Or UBC. But we're in Canada, and you know Canadians are just... weird that way.

I can only speak for myself but when I hear/read NPC sororities referred to as white or historically white I feel like a person might as well say I'm a racist and member of the KKK. :( Yes, there was a time when the NPC sororities were all white. It's a fact.

Why? No one has said you (White people in general) are racist. Don't feel bad or guilty because of who you are. I don't. There are Black people who I feel do not represent Blacks well, such as the welfare moms and a few of the 'gangsta' rappers, but I am not any less proud to be Black, or Negro, as it says on my birth certificate, because of them.

As you point out, your alma mater was all male and white until 1965. Do you tell people that you went to a white college or historically white male college? Or do you just tell people that you went to college? I'll guess that you don't feel compelled to clarify that a college is "white" but I do understand the reasoning behind saying a college or GLO is historically black. Much like if I had attended an all women college I would likely point that out because it would be a different experience than a co-ed school.

Yes, I do. TAMU is a PWI - predominately White institute.

In regards to Barbara Delany, as my sister has already pointed out nobody was initiated in 1956. I checked and there was no Barabara initiated in 1955 but two in 1954 (maiden names Brodie and Ries).

The quote from Mr. Graham's book doesn't actually say that she was initiated. It saddens me to think that this could be true. However, I also take into account that the mid 50s was not the age on enlightenment and that greek men and women have never been considered to be "ahead of their time" when it comes to accepting anything outside of the socially accepted norm. I feel pity for the women that made the decision to close that chapter, assuming that was the real reason behind the closing. For all I know the chapter was well below total and could have been on the brink of having the charter pulled before the members decided to bid Ms. Delany.

Right, as I understood the passage, she was never initiated because the chapter was closed. Only SK national can answer that.

I emailed HQ & they haven't responded. I did contact one of the alumna initiated in 1955 & she did confirm that Barbara Collier Delany was never initiated.

Serious over generalization.

This is the same as saying that all sorority girls are blonde bimbos.

Unless you have been to every chapter of every NPC org and interviewed every single member to identify their ethinic heritage, there is no base for the statement.

I think you are alluding to a good point here, soror.

Its acceptable in our society to be proud of being Black, Latino, Asian, and Native American, but being proud of being White is considered racism. Why?

I can be proud of my heritage and the accomplishments of my people without saying that I'm SUPERIOR to other races.

I think it has to do with what "white" means in the first place. The entire history of whiteness is completely wrapped up in superiority and power issues - you can't really separate it from that. I don't want to go off on a complete tangent here, but people didn't used to be "white", they used to be different nationalities like English or French or Irish or whatever else - whiteness is something that has developed over time to distinguish who is "in" and who is "out", who is the "other", the non-white, and who gets to be in what club has changed over time completely based on power struggles (check out the Irish, for example). You can't ignore that history - "white pride" is inherently racist. You want to see people proud of being white? Check this out: www.natvan.com If you are white and want to be proud of something, be proud of family or national history and accomplishments - but don't get all puffed up over your skin color, it's a bunch of sh*t.

Edited to fix the URL so it works now ... oops.

rocket girl...i do like the firt part of your post. i have a BA in history and the reason i have a pet peeve about being called a white sorority is because there were few, if any, women of color in college at the time of many of our foundings. hell, there were not too many women.

i don't really think most of our founders set out to form a white girl's sorority. that was just the environment they were in - all white colleges. it's hard to say how our sororities would look if society had more integrated in the late 1800's and early 1900's.

