Oh chill out, seriously. If you think I was being completely serious in my response about staying in our fraternity houses......then you are taking all of this way too seriously.

The facebook invitation was overboard......obviously, and uncalled for......however.....the party itself wasn't that huge of a deal in my book. It was a themed party in which the BSU tried to find things that were "racist" that weren't actually there, i.e. the depiction of a lynching, etc.

DSTS, how is that taking responsibility away from people? Taking responsibility away from people is when you criminalize (or in this case, have the university take action) in order to prevent future events. If you really wanted to emphasize responsibility, you'd let these people generally do what they want, let them deal with the consequences, and leave it up to the offended party to make a decision on what to do/not do in response.

It is for JHU and Sigma Chi IHQ to determine what is appropriate. The leaders of those two organizations have ownership of the reputation and well-being of all members- and they alone have the authority to investigate.

The BSU is certainly free to question JHU's handling of the situation, but they have no business getting directly involved with the affairs of any other student organization. And they have NO right to intrude on private property and question the legal behavior of any person. Period end of story.

Nice try of you to make note that campus organizations focused on activism and being the voice of students should have special privileges over other organizations.

Who gets to decide that? How is a student organization for blacks any more a voice for the student body at large than a single fraternity?

And what do you mean by activism? Do you mean activism on issues that suit you personally? Greeks are very activist by nature. We do philanthropy work. Alumni help students run chapters and provide an employment network for graduates. Alumni of GLOs also have much higher rates of donations to their alma maters than non-GLO members.

These guys at that chapter had every right to throw that party and do and say as they pleased as long as no laws were broken.

And with regards to the race issue- no laws were broken.

The consequences they face will be decided by Sigma Chi IHQ and JHU- as should be the case. After all, those are the two organizations under whom this particular chapter could exist.

Don't get me wrong, if my chapter ever did something like this I would be pissed- and I would bust their asses if they had made a public scene of it like these guys did.

But that does not change the fact that other student groups, the BSU in this instance, have no business dictating how some students conduct themselves within the confines of the law.

Most people are going to agree with you that this was a dumb thing to do. But good luck getting people to agree that you have a right to dictate how other people conduct their affairs- because you don't.

It would be hilarious if Sigma Chi announced they were investigating the BSU's investigation.

It'd never happen, but hilarity would ensue.

Haha, this was my first LOL of the day!

Yep and without that the BSU wouldn't have had a reason to get started.

Exactly.

I find it hard to believe you've read that book or any other book.

Isn't that what's going on here?

The University hasn't specified that themed parties aren't allowed or that certain themes are not permissable for everyone else, did they? So therefore the University is assuming that smart people can take a hint and will govern themselves accordingly in light of recent events. If they choose not to govern themselves accordingly, they will deal with the consequences and the offended party (for instance, the black students who the BSU is representing) will make a decision on what to do/not to do in response. So maybe Sigma Chi will get their status back and be able to hold parties again, JHU is probably putting things on hold for them so that this situation will die down.

The BSU didn't make any real decisions, they brought attention to something and semi-protested. I don't know what campus organizations you all are used to but the student-representative ones at the Universities I've attended have all been extremely proactive, reactive, and activist just like the BSU is in this instance. If the University has a problem with that, they will put the BSU in its place. Oh well. :)

I don't deny that you make good points, but hear me out. The invite was incredibly racist. However, Sigma Chi brothers saw it, deemed it highly inappropriate and asked that it be taken down. It was, then put back up. The BSU saw the invite and went over the party to see what was up. Fair enough, I would have done the same thing. They saw the skeleton and that was enough. They did not go into the party where they may or may not have found some hard evidence. Accusing the Sigma Chis of racism based upon a PotC skeleton and an invite the Sigma Chis themselves condemned is just out of hand. They don't have anything to go on other than the racist facebook invitation which Sigma Chi did not condone in any way, and a skeleton that was unrelated.
That's the problem here.

DSTS, maybe I should have said natural consequences. Isn't the university taking action against the fraternity? I think they should make the fraternity fend for themselves, and work to rebuild their image.

What constitutes "natural consequences?" God's wrath? Volcanos and earthquakes?

Again, I don't know what campus cultures some of you are used to. If GLOs want to not have to potentially deal with university sanctions, be able to fend for themselves, and work on their OWN image, they need to remove themselves from the campus. If they choose to remain on the campus, they will always have to answer to the university and remember that their image as a GLO is never as important to the university as the university's image is. Moreover, campus organizations often have to respond to the challenges of other campus organizations, especially when other campus organizations have some political or administrative pull.

