Exactly!

As for the infertility issues.....After chatting with many moms about this, not a one has expressed disdain over mothers interacting and caring for their babies in public. They express sadness at being invited to baby showers, birthday parties, and intrusive questions about their plans to conceive, but not at the sight of children and parents in public. I avoid telling my friends and family members who are struggling with infertility about my pregnancy etc. I wait until they ask and then keep it short.

I've been trying to find the words for this.....

What a anti-child society we have become. People are disturbed by a babies cry, laugh, sight. We don't feed them with our breasts, rock them in our arms (we have swings for that), keep them close at night, hold them when they cry..... Once they are out of the womb mothers are encouraged to stay as far away from their baby as possible and told not to use their instincts.:mad: Then we wonder why kids rather spend time in front of the tv and have no dialogue with their parents. We are so incredibly detached from our kids its sickening.

With that said....I was once annoyed by the sound of kids playing outside my window on the weekends, crying babies made the hair on my neck stand on end and I thought a good spanking would solve all problems. I know better now:)

I think the analogy is apt though. Yes, women who just had a miscarriage, etc. are going to be very very sensitive to things like babies and breast feeding. However, this isn't the breastfeeder's problem. You don't have a right NOT to be offended. Just like if I'm holding hands with my boyfriend, you might be sadened because of a sad breakup, but this is not myfault. I'm not doing it to spite you. (I did just read an article about an infertile woman who went through a phase where even the dog had puppies just to spite her.)

The people who just whip out the boob for feeding time and make a big blatent deal about it are as bad as the people who are about 2 seconds away from having sex in public. But you can't use the extreme to judge the group as a whole.

Side note: I believe in NY it's technically legal for a woman to go topless anywhere a man can. This sort of negates the breast feeding argument there.

WOW.

You're certainly living in a different society than I am.

Nah, I think your example sucked pretty badly, to be honest.

Well, I could have gone with the "every time you put your dog to sleep there are a zillion dog food ads starring that breed of dog" example.

Yes, but then you shouldn't call the TV station and complain about the ads because of your own personal problems...

/A general you, not specific.

She was joking, hon.

Co-sign!


As for the atricle/cover, I think it looks fine, esp. for the audience.

As for breastfeeding in public, I have no problem with a woman feeding her child. I would much rather prefer that she used a blanket (or something similar) to cover herself, rather than just unbuttoning and parting her shirt and exposing herself. I know no one on here (nor their wives) have done this, but it certainly has been done by others in the world. Not everyone cares to be discrete.

As for breastfeeding in general, you should do whatever is best for you and your child. Some people don't want to or aren't able to breast feed at all. Others don't want to continue it any longer than 6 months, when the teeth come in, 2 weeks b4 returning to work, 1 yr, 2 yrs, or whenever. If you see someone doing something different than what worked for you, then keep your comments to yourself and keep it moving. No one cares that you feel they are depriving their child of crucial nutrients by introducing formula, nor does anyone care that you think they are enabling their child by breastfeeding a toddler. Its what they like, and its their right to do so.

Lastly, I believe that there was a comment a couple of pages back about priorities and neglect...as said above everyone is different, and differnet from you does not necessarily equal bad nor does it equal misplaced priorities. Many women have to work. Many women find themselves single moms not by their own choosing. Many women find not working and failing to provide their child w/a college fund, or access to qualities schools, programs and experiences (all of which may be unaffordable w/o her working) just as neglectful as discontinuing breastfeeding to return to work. I'm not saying that women should/should not work. It, like breastfeeding, is a personal preference based upon what works in your situation. What I am saying is insinuations of neglect and misplaced priorities have no place in this discussion about each family doing what is best for them.

I know, but she had made the point about the breastfeeding women and the infertile/miscarriage women. She's clearly agree that calling the TV station and complaining about the ad would be an overreaction, I say not-breastfeeding because there could be someone suffering after a miscarriage would be an overreaction.

I never said not to breastfeed!!!

I said we (society we) need to provide comfortable, clean, places for women to do so in private. For women who are upset about this or that, for people who just plain don't want to see it, for parents who don't want to explain it to their kids.

Personally I was just raised that breastfeeding is a private function. If that's "old fashioned" or "anti child" then so be it.

I know you didn't say in general, I meant at like a restaurant... sorry, I'm too lazy to type everything! :)

Really? Why are we even having this discussion then? If we lived in a child friendly society breastfeeding wouldn't cause a stir at all.

