I agree that it can send the wrong message when members aren't clear on the direction of the organization.

carol9a:

I'm very confused about your frustration. It seems that you're misunderstanding what the posts on this thread are saying!! I can't tell which organization you are a member of. (Is it Latina? If so, how have your members dealt with the issues you're bringing up? That might be a good way to educate the rest of us from the inside looking out.)

Regarding changes in the thrusts of organizations, I was thinking about starting a new thread on this, but since this one is active, let's just discuss it here.

Is it really ok for members of an organization to change the mission/purpose/creed/etc.? If an org started as an AGLO/LGLO/BGLO/MCGLO and is now considered "historically" AGLO/LGLO/BGLO/MCGLO, is it ok revamp?

Let's say, for example, an MCGLO has a majority of African-American members in 50 years. Would it be ok to change it from an MCGLO to a non-discriminating BGLO? You'd have to change the purpose, mission statement and other relevant components, wouldn't you?

Or is it better to maintain the org that the founders created, letting new members (regardless of "race") know that the org will focus on the concerns of all people even though the membership is mostly African American.

It's either one or the other - it cannot be both. To clarify, I'm referring strictly to already existing orgs...I suppose if you start a new org, you can say that it has no specific focus at all and will choose philanthropies and other elements based on something else altogether.

Edited because I confused myself!

Well, there are some NPC sororities that have changed their "thrusts" over the years. ASA, AST, SSS were all social-educational sororities and if I'm not mistaken, AXO was focused on music. I think that we all found over the years that we felt limited and wanted to expand our membership to everyone, not just those in a particular field of study.

Of course that's not the same thing, but I thought it was an interesting side note.

That IS really interesting! When the changes occured, do you know if these organization also changed their official purposes?

Carol9a:

Now, don't take this the wrong way, but your comments really are indicative of a person who is not yet in a sorority (LGLO, MCGLO, or otherwise). If you were already a member, I seriously doubt you would be making some of the assertions that you are, and you wouldn't be making some of the assumptions that you are (i.e. that only the sororities who market to a broad range of ethnicities are successful - and to you, successful apparently = many chapters, but hey, everyone is entitled to her opinion!).

What you need to understand (if you are in fact invited to pursue membership in an organization) is that everyone does things differently and each organization is obviously "right" for someone. You also need to understand that if you are invited to pursue membership in an LGLO, you are going to have to serve the community for which you seem to have some disdain for (again, just going off of your own previous comments in this thread). Being in an LGLO is not about partying, strolling, and wearing letters. It is about hard work and being the best person you can be. If you are only in it to have fun, you are going to have a long road ahead. You have indicated which organization you intend to pursue (which was a mistake, in my opinion, because the sisters read these boards). I am very familiar with that organization, and they work REALLY, REALLY hard, all across the country. I hope for your sake and theirs that you are ready for what is to come should they decide to accept you.

As far as comparing my comment about the sadness in members of the same org. not knowing what to call themselves: to compare it to hazing or drinking in letters is irrelevant here. The topic is MCGLOs, not hazing or drinking. I have no idea why you would even bring those things up in the conversation.

My only advice is to do some more research, calm down, and remember that the sisters of the organization that you want to join are likely reading what you write. Good luck!

Well, I can only speak for ASA (and I hope if I get something wrong Miami Alpha corrects me ;) ) but our aims and creed have remained the same throughout the years and throughout our AES and NPC memberships. Our purpose and mission statements are relatively new (as they are for most NPCs).

Oops, this must have been the "other" Carol9a, then, because you said you have never once mentioned a particular sorority:

carol9a
Member


Registered: Sep 2004
Location: The heart of Texas
Posts: 84


quote:
Originally posted by audaz49
yes, we do have a creed....... there's the answer to your question.


Thanks for your answer! Im wanting to rush SLG and was wanting to know more about it. I wish more Gammas would post here!
Thanks again



__________________
Some call me delightfully saucy.





:confused: I would say SLG is a particular sorority.


Again, you have misunderstood much of what is being said in this thread, and most of what I said to you. You bring up issues that I never implied nor stated, so I'm just going to let it go. Best wishes to you.

This does lead me to believe that the aims and creeds were made to be general. If, however, they were more specific (e.g. to advance South-Asian women) it might be more difficult to make adjustments. You've brought up a great point.

What happened here?!?!?!
 

After reading all the discussion, I think a few of us here understand what others are trying to say and a few seem to not.

When I said that it bothered me to see a few LGLOs make a switch on who they were marketing to, I was trying to get across that a few orgs I know HAVE kept with the values/reason/principles/creed, etc that their founders started with and have just accepted non-Hispanics into their sisterhood/brotherhood because that non-Hispanic saw something in the LGLO that was a fit for them. THis iis one of the main reaons someone who join a MCGLO.