I guess what this boils down to is that when people say NPC orgs are historically white, that it sounds like we did that on purpose and we all had a "white clause" in our membership requirements (i'm sure some did). some of that is also a product of the times that those women lived in and that does not reflect how we evolved into what we are now. it makes it sounds like our founders are being blamed for not including minorities or that they are being called racist. i don't know if all of that makes sense or not.

on another point.....there are chapters around the country that have a majority of minority members b/c i work at one of those campuses. the campus is about 60% hispanic and about 80% of the chapter memberships are minority. at my previous campus (also where my chapter is) my chapter is about 50% minority and they are very proud of the fact that anyone can find a home there.

i know these campuses are usually not the norm and there are many campuses with old greek systems where whites join NPC sororities, blacks join NPHC, latinas join a NALFO and so forth. again, i think you have to look at the history of the campus and see how far that goes back. we all know how hard it is to change "tradition" and the attitude of the entire campus, including that of all the alumni, would need to change in order for that to change. it's just not appropriate to say that blacks can't join an NPC sorority on those campuses and put the blame on the NPC sororities when that view can come just as much from the black students who are telling each other that they can't join an NPC or that they will be seen as a traitor to their race if they do join.

it's just too easy to say"they don't want us," whether "us" refers to your race or religion or whatever. there are just too many other factors that come into play and to blame it on just one thing is silly.

wow, that's a lot of thinking for the morning. i hope that actually makes sense. :)

I'm white. I can't say I'm proud to be German, Welch, Irish, Checz, Bohemian, etc...because I'm not enough of any of them (My highest percentage is 3/8) to be proud of my "national history". I am a true White AngloSaxon Prodestant mutt. Can I not be proud to be white then? I can't exactly be called racist, being that my husband is Mexican, and my daughter is half Mexican. I am proud of myself as white, my husband as Mexican, and my daughter as Mestizo. And yes, I can seperate my whiteness from superiority and power.

I like how you said this. I was trying to formulate a response and it wasn't working.

The reality is that I am a white American. I have Irish, Scottish and English heritage. While I did spend 6 months living there, I'm hardly British or Irish, I really am just a white American. I'm not evil, I don't think whites should rule the world, nor do I think it should be ruled by Asians, Blacks or Latinos. This country focus' on race so much we forget that there are VERY few people who are of one ethinic orgin. People travel, they have sex. That is how the world works.

OPhiARen3- when you tell people they can't be proud of being 'white' because it is inherently racisit, at a level you are telling people to deny who they are. You identify me as white, I identify me as white, but you just said white is bad. That frustrates me. Why can't we embrace ourselves and accept each other?

This post is extremely offensive. I am white, and my familiy's history has zero superiority or power in it. My Irish family starved at the hands of the English, was persecuted for their religious beliefs, and ultimately had little choice but to leave their beloved native land. My German family came here during the rise of Nazism, and my Grandmother spoke of having nothing to eat but old bread spread with lard.

Yes, whites do come from a variety of different nationalities, but so do black people. I have several friends who are from Nigeria, another from Uganda, and yet another from St. Lucia. Their family histories are completely different. To lump them all together by skin color would be ignorant.

Also, I couldn't get that link to work, so if I misinterpreted your post by missing what you linked, I apologize,.

I wonder if I'm the only one who sees that you actually agreed with what she said.

In your case, it's not your whiteness that you are proud of, it is your family and their accomplishments -- as she said.

I'm not reading through all of this so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything but...
 

it saddens me that this issue of race and class in this country has gotten so bad that White/Caucasian people can't even express a love and honor of their race without being labled racist.

TO HAVE PRIDE IN YOUR RACE IS NOT HATING ALL OTHER RACES:mad: Just except the fact that some of your ancestors *ucked up. Hell, we all gots peeps in our history that wasn't quite right, ya know. But it was your/our ANCESTORS that did it...forgive, just don't forget so we won't have any repeats. Also, change the way it is today.

************************************************** **
okay rant over, whew:)

I said all of this to say, if your org is historically white, be historically white. It seems like you all are trying to downplay that fact because of the reason your org was historically white, mainly it's exclusionary policies. Most of these policies had to do with the time period in which they were formed and most were just plain racism, but whatever the reason saying it's historically white shouldn't be a point of shame.

