With the pnm, you are dealing with an individual. With the chapter, you have a group. I think it's easier to give a pass to an individual because it would be her personal choice. Also, you would not be disrespecting the alumna in the same way you would be if the chapter didn't respect the legacy status. Is that clear as mud?
If my daughter were to pledge another GLO, I'd be helping them out during my daughter's years there, even if there were a Gamma Phi chapter.

YAY for blue irises!

That is a happy note in the story!

Actually, most of us agree that if you wouldn't accept a bid anywhere else, you should go ahead and suicide.:):)

I'm glad your daughter had a great sorority experience.

Her story has a happy ending! But... there is no proof from this account that she was cut from her legacy due to her geographic location, or that the fact that she was a legacy was kept from the chapter members and their advisers. Finding a packet of recommendations in the kitchen could be anything-- copies, etc. Even without national consultants visiting a chapter, there are still advisers and behind-the-scenes work being done to process all paperwork that comes in. Tensions run high at recruitment on all sides.

Chapters receive consultant visits throughout the year-- it may have been requested that this consultant observe recruitment, but it may or may not have had anything to do with them not following the legacy policy for the sorority or purposely mishandling paperwork.

I can understand your family being hurt over your daughter being cut, with or without your wife's strong sorority involvement. You raised a great kid, though, who went on to have an amazing experience with Kappa, and I'm glad she found a sorority that was a good fit for her.

And yes, "fit" is a word we throw around, but at the end of the day-- if you compared about 100 applications of your average PNM-- they all look the same. Great grades, accomplishments, recommendations-- determining if the PNM fits well with the chapter's local culture is often the only tie-breaker. It's not the most measurable quality, but just as in a job, you don't necessarily need the best man for the job, you need the man (or woman) who is reasonably well-qualified and is going to mesh well with the exisiting members of the team.

ETA: All this legacy talk has reinforced within in me that if I ever have a daughter considering sorority recruitment where this a chapter of ADPi, even my own alma mater, I will be sure to lay out to her that I'd be delighted if she and ADPi find a connection with one another, but I want her go into recruitment with the same open mind I was allowed to have. And to make the decisions that benefit her.

The saddest thing to me would be a legacy who felt that she let her mom or sister down by being cut from the group.

It really is important not to put that pressure on the PNMs since so little of it is in their control.

And as PGD's post pointed out-- it doesn't matter who wrote your recommendation or how high up your legacy member is-- nothing is a guarantee. But also as his post pointed out-- the best place for you is maybe not the place you originally imagined it to be... and look at how great his daughter's experience turned out! She may not have ever had the chance to find out where she belonged if her "legacy" was an auto-lock.

Me too. The ladybug PJs, toothbrush, shoes, hairbows, dresses and toys that my daughter have are all just coincidence.;)

No, I really will hope she joins where she's happy. Since we're here in NC, unless she decides to go far from home, or ASA suddenly has a sudden urge to move south, she probably won't have an ASA chapter at her university, anyway.

Heyyy, you never know, kiddies frequently decide to head far away from home for college -be careful what you wish for!:p

Yeah, wait to put pressure on them after they get invited to your pref party! ;)

Exactly!;)

1) If a legacy doesn't make grades, do you still invite her back for round 2? It seems like two policies from HQ conflict in that situation. We never had the issue come up, but I am sure other chapters have.

2) If you got a leg intro form from a mother, and her daughter did not put her affiliation on her rush registration form, what would you think of that? Several posters said they would advise their daughter not to put it on there, but I would start to wonder why the woman didn't want to be in our chapter.

1) Unless there is some limit to how many PNMs may be invited back to Round 2, IMO there would be no harm in asking a legacy back, even though she didn't have the grades.

2) I wouldn't wonder that. I would think that she didn't want her legacy status to adversely affect her chances of having a fair recruitment by putting it on the common recruitment registration form that goes to all chapters. By letting her mom send the legacy form, she was happy to let her mom's chapter know of the connection but didn't want all the groups to know.

A girl I went through rush with was in the first situation. Her sister told her in advance that she would be invited to second round but then cut. (She was an in-house legacy, but she was below the national minimum.) That's what happened.

In the second situation, I would assume that the girl was interested in the chapter because her mom sent the notice, but that she didn't want other chapters to see her legacy status in case she got cut by your chapter. I would assume she was a savvy PNM who was being careful.