However, there are also those GLO that have tried to test the MC waters because they've seen the success that MCGLO have been having (ex. having Hispanic membership along with other ethnic groups). These are the groups that bother me.

I agree with LatinaAlumna, it looks like disorder in an org. when one members says the org is this and another member is saying the org. is that. I've witnessed this myself with an org that many I know consider HLGLO.....both members at the same time said (in an open forum) "We are a Latina/MC org"

This is like a few members of the same org going around saying they belong to an "Honor Society" and the others saying they belong to a "Social" org. The org could be both, but marketing should be unified.

I didn't mean to get people heated, but when you hear older members of orgs I'm giving examples of say that they aren't pleased with the new route their orgs are going, I only think its fair to bring all sides of the issue out.

You make several great points PhDiva. I have seen all the things you've mentioned happen on my campus. Even though my sorority is historically black, I have met many sorors who are not African American. In my chapter alone, I have a soror who is a Nigerian/Dutch citizen, and another soror that is Indian and Portuguese. I say this to make the point that prospectives shouldn't join a group because it's historically whatever. They should choose the group that fits their goals, ideals, and morals.

Note to GC:

LatinaAlumna NEVER EVER EVER uses the word "Hispanic" nor does she use the word "hate," and especially would not (and did not) say them together.

She would also NEVER use the word "RUSH" when referring to an LGLO process, because she refrains from randomly throwing around terminology--that usually leads to trouble.

And...LA cannot and will not take credit for bringing up LGLOs into this discussion (although I would have been proud if I did). It was relevant and valid, and brought up by AbsoluteZChi--and I think it added much to the discussion that the members were having.

Critical thinking is a valuable skill that we should all remember to use. If you can't remember what someone said, please don't paraphrase it to suit your current needs. Go back and read it over until you understand. :)

Most likely the reason most of us refer to most GLO's as historically white or white GLO's is because historically you are. There have been may discussions on this board of how blacks and other minorities were not accepted into GLO's for simply not being white. So its not to disrespect you but to clarify and bring a distinction to the different makeups of GLO's, whether black, multicultural, etc.

We should respect what they prefer to be called. We all have umbrella councils -- let's let that be the distinction.

Thank you Senusret!

Just as Reds6, there have been many threads discussing discrimination in all governing council's groups. There has also been discussed NUMEROUS times that making a blanket statement such as WGLO is false in many cases, not accurate to this day, disrepectful to non-white "WGLO" members, and also, really, how fair is it? None of us were around where around when that discrimination took place, so why do we all have to get labeled as such? Most of us are from pretty well integrated groups, perhaps even more integrated than non-"WGLO".

What's so hard about calling groups by their proper council names, NPC and IFC, etc? There is absolutely NO reason to use WGLO.

Respect goes both ways. If you can't respect the requests of many to not use the moniker "WGLO", why should members of that group respect your requests and preferences?

thank you senusret!

33girl is right in that most NPC orgs have recently gone the "vision/mission" route. That wasn't always the case. It all comes down to the new marketing of NPC/NIC organizations as values based, which was something that got a little lost along the way through our histories.

Hmmm....let me see if I can explain this....it's just doing more conscious explaining of what a sorority is, what it hopes to accomplish and what it stands for because the groups have come to realize that not everyone knows that.

It's the same in any business - hardly any corporations had official "mission statements" back in the 1950's or so.

No disrespect, but it doesn't really matter to me how you a referred. I was just explaining why the terminology is used. I'm not offended by being referred to as an African-American or Black sorority, because historically that what we are and hopefully will continue to maintain a majority African-American presence in my organization. Why saw that, because I know the history behind why AA GLO where founded. But lets not kid ourselves and think that all GLO's are accepting of minorities, in the past,present and will be in the future. Having 1 or 2 members with ethnic backgrounds isn't that great after you have been in existence for over a hundred years. Again this isn't all, but a lot. I think multicultural and NPHC organizations are present for reasons historical and beyond. Belong where you believe you best fit in, I have no problem withthat and I think its your right, but I thinktheir is a need for organiztions they represent and perserve your culture and belief systems. Its almost saying, why have, baptist, catholics, etc, they are all christians.

I think why a few of us are a little uneasy about our organizations being called "historically white" (and I can't speak for everyone) is because some of our GLO's were founded upon welcoming all races, creeds, religions, etc. into our membership. I understand that a lot of the NPC's (or what people are calling the "historically white" sororities) were founded for Caucasians... but like I said, not all of them were. And so blanketing the WHOLE conference like that is disrespectful, because it's as though you don't want to learn about how different our organizations really are.

If most of your OLDER GLO's were founded at schools during a time when minorities weren't allowed to attend, then they are historically white GLO's. Who else was there to join? Again not trying to be disrespectful and call yourself what you want I'm just trying to clarify why we oftern refer to you as historically or white.

