As far as school vouchers...just suppose I wish to send my children to private school (which I don't; this is hypothetical) because the local public school is "failing" academically and because it is being overrun by Li'l Future Criminals in Training.

Sure, the academic half of the problem could be solved by putting my children in a private school. But wouldn't the availability of vouchers make it possible for the L.F.C.T.'s to go to private school also, thereby just taking half of the problem and moving it to a new location? Protecting your children from trying to learn in an environment of disruption and violence by moving them to a "better" school and then allowing the L.F.C.T.'s doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't a large factor in the decision to send one's child to a private school be the desire to get them away from kids like that?

Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure how the voucher system should work so if I'm assuming something that isn't true, I'd really appreciate if someone who is familiar with the pro-anti voucher argument could comment on this. Thanks! :)

Based on my experience, private schools have the option of kicking out students based on their conduct and their grades so that might resolve the problem you described, KR.

I'm wondering about that, too. I admit that I don't completely understand the whole voucher thing, despite having some education classes that touched on this issue. But...if we start letting everyone switch schools, including the problem students, wouldn't the "better" schools start going downhill? And then what? What would happen to the "bad" schools if all the students left to go to other schools? Would the other schools become overcrowded with all these new students? Is there a limit to the number of new students a "better" school has to take? I would love it if someone could explain this to me...it's sad that I'm going into education and I don't know.

The problem with large public school systems is that "problem" students" and "teachers" can be moved from one school to another within the system similar to "problem priests" within a diocese.

At our local high school there are at least 10 kids from 2 high schools that share our boundaries that were expelled from their own high schools and put in ours. I'm sure that the reverse is true as well. I can think of at 2 boys that had concealed weapons charge (pocket knife) and vandalism that are in my daughter's grade.

One teacher at our local elementary school has no criminal record but he's just a BAD teacher. Principals are so happy to get him out of their schools so they don't give a heads up to the new school.

Mr. Alum and I don't support vouchers. We do believe in public schools and believe a child can get a great education from a public school. My kids each went to private for kindergarten because public only had 1/2 day nonsense but after that, public all the way.

Sorry, but Vouchers to Private Schools are saying Our Public Schools are Lacking.

Of Course they are because of several things.

Financing and Not Allowing Teachers to control Their Class Rooms.

Parents are not allowed to check the Kids and Parents expect teachers to check the kids. That is not allowed either!:rolleyes:

So, I guess, who does? The Courts? Oh, never mind, they have become a joke also!:rolleyes:

How about a program were problem children and criminals are sent to fight in wars?

Pros:
You enlarge the army
Those violent people can really do some damage and so does our army...good fit
It's much cheaper to give someone a gun (or have them bring their own) than it is to put them through a system of schools, suspensions, expulsions, transfers, juvie, jail, execution.

Cons:
The EU and Amnest International will complain.

-Rudey

believe me, the military doesn't want them either!

I think there are some gross generalizations being made here... LFCT organization as you put it is mostly because of "failing families"--namely, neither parent is responsible to the child they produced because:

1) the parents are children themselves
2) hooked on drugs
3) just not around
4) all of the above

Which means that grandma is taking care of them... And grandma is old and doesn't know that one can steal an identity when you do not shread your pre-approved credit application after the letter is thrown in the trash can...

Moreover, we have the Baby Boomers becoming grandparents... So really, do you think the fabricators of the "sexual revolutions" had any idea what would happen to the concept of relationships outside of Oprah and Soap Operas to under-equipped, ill-educated children of child-bearing age? And it shocks you for what reason? Really? Just asking?

So pretty much, when we all know that over 80%+ marriages ends in divorce, etc. etc. etc., how do we not think it will not affect the learning of ALL children... HAYLE some children's parents were NEVER married--because hey, that's okay--"Oh, I screwed up by getting pregnant"--poor me... And most women that are getting pregnant are not the teens--it's the >21 year olds that have college educations... Then the option is what? You've seen our "wonderful" :rolleyes: GC abortion debates....

So, we're stuck with the LFCT organization and vouchers...

I don't think it will be easy to have a transferance from one school to another...

But that's why anyone concerned about the education of children ought to be involved with their local, county, state, federal education process... Because these folks whom you elect listen to somebody--why not you???

I can kind of see what voucher system might do for a school with the school my fiancée works at. She's at a charter school. Her school operates under the umbrella of the Oklahoma City Public Schools, but is mostly funded by various private and public grants, funds and the like. The school has a "Charter" which is like its Constitution. It sets out what the school's goal is for each child, how they'll do it, etc.

The Charter school that she teaches at is an academically focused High School. It allows transfers from any district so long as the parents or students provide the transportation. The school is awarded funding based upon the number of students that it has.

All classes at this school are taught to the AP/Pre-AP level. Many cannot cut it and flunk out. Those who misbehave are also given the proverbial boot. The school's goal is to take mostly 'underprivlidged' children who want to go to college and to get them there. Being underprivilged is not a prerequisite to get in, but it's what the school mostly ends up with due its inner-city location.

