That's a very good question, 33girl. I'm glad you asked.

I teach judo on the side. Although most of the kids and young adults are in my class for the exercise and fun of it, I also get some students who take martial arts because, for one reason or another, they have been bullied, picked on, and been branded as "outcasts."

It breaks my heart. Fortunately, martial arts is the great equalizer, and I've seen some remarkable success stories in these kids.

You have to understand that some of the comments made here are so much like what I see happening to these kids.

I don't like to see anyone "labeled" or "branded" like this. If someone has been cut in college.. so what? Maybe they had lousy grades. Maybe they were shy. Maybe they were a late bloomer.

I have a soft heart. I think that you've seen enough of my posts to realize that I love to help people and don't like to see them hurt.

And, yes GP, I do understand the mutual selection process.. but unless I'm misunderstanding your posts, it looks to me like you want to cut potential AIs off at the knees if they were cut in college before they even got a chance to try.

If they were cut for grades, or an extraneous commitment, I see no problem with them AIing. If they were cut for character, I certainly do. For example, tinydancer is a GC AI, who I supported throughout her process. She is an excellent example of what the AI process SHOULD be used for.

If our chapter at Purdue thought a woman was unworthy of Gamma Phi Beta 20 years ago, that is their decision and I support them in it. AI should not be a back door for women cut in college. It is an avenue for membership for women who did not have the opportunity in college because of work, sports, family obligations, etc.

I am appalled that people on GC encourage women who were cut 3-4 times to AI. It happens. Read some of the stories in this forum.

Okay we are completely off topic and no wonder there is debate on whether to close the subforum or not when certain people(you know who you are and I shouldn't have to name you, and everyone else reading this thread knows who you are) are behaving like five year olds.

Back and forth bickering because neither person can RESPECT THE OTHER PERSON'S OPINION!!!!!!!!

Do you not think that PNAM's aren't seeing your bickering, with your letters in your signature?

I for one would be thinking "do I want this person as my sister when they are arguing on the net and whatnot".

Trust me, I have been there arguing with another member of greekchat (a sister no less) and only because we WEREN'T RESPECTING EACH OTHERS OPINIONS!!!!! It's basically come down to putting her on ignore because I don't want to give ADPi a bad name because our opinions differ from one another and we just don't "mesh" well.

I know it's not the same thing, y'all are in different chapters, but it doesn't matter b/c in my opinion your giving your respective chapters a bad image b/c your fighting with one another.

You both have very strong opinions. Be happy about that. Respect that. But don't fight over it.

Again, I've learned the hard way.



Now back to AI. We need to get back to the point that we, as intiated members, have to emphasize the point that AI IS NOT as easy as it looks. In fact it is harder than FR. It is much more complex and takes much more time especially when sororities are still trying to work out the kinks.

Now I can only speak for ADPi and I will only say that we are working to inform the alumnae associations and chapters so that they are aware of AI and the stigma attached to AI slowly disappears.

I think the problem is, is that a lot of initiated members to their repsective chapters are not fully aware of AI and the process and they somehow think that the PNAM doesn't have to "do" what we as collegiate initiated members had too. Again, only speaking for ADPi, I know that the women who go through AI had/have to do the same things I did as an Alpha. In fact, these women aren't getting the same experiences I did. Other than learning about ADPi and greek life I got to do so many other things as a collegian that these women will never get to do.

AI isn't for everyone. As an PNAM chapters want someone who is going to make the long term committment. Which is somewhat the same and different in collegiate FR. In FR they are looking for the short term (college) committment and hoping it will extend a long term lifetime committment.

Let's get back to discussing what is important, how we can make sure the PNAM's on this board are well knowledged and how to make sure any threads they start are discrete, just like a FR thread.

Feel free to agree with me. Feel free to disagree with me. But do not start fighting with me over my opinions. Because I am most certainly not fighting with anyone. I'm stating facts and my opinions.

Well, I suppose, GP, that we'll just have to disagree on this.

I know that I'm not the same person I was when I was in college. I would hope that I'm better-- because life gives us lessons.. and if we pay attention to them, we can learn and grow.

To stigmatize someone who may have been a shrinking violet 20 years ago when she was in college is not something I would do.

I believe everyone deserves a chance to go after their dreams. I would never think to cut someone off before they even get to the starting line. If they're right for a GLO, they are, if they're not, they're not.. and they will never make it through the AI process. I have enough faith in my GLO to be able to tell the difference.. don't you?

As Tony Robbins says, "The sum of the past does not equal the future."

I never thought of GC as hurting my chance, I thought of it as a place, to share my thoughts and ideas and if I happen to have a really bad day, a place where possibly someone can point out a silver lining. A place where I can get my thoughts out and a place to get my "thinking straight" in terms of this process. A place where others have gone through (somewhat) this and can understand how I am feeling.

