I have to agree. What are the benefits to not marrying? If anything, it makes a separation if the couple splits up even worse. You have a whole lot of legal issues it creates. If one partner dies, you have a huge mess.

If you have a kid involved, that complicates things so much more.

People who say "we don't need a piece of paper" tend to be the people who end up splitting up, lol. That's an empty, meaningless phrase. Trying so hard to "stick it to the man". You end up making your lives, and potentially your child's lives, a lot more complicated.

They actually have very little reason to be wed.

They own property together- 2 vehicles, a house with acreage, and a boat.
Insurance rates go way down when you have a kid.
They have power of attorney over the others health and monetary decisions if one should become unable to express their wishes.
As far as I know, they are on a group health insurance through his job.

How is that type of splitting up different than suing for a divorce?

kddani- Who said anything about "sticking it to the man?" They watched their parents "marriages" mean absolutely nothing, they don't see the need to apply that label to their relationship.

"Marriage is an institution. People who willingly enter into it, need one."

A lot of employers/insurance policies will not cover a partner that you're not married to. Your friend is lucky. And smart that they some legal documents in place. I hope that they have a very explicit will as well, because it has the potential to get very messy if one person dies. Not everyone bothers to get their legal bases covered. And if you're going to go through all of that work and legal expense to basically try to accomplish a marriage in every sense except the name, then what's the point? You're setting up your own "institution" that's no different, except it's called something else. A rose by any other name...

Being married, from a legal standpoint, can make a lot of difference.

No one here said anything about "sticking it to the man", but it's the attitude of people i've seen IRL that support not getting married.

I'm sorry that someone's parents' marriage meant nothing, but if they choose not to find other role models, that's their own fault. There are a lot of very happy married couples out there that have been together their entire life.

You potentially make life very difficult for your partner and/or child if you don't marry. It's an individual choice, but there are a lot of downsides to not marrying.

I can definitely see why lawyers would view state sponsored marriages as a good thing . . . . There can be quite a cash out.

I will say that marriage doesn't seem to beneit the member of the partnership that makes the most amount of money, and there can be an enormous economic loss if/when the marriage fails.

If you knew that 60 percent of planes crashed would you ride one?

But we do know that 60 percent of marriages fail (or something like that). So I think a lot of you are optimistic to the point of almost being foolish.

But God Bless you for it ::)

But does that mean that no one should enter into marriage at all? Does that mean someone shouldn't get married? I think there's also the danger of being too pessimistic, i.e. "Most marriages fail, so why should I even try?"

I think there's a lot to be said for taking extra time to think about it. My wife and I lived together for two years prior to marriage. I've heard of some couples living together for longer, and I've heard of engagements that run around 5 years.

For my wife and I, marriage has been great. I know other couples who never married and it worked out perfectly for them. I think that when you start making decisions based on the statistics (and the process), rather than your own feelings and relationship, that's when you get into trouble.

That said, some may call me a biased observer, but that's just my opinion.

Not true. Unless you have a prenup or something, there are no lawyers involved. If anything, lawyers (if you were to generalize) would be more in favor of people not getting married, because you need a lot more legal work done to get the same rights that you would have if you were married. Getting married saves a lot of those legal steps.

Exactly!!!
Fellow educated single mom.

Bobby, it don't matter.

CUZ THERE'S MOTHER EFFIN KTSNAKES ON THE PLANE!

I'M NOT YELLING, THIS IS JUST HOW I TALK!

Oops I forgot about you. :eek: :p

Re: Getting pregnant before marriage
 

Just because you come from a good family, does not mean that you won't get pregnant.

Just because you come from a good family, does not meant that you do not have SEX and WON'T get pregnant.

I think people are coming down on you so hard because the possible descriptions you gave of someone who had gotten pregnant (poor, trailer trash, ghetto, etc.)....

I grew up around people from good families and some of them got pregnant in high school or in college.

Educate thyself....PLEASE.:cool:

Add this to the long list of things you say that don't make sense and can't back up.

Oh by the way, until you got dumped by your fiance a few weeks ago, you didn't think marriage was obsolete.

-Rudey
--Time to go watch The View and sulk I suppose!

Re: Re: Getting pregnant before marriage
 

Well educated one, if you had the power to read (at least at the third grade level) you would know that I didn't say you wouldn't get pregnant if you came from a good family.

So if you or your friends are trailer trash, get knocked up, drop out of school, take a low paying job, and have to take psych meds for the rest of your lives, that's pretty much following the route with the highest probability.

I bet if someone cuts their mullet, their likelihood of impregnating a girl out of wedlock drops in half.

-Rudey

You do realize that your friends are the exception and not the rule, right?

Rudith, are you talking about Plan B? Because that's not so much available over the counter, THANKS FDA!

Also, the Madgdelene Sisters is the saddest movie ever.

I don't even know of that's true... It sounds like they spent a great deal of money to avoid being called "married" (as kddani pointed out earlier). Also, in the event of a divorce, there's a good chance that whichever one of them has the least money will be in a highly disadvantaged position.

