*Stands up and claps*

Frat you are on point completely. I have always tried my hardest to take the lead in my relationships. But often I find women, especially our own, SIMPLY WON'T FOLLOW. Despite my greatest efforts. I was raised in a home where my father had been the leader but became ill, so my mother and all of us had to step up. I realized how big the role of a husband was. Prior to him being sick I can't remember wanting for anything growing up. But after he became disabled we only had dinner 5/7 days a week. No matter how hard me, mom's, and big sis worked, we couldn't do what he did. I noticed we argued about everything too because for the first time we had to make decisions he used to make.

I say this just to stress the point of what you made clear. MEN ARE MADE TO LEAD. Women and children are made to follow. My father was never a dictator. He never forced us to do anything, honestly we just trusted him and most of the time he was right. I want to be like my father, but there seems to be very few women like my mother and almost no other men like my father for me to use as a support system.:confused:

Let me just say that it's how a man leads. It takes patience first and in my situation, a lot of small compromises. I thought being led was losing who I was as a strong woman. I soon realized that it's a stronger woman who allows her man to be the man. Don't just say "Me man, you woman" and beat your chest like Tarzan. Explain to her why and SHOW her that you are worthy to lead her and the family. Your decisions should be in the best interest of the family. Sometimes it's the women some of you men seek out to try to make into a wife or a woman of substance. Women aren't without fault either. Sometimes we're afraid that you'll take our meekness or softsides as a sign of weakness, so we build concrete walls to protect ourselves. Once the conversations become more about building together and less about tearing eachother down, our community will once again be something to be admired and not talked about in negative ways.

i am working on this as well...its hard to surrender that control when you have acted as male and female in your household. i think its also been a form of insurance for me, knowing that if this doesnt work out, i can do it myself. it ends up coming across wrong to him, not that i want to run things myself, but that i dont want HIM to have control.

I think what we forget is that both men and women lose some forms of control when they unite as one. When I was married I didn't choose what I ate, what the house looked like, often what I wore, and what we did in free time. I trusted her with those decisions.

OT, I know how you feel, but that ain't gonna work. "Baby it's not that I don't want you to lead, I just don't want you to have control." :confused::eek:. In order for him to lead, you gotta take your hand off the steering wheel. BUT!!! You're still in the passenger seat and you can help him navigate. And when y'all get lost...chew him out!:D

very true marquise...

and another thing: it is a man/head of households responsibility to teach/train the woman how to be head of household. not so that she steps on toes, but in case she needs to step up to that role!

OT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is wsup!!!!

I always stress that women know how to do things by themselves b4 the get married. My sister is a strong women, but she is helpless when it comes to practical things like changing a flat or lifting a heavy box. She was crippled by the fact she had 5 brothers at her beck and call her whole life. Women should watch and learn because one day he's gonna say, "Baby could you take care of this for me"

i am a firm believer in that since i now have older women relatives who are now widowed, and know nothing about how to take care of a household. my father has insured that my mother knows EVERYTHING about the bills, payments, insurance, etc. she stayed at home with us until i was 13, and i feel he absolutely owed it to her to show her what to do in case he couldnt be around. cooking and cleaning do not run a household!

Nupe that's a good story. That simply has made you a stronger man though.

Man, you hit it on the nose. Women do not like to be led, especially our own:rolleyes::mad:. My X was a trip. She did her own thing, and I did mine, because I damn sure was not going to follow her. Wasn't raised to follow a woman. My father always told me there's nothing wrong with listening to your wife/woman, you just have to know when to listen to her. A man that lets his wife/woman lead, will lead that joker right into the gutter, and then blame it on him and the killer thing about it is she would be right. It would be his own fault. Why? Because God DID NOT give the woman the dominion, nor did he give her direction. That was Adams responsibility. Period. Also you can't lead a woman who refuses to be led. I know why women have a hard time submitting, but that goes back to Genesis. I'll explain later.

Let the chuch say, "AMEN!"

*Takes shoe off and throws it at Pastor PB!*
*High 5's Kappativating*

You better preach nikka!!!!

:rolleyes: i have no problem with the "wife submissive to her husband" rule. ooh, see that? it said WIFE! that, my friend, is where the line is. i am generally submissive as a fiancee, but not to the level i will be after we say "i do"...

my problem with the "our women" slant a few of you mentioned, is that i hear it too often. it is the answer a lot of times to the "why are you dating outside your race?" question. i dont mind interracial dating at all, mind you, but think its unfair to black women when we are stereotyped in that way. after all the oppression we, as a people, went thru together, you would think you would want a strong black woman. there are so many of "our women" who are without men and raising children for various reasons. you should support that strength in us!

we, in turn, AS WOMEN need to learn that skill of letting you all do your thing. not specifically as black women. oh, and uh, dont tell me every man is MAN ENOUGH to lead a household...hmm?

