Thanks for sharing your story!

As to the issue of legacies - my collegiate chapter advisor had a daughter who went to the same school as she had - but went Chi Omega. I don't know the details, but I do know that Sylvia loved Gamma Phi for what it had meant for her, and she was an active Chi Omega mom because of what it meant to her daughter.
I love Gamma Phi Beta as an organization, and should a few collegiate members decide, for whatever reason, that my daughter would not be a good fit, I would still love Gamma Phi. I'd be an active mom to whatever org my daughter were to join.
I don't know what caused Gamma Phi to institute the policy they have, but it seems to me to be the one most respectful of a PNM's privacy, and it also takes a burden off of the chapter. I do think a chapter should write a note to ANYONE who writes a rec, especially a member who sends a legacy rec.

The difference, I guess, is that in real life you'd make an effort to do it kindly.

It just seemed unnecessarily harsh and kind of uncalled for, in my opinion, to post a public post to that effect, and kind of out of character for you.

Sorry for the crabbiness on my part.

I would, in fact, tell one that his or her writing had multiple errors and was difficult (or impossible) to follow. It would be insincere to read it and let them believe that it was adequate for the intended purpose. Here, the posts were meant to convey her recruitment experience. Whereas I could not follow them very well, it is not surprising that I would not disagree with someone who brought that to the poster’s attention.

I agree about the follow up notes completely, and maybe they would accomplish all that the phone call could.

I tried to emphasize in my comments that what one chapter did would only affect my feelings about that chapter. I would still hold high regard for the organization itself, I think.

I admire your conviction that you could still serve the very chapter that had cut your legacy. I really don't think I could, but maybe I AM petty in this regard.

Cutting legacies represents what seems to me to be a potentially very hurtful act (really, it only matters if the girl wants the group), and I hope that all undergraduate chapters really think it through.

I was less kind than I could have been because I was half convinced she was a troll. In real life, I would know she wasn't.

Okay, but again, I think you'd have gone about it differently, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think sometimes we forget, especially with new posters, that they are actual people who have feeling that can be hurt. We can, as I've seen people do in the past, try to put the blame on them for our rudeness by claiming that they should have researched what they were posting more. Ultimately, though, I don't think that justifies our rudeness.

I really don't think you, based on other posts I've read, really are the kind of person who would second someone else's public insult. You and Irishpipes might offer constructive criticism, but I can't really imagine that you both would stand in front of a group and tell someone that based on what you had read, her writing was so poor that she probably didn't have the minimum GPA to rush or even be in college.

It's kind of hard to imagine anyone doing it.

Yeah, I can see why trolls and sockpuppets would get different treatment, but I would have personally erred on the side of her being a real poster.

I guess that's one of the contributing elements in how new posters are treated. People don't accept the sincerity of the posts.

Are you feeling a void in GC and feel the need to fill it by being the new TOS Police?:rolleyes:

Me?

No. I don't think people should be required to be nice, but it seems to me that an effort at kindness makes things more pleasant and often makes it more likely that your concerns will be addressed.

Not always though.

I'm curious about something unrelated to this thread, and in no way is this an insult or attack. (I think it was the void on GreekChat comment that trigger the thought.) I'm on summer vacation right now so I can post whenever and even when I'm not on vacation I may read and post every evening, but it seems to me that you are on here all the time. What field are you in that you are able to do so?

Again, this isn't a "you have no life" comment. No one who checks in as frequently as I do could dare make that kind of accusation.

I'm a bookkeeper/office manager for a smaller contracting business. I flip back and forth between this and Quickbooks. ADD that I am, it's easier to keep 2-3 things going and flip between. If I try staying on one task for a long period of time I get frustrated.

A bit harsh
 

I have to agree with the posters who have commented that the above comment was too harsh. I believe that these types of posts have the potential to make new visitors to greek chat reluctant to post for fear of being ripped apart. Maybe you don't care. Personally, I would hate for that to happen as I really enjoy reading comments from the non-regular posters who might have a different or new perspective. For instance, I really enjoyed this thread as I am from Oregon and have many friends and relatives who attended Oregon State. I have rarely seen any posts related to the Oregon schools.

As an aside, it appears that the woman who started this thread ended up attending preference night at Kappa Alpha Theta. Unless things have changed a lot since I was in college, that is probably the most competitive chapter to get into at Oregon State. As such, I doubt that this woman had a GPA problem- Theta would have dropped her before preference night.

