Ok, I'll see if I can make any sense here...
 

***Anyone with more insight into this matter please correct my mistakes***

As far as I know, and from what I remember from my time going through recruitment (fall 2001, so not too long ago ;) ) is that if you are offered a bid from any of the houses you listed on your pref card, regardless of whether or not you accepted it (ie signed a bid card) then you are ineligible for recruitment for one calendar year. When you did your final rankings, after pref, and a house listed there (1-3) offers you a bid, it means that you have "matched" with a group which is what make you ineligible to participate in COB or COR until at least next August. If you had suicided on your bid card (only listed 1 house) and were not offered a bid by them, then you would still be available for other recruitment events now. I hope this makes sense, and I'm sure some of our recruitment gurus here can make this a little clearer, but I hope it helps you a little! :)

Thanks for clarifying! That's what I meant :D

Did you rank groups on a card after Preference and sign it?

I'm not allowed to through formal rcruitment for 1 year but spring recruitment is informal...right?

Often times the term "bid" is used when in reality people are actually referring to card you filled out after pref parties that had your ranking on it. By filling that out it means you will accept a bid from any of the sororities you listed. Since you were offered a bid and did not accept it, you are now ineleigible to participate in any form of recruitment for one calendar year.

This includes COB at anytime during the year and informal recruitment in the spring. You are not allowed to accept an invitation to join an NPC group until formal recruitment next year.

Hmmm...
 

It's my understanding that unless she actually signed a bid card she is free to participate in any form of recruitment that she wants. However, if she were to have actually SIGNED the bid card, only then would she have to wait one calendar year to participate in recruitment.

It breaks my heart to see someone get a bid & not even give the house a chance. God knows how many girls would've loved a bid.

That may be true, but it is still her choice and I don't think it is our place to give her a hard time for making the decision that she feels is right for her. I give her credit for continuing to post and answer questions!

Quite honestly, I see the potential nightmare in encouraging SIP, but if more PNMs who wanted to SIP, did SIP and were released from recruitment rather than be placed into a chapter someone else may have wanted, we would likely have more committed long-term members. Sure, plenty of women receive their 2nd choice or lower... and end up happy. Even more get their first choice and end up happy. And somewhere along their 4 years in college, they decide they don't want to be part of a sorority anymore, for whatever the reason, and drop.

I'd rather see someone not show up at Bid Day b/c she knows it is not what she wants, then to put up a pretense and spend a lot of time and money, and for the chapter to invest their time and hearts into someone who doesn't want to be there.

I'm not coming down on your crazychx, but I am reading this thread and I feel a lot of anymosity coming from sorority women to this girl. If she hadn't been matched, this thread would be covered with (((hugs))) and regrets and good luck wishes. Instead, we're being critical. Yes, I feel that if you give your 2 or 7th choice a shot you may love it, but that has to be a snap decision you make on Bid Day, and if you're so disappointed and unhappy at seeing your top choice did not make you an offer, you may go home crying instead. Or worse, lock yourself into the bathroom of your new sorority house, spreading your misery to the rest of the happy chapter and new sisters.

So, I'm happy that Rumbly made the decision that this wasn't what she wanted. Maybe she'll rush again and get into the chapter she wants to become a member of; maybe that sorority will be a different sorority than it was this fall. Maybe she won't get into the chapter she wants if she rushes again. But the fact is that this fall is over, and she didn't join a sorority. Let's stop pressuring her. I imagine that this is a hard time for her as it is.

But do you want a girl who doesn't want to be there in YOUR house on bid day? The one thing I CAN'T stand is a crying girl who didn't get her favorite XYZ house on bid day. If you don't want to be there, you shouldn't have come in the first place.

Thats OK adpiucf, I know you aren't coming down on me & I understand what you're saying.

And Adelphean, I definitely wouldn't want a girl crying at the house if she didn't want to be there. I don't know how other schools do it, but at UK the girls that don't want to sign their bids don't ever have to meet the other pledges or sisters.