DEAL WITH IT, BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT!

ok now I'm done:p

In the beginning of her post she states that the entire history of whiteness cannot be separated from superiority and power. That is untrue, and that is what I took issue with.

She then implies that when white nationalities are lumped together it becomes a source of shame. I replied that people don't seem to have a problem lumping together people of different backgrounds who are black.

An observation as I have seen several instances of this in this thread:

When you use black (to designate a group) then you use white (to designate a group) -- when you use African American (to designate a group) then you use Caucasian (to designate a group). You should not say African American for one & White for another in designation, nor should you say Caucasian for one & Black for another in designation.

As for the posts - this is as usual the ridiculous train wreck that always follows any topic where skin color is brought up. I am seriously WTH?! :confused: that people believe someone can not separate the color of their skin from the need to have power & dominate others. Also, as for the % of minorities in GLO's - any GLO - that is not controlled by the GLO itself. You cannot make people of certain heritage, skin color, sexual preference, what have you sign up to join an organization. The people that come & express interest, are the ones from which the members make their selection. You can't offer someone an invitation who hasn't come to any events or shown interest in the group. We are not all blonde haired & blue eyed - there are all different people in every GLO - different races, creeds, religions, sexual orientations, etc. etc. Why does skin color become the only litmus test for the diversity of an organization?

OTW - we need avatars so you can post a picture of your FEMALE NON-WHITE self beside every post!!

I don't think, looking at the development of whiteness and the priviledge that is associated with it, that it is something that should be embraced. I honestly feel that the world would be a better place if we could all just move past whiteness. I'm not saying that's the easiest thing to do, and I certainly don't have an easy answer of how to do it, but it's how I feel and it's something that I am committed to.

Race isn't inherent; it's a social construct. As the people who make up society, we do play some role in choosing to continue or discontinue racial ideologies. If we can deconstruct white, that would be the first step toward breaking down so many barriers. Society defines me as white, and therefore associates me with certain behaviors, etc. - that doesn't mean that I have to think of myself that way. People assume that they can say certain things around me, do certain things around me, whatever, because I have pale skin - but I don't have to go along with that, and I can choose to break those expectations. Those are the kinds of things I am talking about.

I don't know how much sense all that made, and I know this has gotten so horribly off topic ... if anyone really wants to talk more about this kind of stuff, it'd probably be better if you PM'd me, I don't know if the whole board wants to hear me go on about it (these are the things I focus on in school ...).

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't know when to use the term "African-American" or when to use the term "black." Most of my friends who have black skin are not African Americans, and do not like being called that. They describe themselves as "black." I guess other people must take offense to the description "black" - I don't know - just an observation.

no, it seemed the same to me.

Maybe I misread what OPhiARen3 was saying, but I didn't take her to mean telling people to deny who they are at all. I read her as saying be proud of who you are.

I think she was trying to say this (she can certainly correct me if I'm wrong): historically the label white (or "white race"): has had no real meaning except "not black, aboriginal, etc." Basically, describing someone as "white" necessarily described them by saying what they weren't. I think she was saying that pride comes from heritage, not just from pigmintation. "Whites" cover a whole range of very different ethnicities -- Italian, Irish, Norwegian, historically Northen African and Middle Eastern and on and on and on. I think she was saying be proud of who you are and where you came from, but that "white" didn't necessarily describe that.

I think it can be a bit more nuanced, though. Race may indeed be a social construct, but social constructs can take on a reality. Like "white," "black" describes people of various ethnicities, but who, for the most part, share a common historical experience in this country. That shared historical experience gives some meaning to being "black" in this country that transcends whether one's ancestors came from Nigeria or Uganda. In some cases, this may be true of "whites" as well. I am a Southern white man, and I think that may give rise to a common historical experience that is not limited to nation of origin. The same may well be true elsewhere.