The parents and students also have a minimum 50 hours of community/school service that they must perform each year. Waivers are sometimes granted when the parents are total deadbeats and there's a really good kid needing a quality educational environment.

It's a very vouchers-like environment. They are very competitive, especially with other charter schools in the area -- it's a limited marketplace for a select group of students who want to excel but don't necessarily have the resources financially to attend a private school.

Having seen this system at work, I fully support it. There has been no 'opening of the flood gates' of transferees wanting in from the worst schools -- her school actually sends teachers and administrators out to recruit from area middle schools.

It's a good system. It actually has me convinced that central Oklahoma City might be a good place to raise a family again.

Nice report. Hopefully next year OKC will do five more similar schools, and five more the following year.

Is you fiancée a teachers' union member? How powerful is the union there?

ktsnake, I agree that Charter schools are intriguing ideas.

My county schools have designated two of the "not as good" high schools as "IB" schools, meaning that they offer the International Baccalaureate (IB) Diploma Programme. It is an intense two-year curriculum, aimed at students in grades 11-12 and it leads to a qualification that is widely recognized by the world’s leading universities. ie: it's considered a higher designation than our high school diploma.

A difference from your girlfriend's situation, though, is that these schools aren't not "inner city", but they are both feeder schools for the county's many housing projects and the school population is low because most parents have put their children in private school because of problems with weapons, a shooting at a football game, etc.

I guess the county is looking at how they can revive these schools and I give them a lot of credit for not caving into pressure from the parents at the "elite" public high schools and putting the IB programs there.

First of all, I think the IB Curriculum is excellent and I'm glad it is being recognized by more and more universities in the US.

However....
In our area, the most highly ranked high schools in our school system refused to have the IB curriculum installed and consequently the "poorer schools" with greater Free and Reduced Lunch rates and ESOL rates are the ones with the IB programs. This has NOT helped attract students to these schools. What it has done is exacerbate the situation between the "have" and "have-not" schools. People are trying to get their neighborhoods redistricted from IB school boundaries into AP school boundaries.

You want to see a good fight? Click on the following. Lee is the IB School. WSHS is the AP school.

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/fair...first_of_.html

She's a union member -- it's actually done some good things for her. In her present school, the union has absolutely zero sway though. There's no district administration to answer to. The school has its own school board which 'technically' answers to the OKC school board (although, the OKC school board probably could care less because they're too busy spending bond money with their buddies' construction firms).

The union provides some pretty desirable benefits like legal protection. For example, if a kid sues her for some bogus claim, it's not going to cost us a penny. The benefits don't stop there, but as to influence, at last in charter schools, it's virtually nil.

The difference is that this is not a curiculum that is forced on anyone. They compete for the kids they get, and the kids have to really want to stay in (the academic expectations are very high). If a kid doesn't have the will to get through their academic programs, they will absolutely fail. This is not a school where a teacher will get in trouble for letting kids sink or swim on their own. If they can't cut it, there are always the public schools.

In Oklahoma, we measure our school's performance for NCLB by an index called the API. The highest scores in teh state were in the 1350 range. There are OKC schools (near here) that are in the 350 range. In the second year it was open, this charter school did 1280 beating MANY of the rich suburban schools. Not too shabby considering the majority of the kids receive reduced or free lunches.

Hoosier, I don't think the 5 more next year, and 5 more the year after that is going to work. The only thing that's kind of sad about this situation is that there isn't a waiting list to get into this school. It's open enrollment -- whoever enrolls will at least get a fair chance to remain and succeed academically.

At some point I believe I saw something that tlked about how charter schools have underperformed regular public schools.

I am pretty happy I took AP classes instead of the IB.

-Rudey

Me too, although it was at a magnet school

Charter schools - IB - AP - BS - something needs to be done (and GA has nothing to brag about):

Stats:

Atkinson County: 64.5% of '05 graduates qualified for our "Hope Scholarship" program (free college tuition and fees for 3.0 average or better). 53.8% of Atkinson's grads (receiving 'Hope' $$$) who enrolled at a GA public college required remedial courses.

Confronted with the above stats: "We've discarded that grading system," say school officials.

Evidence of grade inflation caused by 'Hope': 61.1% of all GA grads get 'Hope' with 3.0 or better GPA.

It's not money, say reputable studies:

GA's teacher compensation: highest in the nation (adjusted for cost of living - costs less to live in GA than most blue states). Gov. is proposing 4% raise for all teachers, and most get an addl. 3% step.

School enrollment up 9.8% '95 - '02. Property tax collections up 70.9%.

We need change. We need a new model.

PS: I am a member of NEA for the benefits, not the politics.

Sadly, I think this will prove to be the case here as well. I think a lot of people will say, "Is it worth it for my child to get an IB degree if he has to worry about getting robbed/knifed/inert your crime here in school?" Definitely not worth the trade off.

Go To Public Schools that We as Tax Payers are sending Our Kids To or Pay Extra to go to Private Schools!

I dont have any Kids thank goodness but, I am paying for Public Schools and Community Colleges.!:mad:

Treat them like the business that they are, pay their own way or close!:mad: