non-NPHC groups wanted us to step. No groups ever approached us about a service project or a campus event. Shoot, no one ever invited us to their parties either. But they would ask us to step for them or teach them how to step. It was a slap in the face because we're sooooo much more than stepping (although my chapter was known to bring the boot down everywhere we went. ;) )


Isn't this the truth!!! My UG has a "Campus Activities" office where all of the registered organizations have mailboxes and will have a kiosk or an office Offices were awarded, after an application process, to organizations that, basically, did the most on campus. When I graduated, 6 of the 8 NPHC orgs had offices. What does that tell you? ;)

You find that within our organizations too--our organizations are a microcosm of the university so within one line you have people of different majors, ages, races and from different places. What is great is that all of these individuals have the same desire--to join a sister/brotherhood that works and is visible in our community. And let's be clear: that's not limited to Blacks. I have a Persian linesister.

I'm sure you're just being light-hearted here (at least I hope you are) but it illustrates the point I made earlier in this post.


No, it doesn't mean that a new member is stupid and isn't said to suggest so. For the same reason that parents don't allow their 1 year old to make all of the decisions in a family is the reason why new members are encouraged to gain some experience and insight into the sister/brotherhood before making a bunch of decisions and whatnot. When you have organizations with almost 100 years (and 100+ years in the case of Senusret), there is a lot to learn.

* I like working with examples and metaphors. Please do enjoy!*

When you're out and about being your fantASTic way, and someone, based on their own ignorance of you, thinks negatively of you, would you bend to become the person they want you to be? And why should the information be any more available than it already is? Rumors and hearsay? We've been around for a long time and have withstood many a rumor. If we operated by what others say and think, we wouldn't have made it past 1906.

As it has been said many, many times on GC, our organizations are lifelong commitments. It's family. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't bring just anybody into my family because they looked at me and found me interesting. They would need to get to know me, we would have to spend time together, I would have to learn to trust them...see where I'm going? I'll end the metaphor there.:o

http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/happy0159.gif

@Little32-- Good stuff, sistergreek.

Little32, you sure are one smart neo! :D ;)

Wow! While reading this article and the comments, I http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/mad0090.gif http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/mad0163.gifhttp://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/rolleye0014.gifhttp://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/sign0065.gifhttp://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/sign0004.gifhttp://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/sad0006.gif

I was being light hearted here.

But I was also referening to the great...umm...student held...events....that may not be held on campus... *ah-em*

I like your analogy. It's nice, and it does exemplify what I mean as well as what you do. No, I wouldn't become what they think I am. Instead, I would want to show them that I'm NOT like that. If we had a bad rep with another Greek org, I wouldn't want to just say, "Oh, who cares, they don't know us so they can just think bad about us." I would want to change their perceptions of us.

That whole post was really good, by the way. I enjoyed it :)

To add: there is an EXACT TIME and PLACE to ask such things regarding these... There is a reason for it. We are NOT EVER going to discuss these issues on GC especially on the AKA Ave. and elsewhere... Every post make by individuals about membership on GC will be reported. Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. has legal obligations.


Well, I know how you might like it... But I wouldn't hold my breath and I would not count my chickens before the eggs hatch... NOT EVERY say African American woman will join one of D4 sorority or any historically based BGLO for that matter. Some like I friends Jill and Sistergreek will join a NPC Sorority. I think many in the NIC are changing some of their recruitment strategies and as it turns out as the nature they are, the marketting strategy will supercede that of the NPHC and maybe MCGLO's.

The responses we get from interests on PWI's is not the kind of thing that is respectable. And kids these days do NOT care about historical ramifications--even IF we influence them in high school...

I say all this because what I have experienced as a Graduate Advisor and faculty on 2 large universities.

See... This is what I am talking about!!!
 

I am sorry!!! This is the kind of crap we deal with on the AKA Ave. constantly even though we posted our rules announcements and stickies:

Some members of NPC are very helpful with us. But this is against Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. standards. No members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. will EVER answer these questions because it risks our expulsion as members.

Deletion of a thread is easier.

Besides ALL the information is in http://www.aka1908.com.

Those are OUR rules to be members of my Sorority. End of discussion.

AKA_Monet, you're definitely right that not every Black person (or Latino/a, Asian, etc) will join an organization focusing on their community.

And a question (b/c I haven't really heard of this) how are NIC orgs changing their recruitment strategies? I haven't ever seen them at any cultural organizations participating (like our NAACP's Soul Review for example) so I'm just wondering.

And yes, the PWI thing is interesting. Definitely a very different culture than an HBCU. I've noticed a lot of girls on my campus who want to join a D4 sorority but approach it in totally the wrong way...most times they don't succeed in obtaining membership.

But I definitely think the culture of a PWI (and NPC/NIC Greek Life) influences how a person might attempt to join an NPHC organization b/c they think that Greeks might all have the same recruitment process.

Pz
Nate

Ya see, this is what I'm talking about. What makes this girl think that the interest meeting will be in some "secret" off campus location? This just proves my theory that it's non-greeks (for the most part) and their lack of education regarding the NPHC, that lends to rumors and untruths. We're NOT secret societies but you'd think we were the way people talk. If this girl just went to the AKA website or the website of any NPHC org (and it's not like we don't have several websites out there with the membership procedures plain for everyone to see), she would find out what the procedures are and what she needs to do to pursue membership. People need to stop being lazy and take a little initiative to educate themselves about something that they plan on joining for LIFE.

Yup. It took me about 3 minutes on your website to find out how I'd attempt to join AKA were I interested and eligible. AKA_Monet, it sounds like the poster you're quoting didn't even have the courage to ask her acquaintances within the sorority when and where their interest meeting would be held. And that isn't something that anyone online could help her with.

