Perhaps you meant you're. Your arguments are kind of specious to begin with and your spelling errors don't help.

<3,
An overeducated liberal from the north

ahem, "an overeducated liberal CHRISTIAN from the north"

don't sell yourself short ;)

That depends on who you're asking, partner. ;)

Wow Geeky you got me!! What would us Christian Conservatives do without you libs to spell/grammer check us.

Oh yes, that's right. There's plenty of people, some probably on this thread, who are of the "Catholics aren't Christians" variety. Which we all know is one of the dumbest things EVAR ;)

Well, the ones who know that grammar is the correct answer are the Christian conservatives that I'm friends with and that I date.

I'm not sure there's hope for you. :(

What's funny is that you make fun of "libs" and say that getting angry at them would be like getting angry at a baby but first of all, your arguments make no sense and second of all you don't seem to have a grasp of basic grammar rules.

If I were really nice, I'd suggest that you stop, but really, it's amusing as hell.

This thread is blowing up . . . it's great.


Heather
-- Twice as much fun as the BJU honor code!

it's funny when people can't back up what comes spewing from their mouth, or keyboards in this instance

I carry my gun on my keyboard.

while you're busying getting out your gun you'll get your keyboard smashed over your head

Peeps like ADPi Conniebama make me want to walk away from Christianity. :(

sheetcake, you were SO GOOD at the bridal shower yesterday. I wish I had some leftover you :(

Oh now Rudey, I never said that it was a perfect system ,just that I did not like what was going on. But as soon as we get that Social Security to go private we will be in much better shape!!

Welcome back, SHEETCAKE!

First chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, John Jay, wrote:

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty ... of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." (1816)

William Penn

"Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants."

Even liberal Supreme Court chief justice, Earl Warren, wrote in 1954:

"I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses ... .. a Christian land governed by Christian principles. I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it: freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under law, and the reservation of powers to the people ... I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country."

Washington also said:

"Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

"It is impossible to rightly govern . . . without God & the Bible."

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all the religion of Jesus Christ." to a group of Indian chiefs.

Thomas Jefferson, the man "blamed" for the wall of separation between church and state said:

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Abraham Lincoln:

"Unless the great God who assisted [President Washington], shall be with me and aid me, I must fail. But if the same omniscient mind, and Almighty arm, that directed and protected him, shall guide and support me, I shall not fail ... Let us pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now."

Teddy Roosevelt:

"In this actual world, a churchless community, a community where men have abandoned and scoffed at, or ignored their religious needs, is a community on the rapid down-grade."

Yes, I googled "christian nation." I also "cut and paste" so as not to make any grammatical errors.

I have enjoyed this thread and I hope everyone has had a wonderful time. I am going back to the shooting range to practice and to the bible to study. I am sure I will see all of the gc names again soon.

Thanks, but those are a bunch of random quotes from random people. Those are people's opinions that this country is a Christian country. Those are NOT fact.

Show me where it says Christianity is our official religion. I would like to see this stated in an actual governing document, such as the Declaration of Independence or the United States Constitution.

Hint: You're going to be looking for a long time.

No, it's not just you. Regardless if it's the same belief, it all depends on how it's presented. For instance, I don't enjoy listening to the views when they are laced with fear. As in, be saved or burn in hell. (Or as I experienced: make sure you brother gets saved or you won't see him in Heaven.) To me, that energy (and money toward printing "helpful" brochures) could go to better purposes.

I lied... I'm actually a centrist. But centrists don't really get any credit in these types of debates. I lean a bit to the left so in order to get any sort of attention, I should probably just jump on the liberal bandwagon. But I'm nice regardless. [/snark]

"Dad, can I get a gun rack on my bike?"

"Bobby, I've been waiting for the day you'd ask me that."

But GP, she just posted a bunch of random quotes and then said she was going to the shooting range -- making it clear that she is not expected to return to try to actually discuss anything she posted.

Nah, that's just a convenient excuse not to actually have to come up with something to back herself up.

She's been online since she posted last, and has even viewed this thread. "Who's Online" is a fun tool ;)

Blind ignorance of history and a firm belief in "guns and god" is perhaps the most damaging segment of the "conservative" movement in the US... the fact that she posted crap from at least 40 years after the founding (and including a statment that was greated as hypocritical even then) speaks of a willingness to ignore anything contradicting her beliefs, and a bias for statements that remotely support her beliefs... something that does not enure a strong trust of her sources...

Anyways the current US conservative movement is so divorced from it's historical foundings within the Tory movement it might almost be commical (for example the firm opposition to capital punsihment). I'd say that Christianity hasn't co-opted the conservative movement - but the evangelical movement of Christianity... in much the same way as fundamentalist Islam has co-opted many Middle East governments - in philisophical opposition to the tenats of each respective faith.

YOU'RE BACk!!! :D

Amen!

Well, I never post in heated topics on GC, but I'm feeling a little feisty today, so here I go...

