If Nationals has it written, anything written, it is assumed to be official.

I'm partial to Barnard Babes myself but I've never heard of a nickname like the others you mentioned. Although, I wouldn't rule out something in use.

^^^ I'm really not trying to be obstinate, but that makes no sense to me. Context is everything. I don't assume that everything my national publishes is telling me an "official fact." Sometimes they're telling what's official, sometimes they're telling what's traditional but unofficial lore, sometimes it's neither. Sometimes they make clear whether it's official or not, sometimes they rely on me to be able to figure it out from context.

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, but if it's not in (1) the constitution, (2) by-laws or (3) a policy adopted by a body with constitutional authority to adopt such a policy, I wouldn't call it official. Even if it is in a new member manual.

In this particular case, I would take the reference given as a sign that Alpha Xi Delta wants to acknowledge and celebrate the historical relationship with Sigma Nu and doesn't see the need to censor use of the long-used term "brother fraternity" as the way that they have traditionally referred to that relationship. At the same time, Alpha Xi Delta does not officially designate Sigma Nu as it's "brother fraternity."

Apparently many members are not able to make the distinction between a historical, sentimental and/or official connection.

Again, to me that appears to be an assumption that I'm just not seeing that borne out in the comments here.

Do you honestly think that the people who wrote that book (who are probably better versed in NPC rules and regs than 99% of those posting on this board) would have willfully done something which they knew to be a violation? Or how about the organization's national officers who read and likely had to give some sort of approval (I know nothing about how AXiD works internally) for the literature?

I would have to say that countless AXiDs who are well aware of the rules have looked over this literature, read it, understood it, etc., and yet there is no movement within that organization (an assumption I make evidenced by the recent issue of The Quill) to remove mentions of the historical "brother" relationship that they recognize with Sigma Nu. Surely there would at least on some level be a discussion if anyone in that organization had a problem with the way this relationship has been treated.

What you and PM_Mama are suggesting really does seem to be an amazing stretch. Especially when you make that statement without a shred of even anecdotal evidence.

Well, we have 2 AXiDs saying different things - one says that the material from HQ says Sigma Nu's NOT their brother fraternity, and one says that the material says they ARE.

Apparently there is a disconnect somewhere. Both posters are undergrads, so even if the manual was updated in the last year, I wouldn't think something like this would have changed that much in that space of time.

I'm just going by what the sisters themselves are saying.

Kevin, I agree.

I don't know what NPC "rule" is being referenced. The only agreement I know of is the one discouraging auxilliary groups. Even in that case -- NPC has no power of enforcement.

These are historical connections. There's nothing wrong with that.

If y'all are so certain this is a violation, please explain to me how as much has escaped the ladies in charge of writing AXiD materials and approving them?

Both of us have been supporting the idea of Sigma Nu being our brother fraternity. The reason why i said that they "aren't" is because it isn't in the constitution, but we like to think of them as our "brother fraternity" any way.

So am I, and it seems to me that way too much is being read into what they are saying and way too much is being assumed about what they said.

I read the comments together and what I take from it is that there is no official relationship, but that Alpha Xi Delta likes to think of Sigma Nu as its "brother fraternity" and refers to it as such. AXIDplace4me'smost recent post above would seem to indicate I have been reading them as the writers intended them to be read.

You can't have it both ways.

All I know is this: there is no such thing as a national, constitutional, official bond between any NPC group and NIC group. I don't know why anyone in a sorority (other than Zeta Phi Beta) would want to muddy the waters by referring to anyone as their "brothers."

Delta Gamma brings up the Phi Delta Theta connection on their website, but they also say that it's a myth that they are their "brother" fraternity. I see several individual AXiD chapter sites that refer to the Sigma Nus as brothers, but on the national website, while the support and contributions of Sigma Nu are acknowledged, the word "brother" is never mentioned.

http://www.alphaxidelta.org/heritage_founders.asp

I think the comment by Julia Maude Foster was more off-hand and meant to be funny. I would probably say the same thing of any of my close chapter sisters who has the "misfortune" to marry a gentleman from the "other" school in our state.

