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-   -   Pope given last rites (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=64963)

kstar 04-05-2005 10:40 PM

Is Archbishop Desmond Tutu in the running?

Or is he an Archbishop of the CoE?

Wait, is he dead? I heard him speak when I was younger, it was amazing. He was the only widely known religious figure that I thought was worth a damn.

Just a thought, he's old, and from Africa, is that who you were thinking of?

DeltAlum 04-05-2005 10:48 PM

I believe that Desmond Tutu is an Anglican Bishop.

According to his biography he has several children and was ordained to the Priesthood and served many posts in the Anglican Church -- or Church of England as you asked.

eta

I think this is who many believe could be the first black Pope:

"Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria has been mentioned as a candidate to be the first African Pope."

kstar 04-05-2005 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I believe that Desmond Tutu is an Anglican Bishop.

I think this is who many believe could be the first black Pope:

"Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria has been mentioned as a candidate to be the first African Pope."

For some reason, I thought he was a CoE officiant, but, I wasn't absolutely sure.

Rereading my post, I come off sounding like I was putting down the pope. I wasn't, I was only trying to emphasize that Archbishop Tutu was one of the best speakers I've ever listened to, and the best religious speaker.

About the late pope, he was a good man, I didn't agree with some of his veiws, but he did a lot of good in some areas.

There's a really cute story about the late pope in my Chicken Soup for the Jewish Soul.

WCUgirl 04-05-2005 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Methodists and several branches of Lutherans do this too.

I have a lot of Protestant friends. :p

My grandfather was Methodist and he was displayed in an open casket for the viewing and the opening parts of the funeral, and it was closed about five minutes into the funeral.

Same for my grandma, and she was Presbyterian, I think. Same for my uncles and aunt, but I have no clue what they were, although I know it's not Catholic.

33girl 04-05-2005 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Methodists and several branches of Lutherans do this too.

I have a lot of Protestant friends. :p

Oh yeah - it's not the open casket itself that I'm objecting to, I've been going to viewings since I was 5 and they don't fase me a bit. It's just that a photo of someone dead in their casket kind of gives me the creeps for whatever reason.

IowaStatePhiPsi is right though - in the Victorian era, taking pics was very common and that was sometimes the ONLY photo people ever had of a loved one since photography was quite a bit more expensive then. I guess I would have been a very bad Victorian. :)

Taualumna 04-06-2005 12:12 AM

Apparently there have been popes from Africa before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_popes

http://www.nbccongress.org/black-cat...ican-popes.asp

IowaStatePhiPsi 04-06-2005 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kstar
I didn't agree with some of his veiws, but he did a lot of good in some areas.
So did Hitler (depression economy recovery, anyone?)

ADqtPiMel 04-06-2005 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
So did Hitler (depression economy recovery, anyone?)
You are seriously AWFUL. Can you please back off and just let us grieve him without your snarky little comments every five seconds? I don't care that you disagree with my church, but have a little respect for crying out loud.

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Much of the world is grieving. Open your eyes and make your point at a time when people are willing to listen.

Put your agenda in your pocket for a few days.

To many, the Pope is much like a family member. You wouldn't attack somebody's grandfather when he had just passed away.

I dunno, DeltAlum - I would have been more concerned if IowaStatePhiPsi *didn't* post something like this. It's one of the few constants in life: some people are just not happy unless they are causing an uproar.

Considering how much of the coverage has spilled over into the truly tasteless this is pretty minor IMHO. (But not everyone is allowed to say that, right gang?)

--add

Peaches-n-Cream 04-06-2005 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ADqtPiMel
You are seriously AWFUL. Can you please back off and just let us grieve him without your snarky little comments every five seconds? I don't care that you disagree with my church, but have a little respect for crying out loud.
Ditto this!

ISPP, please knock it off. Thanks.

honeychile 04-06-2005 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, I don't know if this squicks anyone else out, but can we please stop with the photos (on the front page of the paper no less) of the Pope LYING IN STATE??

Yes, I know he's going to be seen by gajillions of people, but it's one thing to view someone in real life and another to see a photo. Yuk!

Okay, I'm going to REALLY squick you out!!

All my life, I have been told that I look just like my maternal grandmother, I act like she, I have the same likes/dislikes as she, I could twist my granddaddy around my little finger just like she, etc, etc. She died several years before I was even born (she was only 55), and we are both equally camera shy.

Up until two years ago, the ONLY photo I had ever seen of her was - yep, in her casket. Of course, when I was little and they told me I was just like her, I cried, because I thought of that funeral photo. Now that I've seen some real photos of my grandmother, and I can see what they're all talking about.