Pick up any mainstream parenting book or magazine. Read their "expert" advice. Go to babies r us and look at all the contraptions available so that moms don't have to hold their babies. Ever seen babies awake in their carseats for hours at a time in the mall, restaurant? Bottles propped so moms don't have to hold baby during a feeding? Ever heard of extinction or Ferber or Ezzo (www.ezzo.info) Having babies cry themselves to sleep for hours.....til they puke? This is reality for most American babies.

Everywhere I went when my daughter was an infant I got they why are you holding her/breastfeeding/picking her up when she cries. I got a lot of I did this with my child and he's fine blah blah..... :rolleyes: These are the issues new moms face. Great way to bring on PPD.

Maybe you are not aware of these things as they are not of importance to you right now.

I felt this way before I had a baby, and after breastfeeding for eight months, I still do. Though childbirth does cause one to lose a great deal of her modesty, I could never, would never nurse my son in public.

Then again, I still have those nightmares of arriving at school and realizing that I'm wearing pajamas.

What?! Don't they cover the animal kingdom in grade school anymore? Did something change? Are we not considered mammals?:confused: :rolleyes:

Do parents explain the cover of Maxim to their kids at the checkout line? Or do you mean the parents who don't want to explain to their kids why they were not breastfed?

Well, I'm glad, Ms. Suzy Homemaker, that you had a personal maid to clean your house and take care of your business and a rich husband to pay for it all while you stayed home and held your baby every waking second. I didn't have that luxury. I still had a house to take care of and bills to pay, and so yes, I put my baby in a swing for a few minutes at a time. She slept and hung out in her carseat/carrier while I did the laundry. I propped the bottle for a minute when dinner was quickly becoming a fire hazard. I went to work and left her with a babysitter who had other children and couldn't hold MY child from 6 am - 5 pm.

And I have yet to see a BabyTalk or Parenting that tells you not to pickup/hold/cuddle/nurse/love on your baby. Maybe you mistook that for a copy of Dianetics.:rolleyes:

This sounds like the Law & Order episode where the young mom listened to the "experts" on breastfeeding and was too STOO PID to listen to her own instincts - namely, that she should bag the breastfeeding and go to formula.

All the "fashion experts" say leggings are in for the fall, and they're selling them in all the stores. That doesn't mean I have to believe the experts, or purchase them. If I have a child, I'll be the same contrary bia I am with everything else in my life, and do what I think is best - forget the magazines, books, all that garbage.

Repeat these words after me: "This is my kid. Not yours. F off." I'm sorry if you felt pressured or that you weren't raising your child right, but it's a BIG BIG BIG leap from that to saying our society is "anti child."

Not in my experience. Nor were the sorts of "hands-off" parenting that you are describing recommended in any magazines or books that I can remember reading. Not saying we live in a perfect-parenting society, but what you describe sounds like way over-generalized exaggeration to me.

As for the Ferber method -- it was much more helpful in teaching our kids how to fall asleep than us holding the babies, keeping them in our bed, nursing them to sleep, etc. The latter strategies meant that no one was getting a good night's sleep. We were the cranky-pants family the next day. Not good for anybody. (And the longest either of our babies cried with the Ferber method was 45 minutes the first night -- with no puking involved. Amazing how within a few nights, they were going to sleep on their own quite easily and with little if any crying.)

But what do I know -- I was raised by a nanny in Edwardian England. (Just kidding, of course. I was really raised during the reign of George VI.)

Thank You!!! Many people today simply cannot dedicate the time that they would like to their kids. That is a big part of why these things are invented. Not b/c of some big corporate plot to make parents care less about their kids. Additionally, more and more people move away from their homes and families each year. As a result they don't have the support that they used to have and need more creative ways to get by. If you have many kids under the age of 5 and no one to help you, then you MIGHT need something to swing a restless little person or hold a bottle for you. Jeez!

Are you sure it wasn't George I?

Hey!!! I'm not that old!

BTW...how's the little man doing with his toilet etiquette?

Hey, why the need for a personal attack and make assumptions about my life? Nothing you said was near the truth.:rolleyes: And why are you trying to justify your decisions? Second guessing yourself much?

BTW, housework can be done while wearing your baby, fyi.

LOL, you remembered!

We have a system where we give the kids "gotchas" when we catch them doing something well, treating someone particulary nicely, being particularly helpful or the like. When a certain number of gotchas are accumulated, they can be traded in for a treat of some kind. (Basically, we use them as positive reinforcement for behavior we are trying to encourage.)

The other day he came out of the bathroom, while I happened to be out in the hall. I called him into the kitchen and handed him a "gotcha." He looked puzzled and asked, "What's this for." "Because," I said, "I was standing in the hall and I heard you put the seat down before you flushed."

Mom started clapping.

