By saying that "you could stop on on the street" I was referring to those with letters on. I thought it was implied.


Sorry for the misunderstanding,


M

Well, I could go "Hey you're in XYZ right? I saw your letters!" But my point still stands, that it's an issue of familiarity, not lack of national reputation

possibly, Great point


I have had people come up to me generally to tell me about projects we have done. The experiences of others may be different.

To my knowledge (and I am not an NPHCer so I could be wrong so feel free to correct me) but they don't "market" to high school students either". They DO have auxiliary groups that serve the needs of teens in their respective communities, i.e. tutoring, mentoring, etc., as well as other philanthropies and community services. They have a HIGH level of visibility in their communities due to their HIGH level of active involvment in/with their organizations and communities.

edit (because I hit the submit button too soon): Thus a large portion of the community outside of greeks or those that know greeks, both younger and older, tend to know more about the organizations even though they may have never stepped foot on a college campus.

You are correct.

What I think is odd is that I do probably know more about NPHC groups than NPC groups, and before I came to college I didn't know that NPHC groups existed (I am from one of the whitest placest ever). Maybe because I didn't go to rush, I don't know. But it seems so much more a part of general culture to know about NPHC, even if you aren't in the orgs, that I absorbed a lot of that info, whereas with the NPCs, even hanging around with NPC people, there is still a lot that I don't know. Trying to learn more, though - it's really interesting.

That's why I put "market" in quotes. Several people had said they were aware of NPHC groups because of activities in high school and such. NPC groups may work with kids as part of their philanthropy, but it the focus is in a different area. I don't think that NPC groups would be allowed to have auxilary groups focused on high school students. Not outside of philanthropy I mean. I think a lot of it comes to the way we each look for new members. The structure of NPC pretty much prohibits that sort of in depth interaction with high schoolers, unless everyone did it. NPHC recruiting (at least as it seems to me) is focused on only one group instead of all of them.

I hope I make sense... I don't mean that any of the D9 are out there flaunting it to high school students, just that by their nature they have the ability to work more with them... or something.... yeah. :cool:

And I suspect that this is the difference between being black and being white at a college campus. Like I said, I'm not aware of it, because I don't have a single friend in one of the NPHC groups. I suspect the fact that they are forced to be mostly off campus is the major reason for this. If they were on campus I'd see more than the occasional flier.

This may come down to the self-segregating tendancy that everyone has. This is an issue that goes beyond Greek Life and everything but may explain why non-black students are more in the dark about NPHC and why, especially on campuses where NPC is seen as "white-only" (I know it's not, but we all know the perception exists and is perpetuated by people on both sides), non-white people are more in the dark about NPHC and MCGLOs.

The fact that NPHC orgs aren't recognized by a lot of campuses may have something to do with it.

Define "a lot of campuses" please.

This is just my opinion and also a perspective of someone who “grew up in both worlds”…this is going to be long so bear with me please…..

My Background – brief

Now I will be honest with you, when I first went into sorority rush, I was a tiny bit informed, but looking back, I was completely clueless. I thought all sororities held recruitment at the same time, not from the same pool perhaps but at the same time…meaning both NPC & NPHC…now a little background to get a better feel from where I am coming from…

I didn’t learn about black colleges and black greek like until I was very “old”, perhaps 14/15. One of my fathers friends came to the house, see I knew back then that I wanted to be in a sorority, I just didn’t know which one, I really didn’t know all that much about NPC, NIC, NPHC and I will be honest most of my information came from the TV/Movies. I would hope that most of the ladies in my age group (30s) who did not grow up around greeklife can understand where I am coming…Anyway, like I said, I told this lady that I wanted to be in a sorority, a whole new world opened up for me when I learned that there were black sororities….she then proceeded to tell me about AKA, DST, ZPhiB and SGRho, now to be honest with you, I think she only mentioned (or at least I can only remember) her speaking only about AKA and DST…she told me right away that I am DST material (even though I won’t repeat it, she was going of the stereotypes that existed at the time) she told me that there was no way in hell that AKA would consider me. I can’t say I had a reaction to this; it was just a piece of information to me, not good/not bad. Now all through this I think I knew that my uncle was in a fraternity, but didn’t become conscious of it until I got older and began to understand that that really meant, also driving by the house every so often “solidified” the knowledge. My uncle, cousin and step-father are KAPsi…they have not stayed active, but are very proud Kappa’s nonetheless.

When I got to ASU I went through rush, blah, blah, blah….During my first weeks during school I still saw nothing of the NPHC Greek, I gradually saw shirts for AKA and APhiA, but by then I was very happy where I was.

So back to the original question of perspective: The segment of community that I grew up in…Black Greeks were not prevalent, that is not to say that they were not there…because that would just be silly…just not as noticeable that it may seem, it just depends on the segment of the community you are speaking about and how involved with the organization and community service projects of that segment. (I hope that makes sense). I can name off colors and mascots, and maybe 1 or 2 service projects that the NPHC are involved with on the national level, this is because I am not involved in NPHC world.

