If your chapter is having informal rush, and a PNM whom you cut during formal rush comes to more than one rush event (which demonstrates that she has guts and class) and your chapter sticks with their decision not to invite her to join, IMHO it should be no skin off the membership's chairman's nose to buck up and call her, and kindly tell her thank you for coming, but I'm sorry we won't be giving you a bid.
It's tough to do, but it's the only classy way to handle a difficult situation for all! and it's really no different than an HR manager who has to call an applicant who has perhaps interviewed mulltiple times with your company to say, sorry, the position is not available. No detailed explanation is necessary, but courtesy demands the phone call, or even a tactful hand written note. Every PNM who comes to our recruitment events is our guest because we invited her to be there! I hate the don't let the door hit you in the *$% approach. That's what really gives NPC groups a bad name, and deservedly so.

please SAI....tell us more!

Recs at UNCG?
 

Do you think that having recs would have helped you match? A friend's daughter is attending there in the fall, and will be going through recruitment, so I have been glued to this one! Great, interesting thread!

From what I know, UNCG isn't an uber-competitive recruitment like Chapel Hill or NC State. Recs aren't needed at all. The only girls who really have recs there are legacies.

Aww AlwaysSAI, your story is heart breaking. I'd love to hear how you finally found your home in SAI though! Please continue.

First, allow me to agree with the rest of the posters by saying your story really is heartbreaking. I feel like we share may share many qualities as PNM's so I truly sympathize.

I can't wait to hear your happy ending.

Patching myself up
 

I was sure I wanted sisterhood. Like I said in my first post, I wanted to be apart of something larger than myself. I wanted to leave a legacy behind.

One of my Pi Chi's had suggested Theta Nu Xi so I figured, why not?! I attended one of theire events and it felt much more like an interview. And, there were only two sisters there. They said more sisters were supposed to come, but they never showed up. I was quite uncomfortable at the event. I attended with a friend of mine who really liked them and ended up joining, but I told her that was a little intimidating for me.

A few weeks later Alpha Phi Omega painted the rock advertising a recruitment event. I thought about going.....but decided that I was going to take the remainder of the semester off in greek endeavors. I needed a little time to heal.

I spent a lot of time that semester at Western with the Theta Omicron Chapter of AGD. I made the drive up there 3 or 4 times before Christmas break. I also spent a considerable amount of time talking to their Greek Life director who was a Phi Mu at I don't know what school. She urged me to go through formal recruitment again in the fall. She had even begun looking for alumnae that would be willing to write me recs. She emphasized that an entire chapter dynamic can change in a year, people graduate, new people join. At one point, I broke down in her office and told her that I just didn't think I could go through that agian.

The sisters of Theta O chapter opened their arms to me. They were my sisters when I had none. They supported me in whatever I decided to do. They treated me like one of their own. I cried on their shoulders, laid in bed with them at night, and had even gone to frat parties with them. That Christmas, I also attended their formal and wore the beautiful dress I bought for the preference ceremony. Everything they did for me, just cemented my desire for sisterhood and all that it entails.

Sigma Alpha Iota
 

As I stated before, I auditioned at UNCG as a vocal minor and was admitted. I also had a great deal of musical experience under my belt. I studied voice privately for 4 years before entering UNCG, I was the lead vocalist in an award winning trio, I had won competitions as a soloist, had leads in musicals, performed an Carnegie Hall (with a city chior) and had been accepted into a very competitive women's chior; all before entering college, except Carnegie Hall which happened my freshman year at UNCG.

My freshman year while in New York City a young woman came up to me and starting recruiting me for SAI. She told me it was a Women's Music Fraternity and that I should think about joining. I thought, a music sorority? right, like I'm going to join that. I don't need to be in some sorority to cement my talent as a musician. Needless to say, she was relentless. And, that same semester, a girl on my hall pledged SAI and she was having such a great time. She showed me everything her big made for her and all the clues she got during big/lil week.

