Is that so? Hum...truly none system wide or just your fraternity? Regardless, no I did not mean bio sibs. I took notes on what my husband told me so that is what I shared. He may have added Lil Sis for the sake of explaining the differences so I understood. But I guess what I'm seeing throughout this thread is that stead fast rules do not apply everywhere. It is all about what each individual chapter or approves.

None. System-wide. Although that's probably been a changed from when your husband was in school. Little sister groups used to be popular before they were banned. (And yes, I realize some school still have them, but they're not technically allowed anywhere.)

Oh, and I'm in a sorority.

So if you went over to somebody's house wearing your jacket and they offered to take your coat, you wouldn't let them?

Greek Letters
 

Here if your greek you can pretty much were any other greeks stuff, we have greek week and stuff like that and we get t-shirts made, but as far as none greeks go its usually the girls that are "dropped" or they are a sweetheart!

Shannon
Sigma Alpha~Alpha Zeta #109
Tarleton State Universtiy
"Good, Better, Best.
Never let it rest,
Until your good is better,
and your better is best!" -???

Um, what???

Well, I'll be darned! That's kind of a shame because yes, we did party with the brothers but we supported them in a lot of philanthropic stuff. I will have to research more on why they were banned. Must be the history major in me ;) I appreciate the info and thank you for the correction.

I think there are assumed exceptions to what the poster was trying to relay. You are just being a silly goose:rolleyes: (no harm intended)

For anyone interested in more info, Greekchat has a relatively recent thread (ie - current decade ;-) I found it when I googled "Banning Little Sisters in fraternities". The Greekchat thread was "Little Sisters/Sweathearts". Use Greekchat search with that phrase.

I want to know more. I have friends in NPHC organizations and have touched their letters on occasion when doing things like handing them their jacket, borrowing a pen, etc. I want to know why on earth this is such a big deal. One of my friends has an XYZ pillow in her office that I am sure many of her clients have sat on.

What about rush shirts?

Maybe fraternities don't do this anymore, but back in the day...fraternities used to have rush shirts. (Rush XYZ, or some more clever slogan, etc.) It was quite common for female friends or girlfriends to be given these shirts. (Of course, it was generally the very attractive female friends or girlfriends who were given these shirts...I always assumed it was a form of advertising. :) As if it was implied that by rushing XYZ, you'd be hanging out with a bunch of hot babes.)

Another good question, and I can see how these might be confused or lumped together with charitable event t-shirts. I would say no but none of this is my call in the first place. I think sisters and brothers should wear rush shirts only. If I was thinking of rushing a certain house, I would be inclined to stop someone wearing that houses' shirt and ask questions about their house that only a brother or sister should be answering. It would give me a chance to question or check them out and maybe talk them into rushing my house and eventually recruit them. I think it goes back to the exclusivity of the letters. But again, it "ain't" my call to make anymore. ;)

It really is a case by case basis kind of thing, a lot going by intent. If someone is at my house and is looking at my shelf and picks up my pledge book, ritual book, or pin box, then I am going to tell them to put it back. If for some reason my jacket is in someone's way (I honestly can't think of any situation where it would be; I don't really leave it laying around or anything), then them bringing it to me would not offend me, but I would have a problem with someone going into my closet or wherever I may have hung it up and playing with it or something (?!).

I think one of the reasons this is odd to me is I am very protective of my things overall, so I can't really foresee the kinds of situations that you are talking about (casual touching issues, I guess would be the term?). When people see my jacket, it is on me, or hanging up somewhere safe. When people see my pin box, books, etc., it is in a private space. There would be no reason for someone to casually touch any of these things. It happens that people do try, usually GDIs who don't know that they shouldn't and are curious. But it isn't just in passing.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure how to explain this ...

AlphaFrog is correct.

