Did you interact with any members of this organization, or are you just acting on the insight of your non-member friend, would be my first question.

Scandia, I think some people here are uncomfortable with the idea (and I'm getting to that point myself) of someone approaching a sorority without any sort of connections -- and by that I mean having a very close friend or relative bring up the idea of AI to you. I'm all about AI for women that have done a lot for either an individual chapter or the philanthropy at large, like being a staff advisor. Ditto for mothers or sisters of members who have been very involved with the sorority. In your case, an argument could be made that you don't have strong enough connections to this organization to merit an AI attempt. Some people would say that it would be fine to attempt to AI with this group.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you contact multiple sororities??? I'm not trying to be contentious, you just made it sound in this post like you found ONE sorority that you thought would be a perfect fit, but I thought you had contacted a few to begin with.

To answer your question, it's a free country and you can approach AI with whatever GLO will accept your request. I wouldn't rely on what a nonmember friend says about an organization, honestly, a nonmember's opinion of a GLO really means squat. And to sum it up, you're free to do whatever you want but just know that some people on GC will be supportive of your AI search and some won't.

Edited for clarity, which has apparently eluded me these past few weeks, LOL

There is always this confusion between the ideal and aspirations of the national organization and the local alumnae chapter.

I see women over and over again aspiring to be a member of XYZ group before she has met one single person from the local chapter.

• It is the local chapter that will sponsor you.
• It is the local chapter that will question why you want to join them.
• It is the local chapter that will either say gee you're swell or you don't fit us at all.

Had I not clicked with the local chapter and had a strong prior association with DG I would not have been offered the chance to be initiated. If I had not clicked with them, I wouldn't have decided to try Alpha Phi, or ZETA or Pi Phi, for example. All wonderful organization in their own right, but I had no *connection* with them.

Alpha Chi Emily- Though I have spoken to people from a 5 sororities that seemed appealing, I have only directly contacted the headquarters of the two that were the best matches for me. Until I meet with them in person, I cannot say if one is a perfect fit- but those two seem to be the ones where I would fit in best.

Greekalum- I am not quite sure what you mean. My example is not exactly what happened to me, but not totally hypothetical either. There were members of my A Phi O pledge class who were in sororities- and I still talk to some through MySpace. However, neither one of those are as good a match as the ones I contacted directly. Great organizations, but they are better suited for those specific friends than for myself.

DGMarie- I have not met with any local chapters yet. That will be a big part- whether I click with them or not. After all, it will show in practice what someone who follows those ideals is.

How do you know the GLO doesn't match your personality or ideals? Are the members of the local alumnae association satan-worshippers who kick puppies? In anyone's "search" for a sorority, throw the national names and symbols out of the mix. The local alumnae association and its composition of members are all that matters. These are the women you'll be interacting with-- and your interactions will largely be composed of planning meetings and the occasional happy hour or charity event/fundraiser. Who cares if that charity supports promotion of visions, children's literacy or domestic violence? Given a regular calendar year, an alumnae association will hold a big event to sponsor its philanthropy and maybe some smaller service events toward this cause, but they will also hold other events for other philanthropies, too. Ritual is something you will be lucky to participate in annually, if at all. Alumnae associations are run like service clubs-- and there are not regular mandatory meetings, so attendance is sporadic at best.

How do you determine that a sorority seems appealing? The people who are actually living, breathing members of the local group are the sorority. If you don't know any of them, you can't begin to profess "interest."

I definitely agree with what many of you are saying. AI SHOULD be for women who have a prior connection to a sorority, not a woman who wakes up and says "Gee, I think I'll join a sorority today!" (a cookie to whoever gets the movie reference ;) )

I'm not sure what you mean by "follow those ideals." How will you know? On what basis will you make your decision? Try to remember these are real grown up people, not ideals, certainly not walking manifestations of the national motto or creed. Nor will these likely EVER be seriously discussed at an alumnae function. We drink coffee, have taco salad, stuff endless (endless) newsletters and have little monthly social gatherings, chat about our children etc.