Now I can rattle off colors, mascots and philanthropies of most all NPCs without breaking a sweat.

So it really just depends on the segment of the community and how involved you are in that community, so that you can have some type of “national” awareness of a particular conference or organization.

No one org is better than the other…no one conference/council is better than the other….neither has more or less national presence than the other….it all depends on the environment that grew up in and the path that you choose when you make the decision to become involved in a greek letter organization.

I will admit that in the NPHC world it does appear to be "all for one & one for all"...but I also think that is because there are 9 groups in that council...whereas 26 groups in the NPC and 60ish groups in the NIC

I'm not black. I practically glow in the dark ...

What is Omega Phi Alpha?

And why does it spell Alpha Phi Omega backwards? I just realized that.

-Rudey

It's a service sorority. I think it was inspired, at least, by Alpha Phi Omega.

Cosign on Jubilance1922:
Please define a lot of campus!

I suspect that NPHC groups are just more interesting to you on some level so you just pick up on the NPHC stuff faster. Personally, I know I oftern went out of my way to avoid discussing NPC greek life with non members because I felt like I was boring them. Maybe your NPC friends feel similarly? Have you ever asked your NPC friends to talk to you about their experiences?

Also, I think it really depends on the campus. You feel it's much more of the culutre to know about NPHC, I'd disagree with that based on my personal experiences. (I attended a school with a huge population but very few black students.) I was shocked when I learned that there were members of DST at my school. I was excited to learn they were there, but my reaction could be summed up as "where have they been hiding?". ((hijack. My junior high pe teacher used to wear her DSQ track suit to school. I believe it was the first set of greek letters I had seen in real life. /hijack))

To help Rudey out:

www.omegaphialpha.org

And yes, we were inspired by APO!:D

They have a HIGH level of visibility and a HIGH level of involvement in their comunities because that's the POINT of their organizations. As far as I know, NONE of the NPHC groups were founded as SOCIAL organizations. They were all meant to better the BLACK community. Whereas my NPC sorority was founded because there were five lonely woman all alone at an all male school and they needed the social connection with other women. NPCs always were philanthropic but it had way more to do with the expectations of their place in society and their religion that about "lifting up" the community.

That is NOT true. Just as your founders were lonely women, my founders were 7 Black women in Indiana (home of the KKK at the time) trying to educate themselves at a school that didn't want them.

All the NPHC have a social component to them and their foundings. But it is not the SOLE purpose of their foundings, as you have stated.

Alpha Phi Omega hasn't always been coed :)

Nu Chapter's website has lots of info: www.cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/opa/

People are getting worked up because your not being clear. I even asked, very clearly, that if you are not refering to stereotypes to please give examples of each NPHC group's personality.

{sidebar: Just to note. I'm not taking your questions and comments as degrading. I honestly get the feeling that you're trying to get an uderstanding to something that you can't express clearly. Everyone's got to keep in mind that on a MB we read our own thoughts and emotions into other peoples posts. /sidebar}

If I'm reading this correctly, you feel that the NPHC as a whole has a stronger national presence that the NPC. Am I close? Not that, for example, DST has a clearer national personality that KKG.

If that's what you're implying, I think I'd agree. As we touched on earlier the NPHC is more involved in the entire community, from auxillory (sp?) groups to the actual chapters. NPC does have groups that are involved with young children (ie KD and Girl Scouts and KAT and CASA) but as a whole the NPC does not make an effort to be a backbone of the community (which is the way NPHC comes across to me). NPC would probably interpret one of our groups working closely with high school girls as a recruitment violation. Unfair advantage.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that there was zero social motivation. Just that the community service was a MUCH bigger factor.

just fyi: my founders weren't really wanted at their school either.

I know that my situation in Saint Louis is not unique. Many schools do not recognize NPHC organizations and instead city-wide chapters are common. I am not maintaining that this is the case the majority of the time, just that it is not uncommon. For St. Louis to have city wide chapter that means, St. Louis U, Wash U, Fontbonne, Webster, and several other schools don't formally recognize the chapter as a campus organization.

This isn't a dig at the NPHC at all. Perhaps someone else can provide more detail, but some schools consider the NPHC organizations to be discriminatory because they only accept black men and women. (NOTE: I know this is not always or even necessarily often the case, but I've seen topics here where NPHC members openly question the sense of having white people as their sorors. I'm not judging this one way or the other, just commenting)

Precisely my point! :)

This threw me for a loop. It's a lot easier for who to keep 4 straight than 6. I thought we were talking about the individual member orgs, not the councils themselves. The councils were used to referenc which orgs. to which we were referring. For example, DST's national personality v. ZPhiB's national personality. One is different from the other, but standardized within that org.