Roles according to who? The religious right? If this works for you and your wife cool..


See, this is where I have a problem. I don’t let a book run my life. Say what you want but I know exactly why I'm single and this is the root. I'm too much of an individualist esp. when it comes to religion. I got into it yesterday on my date about this very topic. Men and women can lead each other equally but because of society rules (Christian), women feel like they have to be subservient, on all levels. Sorry, I can’t do that.

As far as Im concerned, we MUST walk side by side.

you know what, i think the problem is exactly how the family should be led by the man. my father is head of the household. did he make all the decisions by himself? no. my mother has input on every major decision. if he disagrees, nothing is done until they resolve it. that sounds 50/50, and looks that way from the outside. but we all know deep down that daddy wears the pants. its nothing that we see or hear. we just know it. the one thing we do have proof of, is him including her in decisions. i dont think hes ever made one without her, and thats the way it should be. hes more like, the speaker of the house lol

That worked for them however my parents did everything equally so in essence they were both head of the household. They were married for 62 years and seperated by his death. My issue is that men expect women to be strong yet subservient and LET them be in charge. Why cant both be in charge? I can not and will not let someone, esp. a man tell me how, what, when, why, where... and expect me to just go along. That's me. I will hurt a mans EGO (because that's what it really about) in a second and not think twice if he tries to "put me in my place". I've done it before and have NO problems doing it agin.;) My life is by MY terms and no one elses.

MARRIED TO THE DAY I DIE AND BEHOND BRO
 

AND IF I HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN I WOULD BE RIGHT HERE W? YOU

So why couldnt you walk by her side WITH her? Would it have killed you?

i think my mom is just the type of person who was happy in that situation. now me?? or either of my two sisters?? hell naw. it is an equal walk. i dont do anything major without him, and vice versa.

someone, i think Prettyboy, said that women arent designed to "take on the load"...what the hell? not only are we designed to do it, there are just as many of us actually doing it as there are men! like i said earlier, and i will say it again...women need to know how to run a household. if she is willing to sit back and let her man make the decisions, she may be in for a world of disappointment.

"honey, pack the house up, we're moving to Canada because i said so!" it seems funny, but i have a girlfriend who has 5 children, living 250 miles away from home while her husband aka head of household, is off working at a job he could have easily gotten here where we live. she is alone, no car, no job, no spending money, no cable, no neighbors...see where i'm going with this? she was "submissive" because thats what her mother told her she should be. she loves her family but she's miserable...what about her needs? being head of household should first and foremost incorporate the other persons wants and needs and feelings.

too many men feel that "submissive" equals "i do what i want, when i want and you cant do anything about it".

And then get all offended when you call them on it. Hypocritical and a blown up ego.:rolleyes:

if shes not behind you, but you are in the lead...please explain!:confused:

oh and uhh, do you explain that exactly how you put it when you enter relationships? even my most religious, old fashioned girlfriends would be a bit surprised. it comes off a bit...pushy?

You're right, there are some sorry jokers out there who don't/won't work, cheat, run the streets, hang out at clubs w/o their woman beside them, hang out at bars to get drunk and pick up hoish women. Yeah, that's a poor excuse for a man, and I wouldn't give a squirt of piss for a joker like that. And hell no, they won't lead. Men like that are content with the woman leading. In fact these men look for a sugar mama. They literally want to be taken care of. Lazy jokers.:mad:

As far as black women are concerned, according to Ebony, 70% of them are single. What I have a problem with is when black women get mad when they see a black man with a white woman. Hell, that's their business. I don't know what's up with that.

No, I don’t agree with it but I wasn’t trying to argue with you either. I though it was decent dialogue. You put it out there and I was responding to your opinion. Just looking for some insight.

And for the record, I never said anything about her being behind, I simply asked why you couldn't walk together. :cool:

Dont get it twisted. I said equal

Merriam-Webster English dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: 1equal
Pronunciation: 'E-kw&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin aequalis, from aequus level, equal
1 a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : EQUIVALENT b : like in quality, nature, or status c : like for each member of a group, class, or society <provide equal employment opportunities>
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : IMPARTIAL
3 : free from extremes: as a : tranquil in mind or mood b : not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion
4 a : capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task b : SUITABLE <bored with work not equal to his abilities>
synonym see SAME



