Well, it's interesting to note that of the remaining 4 fraternities, theirs was the only web site where I was unable to find a listing of their notable alumni.

Then I revisited Mr. Marcus.

Since Mr. Marcus was my first love, I really wanted to be SURE that I didn't have any lingering feelings for him.

Honestly speaking, Mr. Marcus is a great organization. I love their history and rich traditions. I like the fact that they have their very own culture. When their members finally grow up, they are real gentlemen. REAL gentlemen!

The problem is they don't grow up until 55, LOL.

But no, seriously..... the one thing that I had against Mr. Marcus was that in my experiences the membership of today was so far away from the ideals of the organization, both what they portray on their website and contemporary literature as well as the more historical aspects.

Their programming is on point, theoretically -- but all I saw was the parties.

In a crowd full of them at a step show, I saw ONE that was like me..... while everyone was being "owt" there was this one Mr. Marcus wearing glasses and sitting with his hands folded.

Did I want to pledge to be around people who were nothing like me? Did I want to pledge to fit a stereotype that was not in line with my values?

To this day I have the utmost respect for the organization and the members who continue to make its history -- but when I revisited the issue, I was one hundred percent certain that Mr. Marcus was not in my heart.

That only left Mandingo and Brian Pumper.

Agreed.

this story here is a trip! LOL, wow I've counted so many puns and innuendos! I didn't know what the names meant but I figured it out :eek:

"Hasn't that joint been built yet?" *DEAD* you know you wrong for that!

Keep the story coming, don't make us wait any longer!

That is my impression as well.

As a die hard 27-year member of Mr. Marcus who doesn't fit the so-called stereotype, I think I understand where you are coming from but with a superficial view you will miss the beauty of Mr. Marcus. Mr. Marcus exemplifies what a college fraternity should be about:a real, robust brotherhood where the values and bonds of fraternity are sacred. You have to have depth and passion. It's not for the self-inflated, faux elitist or social butterfly. It's for real men--I say this as an occasional loving critic of the goings on in Mr. Marcus. Once a Founder of Mr. Marcus said of Brian Pumper,' it's not a fraternity;it's a social club.' But alas, there is a fraternity for everyone's tastes. Be the best BP you can be!

Hmmm...........


Great thread Pham!

Did you hear that noise? That was the point sailing way over your head.

In another life, I would have been a Mandingo, and a great one!

In completing my research of NPHC fraternities, I finally came to Mandingo. If you recall, one of my coworkers was a new Mandingo at DC's state college. He took me to my first collegiate NPHC event. He didn't care that I wasn't interested in his org.

When I was in college, I befriended a grad student -- also a Mandingo! We ended up becoming VERY close over the years. We kept in great touch as he continued grad study, and I visited him out in Ohio last year.

Wherever I went, Mandingo men were always cordial, kind, respectful.... they had a tight bond with their official sisters but also seemed cool with ALL sorority women.

I never once felt uncomfortable in a room full of Mandingos.

Their national service program, their public mottos, their traditions...they were all in line with my values. How they looked and acted was representative of the kind of person that I was (and am).

But when I read their history, I just wasn't moved like I was when I read the histories of Mr. Marcus and Brian Pumper. When I looked at their roster of prominent members, once again -- as in the case of Wesley Pipes -- there was a Brian Pumper who outshined their member in any given field of endeavor. And much like Lexington Steele, could I really come back to my family and friends with...well.... only goodness, when I could come back with greatness?

That was an intense internal battle I had.... if I was looking for my "home" as so many NPCers say, then why couldn't I find my home with Mandingos? I was shown nothing but the utmost brotherhood from them. I was 99 percent certain that the Mandingos would accept me just as I was.

But something just didn't feel right in my soul. Just because I could be a Mandingo doesn't mean I should be.

And that left only Brian Pumper...... but why did Brian's history move me so? Why were Brian's prominent members a universe apart from any other fraternity? What was it that made me so comfortable around other Brian Pumpers? And what was it about Brian's national programs that fell in line so personally with my own values?

Amazing.

OMG, how did I miss this thread???

Rashid, I LOVE YOU MAN!!!! :D:D:D

I love this. That's exactly how it should be.

Wolfman, I think part of what Senusret was saying is that the members of Mr. Marcus he met just didn't hammer away hard enough at what the traditions of the fraternity were about. I'm sure there are Mr. Marcuses out there that have no problem driving the point home!