Damn, she was a good looking lady! ;)

Further squicking...

I still regret that we didn't get a photo of my daddy when he died. :( It was so sudden, we forgot so much...

Edited to add that she & I were/are Baptists, since we're stating religions here. My daddy was Assembly of God.

ZTABullwinkle 04-06-2005 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
Ditto this!

ISPP, please knock it off. Thanks.


I am so glad someone posted this before I did. I don't agree with everything the Pope said or did, but I can respect what he did while Pope. No one said Catholicsm is perfect!

Let us just have some time to mourn him, like mentioned, before the news media and others start pushing how screwed up his beliefs are.

Excuse me...I have a soapbox to climb off of...

<<end of rant>>

ADqtPiMel 04-06-2005 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile


Further squicking...

I still regret that we didn't get a photo of my daddy when he died. :( It was so sudden, we forgot so much...

Do you have photos of him from when he was alive, or are you just wishing you had a casket photo?

My grandmother was very camera shy and we only have 2 pictures of her...one as a child and one at my mom's graduation. I wish we had more.

honeychile 04-06-2005 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ADqtPiMel
Do you have photos of him from when he was alive, or are you just wishing you had a casket photo?

My grandmother was very camera shy and we only have 2 pictures of her...one as a child and one at my mom's graduation. I wish we had more.

We have photos of him alive, but now he's the only member of our family that we don't have in his casket. I guess it does sound morbid, but it's just something my mother's family has done for generations. I know this is a total hijack, but my mother carries his wedding band with her EVERYWHERE. It was even pinned to her gurney when she had her bypass last year. In this time of so many marriages not making it, I can actually get excited that my parents loved each other so much!

But you hit the nail on the head, Mel - no matter how camera shy, there are never enough photos of the people you love.

honeychile 04-06-2005 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZTABullwinkle
I am so glad someone posted this before I did. I don't agree with everything the Pope said or did, but I can respect what he did while Pope. No one said Catholicsm is perfect!

Let us just have some time to mourn him, like mentioned, before the news media and others start pushing how screwed up his beliefs are.

Excuse me...I have a soapbox to climb off of...

<<end of rant>>

May I just add one thing? I'm not a Catholic, either, but the Pope represents millions of people around the world. No one is asking anyone else to rend their clothing and sit shiva or such.

But allow those around you to mourn. It's one of the more important things you can learn to do in life. At some time in everyone's life, one will mourn a loss, and you'll need someone to be there for you, just as you have the opportunity to be there for others now.

adduncan 04-06-2005 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
May I just add one thing? I'm not a Catholic, either, but the Pope represents millions of people around the world. No one is asking anyone else to rend their clothing and sit shiva or such.

But allow those around you to mourn. It's one of the more important things you can learn to do in life. At some time in everyone's life, one will mourn a loss, and you'll need someone to be there for you, just as you have the opportunity to be there for others now.

Amen. I don't like getting kicked when I'm down either. Unfortunately, some people are too eager to do just that, every chance they get. :(

--add

ADqtPiMel 04-06-2005 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
We have photos of him alive, but now he's the only member of our family that we don't have in his casket. I guess it does sound morbid, but it's just something my mother's family has done for generations.
That's a really interesting tradition.

RACooper 04-06-2005 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
So did Hitler (depression economy recovery, anyone?)
Damn sometimes you can be such an ignorant asshole...

RACooper 04-06-2005 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Why is our federal government mourning his death in the same way we honor our leaders. [/B]
Actually a national flag can be displayed at half-staff in honour of any world leader - and for any individual deemed worth of the honour by the head of state or governing body.

So the US has flags at half-staff, so do many other countries around the world (Canada being one).

KSigkid 04-06-2005 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum

I think this is who many believe could be the first black Pope:

"Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria has been mentioned as a candidate to be the first African Pope."

This is the name that I've been hearing about as well. He's been mentioned in nearly every story I've read about a next Pope.

Also, ISPP...where do you get off comparing the Pope to Hitler? If you don't want to honor his life, that's fine - but respect those who are mourning his death.

MysticCat 04-06-2005 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OohTeenyWahine
I'm guessing it's a Catholic thing.

I've been to many a Catholic funeral and it's always been open casket for the viewing.

It's common in the South, too.

MysticCat 04-06-2005 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
So did Hitler (depression economy recovery, anyone?)
Invoking Godwin's Law on ISPP. :rolleyes:

DeltAlum 04-06-2005 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Invoking Godwin's Law on ISPP. :rolleyes:
Great law. John should write it into the TOS.