My comment was mostly made to show how I feel in regards to everyone keeping an open mind. It makes me sad to see someone not keep an open mind & be willing to give any sorority a chance, when there are so many girls that received no bid & would be willing. Thats all, I'm not trying to come down on the OP.

Ugh, I hate it too. I don't care how upset a new member is about her bid, crying is downright rude. This past year a PNM named "Sally" went to our pref ceremony and another sorority's pref ceremony. She ranked the other sorority first and AXO second. Right after she turned in her bid card she had a change of heart and decided she really wanted AXO. Well of course they told her she couldn't do that, that bid matching had already begun and it was final. She started bawling to the director of Greek Life, all the Rho Chis and Panhel president, and nobody could do anything about it. So of course Sally got a bid to the sorority she ranked #1 and went to their bid day SOBBING. It was so bad and so unnerving to the other new members that the president of XYZ had to call one of my sisters to have her calm this girl down. So one of my sisters had to leave AXO's bid night to go to XYZ's bid night to talk to Sally. It's fine to be disappointed, but don't sit there and sob hysterically and refuse to participate in bid night -- you preferenced that sorority -- so don't cry. Sally ended up staying on as a new member in XYZ and actually initiated, but I give lots of credit to XYZ for dealing with her. I would have wanted to tell her "Fine, if you hate us so much, there's the door, don't let it hit your ass on the way out." :rolleyes:

No. By not not accepting a bid from a group you listed on your preference card, you cannot be involved in any sort of recruitment proccess for one calendar year. Unless U of A doesn't follow the normal NPC rules - which could be a possibility but I highly doubt it. I suggest you call you campus Panhellenic to be sure.

This cannot be true since with some houses you never actually sign your bid card. For instance, Chi Omega bid cards do not have a spot for signature. If she filled out her preference card after pref parties, that is the card that is binding. Since she received a bid from one of the houses she went to for pref, I would assume she did in fact fill out that card. (I'm not sure all schools make you actually sign that card, but filling it in and submitting it with ABC and XYZ listed means you will accept a bid from either of those houses if they offer you one).

Here's my advice to you:

Go to the informal recruitment events (if they are open invitation events) this spring. Obviously, if there are private parties or invitation-only events, you probably won't be invited but that's because the chapters know you can't accept a bid until next year. But go to the ones that are open invitation, if they even have those at your college. You can meet all the girls and really get to know them, and then if you do decide to go through formal recruitment again, you'll have a base of members that you already know. It can only help you. You're not eligible to receive any sort of bid though, until the next formal recruitment.

But they wouldn't allow us to SIP. If I had the option I would have cause in no way did I want to take a bid away from a girl that was truly deserving.

That's funny you should say that because I was just thinking that I don't remember signing a bid card. I recall that at my alma mater the procedure was as you described, filling out the preference card is binding. That's what makes it so scary if you pref a house you didn't love and one you do love. I put all three houses on my bid card and I REALLY wanted ChiO, was so-so about one and really did not feel comfortable at the third. But I put all three b/c my Rho Chi (as they were called in those days) told me it would maximize my chances of getting ChiO to follow the panhellenic rules and put all three....but the flip side was that if i received a bid from anyone I'd be prohibited from rushing again for a year.

Say someone is in Rumblytumbly's shoes, where they go through recruitment and end up with invites to, say, two pref parties.

This PNM really loves ABC and doesn't really like XYZ, but since you have to go two, she goes to both pref parties.

When it comes time to preference the sororities, if the PNM really doesn't want to be a member of XYZ, and she's not allowed to SIP, wouldn't it make sense for the PNM to preference ABC and sorority DEF, a sorority which she liked but had already cut her? DEF would be highly unlikely to give her a bid, so then she would only really be able to get a bid from ABC or be released from recruitment. In that way, the PNM wouldn't be taking a bid from a sorority she didn't like and preventing another girl who really wanted XYZ from getting a bid.

I've always been confused about whether this would work, logistically, but it seemed to make sense to me when I thought about it.