I just don't think that the average reference chair would make the same assumption. I think that it may seem as though mom was pushing the PNM, even though the PNM wasn't really interested.

How could the PM correct that? Could she include a personal note to the chapter explaining how happy she is to meet the group that's been such a big part of her mom's life?

(I know that sounds cheesy, but if the stories about legacies to other chapters being released with the assumption that they will pledge the legacy chapter are true, it's a huge gamble to list it on a form other chapters will see.)

I don't think we need to re-evaluate legacy considerations at all. Most groups offer a courtesy to their sisters to give their family members extra consideration during recruitment. We all know that doesn't mean a free pass. I sure want to know that my niece will be given a second chance should she decide to rush in the future. AOII means something special to her mother, and her mother means something special to AOII and many of her members. I see nothing wrong with politely taking a special look at these women. If they don't fit in, or don't want your chapter, you are under no obligation to bid.

AOIIAngel, I totally agree with you.

The only thing we need to improve is educating the collegiate chapters and the alumnae as to the policy, the benefits of pledging legacies and the reality that the members of the current active chapter are the only ones who have a vote.

Legacies are like gravy -- a little something extra.

A past National President of Chi Omega wrote a wonderful article years ago entitled: Legacies: Diamonds in our own backyard.

Some of the posters in this thread are from NPC groups which are not even represented at the schools where a large number of legacies can present a problem for some groups. If I were you -- I'd focus on another topic. It doesn't directly affect you.

I graduated from a large west coast univ and was a rush advisor at another large west coast school where the chapters are between 40-60 years old. While the number of legacies in recruitment does not equal or exceed quota it could in the future I suppose. The fact of the matter is that legacies were held to a different standard than the average PNM. In the long run, I can't say the legacies we pledged were better or worse members than anyone else...the only time they were identified as "legacies" really was during their own recruitment. It bugs me to think that a legacy is scrutinized more carefully or has her options limited because of her relatives' affiliations. I want every PNM to be treated equally and to have the same opportunity to choose and be chosen by the sisterhood that is right for her...so she can enjoy her own experience.

Gamma Phi does not have a special legacy badge but I really like that idea...especially if there was a special recognition pin the new initiate could present to her mom/sister/grandma when she is initiated.

This had some great discussion!

I recently wrote a recommendation for a PNM who is a ZTA and Tri-Delt legacy. Prior to completing her recommendation I asked her how she felt about her legacy chapters. She told me (paraphrasing) that she didn't have her heart set on her legacy chapters, that she wanted to find a home and it may or may not be with her legacy chapter. I took what she told me and put it into the "comments" section of the form. I wanted the chapter to know that they should look at her for her and not just immediately toss her to the side because she is a legacy to other chapters.

Even though this thread started 7 years ago, I think recruitment is still tough for legacies AT SOME SCHOOLS.

Well, there IS a Mother's pin! :)

Beetlejuice! :)

And I agree carnation, there was great discussion here. I'm glad I started it !!

Another poster clarified that the mom may have attended a college that did not have a chapter of the grandmothers sorority, so the sorority in question could still be very important and special to that family.

In addition, the legacy line could have been broken because grandmother only had sons. My mother-in-law has been a very active member of her GLO for decades and I can honestly say that if my daughter (her only granddaughter in a sea of grandsons) were to go that route that it would still be a very special bond.

I agree the problem will just continue to worsen. While we have focuses much on the mother-daughter relationships, I think the bio sister relationships are just as large a factor for the spike in legacies. Think how Greek life has exploded in just the last 10 years, and how many of those members have younger sisters.

The only solution that I can think of is just to continue to educate current members and PNMs not to go into recruitment expecting a bid to legacy group. I don't think we can continue to narrow our definition of legacy until nothing is left but mom-sister of that particular chapter. But maybe that is where we are going. Who knows?

Great thread. Glad it got bumped.

Ooh. Glad that one local family didn't see this. Mom was a Chi O and oldest daughter was too, at a university that didn't have a hugely competitive rush. They proclaimed that they couldn't wait to see second daughter join them but then...second daughter rushed at an SEC school. Oooo. We saw that one coming and sure enough, she was cut after second parties and mom and sister went ballistic.

Second daughter pledged another group and was pretty happy but I think that the 3 of them would go ballistic if they saw the starred phrase because some PNMs don't get to choose what they want.