So what would I say? I am very proud of my Scottish, English, Welsh, Cornish, Dutch and Huguenaut heritage. I don't think of myself as being proud of being white. I'm not ashamed of it, I don't deny it -- it just seems to me like being proud of having green eyes.

But yet I am proud of being a Southern white, because the experience, good and bad, of being a white person in the South is part of who I am. I fully recognize the baggage that carries and what some, including some of my ancestors did. But while I don't deny history, I don't deny my pride either, because that is part of who I am. Does the distinction make any sense?

But, and this is a big but . . . I would be very careful of how I express that pride, if for no other reason than the phrase "white pride" carries connotations of the Klan and of Nazism with which I definitely do not want to be associated.

All hail the Sinfonian.

Seriously, this is why I love Phi Mu Alpha!

I had to stop you there.
IT SAYS NEGRO ON YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE:eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:

Agreed. I do not deny that, according to sociohistorical norms, I am white. I fully accept my history and all of the implications of my skin color. But I refuse to act on my skin color and try to refuse to the privileges of that I get for it when I can.

YES!!!!

For the box where it says 'Race, Mother' my mother is classified as Negro. For the box where it says 'Race, Father' my father is classified as Negro. For the box where it says 'Race, Child' I am classified as Negro.

For my granparents, they were classified as 'Colored'.

My maternal grandfather attended Colored High School of Houston in the 19-teens.

I am so sorry... I will write more, but I am so sorry.

You never know what can of worms you're opening when you start a thread.

don't be sorry. this thread has been interesting.

alphafrog is right. you can never predict what will happen and you didn't do anything on purpose to provoke this. you asked an honest question and it went off on a tangent. :)

I really don't understand ...I am american... yes I my skin is white with reddish undertones... I have blue eyes.... I have reddish blonde hair... I am short.... I have Irish, English, Polish, and Native American ancestors. I am female.
These are just ways to identify oneself based on phsyical characteristics.
In history people have done horrible things to each other, People today do horrible things to each other. Genocide, ethnocism, rape... all in the name of religion, racial issues, money etc. In the future I have no doubt that people will continue to be awful to each. But may one day we will have a civilization where everyone is fairly treated, but I doubt it.
I am not responsible for anything that has happened in the past, its a matter of fact. Of course the facts are always colored by who won the battle/war, but that is another topic.
Do I have white pride? No not really... it's just the color of my skin. It's not something that I control, but I do understand that it my influence how people interact in the world.

Sorry - I wasn't stating that in my post about HOW to classify a person, group, etc. as being White/Black/Caucasian/African American... I was simply saying that IF you (general you - not specific you) are saying something about White/Black/Caucasian/African American, that it is incorrect to use White in one part of the sentence and African American in another part of the sentence or Black in one part of the sentence and Caucasian in another part of the sentence.

For example - you should not say:

"The white girl chose to join a sorority that had African American members." or "The sorority has Caucasian as well as black members."

But rather... "The sorority has Caucasian and African American members." or "The sorority has black & white members."

(Just reminding people that you need agreement of clarification of a group in your sentence - a throw back to the good 'ol grad school days ;) )

No, the Name Calling started BEFORE we got into the racism for a change.;) ;)

LOL! Good gracious

Ok, we've had name calling and racism...now all we need is a standard newbie question nad a Clique to form and this will be the epitome of GC Threads.

I'm going to rush at DePauw. What are each of the sororities like and which has the best reputation?

Do you mean NPC or NPHC?












:p

Don't be. You asked a sincere question and got sincere answers.

I don't think anyone is angry.

On another note, I do know that just because you are White, it may mean that you may be of different European heritage - Irish, German, English, French. The issue is that in America, there are usually no boxes to indicate the difference. Boxes to indicate ethnicity are usually White, Black, Hispanic, Hispanic of African decent, Asian, Pacific Islander, Native American.