How will you answer their questions if they ask you point blank why you want to be an XYZ when there are so many other women's organizations you could join? (sorry if you've answered this because I haven't read all your posts.)

Hi Scandia,

As to your personal quest, or that of any other person, I have no intentions of rendering any individual judgments. This is the internet and we are strangers. For me to judge your AI path would be for me to make assumptions about your intentions that are not my business to make.

All I was trying to do is offer a more general perspective on how AI can be perceived from the inside of the Greek Community- and especially with the way I see it being discussed on this forum at times. All I can comment on is what I have read here- I am reluctant to comment on individual pursuits.

At the end of the day, if you- or anyone else- finds a GLO chapter that wishes to initiate you as an alumnus, then clearly both you and that chapter have found a brotherly or sisterly bond that connects you. And just as I would never tolerate anyone questioning who my brothers are and how they came to be my brothers, I would never question a person's affiliation with a chapter or how that came to be.

AI is after all a specific term that describes a path to initiation. Once initiation is complete, you are a full member and that is all there is to it as far as I am concerned.

Universities and chapters vary, as do members of GLOs and those who become members- either through rush, AI or any other form of association provided for under a given GLO's bylaws.

So I am not going to be the one to look at an individual case and say "good" or "bad". I like being a human being- I will leave "playing God" for God himself since I have enough to worry about :)

All I wanted to do with my post was let people know how certain approaches might appear, and also hopefully stimulate people to think more closely about their own reasons for wanting to initiate into a Greek organization.

Make no mistake- Greek organizations NEED adult members to guide them and be there. Most of the women I dated in college were Greek, and every single one of them had great things to say about their house mothers. I met a lot of them too in visits to the sorority houses, and I think they were a great presence. Many of them are AIs naturally.

There is much good that AIs can do for a chapter that will bring back great personal rewards for the gift of service to others, and I don't want anything I have said to hinder anyone from pursuing this.

All that I ask is that people seeking this path give it serious thought- especially if you want to post about it here and receive guidance. There are many eyes on this forum- as is to be expected with any heavily trafficked internet forum these days- and your evaluation process may well start from the first time you post.

This is so true. I think if you have had no experience with any alumnae organization you get stars in your eyes about what goes on. We aren't singing and lighting candles and wearing letters to meetings.

For reals. I can think of ONE sorority that I probably wouldn't consider based on my ideals, and that is taking into account the fact that I'm odd. There's no such thing as a sorority, as a general concept, being a match or non-match for any person. There's no such thing as being a "good fit" for any sorority in the abstract. You're only a good fit if, as everybody is saying, you like the local members, they like you, and you have something worthwhile to offer.

DGMarie- A secret society with so many interesting traditions and rituals does appeal to me. I like mysteries of that sort. It was simply thrilling to run into some of my A Phi O brothers at my job and do the secret handshake with the. It is a unique bond. Plus there are also friendships to be made, and charitable causes to be assisted, and many other events that can certainly be a great experience.

Adpiucf- well, in addition to the philanthropies and ideals espoused in their creeds, there are other aspects such as the information displayed on the site and the way it is done. And sometimes your intuition just gives a signal. Or sometimes you remember people in a chapter being nice to you and you have the memories.

AUDeltaGam- I sure did not! I do not remember how I found out about AI- just the feeling of an airplane soaring into the sky that I got when I read that it existed.

EE-BO- you bet I have given it serious thought. Hence I have posted here to learn more about it- as well as read many GLO websites, asked people at my job whether they were in sororities (so far nobody has), and done as much investigation as I can.