Since GC is the “most popular gathering place” for greeks online. I would have be an idiot not to know that (inter)national officers are reading these boards. I have seen some effects of GLO “policy” changes because of something posted on GC.

I know for one that I am very easy to identify. My life if an open book and if you ask me a direct question, I will answer it. I have nothing to hide, why should I? I understand that some may have things to hide, I don't. (The only thing that I will not answer is who is the group that I am pursuing at the moment).

Of course, I already said this (or eluded to it), either earlier in this thread or the related thread.

Exactly.

AI is NOT for women who went through recruitment and didn't join. It is for women who did not have the opportunity to join in college. PERIOD. Those are the facts of how we look at AI.

In the very rare cases, it is for a woman who pledged our group, never initiated (for whatever reason) and wants to renew her commitment.

She is an international officer so if y'all want to continue trying to tell my sorority what to do, go ahead. This is our policy.

First off, thank you to Geeky Penguin for your kind words. I had wonderful support from the sisters here on GC.

That being said, I would like to give my 2 cents about the process:

RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!! It must be the librarian in me, but I looked THOROUGHLY at the sororities before I made my decision. I was interested in 4 at first, but Gamma Phi "spoke " to me in an incredible way.

It is PREFERABLE (though not always possible, and I understand this) to have a sponsor who knows you well and can make inquiries for you.

It's already been mentioned, but KNOW the reason why you want to do this. (Be honest, now)

I certainly don't claim to know everything about AI or Gamma Phi - I've only been a member for about a year and a half - but I think those three points are important. I am grateful every day that I have had this opportunity.

Imagine you are an international officer, you're reading the AI forum here on GC and you're reading someone's story.

You have recently been contacted by someone (or your organization with someone's information) who is interested in AI and you've emailed them and they seem nice. You start thinking - hmm, maybe it's the same person.

You discover it is - then you read in their thread that they have contacted 5 groups at once.

So now you know that this woman is likely going to be meeting with 4 other sororities in your area. If she doesn't stand out in a big way after your first meeting or email contact - whatever - what in the world would consider you to continue meeting with her?

She obviously has other plans. Back up plans...or maybe your group IS her backup.

This woman might be a good person...she might be someone, that if she had contacted only your organization, you might want to put the time and energy into meeting. She isn't Mother Teresa, but she's nice and might be a good fit.

But when all these other groups come into the equation, there's a BIG chance she might go elsewhere, because obviously she isn't too clear on what kind of group she wants, she doesn't totally love YOUR group. Since she's just "good and nice", it may not be worth it to go through all the trouble - if she was super and amazing and loved your group, it might be. But with all these other groups in the mix, it might not be worth fighting for her.

So I think GC could have a negative impact on someone's AI process.

Thank you.

And to those who are now going to say that this doesn't happen, IT DOES. My effort to assist has dropped dramatically when I have found out that a woman is looking at other groups.

Is the viciousness over now?

We all have our opinions about who does and who doesnt.

If I was an IHQ member/director and looked at some of the Posts By GLO Members, I would be ashamed for the Name calling and in things that were being said by some GLO Members!

As I stated, LXA Did Not Have an AI Process Statement until I questioned them. They then came out with one.

So, Your GLO doesnt, that does not give anyone of you the right to climb onto some posters back and belittle them:mad:

You make Your GLO Proud and I hope some of Your National Officers look at what You Post. Mine do watch the Boards and ask questions.

This Site is Not a Panacea for wanting AI, it is just a conduit for people looking for many reasons.

As some have said, it is a small % and will always be.

Keep being a Cannot Understand Normal Thinking and I will either Edit or Delete a post.

Remember, I can Do it!

Good To Be The Co-King!:D

Leave the PNAIs alone and let them do their Thing. They will make it or they wont!

It is only Some Opinions.

And actually some dont mean anything but to be mean!:rolleyes:

http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili.../remybussi.gif:D

Thanks for saying this, I know that had been bugging me for some time now. I just didn't know how to phrase it. Yes, I'm a newer member of my sorority but I don't act like I know everything on here.

I honestly haven't seen anyone belittle anyone really for the most part in this thread, or belittle AI in general or say that they think AI sucks and shouldn't happen, etc.

Some posters are making it a point (hell, from all of the posts on here that happened today is seems that some are making a full time job out of it!) to try to get offended by something and to try to turn everything into an insult. It's not. So don't try to play victim b/c no one said the things you're twisting the posts into.

I guess it is just me but I would give her the benefit of the doubt. I would understand that she is looking at other groups "trying to find her home and where she fits".

Now this is not to say that later on in the relationship I wouldn't point blank ask her about it.