I understand your intensions were not rude, but clarification of why members of non-NPC orgs call us "historically white" doesn't excuse the disrespect that some of us feel, when we're all thrown into that generalization.

I think both of us are coming from two different sides of this; you're org was founded for African American women at a predominantly African American university, while mine was designed to "promote open membership to all women of character regardless of background." So you may not think that there's anything bad about being called "historically black", "white", etc. but in my case, the only thing Phi Sigma Sigma should be referred to, if not as just an NPC organization, is as "historically diverse" (or something similar) fraternity.

And what year was your organization founded?

Same as yours. 1913

Looking at history as a continuum and seeing the number of caucasians that, throughout time, have entered NPC orgs, I can understand why people would call NPC orgs "Historically White/Caucasian." But, I do agree that it might be appropriate to call each other by the titles that we prefer.

I know I'm guilty of being mildly irritated when someone left out the "multicultural" in Theta Nu Xi Multicultural Sorority, Inc.

First wonderful year! :D

But I'll assume none of my family could have joined your organization in 1913, unless they were white, whick makes it historically...

It is good to know a bit of history;this always makes it easier to contextualize and make sense of this terminology. If I'm not mistaken, in the early part of the last century,in the realm of Greek life and exclusionary policies, withinin the "caucasian" system,the real issue revolved around the exclusion of Jews. Groups like Phi Sigma Sigma, I believe(correct me if I'm wrong!), came into existence in light of this reality. There seems to be an analogy to the present day development of the MCGLO, of which some are partially Latino-based. Similarly, there developed GLOs that had a mission as Jewish groups and those that were more ecumenical in focus,like Pi Lambda Phi Fraternity and Phi Sigma Sigma. So in a sense, both sides are right:blacks and Latinos basically weren't in the mix in the development of groups like Phi Sigma Sigma, and they did have open admission policies.


The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers, but in men, in real brotherhood."--Bro. Walter H. Mazyck,Esq, The Oracle 1925,Omega Psi Phi.

I will admit, I would have not been invited into my organization back in the days. However, SigEp has evolved from having a policy that was racially restrictive to one that not only outlaw discrimination due to race, religion, creed, but we have also outlaw discrimination due to sexual orientation. I'm not comfortable calling my organizatio WGLO. If you prefer to to call it that, there is nothing that I can do. However, I would request that you call my organization a NIC fraternity.

I'd have to agree.

Because they create formal cliques for themselves
 

as an asian american, i had to decide whether to join a MGLC or a NPC chapter and I chose an NPC because I wanted to diversity of women as well as the formality of it. Also, I didn't want to suffer the incessant hazing that goes on within Asian-American interest sororities on my campus. Not only does hazing occur, but it is accepted because they use the excuse that it is for "cultural reasons" of which my campus's greek life refuses to argue against for fear that we are discriminating against them. In addition, to my knowledge, i find that they do not help advance asian-american interest or expand the knowledge of others. what i do notice is far too much underage drinking from them while they are wearing their letters because it is supposedly cool to be drunk and representing their chapter.

i am not saying this is representative of all chapters, but i have yet to see what these asian-american interest sororities have done for asian-american men and women. all i see are underage drinking parties and women who were already friends joining the same sorority so they can create a formal clique that others cannot be a part of.

i am not trying to offend any other multicultural glos, because i am not sure what those are like, but i just wanted to share what goes on at my campus.

Re: Because they create formal cliques for themselves
 

I could disagree with you on quite a few points, but I'll choose to disagree with the point that they "create formal cliques for themselves". I gather the same could be said about your sorority or any other sorority for that matter.

Is it really necessary for people to go into why they joined NPC or IFC over a MGLO,etc and vice versa? It doesn't matter.

DO YOU. How many times do I have to say that unless there are individuals willing to pay your dues then who cares what they think!

I *heart* TheEpitome1920 :)

Re: Re: Because they create formal cliques for themselves
 

Just to play devil's advocate, I think the point she is trying to make is that the women who join all already know each other and hang out together - as opposed to meeting new people in rush and asking them to join. Kinda like if everyone on the seventh floor of a dorm would start calling themselves 7 Delta or something. :)

It seems as if this conversation is about cultural interest glos and not actual multicultural glos??

i think i am confused by what you mean by multicultural, and how we are discussing cultural? i guess what i see it as is that there are multicultural glos, however, they all represent one culture only (either african american, latino, asian, etc).

to clarify, i mean that on my campus, basically, an entire pledge class will be of people who all knew each other before, decided to rush the same house together and pledge together. i have been told that due to the hazing, they create great bonds with each other, but not with the upperclassmen in the chapter who did the hazing on them.