After my unsuccessful formal recruitment experience, I figured, why not give SAI a shot. One of the older sisters had been hardcore recriuting me for almost a year. So, spring semester of my sophomore year, I went out to rush me SAI. The only people that knew I was rushing were my sister and my very best friend in the whole entire world. I didn't tell anyone else. I didn't want to have to do another one of those..."well, yeah, I didn't get in" speeches. I was horribly nervous, to say the least, but they were such great women and I had such a great time.

Bids went out Friday morning at 9a. I sheepishly made the treck to the music building shaking like a leaf. I get to the lounge........and.......nothing. Only bids from Phi Mu Alpha and Mu Phi Epsilon had gone out. I wasn't sure what to do. I walked back to my dorm and called my very best friend in the whole entire world (yeah, the same one). She told me that when she got out of class at 11a, we would walk over there together. So, we did and she held my hand as we walked down the hallway. I was soooo nervous. Sooooo scared. Something I had been so reluctant about, had become something I despirately desired.

We finally made it to the end of the hallway. We walked into the lounge and on the table sat a gift bag full of SAI bids. I searched frantically through the bag. Of course, here we go again with W. for a last name, but there I was! I opened the enveloped and saw the most beautiful bid card I had ever seen in my life. I had a huge smile on my face and my very best friend in the whole entire world began screaming with joy. We both began screaming and jumping up and down. My very best friend who saw me through hell my freshman year and held my head as I cried over NPC recruitment had seen me come full circle. We ran into the music lab because I had just seen my soon-to-be pledge mom go in there. I ran up to her screaming, YES! YES! YES! Right then and there, I filled out my bid card and couldn't have been happier.

The next six weeks are a blur. Taking quizzes, going to pledge meetings. And, low and behold, MY SAI BIG SISTER WAS A SISTER OF ALPHA CHI OMEGA, initiated by the Zeta Xi chapter at UNCG. She wasn't active anymore...I'm not sure if she turned in her badge or had just gone inactive. I was initiated as a sister into Sigma Alpha Iota on April 29, 2006. The initiation ceremony was so beautiful. I cried, I'll admit it, I cried. I finally understood why the ritual of each organization was so sacred.

That summer, I applied for a very prestigious internship with the NC state government through the North Carolina Youth Advocacy and Involvement Office. (EVERYONE SHOULD LOOK INTO IT!) There were more than 1,600 applicants and only 80 positions to fill. That year, it was particularly competitive. I was awarded my second choice position at the NC Museum of History!!! I spent the entire summer developing a week long camp for children in grades 3-6 that focused on toys and games as entertainment throughout the history and development of our state. IT WAS A HUGE SUCCESS. And, through that position, I learned many leadership and research skills that I couldn't wait to begin using when I returned back to school. I knew I was well on my way to becoming a success.

But, something was missing. I returned to school in the fall. My Big, who had been so dear to me while I was pledging, decided to go inactive because she was tranferring to a school in Conneticut to be closer to her family. I had a hard time navigating through SAI. I wasn't a music minor anymore....I dropped it because i wanted to have a life outside of the practice room. All of the other sisters, except one, saw eachother everyday in the School of Music. I loved these girls. They were my home, the first women to accept me. I refused to go inactive. I had taken vows I would not betray.

But, I wanted something more......

you are bleeding us with paper cuts!! come on , spill the beans!! please.

Yay for SAI!!! :)

I'm anxious to hear the rest of your story though.

Seriously - tell us MORE....

Thank you for being so candid. I was also rejected in my first pursuit of Greek Letter affiliation (there were only locals on my campus at the time and I wanted to be a member of one in particular). Within a month of not getting a bid, I met a wonderful woman who told me about the sorority she was involved in forming and would I like to come to a meeting? That NPC did not come to fruition but we saw presentations a couple of months later from 2 NPC groups who did wnt to come to my campus, AOII and DPhiE. We were colonized by DPhiE in September 1987, almost 20 years ago. The rejection of that local is still a very clear memory but what was meant to be, was meant to be!

