Hazing is part of human nature from childhood throughout adulthood. There are just different extremes that people on GC like to go on tangents about. The more common forms of hazing happen in almost every facet of life and go virtually unnoticed or unchallenged. There are very few places in our lives that don't require us to not only bust our butts to get there but to also bust our butts to remain there. Perhaps the avenues through which we achieve our social positions don't REALLY require all this butt busting, but we do it because it's a right of passage that others have endured and we're told the hard work will pay off. It's typically called things like "playing the game," "being political," or "fitting in." Most of it can technically be hazing, though.

People are hazed in the office through things such as:

1) "busy work"
2) not being invited to certain post office hours gatherings (b/c you have to EARN the right to mingle with the office clique or chum it up with the CEO and his people)
3) not getting the promotion because so-and-so plays office politics better
4) some graduate programs and employers have strict regulations regarding who can receive health insurance. These regulations are often just a weeding out process to force people to be productive. Many of these programs and employers could fund everyone if they chose to.

Of course there are "excuses" as to why the aforementioned policies and practices are in place. Just like how I can justify most forms of hazing by saying it fulfills a purpose and serves the greater good.

Other hazing in the office may include putting someone's stapler in jello, from what I see on tv.

You took my work analogy wayyyyy too seriously.

;) I know you're trying to be funny but things like that actually do happen.

No. You were trying to make a point by using an extreme analogy.

I responded to your point (not your analogy) by telling you that you have no point.

Yall, hazing can be off the hook!

The shit they did to us when I pledged my first org, was a hot mess. It pissed me the hell off. But, looking back I LMAO!

-They made us get our hair did, and then dunked our heads in a washing machine...in mid-cycle!
-They made us do humiliating tests. Instead of doing the pencil test, they gave us miniture dildos. If we passed the test (meaning yo boobs sag down too low), we had to down five packages of strawberry-lemonade koolaide. Yall know that shit is sour in powder form
-One of my line sisters got all sassy with an active once. The active got a bag of dill pickles and slapped her upside the head with it. She got knocked the fuck out. SHE.GOT.KNOCKED.THE.FUCK.OUT!

Yeah sure. ;)

Anyway, you are one person who I would condone receiving the rinse cycle. Might set your mind right.

And I maintain that it is hilarious when they do.

Indeed. :D

But for the purpose of this thread: "Hazing in all shapes and forms is hurtful and never okay." :mad:

Show me where a fraternity has been suspended or have had their charter pulled because of the things that I listed..........I doubt there are any.

Using the examples I listed isn't going to give a fraternity a bad reputation. That is idiotic. If anything, it is going to make the chapter stronger and more respected.

Thanks.

I only hear of sororities getting into trouble over the things you listed. Fraternities' headquarters are a lot more tolerant and their pledges seem to appear a lot less likely to report the things you listed.

Are you kidding me? What kind of pathetic excuse of a chapter did you come from? Our orgs are EXCLUSIVE not inclusive. That means not everybody can get in, and make it through. It takes the cream of the crop. All this amounts to earning it. If you didn't have to earn anything, why even have a pledging process? Why not initiate them after they sign a bid card?

People here say hazing will be the downfall of greek life. I disagree. The end of greek life will come when incoming freshmen don't want to rush because greek life got so dull and PC...that is where we are headed with this whole "you don't have to earn it", "new member associates", "balanced man" etc. attitude. Rushes want the full experience, atleast the good ones do. The ones that don't can join a school club, greek life is not for everybody.

Seriously... how old are you? We're talking about social organizations for college students that have exclusive membership. That's it. It's not like you just got into the CIA or entrance into an elite fellowship at Oxford.