Yeah. You're freaking weird. :p

And I have yet to meet a college PNM who says, "I want to join this sorority and this sorority only because of its ideals." No. She makes her choices based on her meetings with the local groups, not because of the sorority's strong national reputation. At the end of the day, an alumnae association is a social group. You just have to click with the ladies, who come in all ages, shapes and sizes. I think it is a hoot that I'm the youngest in my AA by a couple of decades. There are younger members, but I haven't seen them at anything. If I was joining ADPi now and this was the group before me, I probably would be reluctant to join b/c of the age gap. I love the ladies, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be around a group closer to my age and station in life right now. I love this AA though, because of my past involvement and the programming we're working on. If I was a newbie to the whole sorority world, this wouldn't be the right group for me, regardless of how much I might love violets and lions and Ronald McDonald House Charities.

But you're not going to be involved in rituals -- once a year tops if there's a collegiate chapter nearby, and even less if there is not. And ritual does not create a unique bond. Friendship creates a unique bond.

And you're telling me you're attracted to a sorority because of they way they designed their website? Seriously? Scandia, intuition is not something you glean off a web site. You get it from interactions with flesh and blood people, not MySpace or Greek Chat people on the internet.

I really think that with every post you make on GC, you paint a picture that screams out this process is not right for you. I'm not standing up on a mountaintop singing, "Nah nah nah, I'm in a sorority and you're not," but you can't go by philanthropies and ritualistic mysteries in the process of AI. You must be invited by someone who is a member. You're not going to get that on GC, MySpace, Facebook or arbitrarily contacting HQ's. I think you need to not pursue this quite so strongly and just get involved with your community. If you meet sorority alumnae with whom you click, they'll recognize that there is something special about you and invite you to their AA and maybe get the process going. AI is not membership recruitment.

Just what do you think goes on at an alumnae meeting???

Rituals and handshakes? Candles and secret codes?

We have lots of coffee. Sometimes even bad coffee. All 5 of us!

Coffee??? You're in the wrong alumnae group. Our meetings only lack alcohol if it's a morning gathering for breakfast.

What, you guys haven't heard of mimosas and bloody marys?

SO true!

And even at alumnae meetings, we are DISCOURAGED from talking about ritual or doing anything REMOTELY RELATED to ritual because
1) there's always someone new @ a mtg and their membership has not been verified
2) usually, meetings are in a public place, so there are lots of people around
3) if the meetings are @ someone's house, sometimes there are husbands & kids around..

In my 21 years of being a Kappa Delta & meeting many sisters randomly, I don't think I ever met one & said anything ritual/secret to them, nor was I ever asked.

I've only heard of fraternity members verifying their memberships by handshakes/passwords.

There's also bellinis.

ok sometimes there is wine....but we're mostly 40-60+ women and we aren't having a happy hour.

But I digress. The point I was trying to make was that we aren't all sitting around in robes looking for a candle to light.

Cosign dude.

Our breakfasts are usually at cafes. Brunch, at someone's house, would probably have mimosas. :D

Your alumnae experience is what you make of it.

I never named names in my post.

I know you didn't. I was just saying how I stumbled upon it.

Amen and Amen, on both counts. :)

That's a really good point. My feeling on that is if you feel like you need to hide it then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I can't imagine any alumnae chapter would be happy to know the PNAI was attending functions for AAs of multiple organizations. I know that if I were confronted with that situation in my alumnae chapter I would be very skeptical of the PNAI's sincerety about my organization.

Otter, I totally concur. And though I have always been PRO AI I want to make it clear that PRO AI shouldn't be taken for granted, exploited and shouldn't equal pushover...

You are awesome.

I haven't gone through ritual in over three years--and I'm active in the local alumnae association and I help out with the collegiate chapter nearby. I imagine the next time I go through it will be either if I attend a convention or I advise a chapter--neither of which will be for quite some time!