The love of Brothers
 

Like I said, I came back to school in the fall as an active sister of my SAI chapter. I was more than thrilled, but was having a hard time feeling a close connection with all the girls.

I wanted to become a leader and with SAI having such a small focus, only doing music related service and recruiting girls within the music building--it wasn't fulfilling my desire. (to become a member of SAI you do not have to be a music major, you just have to take one music course and be able to display musical competancy.)

I began researching other organizations that catered to exactly what I was looking for. A friend of mine from work is a member of Phi Sigma Pi and they were advertising recruitment events all over campus. I talked to him about it and he encouraged me to go. I feel in love with this organization the second I walked in the door. I felt right at home. Everyone was so nice and friendly.

But, if you know anything about Phi Sigma Pi, it is not like pledging your typical greek organization. At the end of rush, there was "Interview Night" which gives the brothers a chance to meet with the prospectives on a more serious note. Then, whoever is invited to continue on in the initiation process is called and invited to attend pinning. I recieved the call and was soo thrilled. Sarah, our initiated advisor that semester, said to me, "Yeah, we love you." I immediately called my sister and what I said to her is something I hope to portray to all the PNMs out there.

"This being greek thing isn't so hard once you find the right organizations." She agreed with me, of course.

I began the loooong process into the brotherhood of Phi Sigma Pi. That which includes interviewing all active brothers, planning and carrying out a social, service, and fundraising event. And, then, at the end of it all each initiate class has to throw a Philosophy of Life Social (affectionately called POL) for the brothers. We also had to make an 80 on the National exam that covered the history of the fraternity.

I was voted President of my initiate class-the Alpha Deltas, when our first president was "voted off the island" as we jokingly called it. Because on top of everything else, the brothers voted on us once every two weeks and if there was someone that they felt was not up to par, that person was asked to leave. We started as a class of 25 and only 12 of us made it to initiation.

That process was tough and grueling, but looking back, it was one of the most meaningful periods of my life. My pledge class really bonded and even to this day, all of us are really close. Phi Sigma Pi has offered me the fellowship and acceptance I have always searched. I love each and every one of them because they accept me for who I am-crazy, cooky, off the wall, screaming with joy AlwaysSAI. I love being a brother because I have so many friends in so many places and I love running into my brothers on campus. The love that has come to me through Phi Sigma Pi is indescribable.

As PinkBabyGirl said, not getting a bid from an NPC org. was one of the hardest, but also one of the best things that happened in my life. Had it not been for that, I never would have found my true home, the place where I belong in Phi Sigma Pi. *As one of my favorite bros put it, "ΦΣΠ Brothers, Friends.....Forever."

So, yes, I sit in meetings for 4 hours every Sunday with Phi Sig starting at 5p and SAI starting at 8p, but I love both of these organizations so much and the vows I took in each of them are so important to me that I would never dream of going inactive. Although, some Sundays, it's a lot to handle.

An update for both of my chapters: SAI-KG chapter made huge feats during the 2006-07 school year! Though we were chartered at the School of Music since 1999 we were not fully affiliated with the university. This year, we achieved that goal and are now reaping the benefits of this affiliation. I am also a newly elected officer in the position of Corresponding Secretary & Editor!!! :D :D
Since I pledge Phi Sigma Pi, we have gained quite the reputation on campus for an organization that creates leaders. SOMETHING WE ARE VERY PROUD OF! We worked really hard with our local cause of supporting the brain anuersym foundation and raised a total of almost $2,000 throughout the spring semester through a variety of fundraisers and a quite successful benefit concert. And, most importantly, due to all of our hard work with the BAF, because of a letter I wrote, we were awarded the Human Relations Award through the office of Multicultural Affairs for the 2007 year. It is a very prestigous award which awarded us a glass plaque, a plaque on the "Wall of Honor" in the Student Center and $100.