KSigkid 04-06-2005 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Invoking Godwin's Law on ISPP. :rolleyes:
Great drop-in...it could probably be applied to some other threads on the board.

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Remember when you attacked a Catholic and assumed he was non-Catholic and couldn't speak on the pope or Catholicism?

-Rudey
--Not as bad as IowaStatePhiPsi, but funnier given that you converted to Catholicism.

I wasn't doing the attacking - unlike you, who know nothing else.

Regardless of what you think (IF you think) I'm a teacher, I have to be up-to-date on these things, and I don't have the luxury of making things up to suit my world view.

Go back to harrassing DSTCHAOS. She seems to enjoy it.

Rudey 04-06-2005 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
I wasn't doing the attacking - unlike you, who know nothing else.

Regardless of what you think (IF you think) I'm a teacher, I have to be up-to-date on these things, and I don't have the luxury of making things up to suit my world view.

Go back to harrassing DSTCHAOS. She seems to enjoy it.

Ummm DSTCHAOS is on my ignore list and I don't talk to her so I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure she's fine with that as well though. Another mistake by you, a "teacher".

Again, remember when you attacked a Catholic because you thought he wasn't Catholic?

Again, remember when you said non-Catholics can't speak?

Again, remember how you forgot how you used to be a non-Catholic?

-Rudey

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Ummm DSTCHAOS is on my ignore list and I don't talk to her so I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure she's fine with that as well though. Another mistake by you, a "teacher".

Again, remember when you attacked a Catholic because you thought he wasn't Catholic?

Again, remember when you said non-Catholics can't speak?

Again, remember how you forgot how you used to be a non-Catholic?

-Rudey

The best liars mix a little bit of truth in every lie to make it easier for some to swallow. You are an excellent liar.

Twisting my words wont make me change what I *actually* said.

Now go back to getting your negative attention from the Kazo folks. Better yet, get some medication for the borderline personality disorder you suffer from.

Rudey 04-06-2005 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
The best liars mix a little bit of truth in every lie to make it easier for some to swallow. You are an excellent liar.

Twisting my words wont make me change what I *actually* said.

Now go back to getting your negative attention from the Kazo folks. Better yet, get some medication for the borderline personality disorder you suffer from.

Let me provide quotes for you since you edited your post:

Remember when you essentially said a Catholic wasn't Catholic and used the words "if you're not Catholic"?

Remember when you essentially said non-Catholics can't speak
and used the words "Being inspired is great, but if you're not Catholic, let's not try to teach what any pope has allegedly taught"?

And let me guess, next you'll deny converting to Catholicism right?

You also probably forgot how many people, including several Catholics, were upset by what you said and how you changed your post huh?

And again, I have Kazo people on ignore and haven't spoken to any and both they and I are fine with that. Are you going to lie and make up anything else?

-Rudey

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Let me provide quotes for you since you edited your post:

Remember when you essentially said a Catholic wasn't Catholic and used the words "if you're not Catholic"?

Remember when you essentially said non-Catholics can't speak
and used the words "Being inspired is great, but if you're not Catholic, let's not try to teach what any pope has allegedly taught"?

And let me guess, next you'll deny converting to Catholicism right?

You also probably forgot how many people, including several Catholics, were upset by what you said and how you changed your post huh?

And again, I have Kazo people on ignore and haven't spoken to any and both they and I are fine with that. Are you going to lie and make up anything else?

-Rudey

I doubt anyone was "upset". Like you, there are certain folks who like to zero in on someone to attack, so they did. I doubt it was a moral outrage.

If you have Kazo people on ignore, why did you reply to their posts so often?

It is just so *cute* how you are obsessed with my life! I could spell out all the details for you, but that would ruin your little treasure hunting fun. Go ahead, what else can you find out that isn't readily obvious? Im' proud to be your latest obsession (after DSTCHAOS, RA Cooper, and BGLOs.)

See you in your dreams!
;)

Rudey 04-06-2005 12:37 PM

Read my post earlier.

Read the quotes I put earlier of your words.

Read the posts earlier about how Catholics were upset and how you even changed your posts.

Read how you have me on ignore in another thread and look how you can't stop talking to me.

You're not too good at making accusations when your words are quoted and you've edited your posts. But keep replying to a guy you have on ignore because I'm sure someone might believe you at some point haha.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
I doubt anyone was "upset". Like you, there are certain folks who like to zero in on someone to attack, so they did. I doubt it was a moral outrage.

If you have Kazo people on ignore, why did you reply to their posts so often?