I'm sorry AlphaFrog, but I disagree. I worked MORE than fulltime, took care of a large home and stayed active in many volunteer activities and my son never spent a minute in a swing and was never in a car seat longer than it took to transport him from point a to point b (unless he was already asleep). I am not independently wealthy, did not have a live-in maid or anything of the sort. And, for the record, neither does ZTAMiami. It was a struggle for her, financially and otherwise, to stay home with her child. You do what works for you...obviously the lifestyle ZTA Miami described is not your choice and that is fine. As my mother says, that is why there is chocolate and vanilla, so that everyone can have a choice.

This thread was a discussion on the magazine cover and has now devolved into people scorning others for the parenting choices they have made. That is sad.

That's why they make nursing tops - so that mothers can feed discretely. It's easy to say 'throw a blanket on for coverage' until you've actually had to do this and you are faced with a squirming bundle that is more interested in tossing off the blanket than nursing (and you are leaking milk everywhere to boot). :D I gave up after the first attempt and spent a small fortune on nursing tops, dresses and appropriate undergarments. I was never once asked to cover up or leave a room.

Oh yes. There is nothing healthier for a baby than to be hanging off mommy's chest while she dusts.

Babies don't 'hang off mommy's chest' in a sling, only in one of those Baby Bjorn thingys (which are horrible for baby's hips and pelvis, btw). In fact, in a sling they can be fully protected from dust in the air and sleep through whole-house vacuuming and more. When older, babies and children can be slung on the back, placing them even further away from dust and grime.

Educate yourself first, don't judge.

http://www.mayawrap.com/p_mayawrap.php

Thanks Barbara.:)
BTW everyone, when I got pregnant with my daughter I was and still am the first one in my circle of friends. Barbara is the one who "took me under her wing" per say and open my eyes to a different (or ancient) way of viewing pregnancy, birth and parenting. Her help has been an invaluable resource to me, my husband and my daughter. And we had never even met as she lives on the other side of the state:) Now that is one beautiful sister!

OK, all I can visualize if I had a baby in one of those and I was scrubbing the tub is baby flying out, into the tub and cracking his/her head open. Cause I have hard water and crappy tub stains.

Yeah, that's always fun...scrubbing the toilette w/Clorox Bleach while your baby inhales all of that good healty aroma.

For the record...I don't really care what you or AlphaFrog or anyone else does. Like, I said...you should do what works for you. However, if someone does something different that does not necessarily mean that it is not just as good, not required by circumstance, they don't love or want to bond with their child. It's just different, and unless it is worthy of calling child and family services over, then keep your judgements to yourself. If you don't want to use a bouncer, or interactive play system, or bottles, or pacifiers, or backpack/carrier/sling (which arguably was created so that women wouldn't have to actually hold their baby - according to your logic), then don't. However, it is not your place to make a judgement on someone else who does.

ROFLMAO! Yes, there are some things you shouldn't do while wearing your baby - agreed!!! :p :D

Things you should't do when wearing your baby:

cleaning the tub
cooking
driving
skateboarding
carpentry

That is why I added in 'or something similar'. Whatever works for you;)

participate in the X-games
sniff glue
breakdancing

Where is this anti-child society of which you speak?

Exactly. I think we've become MORE child tolerant. Movie theatres did not have mommy and baby showings when I was a kid!

The reason for the front pack and the sling is to carry the baby with her/his head close to the mother or fathers chest so that the baby can hear the parents heartbeat, which is comforting to the baby since that is basically what it heard in the womb.

The backpack is a simple convenience so that the baby can be taken along on hikes or other places where a stroller won't work.

I hope you didn't mean it to be, but I found your comment to sound pretty snide.

Oh heck DA the s==t is going to hit the fan now!:(

I just wonder how many posters of the thread every ah had Children?

But, there seems to be alot who know more than parents.:o

Read my response above.

Maybe a lot of you don't see it, because you are not looking for it. I never noticed before I had my daughter.

*Le sigh* I meant for it to sound just the same way that ZTAMiami's comments sounded regarding the many devices that she listed which are clearly not meant to separate mother from child. Of course the sling isn't made so that women don't have to hold their children. Just like bottles obviously aren't made to end or interrupt the process of breastfeeding. If my comments injured you in anyway, then go home and hang out w/the family. I'm sure you'll feel 100% better after only a few mins. :D Cheers!

Eh, I think there are many ways in which our society is overly child-centric. I suppose there's good and bad on both sides of the issue, but I have yet to see anything I'd call anti-child. I think people who are all gung ho against breastfeeding are probably just puritanical weirdos who have issues and are freaked out by breasts -- not really anti-child.

Hell, I don't like small children or babies AT ALL, but as long as they don't overly interfere with my life, I really don't care.