So where is the disagreement? We both acknowledge that an investigation began as a result of a facebook advertisement. So they went to the party and the first thing they saw was a (misinterpreted) skeleton and they figured they wouldn't be welcomed or comfortable at the party, anyway, because they deemed it racially offensive. I wouldn't have gone into the party, either, unless I was going to call them out. Human beings are very unlikely to say "ohhhh, fun party...Pirates of the Carribean skeleton...I guess we can forget about the facebook invite and call it even."

The point of an investigation is to iron things out and see if further action needs to be taken, which is why we now know that it was one Sigma Chi who did the invitation and put it back up. That one Sigma Chi was punished before this investigation became public but how would the BSU really know this? Did the Sigma Chis attempt to do some form of outreach to smooth things over? If so, good. If not, bad. But if anyone is calling the entire chapter racist solely based on this information, they are idiots and I don't make it my business to debate about the thoughts and actions of idiots.

The whole thing is B S!

Illegal-NO.
Insenative-YES.

Some people will get their noses bent out of joint for any small reason.:rolleyes:

Chastise them and go along with life.

To many people are so thin skinned, they ought to stay in a closet and hide from the world.

DSTS, well I don't know how it works up there either. Its my opinion that organizations should be allowed to exist unless they break the law, or something else that really disturbs life at the university. Simply because something is not PC, and offends somebody, doesn't mean the organization should get the boot. An atheist group or a gay group probably doesn't reflect the values or students of a university, but that doesn't mean they should get reprimanded for their views. I'm just generally against legislating how people are allowed to think and act in their own time, regardless of what they're a member of. Let the group, and the national fraternity, decide what to do.

Well there ya go. You don't get to determine what disturbs life at the university.

But a Black Student Union does?

If a group of students expressed concern and felt their learning environment and campus experience is threatened by intolerant assholes? Yep.

Most universities have regulations that reasonably encourage "nonthreatening learning environments" both inside and outside of the classroom.

Oh come on.....their learning environment???? You could say 99.999% of all of the parties that fraternities throw would be considered a hindrance to one's "learning environment."

I'm sorry, maybe its different on all of the campuses I have been to and know of. I've never heard of s student group actually having that type of authority which would enable them to help in an investigation and play a role in the fate of a chapter.

Nice of you to categorize Johns Hopkins chapter of Sigma Chi as "intollerant assholes" because one guy made a dumbass Facebook group....which was obviously not condoned by the fraternity.

Good observation. Many universities have made a similar observation and are more closely regulating parties.

It's not real to you therefore it doesn't exist, right?


You're way smarter than to draw this conclusion. I hope.

I don't really think this party disturbs anything more than an atheist group holding some event would. When I said serious disturbances, I meant something that really hindered life on campus, not something that people got their feathers ruffled over.

If the atheist group used religious-sattire or offensive words and images aimed at nonatheists to advertise? Perhaps.

As someone who has been on campuses with racial tension sparked by what many white people (not all b/c there were whites who protested, as well) thought was harmless fun because they never had to think about anyone other than themselves, I can say that a group of concerned students and/or administration is the determinant of what is a hinderance.

I have kept quiet for a while because I felt that my being a Sigma Chi might be clouding my judgement on this issue. I still stand by my first posting in this thread.

I am disturbed by the fact that a JHU official(s) told them that the party was a bad idea and they should not hold it (or maybe they should change the theme). For the chapter to go ahead shows a complete lack of sense and judgement. This is where the local alumns and HQ should step in and have the chapter take a serious look at themselves and what they feel is the image of Sigma Chi.

I am disturbed by the BSU getting so involved. With all due respect to members on this board who think that BSU has a right to be involved: I believe that BSU has a right to their opinion and to express that opinion. But, I do not believe that they have the right to be in the investigation (if I am reading that correctly). They should let the JHU administration and Sigma Chi HQ investigate. If the BSU does not agree with the recommendation of the admin and our HQ, let us know. I would feel the same way if this were any other group. I didn't agree with the Campus Republican groups that held the Affirmative Action Bake Sales. It is not up to me or my group, but the admin and whatever HQ they have to decide the punishment or lack thereof.
If I am misreading the extent of the BSU's involvement with the investigation, please let me know and I will edit out my comments.

I never said something similar didn't exist......however, judging from the responses of many people in this thread....it does appear that the idea of having a student organization take a role in the investigation process of another student organization is rather foreign. That is why I said that maybe it was different at places that I am familiar with.