NIC Resolution Regarding Little Sister Groups

WHEREAS, the North-American Interfraternity Conference believes sororities and women's fraternities offer excellent opportunities for women to share a fraternal experience; and

WHEREAS, auxiliary women's groups organized by menâs fraternity chapters, commonly referred to as "little sisters" are inconsistent with the concept and philosophy of separate and equal women's fraternities; and

WHEREAS, the National Interfraternity Conference believes that these groups inhibit the accomplishment of chapter goals by:

DIVERTING resources of time, efforts, and money, which are needed for chapter operations and programming;

DISTRACTING chapter members in the performance of essential duties (e.g., membership recruitment and membership education).

INVITING disharmony within the chapter by usurping the roles and responsibilities of initiated members;

WEAKENING the bonds of brotherhood by adversely affecting interpersonal relationships within the chapter; and

WHEREAS, the Fraternity Executives Association and several member fraternities have taken a position against these auxiliary groups,

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the National Interfraternity Conference and the presidents of its member fraternities believe that "little sister" groups are not desirable adjuncts to the collegiate chapters of men's fraternities and urges and recommends that member fraternities work with their chapters to eliminate these programs at the earliest possible time.

Adopted by vote of the 1987 House of Delegates

And later, this resolution added to the NIC by-laws.

By-Laws of the North-American Interfraternity Conference
(Revised April 26, 2004)

Section 2. Standards.

2. Member organization policies will include:

Fraternity-chapter women's auxiliary groups (i.e. "little sisters") are not allowed (implemented no later than September 1, 2004)

like i said...there is a definite difference between minority greeks and other orgs...

with us our crossing jackets/shirts, tikis, pins, PADDLES ...gifts that we were given..are off limits to anyone handling them (that is people outside your org)

any of that stuff we do not want anyone touching them. if someone touches them and they aren't greek or they don't know any better of course we aren't going to "beat" them up or whatever lol.....BUT if you are greek and you should no better then we will get pissed. it is just out of respect.

i just can't imagine anyone wearing my letters that aren't part of my org....my sorority also has rules like noone, none of my fraternity brothers (Lambda Theta Phi) or family members (like my mom) can wear our letters or anything that says lambda theta alpha...

also whenever we go to a greek shop and get stuff done, like jackets or shirts, it can only be in Burgundy and grey, no other colors.

its very different from mainstream rules i guess, we have very strict rules.
i've seen a lot of mainstream greeks on campus with totes that are like leopard print to look "cute"....i would def rather stay with my burgundy and grey tote...i never understood all those weird patterns or multi-colored totes/shirts/everything that people have sometimes with letters on them.

That is very valuable information and I am grateful that you took the time to pass it on. I will pass it to my husband so that he can be sure it is clear to "his boys".

Can you help me out with one more thing please? Does this apply to "sweethearts" as well ? Are they considered the same things as little sisters or are they different? I can see that sweethearts could be placed in that same category. This would also then answer the very first post of this thread.

Further, if Sweethearts are included in this NIC by-law as well do you all then feel that it should apply to those who are lavaliered? Is it one individuals choice to allow his lavaliered mate to wear the letters or should that be a group/chapter or NIC decision?

Exactly --- for example, if SxyLambdaLady6 and I were both at an random Greek unity event, and she was wearing her tiki, I might comment on it, but I wouldn't touch it. If I took off my jacket, she would not pick it up. If a member of XYZ NPC sorority were at the same event and not familiar with other GLO traditions, she might do either of those two things, and neither of us would jump up kicking and screaming, but we would probably let her know, politely.

My pleasure.

I couldn't find any rule so I'm fairly certain that the NIC doesn't have any rules or standards regarding a chapter and or an inter/national sweetheart. My guess is that it doesn't apply simply because they - the sweethearts - are not members of the organization while "little sisters" were part - or an offshoot - of the organization.