also, the mission statements of most MGLOs is to unify people of the same culture while expanding the interest and knowledge of others regarding their culture. However, i have failed to see this occur.

yes, NPC sororities are similar in that they create cliques, however, the cliques are naturally created by people who have met each other while pledging and then became friends. i agree that there are NPCs that are solely social, but there are also many who do a great deal of what their mission stands for.

i am just trying to see what the purpose of MGLOs are. i think its very important to have cultural-interest groups, however, i am unsure the purpose of having multicultural greek groups are for. in the real world, we are put into environments filled with people of all races and cultures, and MGLOs do not prepare people for that situation.

i am sure there are mglos which do prepare their men and women for the future, but how? what do they do? i am just curious regarding that. and by preparation, i mean in ways other than creating networks with alumns.

Doesnt Multicultual GLOs = People who are from different Cultures just as say LGLOs or AGLOs are= trying to find people that they feel comforable with? Is this any different than any Greek Organization is trying to do?

So, I am trying to figure out what the big deal is!

"multicultural glos, however, they all represent one culture only" is a contradiction, don't you think? I am the first to say that ALL glos are multicultural because they are composed of many different cultures and sub-cultures. My point is that a multicultural glo's mission statement includes the intention to bring together many different cultures and sub-cultures. Asian-interest, African-American-interest, Latin-interest are cultural interest orgs, so I can understand why, to the outside, they might look cliquey since so many members are from the "same culture." But, the entire point of multicultural glos is to avoid that. (Let me also say that I disagree that cultural interest glos particularly breed cliquiness.)

Again, the truth is just the opposite. Multicultural organizations attempt to unify ALL cultures. Cultural interest organizations "unify people of the same culture while expanding the interest and knowledge of others regarding their culture."

Thus why multicultural orgs are becoming so popular.

**From what you have written, I'm afraid that 1) you are buying into the "white glo" myth and 2) you are saying that caucasians are not multicultural.

Aside from the terminological problem in using the the term "MCGLO" that the young lady who decided not to pledge a Asian American-interest sorority, this simply reflected, as she states, the realities on her campus that she disagreed with. But if you take a historical look at the development of all Greek groups,you will find a commonality:the mushrooming of GLOs due to social class and other similar factors that can be subsummed under the umbrella of "petty cliquishness" and the reaction against this often in forming other groups. For example, Sigma Chi developed out of problems like this. Among the NPHC-members groups, this was a factor in the development of several BGLOs. One of the founders of my Fraternity,Omega Psi Phi, once talked of his impressions of the "other fraternity" on campus at the time. He characterized it as a "social club" not a fraternity, and that the members were "bigots." (This is among African Americans,mind you!) Thus, however this dynamic is played out, among NPC,NIC,NPHC,MCGLOs,etc., it's "American as apple pie.")

"The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers, but in men, in real brotherhood."--Bro. Walter H. Mazyck,Esq. The Oracle,1925,Omega Psi Phi

thanks everyone for their commenting to help bring to light on this issue.

but once again, my main concern is: are the multicultural organizations fulfilling the purpose that is argues for?

For example, one asian-interest sorority states the following mission:

Our mission is to provide sisterhood among women, scholarship, leadership and Asian awareness in the University and community.

Based solely on my campus and the fact that I know many women within this chapter, I am still quite confused as to where the awareness comes about. Yes, greek life is supposed to help unite people and give them a place they can call a second home. However, it should also provide something beyond sisterhood and brotherhood - that is to help each other raise awareness for their chapter's cause as well as support each other not just emotionally, but give each other opportunities for leadership and scholarship.

I do understand that many MGLCs have historically been created because they could not find a place for themselves within the NPC and IFC. However, isn't the problem with America is that there is too much segregation and not enough unification? I think that for MGLCs to promote their missions, NPC, IFC, etc need to work with them as partners in created awareness for a need to diversify Greek Life.

Back to my confusion, what is the purpose of MGLC? I just hope that the formal mission statement is something that is achieved and not just words written on a website or in a book. It is easier to say something that it is to actually do it.

Based upon my campus, it truly bothers me that the depiction of Asian-American women are women who constantly are drinking, partying, and showing very little effort in their supposed philanthropies and causes. What upsets me the most personally is the hazing I hear from my friends within these chapters, who remain in the chapter for fear of alienation from their peers, and deal with the hazing because they want to have the letters associated with the organization - not because it strives to show others the ambition, scholarship, and leadership of Asian American women everywhere - but because its "cool."

As college organizations, we need to work harder to diversify Greek life. Bring multicultural orgs and historically "white" chapters together, and have them work to provide better awareness of such issues onto their own campus.

I am very interested to what goes on with regards to what goes on across the country. I just hope that ALL Greeks can get a better reputation for themselves on their campus and across the country.