You go through recruitment. You like what they have to offer, they like what you have to offer, and you get invited to membership. Then you attend social events, do some community service and make some good friends. That's all it is, pal. It's just a club with an exclusive membership clause. But if you think it's important enough that you should have to race around naked and grope one another or drink until you pass out to show you're worthy of going to socials, doing community service and making some friends... .then.... um, yeah. Do what you have to do. Because having to prove yourself by reciting your pledgebook in your boxers while being splashed with cold water is, like, really mature and, like, totally shows how dedicated you are. More power to you.

You're an idiot.

I don't know what kind of personal experiences you have had that led you to believe that those things are what what happens during pledgeship......but you are quite misinformed.

Alot of times, getting into a very exclusive/top tier fraternity can set you up for life, especially in the business world........so excuse us if we take it seriously and respect just how important recruitment is for some of our orgs. are.

I think you've seen The Skulls too many times. LOL.

I never said recruitment wasn't important. But you're placing way too much emphasis on having to "prove" your membership to a social organization. I don't think the country club hazes its provisional members, but maybe I should double check...

Fraternities and sororities are a great way to enjoy college and enjoy some good educational programming, parties and do some service, learn about philanthropy,team skills, deadlines and leadership. Post-college, you take some warm and fuzzy memories with you. Once you're in the office, no one cares. Sure, if you have a sorority sister or fraternity brother, they can put in a good word for you. But getting your foot in the door isn't a free pass. That's pretty much it.

The degree of seriousness is pretty funny. I hope you'll come back and read these posts in a few years when you're out working, paying down a mortage and living outside the college bubble.

I'd like to point out that you went to UCF.
You have absolutely no idea, getting into a good fraternity at our schools sets us up for life. It is serious and it is a damn country club. We play golf in the lawn if we're not out on the course and our parking lots are filled with Land Rovers and SUV's.

Mac' made up a very nice, informative list before.
B&T, can you do that?

And Brother Mac', you have have ID'ed the wrong poster for your comments.

Yes, I have identified the wrong poster for my comments........because she obviously has no idea what kind of oppurtunities you can get out of pledging a top tier Southern fraternity. But seeing as how she goes to UCF.......I guess I can see how she has been easily misinformed.

adpiucf.......its not our fraternity brothers that get us good connections....rather the Senators, House Reps, CEO's, Top 10 law firm partners, etc. etc. that we spend a good amount of time with. I can promise you it is a whole lot more than just putting in a good word. I really don't give a shit whether you think the degree of seriousness with which we take recruitment is funny or not......more than likely I will be more successful than you will ever dream of. In a few years when I look back on all of this....i'll sure as hell be thankful that I was given the chance to pledge the fraternity that I am in.

Back to topic please. Any more discussion on whether or not hazing is good will result in the end of this thread. In this thread, we discuss hazing and rush.

Thanks.

Really? I went to UCF? I didn't know that!

/Back to topic.

Hazing has no place in any group. Period.

Ok.......most pledges that you rushed really hard for a top house are going to know what they are getting into and what is expected of them. Most quality guys I know already know what house they were going to sign with out of high school. Obviously we will usually take a couple guys that we hadn't met before...so they might not know.

Explain please. Or are you one of those people that thinks hazing always involves dangerous and demeaning activities.

Mac -- true, the definition of "hazing" is different with almost every group. I'll bet there are things written into the official Sigma Nu pledge program which are forbidden by NPC hazing policies.

I got my congressional internship because of my fraternity, I got my two letters of recommendation for law school because of my fraternity...In turn, I've helped 2 fraternity brothers get internships in DC, I got another fraternity brother a legal assistant job...Its not the Skulls, its called networking. I bet they have that there...even at UCF...

Mac, Hazing is defined as:

Any action taken or situation created intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule.

There are ways to promote group bonding and ritualistic rites of passage without deviating from your organization's approved methods of membership education. Part of any GLO's membership education should include a workshop on hazing. Members should be secure enough in their decisions to extend bids to potential new members without resorting to putting their new members through unnecessary tests of their loyalty. There are other ways to promote all-chapter unity and to foster a sense of belonging.