Not everyone feels that same way. I got more than a couple of phone calls (and I was simply the Alumnae Chapter President, I had nothing to do with recruitment at either of our local chapters) from women who were upset that a person they wrote a rec for (I think at least one was not even a legacy) didn't get into Gamma Phi.

And I know plenty of stories of alumnae who cut off contact.

It's not the business of the chapter to tell the family of a PNM that she was cut. What if the PNM is GLAD she was cut?

I ranked Theta 2 after preferences. Who knows what would of happened if I had ranked them 1 above Alpha Gamma Delta. They were the top chapter when I was there but I left in 2001, so it might not be anymore.

I was considering the totality of the circumstances. I do not abuse new posters. I don't assume everyone new is a troll. However, the details of the story compounded by the lack of writing skills led me to believe that it was a strong possibility that this story was not real.

And, as far as GPA is concerned, if a person writes like that and has a good GPA, the educational system has failed her completely. I know that not every field of study requires a lot of communication skills, but every college, no high school, graduate in this country should be able to communicate effectively.

I understand and agree with this generally, but most groups do have legacy policies of one kind or another which indicates that certain relatives of members receive a special level of consideration of some kind.

It's about the relationship or the organization with the member rather than the PNM, in my opinion. The organizations usually promote legacy introduction forms, don't they? They expect members to provide the chapter with information, so why wouldn't it also seem reasonable to expect that the information would flow both ways?

Again, it seems to me that notification isn't about the PNM really; it's all about the person who is already a member who has taken the time to make you aware of a legacy going through recruitment.

I can see that Gamma Phi Beta's policy would have several benefits to the chapter in the short term, and as I said, the phone call may not do any good in terms of long term relationships anyway. I think it's a perfectly justifiable policy to have, not that my opinion about it would matter anyway. I'm just trying to explain why I don't think the "it's no one else's business" is completely ironclad.

I don't understand what the "what if the member wants to get cut" question is about. Sooner or later in the process, the PNM is going to get to decide if she is interested in the group, even if it's just on the bid card. Can you explain what you mean more elaborately because I know I'm missing something here.

Exactly.

Actually, I do care and would not want new posters to be driven away. In my experience, new posters are routinely attacked for silly things like simple ignorance of the way things are done on GC. God forbid not using the search function (which never works for me anyway) or something like that... I don't paint this with the same stroke - maybe you do. And, for the record, I am never one of the posters who treats new folks like that, and my post here had nothing to do with her being new to GC.


As I posted before, how can someone who cannot convey a thought effectively NOT have a GPA problem? I am not talking about a simple spelling error here and there. The entire story was riddled with grammatical and spelling errors as well as misstatements of the events of her recruitment. Claiming to pref a competitive chapter only strengthens my case that this story did not make sense.

For those who are angry with me, just think of it as me being too stupid to decipher the posts. (And God help any of you who ever criticize Earp.)

I preffered more then 1 top chapter. What you would of liked a sentence about it. Sorry if you feel I am not as good as you are. It should not matter so much about my GPA; it should be a well rounded person even though I might of made mistakes. It makes me personally feel like I should not post because I am just going to be made fun of by people like Irishpipes. It is rude to imply that someone is dumb. Maybe I did not communicate as effecitly as you would of in written but I can do it. You just think Im dumb - I am not going to justify that I am not to you anymore. It hurts to be told that I am lying. I was afarid to post because of this and being made fun of people whom do not even know me at all. Do you guys have anything better to do then make fun of people for the way they type - by the way there are other ways to communicate and I have always been a better verbal communication then written.

I am a decent human being who has got many accomplishments and was able to compete for OSU for many years and enjoyed doing that. I was able to manage my time very effectivly and get good grades.

I agree with you completely about the value of effective communication, but I think we all know people who use a much lower standard when writing for an internet message board than they would in academic or professional writing

In most cases, I handle that by just not reading what they've posted. I don't feel an obligation to correct them or address the weaknesses of their writing. If you (not you personally, Irishpipes) aren't telling a good story that I can follow or don't care enough about spelling, grammar, and mechanics to be legible, I don't care enough to read you. If I make some exception and choose to spend my time reading you, I don't fault you for my lack of enjoyment. I did it to myself.