As a Californian (a state with a VERY high population of illegal immigrants)and as a liberal Catholic , illegal immigrants are a, for lack of a better term, a necessary evil. Come visit me in California and I'll take to you Ventura county so you can observe the migrant illegal agriculture workers. These people work twelve hour days, bent over all those lovely strawberries you will eat this season, for minimum wage (if lucky) in the blistering sun. Whereas, in Central America, they can work the same, if not longer hours, for a whopping nine dollars a DAY (yes, this is factual information from my UCLA History of U.S. Immigration class). As "Christians", tell me why you don't believe these people should be allowed to obtain the best life for themselves they can, or as a "Christian" , why you shouldn't help those less fortunate as Christ did and calls all Christians to do. Conservatives (and some of my best friends, by the way) always fall back on the "fact" illegal immigrants are a bane on our economy and our societal sytems, but as Rudey illustrated, they are far from it.
So, we've come to the conclusion, people, who came here just like your ancestors, shouldn't be given the same consideration and "pursuit of happiness"... wait I thought this was what the U.S.A stood from its inception. And from my experience working with several various social service programs and within the education system, these people are not here for the downfall and economic bankruptcy of the United States, but are here to give themselves and their children one ounce of the life you are so blessed to enjoy by doing work no "American" will do. Seriously, how many native-born Americans would work for the same wage in horrible conditions, in our society that is quickly moving away from its "blue-collar" dominated economic system?

HAHA, I just knew that someone was going to bring up the whole "your ancestors were immigrants" thing. One of the things that makes the situation different today as to back when my great great grandparents came over from Poland was that my family, even way back then, made it a point to learn english. My great great grandfather was a very smart man and knew that in order to make it in a new country that he and his family would have to embrace the American way of life and not expect Americans to learn Polish. I don't understand why I, as an American, am expected to be tolerant of the non-speaking residents. Why are there billboards in Spanish, why do ATM machines give you a choice of language. Why do I have to have some of my pay go to the education system only to fund a teacher to teach Spanish to American children?? Why does that teacher not teach English to the children who can not speak English?? We are not helping the illegal immigrants by catering to them, we are only making the situation worse. I don't care if we have millions of immigrants that come in on a daily basis, as long as they can speak English or are willing to go to classes to learn and that they are here legally!!
Oh I know that they take crap jobs that Americans just don't want to do, but that is not neccisarily the case any more. Alot of construction jobs are now going to illegals because they do it cheaper and they do not have any health benefits. I know that it is also the fault of the companies or individuals that hire out this type of help. It still does not help the situation.
Also I have had several friends and family members that have been involved in several auto accidents which were not their fault, unfortunatly they were hit by an uninsured Mexican mototist that was here illegally. Now get this, their insurance went up through no fault of their own, is that fair??
I guess what I am trying to say through all of these rambelings is that I am absolutely for immigrants coming over to America, as long as it is legal and they can speak English or are willing to learn. I believe that everyone should have a great life and be able to do all the great things that Americans get to do. And one of the ways to ensure that they have a quality life in America is to make sure that they are here legally. This way they can not be taken advantage of on their wages, they can pay into the system and get something back, and they can instill theses values into their children.
I can respect your point of view please respect mine

You are wrong on all account. Sorry that your knowledge is limited.

Well, she obviously knows that her knowledge is limited, hence why she refuses to respond to the thread ;)

You know, if it was okay to make arguments and present things as fact with absolutely NO proof to back them up, my job would be SO much easier.

I guess they'd find someone else they don't agree with to pick on because of a simple mistake. :rolleyes:

I think Conniebama just exceeded the site's bandwidth limit for logical fallacies - but just in case, I submit for your approval:

citations, please

Hey, you can love your God all you want, just like I can - but it is completely inappropriate to infer that the US is a Christian nation. That's absurd, inane, and completely goes against the values of Christianity and of our nation. Seriously, what is so difficult to understand about this? How can you take out-of-context quotations and try to 'prove' an argument post hoc? I'm about to puke here.

Even if she did use citations, she would probably still be ripped apart by those who don't agree, so what's the point? They would immediately be dismissed as false or random or whatever else.

apparantly you share her ability to predict the future and what might have been.

It's funny, half of the people ripping her so-called-logic apart SHARE many of her beliefs and values and are conservatives themselves.

She has made statements to support her claims that are blatantly false or out of context. When called out in response to the falsity of those statements, she refuses to post from the thread. To me that indicates not having enough information to support her claims and knowing that she is wrong but won't admit it.

In the "real" world you can't do stuff like that, and you're going to get called on it. If it was a liberal pulling shit out of their ass like that I'd say the same thing as well.

Amazing isn't it. :D

Holy crap this is getting ugly . . . let's try it in the simplest possible fashion:

THE POINTS SHE'S MAKING CAN ONLY BE ACCEPTED AS TRUE OR 'WHATEVER ELSE' IF SHE PROVIDES CITATIONS AND SHOWS AN UNDERSTANDING OF CONTEXT, TO PROVE THE QUOTATIONS ARE NOT FALSE, RANDOM, OR WHATEVER ELSE.

Side note: how on Earth can Evangelical or Fundamentalist Christians, the most OVERREPRESENTED group in the USA (possibly second, to the elderly), act like everyone's "out to get them"? Mind-bending.

No, she wouldn't. Maybe there would be people who would disagree with her, but that is the point of debate, am I right?

It doesn't matter if she's liberal, conservative or whatever. It's a matter of backing up one's assertions.

We are. We have special Catholic meetings where we plan to get those guys. That's why all the people who see the Virgin Mary in their grilled cheese live down south. We're trying to corrupt them. We're going to get the northern ones with too much beer.

Should we create a special thread where we show how to argue over an issue?

If someone is ok with abortion for girls he knocks up by mistake but is pro-life for others, does that make him a bad person?

-Rudey