Understood. I respect Senusret's experience and enjoy his storytelling, which I like very much. In some ways I identify with him; before I pledged Mr. Marcus, the only things I heard about Mr. Marcus was negative. To the outsider I don't fit the "stereotype" of Mr. Marcus but that's where I belong. I grew as a man out of my engagement with the ethos of Mr. Marcus, not because they necessarily mirrored my personality but because of the ideals and the quality of brotherhood exhibited.It's very challenging;it's not for everyone. An analogy: if Brian Pumper is the US Army,Mr. Marcus is the French Foreign Legion.

From what he's shared on GC and in this thread, he's where he should be. What he values is in concert with Brian Pumper. There is an ideological divide between Mr. Marcus and Brian Pumper which is grounded in history, which I commented on. It has nothing to do with the stereotype Senusret refers to about Mr. Marcus or the contemporary nasty one about Brian Pumper.

You don't have to keep on referring to your fraternity as Mr. Marcus. It's in your signature. We all know what fraternity you're in.

oh the puns are just WILD in this thread! lol

bwhahahahaha exactly. :D

so mr. marcus' boys touched touched you, just not the right way. pity they didn't (to quote 33girl) "hammer away" at you :p

best damn thread ever.

I suppose so but that's not the point. In keeping with the thread, it's more fun and engaging. Only those outside of the NPHC realm would not know the organizations he's referring to. It's about the mystique, not the mystery.

huh?

You don't have to be in the NPHC to know which ones are which.

It kinda is the point. Everyone knows now because you responded. If you'd wanted to keep the mystique, just uncheck the 'show signature' option when you post.

I was looking for Brotherhood.

I looked at the five NPHC fraternities to find that Brotherhood.

For each fraternity, I used a four part rubric for determining the one I would pursue once and for all. Once I decided on that fraternity, I would pursue it full force. If I was not selected, I would have been content to not be an NPHC fraternity man at all.

The things that were important to me had everything to do with brotherhood:

A history that resonated in my spirit....something that I could claim as part of MY history. Only Brian Pumper and Mr. Marcus did this.

A roster of alumni whom I aspired to be like..... brotherhood that transcends occupation or generation. Only Brian Pumper and Mr. Marcus did this.

National programs that reflected my own values accurately. I didn't plan on doing service for the sake of service, but service and social action because I wholeheartedly believed in what the organization believed in. Only Brian Pumper did this.

And most importantly, the current members had to be men that I liked to be around. Period. Only Brian Pumper and Mandingo did this.

Brian Pumper was the ONLY fraternity that filled all my needs.

Now, putting that to the side, here are all my OTHER reasons that Brian Pumper made the best fit.

I would have been blazing a trail in my family -- I would be the FIRST Brian Pumper in a very pan hellenic family.

My mother was the queen of the Brian Pumper sweetheart court in college.

The only high school teachers who remained in contact with me after college were Brian Pumpers.

I lived with a Brian Pumper who respected me exactly as I was. In fact, every Brian Pumper I ever met was a perfect gentleman. There was never any flip-flopping member who had one persona during the day and another at night.

They embraced diversity. Remember the white Brian Pumper I met freshman year?

I never had to "justify" their actions because they were always on point.

I obviously was not one of those people who KNEW he would be a Brian Pumper. I was blessed with a family who would support me know matter what and friends who only wanted me to be happy.

So.... six years after initially expressing interest in pledging an NPHC fraternity, I finally became a member -- via an alumni chapter --

of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.

And I haven't looked back since.

No, you don't understand. The mystique I refer to has to do with the joy of entering into a story and engaging it on its own terms. The rhetorical use of porn stars as representations of fraternities is a tool to do just that.

St. Wilona's University is a fictitious jesuit school in a major metropolitan area.

Just an FYI..... NPHC stories can and are VASTLY different. I, for one, am pretty honest about the fact that I looked at several organizations, thought I would join one, changed my mind, and five years later found my home. Other people knew they's "always be a...." whatever.

Yes..... seriously wrong. lol

Yes.... and I would be that big black stud no matter which one I pledged. :)


Actually, he really is an Omega -- I've read an interview where he mentions it.


And please believe that Wesley Pipes was rooting for me.... and still is, LOL




Yes! They are in the Diocese of Cabrini Green, lol



I'm going! :)


Every time... always.



Real talk, to this day I haven't been touched by a Wesley Pipes.




Thanks!


I heart you too ;)


Don't ask.... don't tell.... tee hee




Please..... Brother E. Lynn channels ME. ;)

That means so much coming from you :D


My view wasn't superficial. As Mr. Marcus was something I was PROFOUNDLY interested in at one point, I went beyond the surface. When Mr. Marcuses weren't holding it down, I was making excuses for them in my mind. When the public persona didn't match up with what they were about historically, I tried to believe in the duality of Mr. Marcus members.... but that just wasn't the kind of culture I wanted to be part of.