I couldn't be happier since I found my home!:D :D :D

Now THAT'S what I was hoping for! Congratulations on finding your home. It's sometimes is a tough road, but I'm so glad you ended up happy. :)

what a happy, happy ending, and one so timely,as there may be a gc pnm for whom, unfortunately, formal recruitment does not work out. thank you for sharing your story.

Absolutely! NPCs are great but they aren't the only way nor the best way for everyone when it comes to being Greek. Finding your home is the important thing and, as we have now seen, that particular home might be in a local, a service org, a professional, or even an a cappella group! :)

Congratulations on finding what you were looking for!!! I'm so happy that you have found your place.

I have a question for everyone else though. I was reading this:

At my university, these activities (interviewing with every member, must plan an event prior to initiation, having to take a knowledge based exam) would be considered hazing, because the new member is forced to do the activity or else they are threatened with not being initiated. Not to say that anyone here was threatened, but if they are saying "You have to interview with all the brothers before you can be initiated" to my university this is hazing. Comments?

i agree faith-nowadays with the strict hazing rules, these activities would be considered hazing.

when i was a pledge, we had wooden crowns that we had to get signed by every initiated sister. some sisters just signed them when asked, others asked us a few zta related questions, some wanted us to visit with them before they would sign their name. it was a way to get the pledges to get to know every girl in the chapter-no harm was done by requiring us to get those signatures. we also had to learn everyones name, hometown and major and were tested on that. those activities would be considered hazing if todays hazing rules are applied.

oh, there was a deadline to get all the signatures and then our big sisters took the crowns, decorated it, had sisters we were close to write a brief message on on of the 5 tips and we got it back as an initiation gift. i think that zta new members are really missing out on a good experience.

Sadly, I think it has to do with the idea of the group and how much it's scrutinized.. Greeks are under more scrutiny for hazing violations than a professional/honorary group is.

I'm a member of a professional organization and we were required to interview brothers prior to initiation and take a test on our knowledge of the fraternity (both local and national) and the professional subject matter (in this case, chemistry). Everything we did earned us points and if you didnt have enough points, you couldn't be initiated. I found it surprising that our 'rituals' contained pieces that I've been taught are considered hazing in the social Greek world-- blindfolds, special attire, and having to stand in front of people to recite information. But it's not seen in the same light... Unfortunately since some social Greek organizations have done enough stupid or dangerous things at some point or another we will always have extra attention on things that could be construed as hazing.

ETA: There's a thread going on right now in fact in Chapter operations about the new member process and the effect that strict hazing definitions have had on it

When I found out that an organization at was "hazing" and other GLOs had heard about it, and I asked one of the my good friends (and ritual officer) about it. They said the 'worst' thing they make them do is meet up with all of the active members.

I was shocked, because I thought this was a great idea! When I was a NM, I would have loved to do that and met every one of my soon-to-be sisters. Plus, what a good way for sisters to seek out little sisters!

I loooove the crown idea for ZTA! That sounds like such a beneficial, memorable activity!

Initiation Process
 

The initiation period in Phi Sigma Pi is what bonds us together so closely as brothers. It is not necessarily true that if you don't achieve all those things you are not initiated. At the end of the process each initiate turns in a folder and the class turns in a scrapbook. The brothers vote on an initiate's admission into the fraternity. We had people this past semester not complete their folders who got iniatated. It's a very different process and I think that it is to the beterment of the fraternity. As I said, my pledge class started out at 25 people. Only 3 people were asked to leave-all the rest dropped out. We had one guy drop out a week before initiation!:eek: It's a process that weeds out undedicated people and therefore, only proven members are initiated. It's not really about the folder or the events, it's about becoming a part of the brotherhood. We are a very large chapter-over 60 brothers (only 2 of us in other greek orgs) and had it not been for that process I am sure that I would still be searching for my home. I would not have been able to navigate such a large fraternity and find my niche had it not been for that process.