I believe that in order to follow panhellenic rules you have to rank the houses you attended that night. So unless you only preffed one house (with a maximum of two) you wouldn't be following panhell ruled unless you ranked both. That's my recollection, but anyone feel free to correct me. :)

What does SIP mean?

Single Intentional Preference = suicide

SIP = Single Indvidual Preference

Also known as a fancy term for "suiciding" to one sorority after prefs.

In all fairness, sometimes Rho Gams and Pan Exec are not exactly forthcoming with info to PNMs. Not b/c they don't want to be, but b/c they themselves don't know, having only been doing this "job" for a couple of months.

Well, that is simply untrue. I don't know if the Rho Chi was trying to lie, or if she was just mis-informed, but the only thing that increased your chance of a Chi O bid was putting them #1.

Rumblytumbly, I am sorry it turned out this way and you were not allowed to SIP. However, before attending open COR events in the Spring to get to know the ladies, PLEASE check with Panhellenic and mkae sure this is ok. You don't want to break any rules and jepordize your chances for next year. Also, if they say it is ok, please be sure to inform the women at the chapters that you are not eleigible for a bid until fall. You don't want them to have problems either.

That's so funny! She had some story about how if you follow panhellenic rules you're run through the computer a second time and it will pick you up if you're on the second bid list and they didn't already match up to quota. LOL...I was young and uninformed i guess!

Like the former Greek Life head told me back in 1996 when I went through rush at Ole Miss: "Rush is not a guaranteed process. You have to play the game ladies or you'll be left behind."

I think it is great advice to use...

I know-- I remember one year that "you aren't allowed to suicide/SIP or you'll be kicked out of the computer."

Big. Fat. Lie.

But the person who told us believed it herself because it was a rumor that had circulated among people in the "know."

Well, the part about second bid lists to quota is true, but it has nothing to do with running you through the computer the second time because you "followed the rules" by not SIPing.

If Chi O made it through their first bid list and did not match to quota, they will work their way down their second bid list until they reach quota. So if you have them #1, and they make it to your name on the second bid list, you will get the bid. But that would have been true if you had SIP'd, too.

We have read threads here where it was pointed out that to be eligible as a quota addition, the PNM could not have SIP'd. In that case, it would increase their chances.

Once again, if everybody always played by the rules, this would not be as big of an issue. But there are always a few women who dirty rush and tell Suzy PNM "If you SIP us then we'll get to take you as a quota addition", which is why the PNMs are strongly discouraged from SIP and even told that they can't be a quota addition if they do SIP.

I know some PNMs get desperate to be in a top house, but I'd be totally turned off if a sister said that to me. She's basically saying "We don't want you bad enough to put you on our first bid list, but if you want us bad enough, we'll take you if we have room left over."

I agree. We had one girl a few years ago who eventhough she put us on her bid list she wanted to be in another chapter. When she opened her bid and discovered it was from us and not the other chapter, she went to her dorm room and cried and refused to come to our bid day activities. HOwever we wanted her to be a member and cared about her even at that point enough that we sent to her dorm room two seniors (who LOVED Theta with all their heart and soul) to talk to her. They convinced her to come to our floor and hang out with the members and new members. She and we were so glad she did and decided to give us a chance afterall. Not only did she end up loving our chapter, but she also was voted "Best New Member" by the chapter and became quite a productive member!

I think it must be acknowledged that 18 year old women are emotional and well, irrational sometimes. (Guys around the world flock to this post) When Suzie PNM gets her bid and it's ABC not XYZ, she doesn't see "YAY I got ABC" but "XYZ HATES ME"

It's one thing to say you can't SIP or you won't be eligible for quota additions. Otter was told she'd have a better chance of getting in if she was on their second bid list and had the other houses listed. Actually, it's probably the opposite. If she was on the Chi O second list, it's probably more likely that she would have been taken by on of the other houses she preffed before being a quota addition to her #1 house. The number of women snapped or quota addition is MUCH smaller than the number of women matched in the "regular" way.