The NIC isn't really concerned with the specific policies of their member organizations regarding letters. That is left up to each fraternity HQ. Then each chapter. In other words, if there is a specific policy in the fraternity's by-laws, that should supercede the chapters'. But if not, then I would guess each chapter would set their own protocol (rules/guidelines). That is, if they even have anything official. My guess is that the campus culture might influence whether they are given out or not as well.

As for girlfriends being given letters, again that would be up to each fraternity's HQ first, followed by chapter protocol, then campus culture.

While I respect any organization that restricts its uses of colors/patterns, I do feel that the letters of my organization (and their meaning) never change, no matter what color or pattern is used. Do I have a letter shirt with green and white? Sure, everyone in my chapter does. But I feel the same amount of pride when I wear my letters with other colors, especially ones that I have made myself.

Thank you so much TSteven. You have cleared up a great many questions. I appreciate your help and time resolving this.

That is essentially what Pike Girl and Delta Chi girl shirts are here. That's not quite the same thing as, I would assume, the fraternity members all know that the shirts have been given out, and the shirts most likely do not include the greek letters.

Essentially, it's just in bad taste to wear someone's letters without them expressly giving permission, and even if you are given permission, it's probably best to find a way to designate that you do not consider yourself to be one of them. Sweetheart shirt that has letters and says sweetheart...fine...rush advertising...fine...formal, party, philanthropy shirts sold to the general public...fine...lavaliere...fine...but jerseys, stiched letter shirts, shirts meant only for brothers? Not so much.

I really guess it depends on how the org feels. My boyfriend is part of a local fraternity with only one chapter; if I wore his letters sweatshirt because I was cold, and he lent it to me, they most certainly would not care. I know all the brothers quite well, despite the fact that they go to a different school several hours away, and we're good friends. If they cared, however, I would definately not want to wear his letters for any reason.

Since they are local, a lot of their rules and regs are much less strict than national GLO's, though, which may explain the fact that they're a lot more lenient. They encourage letter wearing because it gets their letters out there more.

As far as little sisters go, I was told that the REAL reason why it was discontinued is because there began a habit of the big brothers expecting sex from their little sisters - that it was a tradition, and pretty widespread. It sucks that it's not allowed anymore, though, because it would be pretty cool.

No, that is not the real reason.

Wait - it would be cool to have a fraternity boy expect sex from you because you happen to be their little sister? Not so much (even though, as Sheila said, that's not the real reason anyway).

Heh, no, I wasn't clear there - the CONCEPT of little sisters is cool, not that they expect sex.

If that's not the real reason, okay then; that's what I was told by my big sis.

I think even with most nationals it will still be a chapter to chapter thing. I'm friends with lots of my boyfriend's brothers...and I don't think they would go after him or me with pitchforks if I were wearing his jersey or something (though why I would, I don't know) but I do not think they'd be particularly happy with it...and I wouldn't if positions were switched.

As for little sister groups...it seems cool, yeah, and I'm sure there were many that were actually very productive, but I know my mom for one has said that she believed that some were very shady at her alma mater and some were just pretty much useless. The NIC listed the reasons in a previous post and they sound very legitimate to me...it does seem to kind of detract from brotherhood and the privilege of being in XYZ fraternity, to sort of give honorary brother status to girls. I don't think I would join even if they still existed on principal...I don't want to be in an auxilary group of another organization, even if it's a men's group.

Considering your big sis (unless you mean your biological big sis) was never on campus when little sisters were in existence, I really don't think she is qualified to speak on the matter.

Sorry if I'm bitchy about this, but some of my best friends in college were little sisters and I get really irritated when these old, untrue urban myths get brought up by people who don't know what they're talking about.

No, it's fine; that's why I brought it up, to see if that reallyw as the real reason behind it. Thanks for clarifying the real reason.

I am a bit torn here because I do believe that the guys I knew specifically, probably had sex on their minds as well. For instance, one little sis rush event I recall clearly involved two guys at a check in table taking names from girls who wanted to be little sisters. If you paid attention, after you started to leave the table, the guys would drop your name either in the good pile or the bad, solely based on your appearance. Now realistically, you can't fault the guys entirely for wanting their little sisters to be attractive as they were a reflection on XYZ.