And indeed, while not one of your founders, I could EASILY call Mr. Marcus a social club and not a fraternity based on MY experiences.

In the end, I got in where I was supposed to be.




Exactly.

While I'm with you on some of your points, I don't agree that there is an ideological divide.

Senusret, that was a great story! You get MUCH respect for putting so much time and thought into your decision. Mr. Pumper was very fortunate to have gotten a brother like you.

Thank you!

How come I've been reading Wesley Pipes as Wesley Snipes? :o

I think that's the whole point of his name.

Girl get your mind in the gutter.

awwwwwwww i have tears in my eyes! (well maybe cause of allergies...) that was such a great story.

i definitely liked that you can comfortably say you were interested in other orgs before you had your mind made up. some NPHC greeks are not so forthcoming. i mean, while i DO believe there are those "i've always wanted to be an XYZ" and believe that, i think it's just as OK to say "i was really interested in XYZ and then saw it wasn't what was for me and i'm glad i am an ABC."

saves the other org(s) a half-@ssed member for the future you know?

great thread, Rashid

Agreed.

I loved this post, it was honest and entertaining. Job well done.:)

Senusret, that was a really good story and for a lot of NPHC GCers here it epitomizes the true and proper way for an aspirant to pursue one of the NPHC orgs. I'on like the way you talked about "Wesley Pipes" tho' :D but different strokes for different folx.

[hijack]Btw, how did I get labeled as a "Wesley Pipes", that cat is the antithesis of my org, though I definately could see him as a "Viking" A-Phi-Que, he would fit that org (or faction thereof) like a custom-made shoe *lol* :D [/hijack]

Believe it or not, based on your story, I think that this thread would make a good sticky for this forum as an example of how would-be NPHC Greeks should properly pursue such an org.

Maybe I should tell the REAL story involving my 14-year quest to be a member of uh.....Wesley Pipes (good grief *lol*). I'on know, we'll see.

Thanx for sharing anyways....

You don't know your history then. Now it's not a real issue but in 1911 it was. In 1911 the Founders of Omega were summoned to have a private meeting with then President Thirkield after they had run afoul of the administration by announcing themselves as a fraternity on campus before they were officially recognized by placing placards all over Howard's campus. In that meeting President Thirkield asked them why they didn't join the fraternity already on campus (Beta Chapter of APHIA). They registered their objections with him. At that time one of the Founders related to him the quip about social clubs vs. fraternities. In his later years one of the Founders said that he and another Founder were approached by the members of APHIA when they were students at Howard. He said they "turned them down flat." They had very different understanding about what a fraternity should be. (My understanding is that APHIA did originate as a social/study club and later morphed into a fraternity,in which all members didn't agree with this transformation. Correct me if I'm wrong!)

Best Thread!
 

I know it's been brought up a time or two already, but I just had to emphasize.... THIS THREAD RULES!

We love you, Rashid!!! It was the best. EVER!

In 1905, there was a social/study club at Cornell University that was established as a means to retain black students at Cornell. The previous year's freshman class ALL dropped out. The men in the social study club first and foremost wanted to serve the students by providing both academic and social support. NOT a "social club" -- social support. It was a study club with social leanings.

Since the beginning, there were members of the social/study club who wanted more, namely to be a fraternity. But not just a social group of college men, in whose fraternity houses several of them served as waiters. But to use the concept of a fraternity as a vehicle for social change. See, they saw what good that "white" fraternities did for their members socially, academically, and professionally. They wanted to emulate this AND inject service and social action into the mix.

But there were some who did not agree with that notion. On December 4, 1906, after a year as a social/study club and a slow evolution into a society with greek letters, colors, and an initiation, the men voted to become Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity. The few men who did not agree with the notion walked away -- including the founder of the social/study club.

By 1911, Alpha Phi Alpha had 11 collegiate chapters and one alumni chapter. If your founders were not looking for what APhiA had to offer, then so be it. If they just didn't mesh with the members of Beta Chapter, that's fine too. You will not find me bashing your organization's genesis or it's rich history. But to say that Alpha Phi Alpha was merely a social club is incorrect and somewhat insulting.

So....I know my history. Now, tell me on what page, in either Dreer or Gill, may I find the passage about the conversation with President Thirkield?

Thank you! :D

I'm spent after reading this thread. Great story, Rashid!

This line made me laugh and laugh.

Great thread, Brother. :) This was the most fun recruitment story I've ever read!