Central Texas (around Austin) was populated by Germans and Czechoslavakians (I know I spelled that wrong!!) and to this day, they still have festivals that reflect their heritage - and no one has a problem with it. How many people do you know who would turn down a good time at a beer fest!!!! Down in Galveston this time of year, they have 'Dickens (as in Charles) on the Strand', which is very English and everyone goes down there to have a good time. I myself particiapted in the Cinco de Mayo play in the 7th grade. I was a Mexican rebel!!

****TANGENT****

Hi all...

I'm going to basically write a book here, but I have a lot to ask and I have been wanting to talk about this for awhile, and now seems like the perfect opportunity!

I am Caucasian, 100% Irish-Catholic and I have recently become very interested (through my studies) in issues involving race and gender. As a child, I lived in a very racially diverse city area, and I remember never looking at another child as "African-American", "Asian", "Hispanic" or whatever. It didn't occur to me that there were any differences between us at all -- we all were just kids, got along well, and totally unaware of racism or even that there may be cultural differences between us.

I moved to a predominatly Caucasian area in 5th grade, and until I got to college, I totally ignored the issue of race and racism. I was always shocked when anyone would use a racial slur because I honestly thought everyone was the same. We're all humans, right? That was good, I suppose, in one way -- the idea that everyone should be treated with the respect that you would accord to a friend -- but I definitely was ignorant as to the *very* important aspects of others' cultures. I had an Indian friend in HS who was quite hurt when I mentioned how I didn't see her as "Indian".

"I understand your sentiment and we're all brothers and sisters in our humanity," she said to me, "but in saying that, you remain closed off to a huge part of my history and culture that is solely based on my race. That history is very different from all of your history, so it's very important that I see myself as Indian. I am a human being, first and foremost, but I am an Indian woman second. It is a huge part of my identity, and I need you to see that in me." That opened a HUGE discussion between us, which turned out very positively in that I recieved a good education that day. :)

Basically, I very much want to have that sort of education continue. I'm quite interested in ethnic studies at my school, but I go through a lot of emotions about it: I still feel guilty about trying to homogenize everyone in my mind for so long, I'm wary of asking a question that could potentially hurt someone's feelings, I'm not sure if I even have a right to discuss someone else's racial identity, and I'm really worried about appearing naieve. I'd really like to see this dialouge continue without name calling. Let me pose a few questions to everyone, then, keeping in mind that I ask these things with the utmost sincerity and honest desire to learn about others' experiences that were different than mine:

- How can we all, as Greeks, help promote understanding, unity, and friendship between NPC and NPHC sororities? This is actually a question on a personal level as well, as Alpha Kappa Alpha is currently starting a chapter here -- the first NPHC sorority on our campus -- and the Greeks are quite excited for another chapter to get involved in Greek week, mixers, philanthropy events, etc. Welcome, AKA!

- Can someone in an NPHC, multicultural, or other culturally-specific sorority tell me, either on the board or in a PM, some of their experiences with NPC or predominantly white LGLOs? Did you feel like you were all part of the Greek system together, or were there divides? If there were divides, how could these be/have been recitified?

- Are we even willing to discuss these issues? Are they too "taboo?" Would you be willing to sit down with a person of another race and talk about these experiences?

I can't wait to hear from you all. You can PM me if you want to if you'd rather talk in private. Thanks for reading through this, I know it's long. :)

Sincerely,
Emily

Yay for being yellow and brown! ;) :D

I'm all about celebrating different heritages/nationalities/etc. - I like parties :) I just don't think it's okay to celebrate whiteness itself.

It says it on mine as well. I'd venture to guess that it says that on most birth certificates of African Americans who were born from about 1900 - 1978, depending on the region you were born in.

Well, as soon as I hear about a 'Whiteness Festival' I'll post the info. :p :)

They have those.

www.natvan.com
http://www.resistance.com/
http://www.kkk.bz/index1.htm

Just a few samples of places you can find out about such activities ...

Thanks!!:D