But in the intial stages I can understand that she is looking for the place she fits in the most. In that sense, it's like formal recruitment. First round girls go to a bunch of houses, they eliminate half of them. Does that mean we stop recruiting them and talking to them because they are interested in 5 or so other houses? No, in fact we recruit harder.

I get that AI is different but in some aspects (emphasis on some) it is the same.

But then again if I were reading her AI thread and she stated that she started talking to five groups and now she was only talking to one and I knew we were that one, cha-ching I know with almost 100% certainty that we are the one that she is interested in joining.

So GC can work both ways. Just like it can work for and against a PNM.

But the thing is that we, the GLO, don't NEED an AI (I am saying in general - don't flame me because you think I'm insulting AI's). Yes, AI's can be wonderful and they can add MUCH to a chapter (however not all of them do) but if a woman isn't 100% interested in only us then I have absolutely NO reason to be 100% interested in her. Tell me why I should be? She might be the greatest woman alive and able to add much to greek life, but if she's not interested enough in my chapter then it's irrelevant. I have over 2000 women in this area, who are already members of Gamma Phi Beta, my energy is better spent convincing THEM to get involved.

Now, as AI's on this board can attest to, I will bend over backward and attempt to walk on water for them if they prove they are committed. I am actually probably one of the easiest people to get on the side of a committed AI and I am very pro-AI but I also think that it's the responsibility of the PAI to convince me, not the other way around.

It would be awesome if a woman was pursuing, say, five organizations in her search for a lifetime of joy that only sorority membership can provide, and attended an event with a local alumnae chapter and the women meeting with her said, "Okay, well, it's been swell, but we're going to go hang out with four other women to see if they're better than you KTHXBI."

This bears repeating. I think the majority of GLOs have a niche for the Honorary Member - the Housemother who spent her life taking care of her boys, the Dean or Professor who made the path to a colonization easier, etc. Alumnae Initiation becomes somewhat controversial due to many people thinking that either their GLO still ONLY does the Honorary Membership thing, or when the members feel that many other WORTHY organizations can fill the same void.

What I would like to see (picture me in a Miss America pagent, with my sash, "Mah platform is...") is a LIST such as:

1) ABC GLO: AI by Alumnae Invitation only. Do NOT contact HQ! Make a contact through GC or through a Real Life Alumnae Association.

2) DEF GLO: Contact HQ (address), and ask the following questions: 1/2/3.

3) HI GLO: Make a contact with an alumnae in good standing, then contact HQ.

etc.

Does that make sense to anyone else?



ETA: If a list such as the above is made, and it's unknown how one GLO or another does AI, then SAY "Unknown"!! That is SO much kinder than letting someone make a fool of themselves by making a wild guess as to which method to use!

I don't think it's that cut and dried (at least in Alpha Gamma Delta it isn't), so it's hard to say the best way. When we colonize a new chapter we always install an alumnae chapter too, if there isn't already one in the area. We frequently find women in the area to initiate when the chapter is initiated. When we re-colonized at the University of Michigan, there were a handful of alumna initiates and they had all come to us in different ways. One was a mother of the president of a nearby collegiate chapter, for example. For our chapters in remote areas, where they have a hard time getting alumnae advisors (like the upper peninsula of Michigan), the collegians often seek out women who can help them in an advisory capacity and we end up making those women alumna initiates. We also have special alumna initiates who are initiated at Convention. They are usually sought out by alumnae. And we have women like TauAlumna, who was going to grad school at that University and was going to go through Recruitment but they suggested AI instead because of policies.

There are so many roads to AI and it's usually a very individual situation.

Well said. It's not necessarily a "one size fits all" process.

Bumping this thread because a lot of great things were posted here. I feel that they need repeating.

I think this sub forum should go away and the AI's should go and post in their respective sorority forums and enjoy the nice people of GC in the other forums. They are our sorority sisters, not second class citizens. Those pursuing AI, good luck-- post in the right forum once you get initiated. This isn't a place to journal your 30 year search for membership in ABC. Try LiveJournal.

Worth repeating.

I understand your sentiment, but the feedback and general support that I got while journaling in my thread was quite valuable to me. That wouldn't have happened on LiveJournal. I kept my own personal journal (pen 'n paper style), but that is totally different than the interaction of a live thread. But anyway...I agree with what you are saying. I just know I'm glad that I handled my experience exactly as I did.

You also didn't come on here seeking validation or a sponsor. You only looked at one group, and only looked at ASA after someone in it recommended you for it.

True...and I'm so glad she did.

Some people (like you) can handle it...and others can't. There's an element of over-sharing that tends to be present in many "AI Journals" that we've seen here. Just like rush threads, there are people that can write an excellent rush threads, naming the school and the sororities by name, and there are people who should have just kept their mouths shut, because it ended up costing them.