It's also a process that prepares each initiate for the brotherhood. Each semester, every active member is judged on a point system. You have to attend 2 social, 2 service, 2 fundraising, and 2 initiate events each semester to remain an active brother. If we just took in initiates without attempting to prepare them for what we are about we would be doing the initiates and the fraternity and grave injustice. We have very few mandatory events because of our points system. You pick and choose what you go to. It works especially well for me and my busy schedule.

Without this process, the Fraternity would not be able to stand firmly on our tripod of scholarship, leadership, and fellowship.

^^^ Bottom line.... if YOUR organization AND your school says that it isn't hazing, then it isn't hazing.

btw, one of my friends is an alumnus of your Phi Sig chapter.

Crescents and Crowns
 

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, my pledge class had wooden crescents, which we had the actives sign the back of - it was a lot of fun. I understand the need for strict anti-hazing rules - but do think that sometimes we've thrown out the baby with the bath water.

And I think ZTA and G Phi B should start having Crescent and Crown events - just cause I like saying "Crescent and Crown!"

Very cool! I <3 my bros. I read your recruitment story-very well written!

I think I've been on my "we've taken anti-hazing policies too far" soap box before about wearing letters, if I remember correctly.

I certainly don't think an individual or group should ever do anything to cause harm or humiliation, but a group should be able to get crowns signed, require interviews, enter a new member team in an event, require people to pass tests on the organization, etc.

I can see why draconian blanket policies are easiest because it leaves no room for doubt or error, but the crown tradition sounds like it could be used beautifully to build sisterhood, rather than abusively to put new members through the ringer, but since it has the potential for making the new members feel that they have to do something they don't want to do, it gets discontinued.
It is a loss of a tradition that probably did allow new members to get to know everyone.

I think the bottom line as far as hazing is concerned is whether something is required. If you MAKE your new members get signatures, then that seems kind of degrading to me. However, I see the reasoning behind the ZTA crown idea, and that it does encourage actives and NMs to meet and become closer. Why not make it a contest to see who can get the most signatures/interviews and explain what you should try to accomplish by meeting with all of these sisters rather than forcing them to do it? Anyone who has taken a psychology class can tell you that people (and other animals) respond better to rewards rather than punishment.

The bottom line is what the rules of the organization and the school are.

Hazing does not equal hazing universally.

If your organization forbids certain activities that you feel are necessary to sisterhood/brotherhood, then use the proper channels to reinstate them.

Absolutely. I would never encourage members to violate the hazing policies of their school or groups as a way of addressing the policies. This is not a case where civil disobedience is likely to have the outcome you want it to.

Ha! I never thought I would see the phrase "civil disobedience" on a Greek website. But you're right....in this case (in my organization) this civil disobedience leads to suspended and expelled members.

Signatures and interviews are only degrading if you make the pledge do something degrading to get them (i.e., clean the toilet, chase you all across campus to meet you etc). Other than that, they're the best way to make sure you meet ALL the sisters, not just the ones who hang out at the house the most or are the most visible. There are chapter sisters of mine who are sweethearts that I'd never have met if I hadn't had to get their signature and interview, simply because they were seniors or not around a lot of the time.

I would hardly call requiring someone to get interviews or sigs of all the members "forcing" them. We had some pledges in my class who didn't get all the interviews - they weren't held back from initiating, but it certainly was remembered in years to come who put forth the most effort, and who hardly even tried. Just like life, you know?

Like I said, I understand the merits of the activity. What I bolded is something that needs to be explained to the new members as a reason why they should want to meet as many sisters as possible (or make it a contest like I said before), rather than being punishing new members for not getting them (which may or may not be the case in a chapter).

There wasn't a "punishment." But as the years went by...the people who put forth the most effort, and the people who put forth the least, definitely seemed to stay along those lines - i.e. the girl who griped about having to go to pledge meetings was the girl who griped about having to go to active meetings or any other mandatory events. And it WAS explained to them why they needed to do this - to get to know the sisters. I mean, who wouldn't want to get to know their sisters? I guess I don't understand WHY you would have to explain this. Have we really gotten to the point where we have to explain why it's important to know the people you're going to call your sisters the rest of your life?

