Admitting that some members of your gender can do terrible things does not equal misogyny. God knows the guys have to do it on a regular basis around here.

Um...not so much in my "circle." I actually dont know very many Hispanic people who DO find that ok, but maybe its a difference in nationalities or neighborhoods as far as this goes. I sure hope so anyways.
But thats a whole different thread anyways...




and I agree with pretty much everything sugarandspice said.

Excuse me? I am neither paranoid nor delusional. I have far more experience in the college arena than you have, having been a professor for 25 years and a college student through 3 degrees.

I would never paint all fraternity members as angels nor would I paint all independent men as angels. I would say they're about the same on the angelic ladder.

The reason I think that the letter is fake is that, as I mentioned, no rational mother is going to sit around and debate with herself as to whether it was rape. She'll take the daughter for medical help and/or go to the police but she won't sit around and compose a letter to Dear Abby and wait weeks for an answer.

Also, my years of working with languages and their patterns are running up a big red flag. No one who is currently the age to be a teen's mother is going to use the strangely "older" language that this letter writer is using. I call BS on this one.

And yes, such a situation could happen and has. However, this particular letter is poorly written and is full of credibility gaps. Look for it to turn up in some lame book that warns parents against letting their kids pledge...it'll come with a warning:"Dear Abby says the Greek life is dangerous!"

I think we can probably all agree (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the letter is not real and was written by someone wanting to make the greek system look bad -- or was just something pieced together by "Abby" herself. However, I think we can also probably all agree that rape happens in fraternity houses across the country. Of course it does not only happen in fraternity houses -- it happens everywhere, unfortunately.

Nowhere in this thread did I say that I thought the letter was real -- in fact, if you would have read my responses you would have seen that I was one of the first to say that it probably wasn't for many of the reasons mentioned above.

However, the fact that the situation in question probably did not happen does not mean that it doesn't happen all the time, which is what I'm getting at, and that is obviously not something anyone can argue with.

As for the letter being anti-Greek -- there is no condemnation of fraternities or the guys in them anywhere in the letter. The only time the Greek system is even mentioned is that this event took place at a frat party. Sure, that's a little bit of a negative portrayal -- but guess what? It's not inaccurate.


Maybe if we're so concerned about our image as Greeks we should be working to lower the number of frat boys who rape and the number of sorority girls who get raped, rather than just trying to deny and cover up the fact that it happens more often than any of us would like to admit.

I think we can all agree that females have raped males and hence sorority members have raped fraternity members.

-Rudey

Whether the letter is true or not, the hypothetical situation posed does implicate the "friend" in several ways:

DEAR ABBY: My 16-year-old daughter went to a party at a frat house where she was given a great deal to drink.

**Providing a minor with alcohol**
**The age of consent in Virginia is 18 and in this situation, the girl was not of age of consent**

Feeling "woozy," she went outside. One of the "boys" she had been talking to went with her and suggested she go back to his room to lie down. She had known this fellow before that night and trusted him.

**"had known this fellow before that night" would indicate that he SHOULD know her age**

She was drunk, and he had sex with her. It was her first time. She claims she tried to make him stop, but he wouldn't, and she couldn't make him.

**Per the law, this was not consensual if it happened this way**

Shouldn't the young man be punished in some way? I feel something should be done. Would this constitute date rape?

from Confused in Virginia


And, for those who question whether it is rape if the situation is reversed, of course it is. If an adult woman has sex with a minor male, it is rape. If an adult woman had sex with a drunken minor male, it is rape. If a male says "no" and a female overpowers him and has sex with him anyway, yes, it's rape.

"Jailbait" is the word to use with someone under the age of consent and yes, you're foolish if you have sex with "jailbait" because if you think you're responsible enough to have sex, then you should be responsible enough to know the law.

Is there enough information in this letter to convict somebody? Of course not. Physical evidence of the rape would be necessary for it to result in a conviction. But, it's enough to start an investigation.

Dee

You don't know who gave her the alcohol.

You don't know if he knew how old she was.

You don't know if he was drunk.

You don't know if he was under 18 himself and entered college at a younger age.

But what you are doing is saying male=bad, female=good, rape, rape and some more rape.

-Rudey