Maybe I drew the wrong conclusion.....but it did seem like you were making a pretty strong inferrence with the "intollerant assholes" comment.

Wow, insulting intelligence. Now that's never been done on a message board. Instead of being able to come up with some eloquent come back, it's just drivel that you usually write.

Cool.

So, if I'm concerned over liberal protests on my campus, I can deem that a hinderance? Why do some people deserve authority to deem things offensive and thus not allowable, while others don't?

Yes. There are student organizations aimed at reducing the influence of liberalism on college campuses. They target professors who they deem liberal (many times they are wrong because they assume all professors in a certain discipline are liberals who can't distinguish scholarly discourse from personal opinion) and campus activities.

It really depends on the "offense" and who is offended. There are students who protest against some professors who lecture against racism because it goes against whatever (often warped) views these students were raised to have. Of course these students aren't taken seriously by administration when they complain because an investigation doesn't uncover any cause for action. However, if the same professors begin their racism lectures with "white people are the devil and kill all the white people" or "if you think there's racism it's only because you're a dumb minority who would rather get high than work" then there is definitely cause for action. The professor can claim to be joking or whatever but this delivery clearly threatens the learning environment and potentially the campus culture of tolerance and diversity.

Aside from the debatable specifics of this incident, has anyone heard of a party or function thrown by Black students with a theme that is meant to imitate or derive from European influenced culture? I mean, I have yet to see a flyer from a predominately Black org. that publicizes a St. Patrick's Day or Oktoberfest celebration(with people dressed in sparkling green hats or lederhosen). I know I'm generalizing, but there seems to be a trend among many party-planning caucasian americans to mimic what they perceive to be Black or other minorities' cultures in their celebrations. I've been invited to Jamaican, Mexican, and Asian themed parties by plenty of white students(they probably didn't cross the line, but the ignorance is apparent), but have yet to see a Norweigan or Irish party hosted by Black students.

I'm not saying that a "hood" party is cultural or anything, but it seems like many white students get a thrill out of partying like "cool minorities", but won't have anything to do with them otherwise. To be honest I don't really care what happens at JHU. The broken nose and two black eyes are already there for all to see. I just wanted to beat a horse while it's dying.


-GC's Most High

DSTS, I agree, but my deeming it won't make the university take action. Universities take action in response to politically correct claims a lot more than they do against others. Thats what it boils down to for me, the BSU could go "racism" and the university goes "where, kick em off!" IFC or a Christian group likely wouldnt have such success. But regardless, I don't go to JHU, so the thrill of this thread is starting to wane on me. Kick everyone off, I've lost my interest.

Cool.

This thread was never thrilling.

Ah, complaining about a fraternity using a non-offensive term and theme from mainstream entertainment enjoyed by all races is a good way to divert attention from the fact that the city is a dump that can't address its inherent problems. The old mayor of Newark used to do this too. I think Republicans do it with gay marriage.

Good one Baltimore!

-Rudey
--I bet it does have a high rate of HIV too but that's cool because I like ladies with std's that start with the letter H.

That's pretty rough holding the group liable to that extent for the idiocy of an individual.

Look, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Should they have done it? No, probably not. Most people today recognize a joke as a joke (even an offensive one), but hey, we all know some will take it seriously, so we shouldn't do something that we know will truly offend and hurt another person.

But legal action? Are you kidding me? Bite me. Seriously. That's absolutely stupid. Should I sue the next black woman that tells me I dance like a white girl, tells me she can show me how to do it better? Should I get all offended and tell her she's racist and get upset? I mean, it IS a RACIST joke, but it's a JOKE.

Unless there's some obvious threat involved, or some absolutely blatant hate joke, there is no point in flipping out. Certainly NO basis to sue.

ETA: I do not see how they could say for certain the skeleton was anything BUT a Pirates of the Carribean reference. How do they know it is not? And I also do not see what they cited in the article as necessarily racist. I guess we know what they were probably implying by "hood", but does NO ONE of another race buy into the "bling" trend?

The consequence here doesn't seem that out of line based on the inablility of the group to use good judgment. I've not sure that diversity training ever really helps, but it doesn't hurt. The group seems to need some additional advisors.

The party and especially the invite just seem dumb, dumb, dumb. But finding them guilty of "harassment and intimidation" strikes me as a little extreme. Somebody explain it to me. Who was harassed and intimidated? People accidentally viewing the invitation on Facebook? Guest at the party? People who came to the partly uninvited?

It would seem to me that you'd have to have victim to be guilty of harassment and intimidation, or are they saying that the community at large was victimized?