*hijack* YAY for Alpha Omega Citywide chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated! :D btw, there used to be a campus based chapter at UMSL, but because of low numbers it eventually merged with Alpha Omega. *end of hijack*

LOL
You know, I haven't seen them on SLU's campus. I know AKA is at least somewhat affiliated with Harris Stowe (they started here when it was Stowe Teacher's College) but SLU does not formally recognize any of them.

Delta does not have auxilary groups. We have national programs implemented on the chapter level that serve youth and teens, e.g. Betty Shabazz Delta Academy, Delta GEMS, Debutante Balls, etc. But these are not recruiting efforts, they are community service efforts. And they are implemented by alumnae chapters as well as collegiate chapters.

We are prohibited from having high school interest groups.

Delta actually has more campus-based collegiate chapters than citywide. Sometime we choose to be city wide because the individual schools in a community have low percentages of Black enrollments, so to maintain a viable chapter we wish to pull from all of the schools in a city. It is that way here in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

In other cases the school will not allow additional GLOs on campus so then we go the city wide route.

And finally, sometimes we just don't want to be bound to a specific campus, because of the restrictions they may put on us.

In St. Louis, Alpha Omega began as a campus-based chapter at Harris/Stowe (as you said then Stowe Teachers College.) However, it changed its designation to citywide to be able to accomodate Wash U., SLU, etc. that did not have a critical mass of Black women from which to form a chapter. And I already mentioned UMSL and the now-defunct Eta Pi chapter.

Lastly, we also have core chapters that are based at a specific campus, but are allowed to recruit from nearby campuses. In these cases approval is required from all of the schools involved.

I guess the clarification is that SLU wouldn't approve such a relationship, while Wash U has a Black Greek Council to help WashU students of NPHC chapters... I'm not trying to make any claim that it is happens the majority of the time, but I do know that not all schools will deal with the NPHC because they consider them discriminatory.

Could SLU support an NPHC chapter or two? Maybe one fraternity and one sorority, but more options are available with the city-wide chapters. Instead of one or two, nine or more are available.

(SLU does have many multicultural orgs (Black STudent Assoc, Hispanic And Latino Org (oy I think), ASIA, etc. just no MCGLOs or NPHC orgs)

We have this in SC for undergrads. Spartanburg City-wide chapter has Wofford, USC-Upstate (formally USC Spartanburg), Converse College (an all women's school) and Furman (in Greenville). Also the chapter at Allen University in Columbia also take members from Columbia College (another all women's school). Most of the other undergrad schools (ex. Carolina, Clemson, C of C) have individual chapters.

For the last time, I'd like to point out that NPHC orgs DO NOT DISCRIMINATE and anyone that says we do is WRONG! All of our orgs have non-discrimination clauses. I know many NPHC greeks that aren't Black, so obviously we don't discriminate.

Please don't perpetuate something that isn't true. Its annoying and degrading.

And do you know for a FACT that SLU doesn't allow NPHC because of discrimination, or was that something that someone told you? My sorority has separate chapters at Harris-Stowe and UMSL, as well as SLU (though I don't know if its active).

In general, its probably a better idea to let NPHC greeks speak on NPHC matters, since we are directly involved. That way false information isn't given.

I know that NPHC does not discriminate. I never said that it did and I tried to make that very very clear. I can tell you that there are NO NPHC orgs on campus as campus orgs. And that SLU has not allowed them in the past, and does not now.

This was explained to us NPC people at one point, now, it could a)been explained by the Greek Advisor wrong, or b) have changed since then.

This was never an attack on NPHC orgs, simply an attempt at explaining why I am so unfamiliar with them, and so would other people on my campus, because there is much less of a presence here.

Well at some point SLU DID allow NPHC orgs, because my sorority has a chapter chartered there (Alpha Psi for those that were wondering). I'm curious to find out the situation at SLU from an administrator.

And btw, you said:

That's why I responded about the discrimination clauses. You did mention it, and its false, so I wanted to put the correct information out.

Jump on who? Maybe things shouldn't be taken so personally. Trust me, I can be a lot meaner, but I wasn't.

As someone who was active in a city-wide chapter I have struggled with my feelings on them. I can understand it in instances where there are campuses that can't sustain a chapter but in large cities (Chicago) I think they can make life difficult. Each university has its own policies about events/funding/maintaining a presence on campus and it can be a big headache.

Jubilance,
Is your collegiate chapter citywide, or campus based at the U? Nu Epsilon is citywide, but recognized at the U as a student org, thus they are able to use the facilities, etc.

My chapter is campus based. With all the colleges in the Twin Cities, I can definately see the advantages of having a city wide chapter.

I know I said that the school considered it so, I also tried to establish many a time that I know that this isn't the case, at the same time I've seen discussions on here where NPHC members said that they weren't sure they'd be ok with a white person joining and that though they'd never met a white soror if they did, they'd want to question them or wouldn't consider them truly part of the sorority. This is individual and not institutional but obviously discrimination still exists in every facet of life, sadly sometimes even in Greek Life.

anything pop off?