They're throwing money away on taxes and insurance -- but hey, they're not married! That makes them smart and sophisticated and stuff.

What if they don't LOVE each other? There's a reason not to be wed - the most important one of all.

Why stay together if you don't love each other?

No I have difficulty finding it on the internet because I always forget the name. It's a med sold OTC to treat some other health problem that costs 5 bucks and can cause an abortion. There was a report a while back about how if even every law protecting abortion was repealed, it's progressed too far along in terms of technology to stop it anymore. I posted it on here once before when i was able to find it on google somewhere in the news & politics forum.

I saw the magdalene sisters on a date. I was so upset afterwards. It's more upsetting than just sad. For sad watch the movie "The Sea Inside".

-Rudey

What Munchkin said. I'd rather see two happy parents apart and with other people who they love acting as positive role models for the kids than to be leading what must be an incredibly odd life with someone who you don't care about.

kstar's hypo makes me tend to believe that these are two people who love eachother very much, but have some major issues when it comes to being called "married."

I really just can't even imagine. I see the worst of the worst when it comes to divorce where I'm working and where I'll be working after I finish school. Even seeing what I see -- which can be pretty depressing sometimes, I understand that marriage is a good thing if it is something that both are willing to work for. I'm almost lucky to be where I'm at, I get lessons every day as to what "not" to do in a marriage.

-- Apparently, cheating on your spouse is a bad thing.. who knew?

Hey people, Macaulay Culkin's parents didn't get married and loved each other. It worked out well.

-Rudey

I know if I was going to make an argument about marriage, Macaulay Culkin would be the first person I turn to for an example.:p

I really think that's the crux of it. (I love the word "crux" and am really glad I had a chance to use it.) Some people have such a huge, giant psychological hangup that marriage = lifetime of hell, that no matter what, if they got married it would tank. And no, I don't know any of those people, I didn't date them for umpteen years or anything, thanks for asking.

See, kstar? Your friends are dooming their children to a life of being raped by Michael Jackson . . . and no amount of quasi-marital counseling can help that - it's a fact!

Re: Re: Re: Getting pregnant before marriage
 

You said 'IF' so, there is no need for me to get offended by anything you just said.

I apologize for not reading everything you said. But, you did come off as IGNORANT in the beginning and I do hope you realize that.:cool: If you don't, I feel sorry for YOU and your CHILDREN.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting pregnant before marriage
 

You're from Tennessee. I can understand you'd be around a lot of drop-out mothers that live in trailer parks, with low paying jobs, that take xanax so you'd see things differently.

-Rudey

My husbands cousin J was just out of HS going to college to study aero engineering and he came home that fall in Sept to see his family and gf and ended up getting her pregnant. Their family is VERY wealthyand very respected in the community and they were VERY mad.

I can't speak for the gf at all because I like her alot, but a lot of the family say she did it on purpose because she didnt like to take birth control. They said she did it because she was still at home taking classes at the community college while the bf was 6 hours away at college, enjoying life and she wanted to keep him so she got pregnant. My hubbys sister thought for a while the baby wasnt even their cousins.

Lets say this all happened last year, well two Septs ago because the baby will be 1 this August and they LOVE that baby to pieces. I will say it screwed up everything. She is adorable and everyone now loves her and its not her fault, but the gf made the cousin feel so bad and he was so upset about the situation he failed all this classes because he couldnt concentrate and missed his finals and ended up moving back home to his parents. Now he works full time and takes classes at the community college and is taking care of the baby and his gf. The gf dropped out of school and doesnt work.

Her family all got pregnant before they were out of HS so I think she thought thats what its suppose to be like. She had a friend that had that happen to their senior year and she kept saying to her bf I want a baby.....

I honestly think if he would have stayed at college and didnt get pregnant, they wouldnt be together still... I feel for them and I love the both and the baby, but it messed their whole future up because of it. I just hope they both make something out of the situation. She is talking marriage now.....

I think it is totally fine to have a baby but not be married. While I only know of my hubbys cousin that this happened to, I think its fine if you are a adult and love someone and get pregnant. I think if you can afford it and know the responsibility, more power to you.... People have babies without a partner even so its fine... I think if you are still young it may be a problem because you get into something you may not be ready for. Thats a chance you take when you have sex though.

Every situation is different. I think its fine. I know the religion I was rasied in says you shouldnt even have sex before marriage so that is their views, but everyone should be allowed to live their lives how they want to. :)

How exactly does this work?? It's not ok when the girl is pregnant, but after she has the baby, it's all fine??

ETA: Ok, it now makes more sense.

I just found an article discussing the drop in teen pregnancy. It's interesting to say the least;) :

MSN Article

The best part:
"Since one man's sperm rarely has to race that of another man to the finish, things like speed and volume are less important in human sperm than in other animals, permitting a certain amount of atrophy among humans. "

This is why it is so important for us as women to have sex with as many men as possible. It is a service we can provide that benefits all of humanity. Step up that sperm, boys!