Especially, if the OP has a writing learning disability, I suspect she has other people proofread and correct her work IRL but that she probably wouldn't do it for GreekChat.

We could offer her constructive criticism if we feel like she wants it and would be receptive, but the chances of that go way down if we insult her first.

Again, I apologize for being crabby.

ETA: It's partially because you're not one of the usual new poster abusers that made your comment noteworthy, Irishpipes. I probably would have commented about it no matter who said it, but it somehow seemed harsher coming from you which may be unfair on my part.

You're missing more than something. She may not WANT the person to know. There are such things as PNM's who continue through rush at houses they don't really like simply because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings by dropping the group. In which case, they are relieved when they are cut.

And you are correct. Your opinion about MY sorority's policy is irrelevant. It's a policy they have had for years and it isn't likely to change. I've never even heard it discussed before so it obviously works for us.

It's rude to imply people are "fat" too but that didn't stop you from using that term to describe MY sisters (and yes, I knew who you were talking about as soon as I read it).

AlphaGamUGa I did have a lot of help writing papers in college amoung other things for having dyslexia. It was a challenge for me but I am thankful that I was able to get it.

Im sorry that is the only thing I wrote about them in my rush book. On another note the chapter left the middle of my freshman year and lost their house. Im sorry about that. My little sister was a Gamma Phi Beta and I know that they have a great sisterhood.

Did you intend this to come of the way it does in terms of tone or am I reading something into it that isn't there?

I didn't appeal for your group's policy to be changed. I was originally asking to be enlightened about the policy itself because it seems different from that of mine and apparently other groups. I was curious if it was a more recent development and wondered what had contributed to the change if it was even, in fact, a change.

Gamma Phi Beta may have learned that the calls do more harm than good to alumnae relationships as well as compromising the PNMs privacy, and it might be a policy that other groups should consider.

Based on your never having heard it discussed before, it doesn't appear that you are able to provide that information.

Again, I don't see why the PNM's potential feelings about being cut change the group's relationship to the member who makes her a legacy.

Why would you all defer more to a young woman who wasn't a member of your group than you would want to communicate with the alumnae members you already had?

I'm not talking about keeping all the legacies here; I'm just talking about not understanding how a PNM's feeling about the group would matter in terms of notification of the member about dropping her. It would seem to me that it would matter less to the member if the PNM weren't really interested in the chapter than the chapter dropped her, but it doesn't really explain why it benefits the GLO not to notify.

We can pretend that all GLOs consider during recruitment is the benefit to the PNM if you want, but I'm not sure that's what happens in most cases.

I actually like Gamma Phi's policy of the chapter not calling. Honestly, when a chapter does call, do they really tell the "whole truth" or do they just say things to try and make the chapter sound good?
I can't imagine a legacy being cut for not being up to chapter "standards" (whatever those might be) and then the alumna actually being told the whole truth. I know from personal experience that the alumna is usually told something about the legacy being a "better fit somewhere else" or that "they didn't seem interested in us" or "they seemed to really love a different house". Bascially, the reason is sugar-coated. So why even call? Let the PNM call and if the alumna wants more answers, they can contact the chapter directly.

I can see all of your points on some level although I wouldn't think you'd want to set up the expectation that an alumna could call the house and hear about MS to her satisfaction.

The chapter making the call does kind of suggest that it's the time for the alum to ask her questions, sugar-coated as the answers are likely to be. But it certainly could be done as a follow up note, I suppose, as well, as as some other posters pointed out, you could soften the news by noting that the PNM joined another group.

As I've said before, there are a lot of practical reasons that I can see why not calling works during recruitment. I can only imagine how angry alumnae get when the chapter is supposed to call and then cuts someone without calling.
Gamma Phi Beta's may be the best practical policy.

It's my understanding that Gamma Phi Beta has the legacy notification policy that it does out of respect for the PNM's privacy. Alphagamuga, since you've persevered in asking WHY my sorority has the policy it does, I'll suggest this as a possible reason: maybe Gamma Phi Beta feels that collegiate recruitment should really be left in the capable hands of our collegiate sisters and the PNMs to decide. It is each PNM's recruitment, NOT the alumna's, and the wants/feelings of each PNM should probably be of more importance in the recruitment process than the alumna's. Some sororities' policies place more importance on the alumna's feelings during recruitment, wheras mine seems to keep that importance on the woman going through recruitment.