It is just so *cute* how you are obsessed with my life! I could spell out all the details for you, but that would ruin your little treasure hunting fun. Go ahead, what else can you find out that isn't readily obvious? Im' proud to be your latest obsession (after DSTCHAOS, RA Cooper, and BGLOs.)

See you in your dreams!
;)


adduncan 04-06-2005 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Read my post earlier.

Read the quotes I put earlier of your words.

Read the posts earlier about how Catholics were upset and how you even changed your posts.

Read how you have me on ignore in another thread and look how you can't stop talking to me.

You're not too good at making accusations when your words are quoted and you've edited your posts. But keep replying to a guy you have on ignore because I'm sure someone might believe you at some point haha.

-Rudey

You're still cute! You must be sitting by the computer just searching out every post I ever wrote. (I guess you didn't think that I am perfectly capable of changing my mind of who I ignore...) Do you have my posts memorized? Did you copy and paste them to a double-secret file on your hard drive? Do you read my posts every night before bed to remember every single word? Do they keep you up at night?
I've head that being stalked is scary, but I think this is just adorable!

Kisses!

Rudey 04-06-2005 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
You're still cute! You must be sitting by the computer just searching out every post I ever wrote. (I guess you didn't think that I am perfectly capable of changing my mind of who I ignore...) Do you have my posts memorized? Did you copy and paste them to a double-secret file on your hard drive? Do you read my posts every night before bed to remember every single word? Do they keep you up at night?
I've head that being stalked is scary, but I think this is just adorable!

Kisses!

LOL so when people quote you in this thread you accuse them of memorizing your posts and side-step the truth. OK.

-Rudey
--adduncan sits in her highchair next to IowaStatePhiPsi

KSig RC 04-06-2005 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Twisting my words wont make me change what I *actually* said.

You were, at the least, excessively hypocritical in your earlier dealings with cashmoney, and MULTIPLE Catholics derided you for your insular thinking. Or were they all wrong, as well?

Here's a hint: parts of what cashmoney said were correct in spirit, if not detail. Why deny that the church has had problems? That's what you're doing by denying others the ability to comment on the actions of possibly the largest, most influential organization on the planet. It's a joke.

The passing of the Pope is a worldwide event - the position is amazingly influential, much more so than most world leaders. The gestures, statements, and edicts coming from the papacy have strong influence on the lives of most Americans, even non-Catholics. Look outside - the flags fly at half-mast, and rightly so.

John Paul II, while not necessarily 'liberal' as Americans would define the term, certainly did well to push positive and important action in the Church, and saw it through some rough times - I respect the man a great deal, he handled a massive position with grace and steadfastness to his religion, even if I disagree with many policies in specific. His passing is truly an event, and not just for you, duncan, but for everyone. The next Pope will have the same immense influence, and as such it is necessary, nay important, for even non-Catholics to pay attention. You can cut on Rudey all you want, but you're strawmanning (and as a teacher, you should know that you're doing it, and it's intellectually dishonest).

-RC
--again, I present for you: Galileo (forgiven in 1981, nihil obstat/imprimatur granted in 2004 if my memory serves . . . original findings in 1615, and everyone can discuss this)

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
LOL so when people quote you in this thread you accuse them of memorizing your posts and side-step the truth. OK.

-Rudey
--adduncan sits in her highchair next to IowaStatePhiPsi

Who's sidestepping now????
There are just some days when you need a little offbeat fun. Since "inappropriate" is in the eye of the beholder, today is your day.

If I was just as obsessed, I could track down each and every post you made, pick out the parts that emphasize your mental weaknesses, and paste them as I please. But that's not fun for me today.

Go ahead and insult me. It's nothing new, nothing you don't do to anyone else if it suits you. It doesn't change the day I'm having or how I live my life. It also doesn't change what my friends think, or most importantly, what *I* think. So what have you really accomplished?

Rudey 04-06-2005 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Who's sidestepping now????
There are just some days when you need a little offbeat fun. Since "inappropriate" is in the eye of the beholder, today is your day.

If I was just as obsessed, I could track down each and every post you made, pick out the parts that emphasize your mental weaknesses, and paste them as I please. But that's not fun for me today.

Go ahead and insult me. It's nothing new, nothing you don't do to anyone else if it suits you. It doesn't change the day I'm having or how I live my life. It also doesn't change what my friends think, or most importantly, what *I* think. So what have you really accomplished?

Umm keep up with the accusations of people insulting you when it was you that insulted others and you that keeps doing so by saying I now have "mental weaknesses". It's great that people quoted your posts so even though you changed them they can read them and judge for themselves, like they already did.