I'm not sure you read very closely.

The relationship is sentimental, not official. I don't think anyone has ever represented it in any other way.

Now who's stretching?

We are all Greek "brothers and sisters."

And again, that's in a historical context. There is nothing on the national site that says there is any sort of ongoing, current brother/sister relationship.

To whoever thinks I'm being a bitch about this, sorry, but I hate when people can't distinguish history from current policy, or truth from urban legend. Trust me, I get just as annoyed with the endless "brothel law" postings.

I have never represented that there was any sort of official relationship, nor has anyone else (for the nth time).

It is a historical and sentimental relationship. It seems you are quite content to tell the rest of us, including several AXiDs who don't seem to agree with you about their own organization's culture and history. That's awfully presumptuous.

You've seen several quotes from current official documents which while referring to a current relationship, also do not state that there is anything beyond a sentimental and historical relationship.

I have never run into an AXiD who disavowed the relationship or referred to it as anything but current and existing. If all the members of that organization believe that, then it exists.

As for "we are all greek brothers and sisters," it doesn't say that on the page. It just talks about Sigma Nus doing something for their "sister" greeks. Notably, it never refers to the other chapters at Lombard at the time as brother or sister greeks. The meaning is pretty clear in that regard. You stated that the site says nothing re the relationship, in that regard, you're just wrong (for the nth time).

I don't understand what NPC "rule" has been violated or what "real problem" comes from this.

There haven't been any quotes. If you would like to quote directly from the document you referred to that "hanged" on your wall, that might clear up the confusion.

NBH, as to WHY encouraging brother/sister relationships on a national level can be a problem for NPC groups, please see my earlier posts.

There is no "rule" and no group is going to be in "trouble" from NPC for any reference to a brother fraternity.

Why don't you refer to the active AXiD sister who made references to the explanation of this relationship in her new member manual provided by HQ. She then took some sort of quiz regarding history in which the question "Who is our brother fraternity?" was asked. It's page 4ish.

That should clear up your confusion.

It troubles me that a non-member of an organization thinks its her place to say how another organization should run their business when no rule is being broken.

Let it go.

Dude you're just annoying now. Let it go. Go beat some homeless people up or something.

___

Official...

Are you guys really that dense?

Yeah, this thread OFFICIALLY got lame.

Maybe I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last), but as far as I can tell, the constitutional bond between Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma has not jeopardized either of their single-sex status. Nor that or any other GLO for that matter. So why couldn't an NPC and NIC/IFC do something similar (legal and constitutional bound) as well?

Did the thread get lame because Kevin demonstrated he's pretty much right?

Or is it because people are now going to have to debate the meaning of officially?

No...and that is official.

If it wasn't lame before..... :(

Egg-fucking-xactly.

No it's because Kevin hates homeless people and beats them up for change. That's why it's lame.

I think you have your answer.

And he also can't take jokes.

Well, it's just not as hilarious to me as it is to you when people who don't know what they're talking about want to tell others that their organization's history and culture contravene some sort of rule or policy. Especially when they take such a rude/confident tone in doing so.

I have a decent sense of humor. It's just that for some reason, someone saying that I beat up homeless people isn't funny. Imagine that.

During my NM period we did learn about the connection. Although not official, many member see the brother of Sigma Nu as brother. This is just something that each member feels. HQ supports the chapters in teaching NMs about the historical connection but many member like the thought of an unofficial brother fraternity. HQ never said that there was an offical connection. Also most members know that it is an unoffical connection but some don't care.

There is no Sigma Nu chapter at my school and I know that they are not our "brother" fraternity, but I still feel excitment and joy when I meet a brother of Sigma Nu. I guess that most members are just really greatful to them for all the help they gave our Founder.

Kevin: 1 The usual bullies: 0

If Kevin hadn't shot his mouth off in the first place, this thread would have never had to "go there."

Sock Puppet: -7688463