I do believe some of the guys were thinking they might get sex from the girls but that would also assume that the girls themselves had no say in the matter which would be an erroneous assumption. We learned really quickly which girls were "easy" and which weren't but that wasn't grounds for kicking them out of little sisters. Though we would at some point end up talking to them about it and the cloud that persons' behavior placed on the group. In my case, I did end up dating and marrying a brother but I can state factually that we did do many charitable events with the brothers.

I can not find fault though with the NIC rules established in the late 80's. I felt that most of their reasoning was intended to protect the brotherhood itself.

Which makes them...college guys.

There's a difference between "hey, she's cute, I wouldn't mind having her around, I might ask her out" and "hey, if she gets to be a little sister, I can bang her daily." I can't think of ANY of the little sister programs on my campus that were run in the latter manner.

That happened to me one time actually....she kinda just grabbed it and it pissed me off. But ya our sweethearts get a jersey with our letters and then their sorority name stiched on it as well

As a Delt sweetheart at Tulane, I have an official sweetheart necklace the guys bought for me that I love to wear, :) but I don't wear any DTD articles of clothing. There's no really official chapter policy on it, but I would feel akward with the on-campus culture to wear one, unless it was maybe a sweatshirt that I borrowed while I was out with the brothers at an event or something. Occasionally, they'll have 'sweetheart' shirts printed that they give out to women at parties, etc... but they're very hot commodities on campus, and I've never been offered one - it's more of a recruiting thing. I'm sure if I asked for one, they'd be happy to get me a shirt that actually said 'DTD Sweetheart' or the like, but it's just never been an issue. Only occasionally do I see any other women associated with the chapter wearing letters, either - and again, it's usually only in the context of borrowing a sweatshirt with the intent of returning it shortly, etc. etc.

At tech, the fraternity i am a sweetheart for buys us letters that are specific for rose petals. We get them when we are revealed and we are than allowed to wear any sewn on letters and we also get each of the rush shirts or philanthropy shirts. But girls that are lavaliered are not allowed to wear letters, only the sweethearts. There are other fraternities on campus that dont allow them to wear letters. In most guys eyes, girls can wear letters that any brother gives them except sewn on ones.

That makes the most sense...sweethearts are picked by the chapter, but not lavaliered girls.

Amen! That is exactly what I've tried to impart here. Huge difference between one guy making a decision like that and the whole group deciding.

At many chapters men have to ask permission before lavaliering or pinning a girlfriend or fiancee. In that case, the group does have say.

Come to think of it, GeekyPenguin, I know of a few fraternities in which I have close friends where they must discuss and vote on the lavaliering of a girlfriend before it is allowed. Interesting.

I was a ZTA and an ATO little sis. I wore my ATO jersey almost as much as my Zeta one. The ATO was a silent bid..no Little Sister rush or anything like that. Do fraternities even have Little Sisters anymore? We were a great help at rush and I personally did a lot to end some of the hazing. I hid many a pledge in my dorm room when people were ready to do something extreme. Fun is fun, but way back in the 70s and 80s the guys were a little on the edge.

No.

Read the rest of the thread...it's stated several times.

I was a little sis in 76 and 77 and I was in no way shape or form expected to do anything. I didn't even drink the semester I was initiated..I think little sisters were to show guys on campus that abc fraternity has pretty girls who are regularly at their parties. We helped at rush with making small talk with the PNMs and I even remember having to do with someone getting "black balled". Most of the little sisters didn't even date the brothers, which the brothers confided in me was wrong. I resigned after I started dating the Pres of another fraternity. I wish I hadn't resigned.. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

"Dagger Men" are KD's male form of a sweet heart. They are allowed to wear letters, but there cannot be more than five on campus at a time; at least, this is what I have recently been told. :D