If GLO's want to be taken seriously, they should not perpetuate stereotypes by hazing their members.

Hazing has no place in recruitment or within any organization. There are more constructive ways to foster unity.

Networking exists everywhere. You could have gotten those letters from non-Greeks, and you can network within any social outlet. Your GLO did not get you the job-- the network you cultivated has helped you get your foot in the door and YOU got yourself those jobs/opportunities because the employer was impressed by you. You'd have the same opportunities had you been active in Young Republicans, a pre-professional society, Student Alumni Ambassadors, etc. There's no mystery network within the Greek world-- people connecting people happens on all levels in all social organizations.

Mental discomfort? I get hazed every year by my law school during examinations by this definition. If we and our policies ever want to be taken seriously, we need to tighten down those definitions a little better.

When did I say anything we do caused mental, emotional, physical discomfort? Maybe you should check again. I experience mental discomfort watching Texas play college football. Maybe we should do away with the NCAA due to hazing national viewers. If you think that teaching our pledges to be accountable, loyal, and gentlemanly figures is unnecessary, then so be it. There is nothing wrong with the things that I have listed that we do...and I don't think anyone else on here is disagreeing with me either.

Our GLO's absolutely help us get jobs and increase our connections far more than other student activities.....this is a fact.....so, naturally, I disagree with your networking statement. I am also in College Republicans...it doesn't do a whole lot.

Sometimes GLO membership is very much like "The Skulls" and CAN carry you through a great deal of your life. It depends on where you are and who you know.

If you can't relate and it isn't that serious to you, that's fine, but what you drink doesn't have to make everyone else piss.

Hazing and rush is a boring topic which is why we've deviated from it.

I like this.

I'd recommend starting a thread covering a less boring topic then.

We already have the new discussion going, thanks.

I agree. I split the rest of the 'on topic' posts off of this into another thread and renamed this one. Enjoy.

This doesn't mean, however, that the fraternity is "good" because it hazes.

For instance, drowning rates increase in the summer months. Ice cream sales increase during the summer months. Therefore, ice cream must cause/contribute to drowning.

Just because a "top tier" fraternity hazes isn't what makes the fraternity "top tier". Chances are, said successful fraternity would be successful regardless of whether or not it hazes its pledges.

The fraternity is hard to get into because it has a good reputation. Since it has a good reputation, it has plenty of members. Since it has plenty of members, it attracts more aspirants than its less-successful counterparts. Since it attracts more aspirants, and since it has more members, it is therefore more difficult to get into than its less-successful counterparts. It doesn't follow that it is more difficult to get into due to hazing. If it does, I've missed something along the way somewhere.

So, I'd have to say that hazing is bad (just because that's my opinion, not because of anything I've actually posted confirming that belief), and doesn't make a "good" chapter good.

The right type of hazing absolutely makes your chapter better when what you are doing helps foster and bring about the things that I have mentioned.

If I were active in an org that hazed, and I thought that our org was better BECAUSE of the hazing, I'd wonder what's wrong with my org. Seriously.

I think I can understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like you're selling your fraternity short. If the fact that you haze improves your fraternity, then your fraternity needs some help. By that, I don't mean you need help in learning how to phase out hazing; I mean, you need help in selecting the right men, in cultivating the ideals shared by your founders, in building bonds based on mutual respect (and not on things like how well you clean the bathroom), etc...

Maybe I'm misreading your posts, but if I were a pledge in your org, and saw that you believed that because you can haze me our org is better than others, I'd think you wanted to be in a group only to exert your power over others instead of wanting to be there because of the friendships, networking, etc., involved.

I don't think females need hazing, so it would be hard for ya'll to understand what mac is talking about. The right type of hazing absolutely makes a better chapter. Don't listen to the garbage your GLO has been stuffing down your throat. How do you people know it doesn't work, if you weren't in a chapter that did it, or did it correctly?

I agree that everyone - males AND females - needs pledging.

Hazing is another story.