I also don't know what the difference is between a "contest" and everyone having to do it - in a contest, someone wins, and she'll be praised more than the others, right? Wouldn't that be considered hazing too?

Pledgeship is training for active sisterhood. Sometimes there are extenuating factors (i.e. your parent dies while you're pledging or something) but for the most part - those girls who put forth the most effort as pledges will be the most active and dedicated sisters.

And, I'd add that if you actually set up the requirement that they meet every member and set a high bar for involvement, everyone who really wants to be a member will meet it.

I don't mean that in a fraternity "earning your letters" kind of way. I mean that most people will do what's expected or required, but I'm afraid that many people don't buy into contests.

Instead they just kind of figure out what they have to and do it, rather than seeking a way to shine. I know that if I had been told I needed everyone's signature that I would have gotten them all, but if I had been told that it was a contest for the most, that would have opened up the possibility that I could hang back and wait and see what I really needed to do to be in good standing. Were most people getting half the members? Good enough for me.

I think it's a temperament thing that goes back to having to sell fund raising crap in school. I didn't want to win the wonderful prizes; I just wanted to compel my parents to buy enough that the teacher/sponsor/coach wasn't mad at me.

Sure, this reflects a slacker ethos, but there are a lot of us out there. We'll do what's expected, but if you want more out of us, you're going to have to communicate the requirement/expectation/need to us because being the brightest star in the Milky Way all the time isn't what's motivating us. We don't need to shine within the group, but we'll certainly do what we need to do.

Like I said, I know not all chapters will punish NMs.
I agree that the amount of participation from an individual tends to stay the same. Do you think that making an event/activity mandatory during the NM period would help make a NM more active in non-mandatory events after she is initiated?
I think it is more about the tone that the NM educator sets. Again, I am not arguing about the merits of the activity, but I think there are good and bad ways to do it.

I don't think so. What is wrong with rewarding good behavior? Praising one new member for something doesn't cause psychological harm to another new member who doesn't get the praise.

I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed reading this thread! I was Membership Director of my chapter the year you went through recruitment. (so let me just apologize for the random nodders... sometimes, you can practice rushing till you're blue in the face and people just don't get it)

And actually, I think I remember meeting you at our informal sessions the semester before that? But anyway, I found your story so charming because I know ALL of the people in your story... I guess UNCG is like that, I can definitely tell exactly who you are talking about!

I'm glad that you found your place in the UNCG Greek system, and thanks for sharing your recruitment experience with us.

Fellow Spartan!
 

OMG, CarolinaCutie!!

As soon as I read your post, I read the entire thread to make sure I didn't obviously give someone away. A lot of the people in the story have long since graduated, but seeing as you have to (i think), you would probably remember them.

I can't believe someone would remember me....I didn't think I was a very memorable person. Hahaha, you could look at pictures of me in this thread: http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...=11189&page=80

Going through recruitment again has crossed my mind since I have a lot more leadership experience and just involvement in general, now just because I'm curious as to what the outcome would be. I'll admit, I've become much more outspoken since my sophomore year. But, I've never really entertained the idea and I don't know how I feel about paying the $25 again. Even if I did get a bid, I doubt I would have the time for another org and I'm not willing to betray the vows I took. (I know, I've said it 5 million times, but they are really important to me.)

I can't believe someone would think my story was charming either. I actually thought the experience was traumatic, but whatev. :p

We had a wooden key. I thought it was a good way to meet everyone, but I guess I was just being hazed. :rolleyes:

i know...isn't it a shame?

Yeah, everyone in the story that I remembered isn't there anymore... and I think that's why I enjoyed it. A stroll down memory lane, haha.

And yes, I do remember you! Not necessarily from recruitment but definitely from informal recruitment :)