-Rudey
--It's like watching Oprah: "My friends still love me"

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
You were, at the least, excessively hypocritical in your earlier dealings with cashmoney, and MULTIPLE Catholics derided you for your insular thinking. Or were they all wrong, as well?

Here's a hint: parts of what cashmoney said were correct in spirit, if not detail. Why deny that the church has had problems? That's what you're doing by denying others the ability to comment on the actions of possibly the largest, most influential organization on the planet. It's a joke.

The passing of the Pope is a worldwide event - the position is amazingly influential, much more so than most world leaders. The gestures, statements, and edicts coming from the papacy have strong influence on the lives of most Americans, even non-Catholics. Look outside - the flags fly at half-mast, and rightly so.

John Paul II, while not necessarily 'liberal' as Americans would define the term, certainly did well to push positive and important action in the Church, and saw it through some rough times - I respect the man a great deal, he handled a massive position with grace and steadfastness to his religion, even if I disagree with many policies in specific. His passing is truly an event, and not just for you, duncan, but for everyone. The next Pope will have the same immense influence, and as such it is necessary, nay important, for even non-Catholics to pay attention. You can cut on Rudey all you want, but you're strawmanning (and as a teacher, you should know that you're doing it, and it's intellectually dishonest).

-RC
--again, I present for you: Galileo (forgiven in 1981, nihil obstat/imprimatur granted in 2004 if my memory serves . . . original findings in 1615, and everyone can discuss this)

1) My initial post was an *opinion* - that thing we're supposed to have without reprisal. If you don't like it, no problem, but you climbed all over me about it, just like your buddy Rudey. I also said it was coming from a very emotional state, but that didn't matter to you, did it?

2) Gallileo? The best example you can come up with of a "problem" is over 400 years old.

3) I'm not going to take instruction on how to post on a bulletin board from someone who calls himself "kind of a dick".

You can harrangue me all day, kiddies. I'm not changing what I think because I'm entitled to think what I do. What are you going to accomplish?

Rudey 04-06-2005 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
1) My initial post was an *opinion* - that thing we're supposed to have without reprisal. If you don't like it, no problem, but you climbed all over me about it, just like your buddy Rudey. I also said it was coming from a very emotional state, but that didn't matter to you, did it?

2) Gallileo? The best example you can come up with of a "problem" is over 400 years old.

3) I'm not going to take instruction on how to post on a bulletin board from someone who calls himself "kind of a dick".

You can harrangue me all day, kiddies. I'm not changing what I think because I'm entitled to think what I do. What are you going to accomplish?

You're not going to change what you think but you edited your post LOL

-Rudey
--Keep insulting me about my mental weaknesses now hahaha

adduncan 04-06-2005 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
You're not going to change what you think but you edited your post LOL

-Rudey
--Keep insulting me about my mental weaknesses now hahaha

Changing a post does not equal changing what I think.

I should have done this earlier! Getting the adrenaline out is great!

Hey Rudey, what else are you going to pin on me today? This one thread is pretty limited.

KSig RC 04-06-2005 01:01 PM

Apparently I got much more out of my BU education than you did, Ms. Duncan - now put on the conical cap:



Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
1) My initial post was an *opinion* - that thing we're supposed to have without reprisal. If you don't like it, no problem, but you climbed all over me about it, just like your buddy Rudey. I also said it was coming from a very emotional state, but that didn't matter to you, did it?
- opinions are still subject to the rules of hypocrisy and proper discussion/respect for others

- emotional response is a very poor excuse.

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
2) Gallileo? The best example you can come up with of a "problem" is over 400 years old.
No, that's not even close to the best example, but it's a pretty blatant one that is non-offensive to most - and the 400-yrs-old part is the PROBLEM, not the excuse.

I'm sure you can come up with the best example - hint: it started in the 60s, and was systematically covered up until a few years ago.

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
3) I'm not going to take instruction on how to post on a bulletin board from someone who calls himself "kind of a dick".
Do you, ace, but you were being "completely a dick" earlier - irony is beautiful.

adduncan 04-06-2005 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
<snipped for brevity>
Do you, ace, but you were being "completely a dick" earlier - irony is beautiful.

Hmmmmmm......let's see the results of this post.....

Has it scared me away from GC?

No.

Have I changed any of my opinions on this thread or others?

No.

Has it intimidated me so much that I need to hide from these detractors?

No.

Is it possible to discuss any of the points brought up in any kind of academic detail on this board?

No.

So what exactly did your post accomplish, RC? If throwing insults and rude comments around makes you feel better, then I hope you got what you wanted. But it's not coming from me.


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