I see...I just felt a little defensive for a fraction of a second:o

I have observed that PNMs who come on GC and detail their recruitment experience as it happens on GC typically end up with piss poor outcomes. There can be 2 reasons for this:

1) They reveal too much about themselves, people "out" them and/or they make it too apparent that their personalities online/comments may be indicative of how they are IRL. Which can be taken negatively or someone just has an ax to grind.

2) They are oddballs who have more friends online than IRL and can't present themselves well in a social setting.

I think the same can be said for AI. We caution PNM's to use discretion. I know how much some love to read these exciting stories-- it reminds us all of a time when we were rushing and looking for the right fit for ourselves. Or we want to relive the excitement through these women's stories. But that's pretty selfish of us. There's a lot to be said for privacy and discretion.

I know that my GLO doesn't want to make our AI program a highly publicized practice outside of educating our existing members of the program and encouraging them to nominate women for membership through AI. We're not embarrassed or ashamed-- AI's are mini-celebrities in our sorority! That's because it is such a special circumstance and they can share their story with our members to influence them positively and encourage them to seek out women in their communities, their mothers or aunts or sisters for nomination.

AI is not recruitment. When it becomes recruitment, this sub-forum will be useful. Right now, GC is the top site to talk about Greek Life. Although a small % of the population is Greek, although an even smaller % remain active as alumni/ae, and although a very, very small % of Greeks even know about AI, the activity in the AI Forum on GC gives the impression that AI is a common part of our sorority practice. And that is bad viral marketing for the GLOs (the majority) who view AI as a special-circumstance occasion.

Again, I welcome AI's as SISTERS. I just don't think we need to broadcast this process until such time that our respective grand councils open up alumnae membership to recriutment and interest meetings for PNAI's. Until that time, I'll happily support my sorority's AI process through the proper channels of communication. This forum is not one of them.

To my knowledge, this post in no way launches any personal attack, ridicule or harrassment and does not violate the TOS.

I've just said this in one of the other threads, but the number one thing that makes me still want to see the AI subforum is being able to read a story like yours...I love hearing the stories of women pursuing an organization for which they were recommended or had pledged but never joined, or are members of absorbed locals. I think that, in the right circumstance, the woman's process and story is fascinating. It's just too bad that the AI subforum gets all mucked up by some crazy PNAMs.

Cosign times INFINITY

Exactly.

Regardless of the realities of the situation (which is that only a few AIs are initiated into NPC groups as a whole on an annual basis) if someone finds GC and the AI subforum they may think it's much more common than it is in fact.

NHPC Alumnae Chapter
 

As a member of a BGLO Alumnae Chapter (Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.), I find it interesting that so many GLO members are averse to AI. We have Alumnae Initiation and it is just as serious as joining the Sorority in undergrad. You have to go through the same process as a collegiate chapter and you have specific requirements that have to be met before you are considered for membership in an alumnae chapter. There is a process outlined by the National Chapter of the organization and you are not a member until it is completed (no sorority pin or badge will be mailed to your home to signify you are a member). In a nutshell, the process for joining a NPHC Sorority is stringent and only those who seek out the Sorority are provided with information as to how they could potentially become a member. With that said, maybe NPC orgs shoud review their Alumnae selection process and make the requirements harder to become a member at that level.
It's like working a part-time job being a member of a NHPC Alumnae chapter because you are more exposed to the community and you are charged with carrying out the mission of the sorority on a higher level.:D

"Intelligence is the torch of wisdom"
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Dayton Alumnae Chapter

You are missing what we are saying - none of us (ok, maybe one person) is opposed to Alumnae Initiation. We are opposed to discussing the particulars of the process on GC...just as most NPHC members are opposed to discussing membership particulars for undergrad OR AI on GC.

Was there really a need to bump this fine thread?

Also, I'm surprised that a Delta would misspell the acronym NPHC twice in one post.

If you haven't, read the thread. NPC AI is not at all like NPHC AI. NPC groups do not expect to bring in non-collegiate members on any sort of regular basis.

So is spellcheck :rolleyes:

Do you discuss NPHC membership intake online?

That's right, I didn't think so.

Again, the issue here isn't whether or not we support Alumnae Initiation. Most of us (with the exception of one) support it. Many of us do not support Alumnae Initiation discussion.

Please take the time to read through some of the threads when you have the time.

I'm curious as to who, specifically, is an AI who doesn't support AI discussion? Is that every AI who signed "con" on the poll? My understanding was that the poll was whether or not to get rid of the AI subforum... not whether or not it was to be discussed.

If I'm incorrect on that, I'd like to know from AI's (not collegiate initiates) who is against discussing AI and why.