I've said this before, but I believe that NPC AI needs to be more like grad chapter initiation for NPHC groups, at least on the PNAI's part. My (biological) sister did her research in private--maybe by going on the sororities' websites, but not relying on the internets--and showed her interest in other ways, by being active in the community and rubbing elbows with some of the women in the grad chapter through events. Some of them knew our family, which probably helped; plus, she had a connection to her organization. She did not post her "homecoming story!" on GC. She did not let anyone else know what she was looking into at any time other than the appropriate one. She pursued sorority membership with DISCRETION, and it worked well for her. Most of the women that I know who have gone through NPC AI have similar stories--and those are the ones we like to hear.

Finally, Florida is a small state. Even though I haven't lived there for over seven years, I have AXO connections in every major city. If you annoy/offend/gross out someone on the internets, you could be jeopardizing your AI chances.

Completely excellent.

Not always. That depends on the GLO.

And as a side note, I didn't know we had this cool little feature where you can make a list. Thanks DGMarie, you are S-M-R-T smart. :D

It will help the PNAMs list out the sororities they have shopped for.

• Rainbow Brite
• My Little Ponies
• Care Bears
• Fraggle Rock
• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
• He-Man
• She-Ra

[Runs for cover]

We need to see if Carnation's Cruddy Phi Cruddy allows for AI.

I just couldn't resist...sorry.

adpiucf - you hit it right on the nail!

I believe this has been said before, but fundamentally, most sororities are based on the same things. We want to foster friendships, encourage scholastic achievement, create and develop great leaders, give back to the community and create a sense of sisterhood.

A good 99.99% of NPC sororities have SOMETHING to that effect in their creeds/open mottos/etc.

So Scandia if you are basing your decision on websites and their creeds, I hate to burst your bubble, but that won't narrow down your search. :)

When you go through recruitment (at the college level), most women know that in a general sense, most chapters do about the same things (have sisterhood times, socials, philanthropy events, academic stuff). One of the things I have noticed is that a lot of their decision is based on their ability to connect to the women already in the chapter.

At a post-graduate level, it should pretty much be the same.

If you pick a sorority based on the cool pin that you get to wear twice a year, or the awesome ritual you will see at the very most once a year, you might as well put all 26 sororities on a piece of paper and pick one out of a hat.

EXACTLY. When I went through recruitment, I loved certain aspects of some sororities on campus, but when I met the women, I knew I'd never be happy there. As much as I loved their philanthropy/mascot/ideals, the women were not the type of people I'd feel as comfortable with. I think each and every one of the NPC sororities have worthwhile philanthropies, good symphonies, etc. I value everything about Alpha Chi Omega, but the women in my chapter are what made me love my sorority. They were the ones I spent my time with, learned from, laughed with, cried with, etc. They were the bridesmaids in my wedding, and they're the ones who I've kept in contact with more than anyone else.

Because every sorority has such high ideals, you honestly can't choose one at random and say you feel a connection. You need to meet the women, because what would be the point of AIing if you loved the ideals but hated the women in your alum chapter? Who wants to attend events where they don't like 90% of the people?

What is with the influx of AI hopefuls in the past few days who are all but shouting from the rooftops "I'M SORORITY SHOPPING...SOMEONE PLEASE BE MY INTERWEB SPONSOR (or at the very least, spell it out letter by letter for each org, so I don't have to do any real work myself...)!!!".

It's because some people like to advertise AI as being the wave of the future. That's what happens when you give out false information.

I bet Tom is sending them all....

When I hear that statement, "AI is the wave of the future," I think of Wonder Woman flying in the sky and an announcer's voice echoing "The waaaaaaaaaaave of the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuture"

/weird.

This probably isn't the best place to ask this question, but since MBurden posted in this thread so often, I thought it wasn't too far-reaching. Anyone know why/when she was banned? And why were so many innocuous (at least IMHO they were innocuous) posts deleted from this thread? And while I'm hijacking... what's with the new verification box in the search function?

back to your regularly scheduled sorority shopping thread...

PM stalking members and carrying on hateful PMs, openly attacking members and saying derogatory things about specific sororities