Wow, hope my daughter gets an offer she can't refuse! This makes me nervous for her.

Remember its a two way matching process
 

I think it's fine for girls to suicide if they they only want a bid to one house, and I'm surprised that some colleges actually forbid this as rumblytumbly says.

But I think it's perfectly appropriate for Greek Life to encourage the girls to list all houses and remain eligible for quota additions. The girls have to understand though, that it means they basically have to take a bid from any that they list.

However, like the quota additions policy requires, I don't think that you can have quota additions for girls who suicide. If you did, you'd essentually be deciding that some houses can be as big as they want to be (As far as most groups seem to go, everyone who prefs is likely on the bid list.So if the girls can suicide and get a bid, the house could pick up everyone they preffed.) The very idea of quota would probably be destroyed.

Does anyone ever wish that we did things more like the men's groups and didn't have quota? Anyone have any insight about why we don't? (The men's groups have all the same financial considerations.)

Because we're women, we're anal rententive and we like to make list upon list and analyze every damn detail to death! :D

Hey, you asked why we don't do it like the men.

Or maaaaaaybe it's because boys are lazy? :p Seriously, I do think women are more organized overall (myself excluded)....that probably explains it.

ok me too me too here is my opinion . . .

If Polly pnm puts down XYZ 1st and ABC 2nd
then the computer will go down the list
* and if polly is on XYZ's top list then she gets a bid from XYZ (that was the easy one)
* if polly is on XYZ 2nd list and they don't get their entire 1st list to quota then they will go to their 2nd list and she gets a bid from XYZ
* if polly is on XYZ's 2nd list and the get to quota before getting to her then the computer goes to Polly's 2nd choice
* if ABC gets to quota with all of the pnm's that put them 1st then Polly will go up for quota additions (where applicable) - I think this is true even if Polly is on their top list
* if that is the case then she will be eligable for her 1st choice 1st and if they get to her on their list prior to the 5% quota addition then she gets a bid from XYZ
* if she doesn't match with XYZ for quota additions then again the computer will go to Polly's 2nd choice for quota additions.
* if none of that happens then poor polly has been cross cut. - although sometimes the panhellenic will send the quota additions to the smaller of the two chapters (so the above information is when all things are relatively equal)

I believe in the end the system is set up to give the pnm their 1st choice.

Now if Polly sip's then disregard everything in red. No quota addition - No second choice - No bid on bid day

I do, but only because it seems more honest for the guys (not always completely honest & ethical) but they don't have to have someone hold their hand. If they don't like somewhere they don't have to go, the guys really know who they'd like to accept based on deeper conversations & hopefully a more honest sense of the guy's personality. And also since it's usually more informal there are no bells and whistles to sway people's decisions. They get to see you at your most normal. That is more honest to me. So I kinda prefer the way the gentlemen do it. Of course their chapters are almost never equal in size, but then again many NPC groups run the range from small to very large on one campus as well...I think it could work, but we'll never know...

well. . .
 

some of it might really be differences in the way men and women are in general:

We like to work more cooperatively and see things work out for everyone while men may be more directly competitive.

But, doing formal rush with quota (and pressure for all groups to make quota) puts a lot of pressure on groups to get a certain number of girls, instead of trying to recruit and give bids to all the ones that they want. It causes some girls that might want a group who are on that groups second bid list to get matched to the woman's second choice when really had quota not applied she could be at her first choice.

If the men did the same thing, then I think we could say that it was about building the strength of the system overall, but the guys don't do things that way. Frequently what considered a good sized guy frat. is actually about half the size of the biggest women's groups. They are financially solvent too with lower numbers.

Why couldn't women's rush work the same way? Does anyplace do it the same way for both genders?

At the University of Memphis, IFC has a formal recruitment like Panhellenic. I believe they hold an informal after that. I am not sure, but think they also have formal IFC recruitment at Ole Miss, LSU, and SMU. Someone from or familiar with those campuses, please confirm.

Remember, too, the men blackball and their pledgeship lasts an entire semester. They often pledge more men than they initiate.