Honestly, you'd think people's brains were powered by little gerbils in wheels.

Come on sistergreeks,
Let's be honest here. You know we all have secret rushes, in a location far from campus only to be known by certain folx. And at these rushes we do these secret ceremonies dressed in all black with a single spotlight on the attendees. As while I can't tell details, suffice it to say they involve the elements of the universe--Earth, Wind and Fire. :cool:

Dang LG....you let the cat out of the bag.



The bolded part made me want to burst out in song:)
Stairway to heaven....OK I'm going to pull out a CD now!

Well, just look in the opposite direction with Pi Kappa Alpha on Howard University's campus... And when these young men became members of this particular fraternity, the national office was ecstatic! Now, we find out some of them jumped ship and decided to join a D9 fraternity...

But it was VERY EASY for the Pikes to recruit these young men and entice them to join. It wasn't a difficult choice full of turmoil to join this fraternity. And I am sure there was something they offered to them to go all the way... I don't how they could have became a D9 Fraternity member... But what do I know :confused:

All I am saying is the IFC can put a little effort into it IF THEY WANTED TO and there were be major recruitment of ALL ethnic groups into their organizations at the collegiate level...

However, from a kids point of view, oh, they are are quick to learn... Hayle, they got accepted into these schools and nowadays, they don't accept dummies... ;) :rolleyes:

Those men were an interest group that sought Pike, not the other way around.

Regarding "how" some of them became Kappas.... I am assuming that the Pike colonization process (like the APO extension process) culminates with initiation and chartering. Theoretically, they were free to leave the group and pledge any other organization as they were not initiates yet. (Again, speculation.)

And it is these wannabe perp non-greeks that ain't ever attended anybody's informational or rush that promote this junk!!! That's what get's me...

Why oh why did "THEY" make it "open"... :rolleyes:

Let's just say that the elevator does not go to the top of her stairs... Or not all her oars are in the water... :)

Watch, she'll roll in here cursing us out because I put her on blast...

Hehehe.... ;) Cemeteries can become your best friend at midnight... Oh, wait, that's hazing now...

We are going to honor our ancestors with a revival at Mt. Hope Mortuary...

Why did they choose the Men of Pike? Nothing is wrong with with their choice. My issue is when the National Offices were informed of this interest group you had better believe a huge RED carpet was rolled out for them... Basically, allowing them to skate...

It is my understanding that when these boys became members, the real Greek Life Commitment was very different than what they fantasized as to how it ought to be.

Albeit, I admit it was a poor example, however, I still contend that if the IFC/NPC put some effort in their diversity marketing, they could garner the kinds of members they seek.

What will happen to us and the MCGLO's? Personally, in my opinion, we offer something completely different.

I doubt Pike violated it's colonization procedure because there was an interest group at a HBCU. There's not really "skating" in NIC fraternities, not in the same way as NPHC.

In my experience, on campuses that do not have MCGLOs and/or a strong NPHC presence, the fraternities are about as diverse as the school is. The sororities are as well. This is in the Midwest and YMMV elsewhere. Point being, I think they're getting the members they seek.

I thought that NPHC organizations didn't accept people who held membership in NPC/NIC organizations? Or does that only hold true for the sororities and not the fraternities?

As I said in my post, it is not known whether the members of the Pike colony were initiated members. If they were not initiates, that would generally not preclude them from becoming members of another fraternity.

However, I do not know if that was the case.

But no, NPHC fraternities do not allow it either.

Well, it doesn't seem like many people read it or got the irony of the final paragraph.

So just in case you didn't see it, he ended his anti-NPHC/MGC rant with "Martin Luther King Jr. dreamed of the day when all races could sit together at a table of brotherhood. We have that opportunity today. Let's take it."

Basically he quoted a famous Alpha to support his article promoting the elimination of cultural and ethnic Greeks.

I'm sorry but you'll have to speak for your own organization on this one. Sigma Gamma Rho does not hold their rushes in secret locations only known to certain folx. Our informal rushes or interest meetings are open to the public and anyone can attend. The undergrads post fliers and posters all around campus for people to see and encourage people (women) to come and learn more about SGRho in an informal setting. However, the formal rush and interview thereafter are by invitation only.

http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0002.gif It was a joke.

I pay articles like this one absolutely no mind. The idea of cultural/ethnic GLO's being against diversity is absurd, especially when we all know that the lack of diversity was initially caused by predominately White GLO's. What cracks me up is that some members of predominately White GLO's refuse to see their own organizations as contributing to the lack of diversity even today. So when these organizations decided to not be racist anymore, were BGLO's supposed to abandon their focus on their communities and go running to unify with predominately White GLO's? Yeah right. The bottom line is, the same way that cultural GLO's support each other while still serving their own communities is the same way that predominately White GLO's can support and find unity with ethnic GLO's. We don't have to be the SAME to support one another and this is the point that the guy who wrote the article is missing.

OOOOOOOOOhhhhhh...sorry...I didn't get it:D

Damn is your sequined catsuit on too tight or something? Go drink some more sacrificial goat's blood!

I HOLLARED @ sequined catsuit...

No matter how long I am absent from GC, this always comes up. Fall must be coming...

Dang it LG, there goes our secretiveness.;)

Damn, and I thought D9 orgs sacrificed dogs and cats...I guess I was wrong. :D:D

It's ok. NPC sororities are fond of goats, I hear. :p

See dogs and cats are too small scale for us. We like TI "Big thangs poppin and lil' thangs stoppin'"!!!!

ahahaha...btw that TI song is editted a LOT...I have the original and it's much more...profane

Oh....I know when I heard the unedited version I was a little shocked, but I don't know why....I should have expected it.