Merriam-Webster English dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm

submit

Main Entry: sub·mit
Pronunciation: s&b-'mit
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sub·mit·ted; sub·mit·ting
Etymology: Middle English submitten, from Latin submittere to lower, submit, from sub- + mittere to send
transitive verb
1 a : to yield to governance or authority b : to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation <the metal was submitted to analysis>
2 : to present or propose to another for review, consideration, or decision <submit a question to the court> <submit a bid on a contract> <submit a report>; also : to deliver formally <submitted my resignation>
3 : to put forward as an opinion or contention <we submit that the charge is not proved>
intransitive verb
1 a : to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something <had to submit to surgery>
2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another
synonym see YIELD - sub·mit·tal /-'mi-t&l/ noun

Interesting, my parents were 50/50 so it is possible. :) 60+ years of possible.
Not trying to "affect” your thoughts, just trying to understand what would make a person give up essentially, control of their life to someone else, willingly.

I'm in agreement with you PrettyBoy. And that's not just from a religious perspective but from personal experience. I witnessed my mother being led and totally submissive and it turned me off growing up where I swore I would never be like that. So as determined as I was to "have my own" and "handle it all" I ended pretty darn independent. At 43 years of age, I HATE IT!!

I am thoroughly convinced that God did not design it for women to do it all. I CAN change a flat, paint a room, trouble-shoot my car for problems, break down tree limbs in my yard after a storm, etc. but the thing is I would RATHER NOT! I'm too pretty and delicate because God created me to be a female. (besides I don't want to break a nail ;))

Now before you sistas get on me, my stance on this is from personal experience and the lack of males in my life. I think someone mentioned it a page back that a woman can handle all of this and indeed we can, because I did and am still doing it. After the death of my father/brothers/and husband I have had to be the head of my family. Only with God am I able to do it and keep my sanity. I am not just running a household I maintain a house. This is not something I want to do as a female any more.

I am really trying to maintain relationships/friendships with men who step up and are willing to be the men that they were made by our creator to be. So I said all this to say, for the first time in my life I want to be led.

ETA:
I should clarify that I see control issues with a person who need to run everything. They feel like they need to be validated by being the one in control. Man or woman

Soror, would it be the same thing if your children were adult, and they offered to take care of you?

Interesting that you think this(bolded text).
I'm SUPER picky also and what I find is that men that I have dissmissed (because essentially that's what I did) couldnt step up to the plate. I found that their egos were so fragile, and they were so worried about what their friends would say about their "manhood" and not focus on the actual relationship, that they never had sight of what was really important. To me, they were weak.

Different strokes for different folks.
All I know is that I was already a complete person before I met my husband. We COMPLEMENT one another and I have learned (and am still learning) how to allow him to lead the household and the decisions. This doesn't mean that we don't discuss it first, but the thing is he has the final decision whether it be right or wrong. I have learned to trust him and the fact that he would not put the family in a bad situation. We do walk together, but I still know my place in the relationship. We support one another and we do have the right to disagree and speak our peace equally. I know how to handle business if he were to every get sick or leave. I'm not weak by any means. I am enjoying being spoiled at it's nothing wrong with it. Just my opinion.

ETA:
I should clarify that I see control issues with a person who need to run everything. They feel like they need to be validated by being the one in control. Man or woman

ETA just one womans opinion. :D

Wow. Just...wow.

Soror NP, I can't really answer your question with one answer cause we are talking about two different things here. I want to be taken care of by my man simply because I have never experienced it and I am tired of taking care of everything. I created this Ms. Independent monster myself.:o

So, if my children were older and I was at the age that I am now then the answer would be a definite no.

Now, if I were a little old lady and my children offered to take care of me then the answer would be, hell yeah. I know that they would because my teen-aged sons are working and when they have money, they do offer it to me.

Lol :) understood

Accept ourselves for who we are and value our unique beauty.

Discussions like these tend to always leave someone feeling misunderstood or whatever because some important qualifiers are left unsaid. The thing about the man being the lead, etc. etc. Is true, thats biblical, but the one thing that most men forget to also say is this, "In order for me to be the head of OUR household and for you to be the proper helper, God must be the final authority. A man cannot lead except he be led....not to preach here, but thats it. Prettyboy you mentioned that in a disagreement the man has the final say so. Well if both people have entered into this union appropriately it stands to reason that they have both prayed and gotten an answer from God making him the final authority. It goes beyond the man "just being a good man", he has to be a God man for me to allow him to lead. And that only happens once I become his wife. Don't expect me to play a part you haven't offered to me.

I was wondering when that word was gonna come up.

I'll just say that men say "I want a woman who is willing submit and let me lead". Well, women can't walk around submitting to every random man, you've got to prove that you are worth her submitting to you. You've got to prove that you have both of your best interests at heart.