So what you're saying is that she had the baby to hold on to a boy she really liked. That's extremely selfish. It's unbelieveable that someone would bring another human being into the world for such a reason, but I know it happens all of the time.

Its the truth. As much as she wont come out and say it, it is. She told me over christmas she is going to get him to marry her. She said there is no way they will be apart. Strange but true how some people think.

Rudey,

I am still trying to understand why you are worried about "trashy trailer" monkey wrench hoes down in Souf Centrow when you'd never date that kind of woman in the first place?

I guess I'm a little lost on the concept?



The other issue is why sleep with an a$$wipe luser and have his baby when you know you all ain't gonna be together?

But a young lady explained to me that many times, a fool "entices" a woman with "little self-esteem" at first. Wham bam thank you ma'am, then loves and leaves her... Then 9 months later, a baby comes home... The love between mother and baby is so powerful that mother's instinct automatically turns on and propelling the woman to all that she can do to ensure survival of her offspring, no matter what it takes... Unless she's a drug addict. Then that's another case...

But smart women get pregnant all the time... That's how a lot of my over 30 year old friends got their man to marry them...

And Ktsnake, I do find it rather selfish on behalf of some of these women...

But there are just reams and reams of other peoples situations that go beyond comprehension.

Is marriage obsolete? I don't think so. Is it fashionable? Hayle no. It is very hard work and kids today do not want to take that kinna time to make it work. So it makes it luxury in the end.

I almost nearing my 3 year anniversary... No kids - different story on that one.

But all I can say is that I've learn about myself more than anything else over these past 3 years.

I have to say I think it (getting pregnant before marriage) can be attibuted to how you were raised.

A friend of mine, from elementary school, barely graduated high school. She wasn't encouraged to go to college. Her whole goal in life was to get married and have lots of babies. This is because that is what her parents did. They got married young and immediately got pregnant. She knew no better (and now she is reeping the difficulties of her choices).

Plus, if you're mom was a teen (or unmarried) and all your sisters (cousins, female relatives) did the same thing, chances are you are going to follow in the same path, because that's all you know. You only know having kids when your young or unmarried.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

So as Rudey would have said -- trailer trash?

Quote:

A friend of mine, from elementary school, barely graduated high school. She wasn't encouraged to go to college. Her whole goal in life was to get married and have lots of babies. This is because that is what her parents did. They got married young and immediately got pregnant. She knew no better (and now she is reeping the difficulties of her choices).

That pretty much reinforces my assumption.



That certainly doesn't make it any more right or less selfish. One cannot blame their own choices on the choices their parents made. Does it take a heck of a lot of book smarts to come to the conclusion that babies are hard work, they cost a lot of money, and there's no way in Hades that a baby will ever make a relationship work.

I mentioned above that I'm working while in law school in a firm that handles a lot of these family cases. I could give tell some amazing stories of how these trailer trashers work the DHS system, WIC, TANF, etc. They have these kids so that they can sit on the couch all day eating bon bons paid for by you, me, and daddy's child support payments.

-- and don't screw with their custody situation, or they'll go find the baddest public defender money can't by and put daddy even further into debt because he actually has a j-o-b and can't get a free lawyer.

One such 'lil mama we're working with has been pregnant, or trying to get that way since HS. Has one child with our client, and is working on another. The girl's about 18...

Oh, and her new hubby has been accused (not convicted) of child molestation several times. Her pro-bono lawyers have been filing all kinds of BS because they know dad (who does manual labor for a living and is borrowing a load of money to do this) is going to tap out eventually.

It's pretty sad stuff what these women get away with.

Well Monet, I don't want a girl putting pinholes in my condoms you know?

And what if my buddy brings around a girl like that to my wine and cheese black tie affairs? I'd be mortified because if I wanted to sleep with my buddy's girl, all I'd have to choose from is trailer trash at that point :(

-Rudey

Dude!

You admit to inviting hoes to your kinna parties? You pimping it like that?

I mean, if you tryin' to be the playa pimp, you'd be slappin' a ho... 'Cuz that's the only thing these biatches understand... There ain't no such thing as a "good girl ho"... Once a ho, always a ho...

There ain't no mortification with hoes showin' up, they know what they gotta do when you allow them to be on the track...

YOU.ARE.SO.GANSTA!!!!!!

Being bilingual is the best.:D

I'll keep it brief, since everybody else wrote novels and I can't seem to finish them all.

No, getting pregnant before marriage doesn't make you trashy. I don't believe anyone should have sex before they are married, but going against that doesn't make you some horrible trailer trash. I don't think getting pregnant is the issue, it's pre-marital sex period. Why blast the ones who get pregnant? For every girl who gets pregnant before she's married, there are 49 more who did the same deed, but their stomachs are still flat, so they got away with it.

Because the majority of people who visit this message board very likely don't agree with your viewpoint.