Thank you. Posting times are close so a run over on timing!

Thanks!:)

She doesn't need to do anything for you. You desire answers. There's a difference.

She HAS NOT told her husband anything. Therefore, there is not a problem.

Put on your big- girl panties and deal with it.

I agree that there is no provision for breaching an oath and understand your interpretation.

However, where I split hairs with you in this matter is more of a spiritual/Biblical point...that when two are joined together in marriage, they become ONE. Arguably, depending on the individual's viewpoint, there need not be a "provision" granted by the fraternity to explain that these two people may now choose to share everything with one another.

*BEFORE YOU ATTACK THIS: I am not saying that this is how it IS or how it MUST BE....just offering this as a different perspective to explain WHY someone may feel that disclosure to a spouse is VERY DIFFERENT from disclosure to anyone else. I am not saying you must agree with this reasoning or accept it...just trying to explain it.*

*sigh* i will try, one question at a time....but please bear with me, as some I do not understand.

"You never answered My Question either." I guess I don't know the question to which you are referring....

"Do you profess one thing and or say another?" I'm not sure I follow this one. No, I have not disclosed anything about my ritual....but I understand the viewpoint of those who do not see it as a problem to share everything with their spouses. From a personal perspective, my own husband has never asked, nor do I think he would care, so I have not given him this information. But if it became a point of contention regarding secrecy in our marriage....probably I would tell him and I understand others who would choose to do this as well and would not consider it a breach of oath. But that is just ME....my opinion of a hypothetical. In my own life, I don't foresee this ever being an issue with us.

"So, now, you are an APhi and want to protect your Ritual or not?" Of course.

Addicted...
 

Has anyone else noticed that I said I would stop posting like 12 posts ago???

Sorry....I guess I am becoming a Greekchat addict!!!! And I don't want anyone to think I am unwilling to answer questions or go through the gauntlet!

However, I fear by the end of this thread I am likely to be a SENIOR MEMBER! haha!:D

WARNING: This post has nothing to do with revealing secrets of defunct/absorbed GLOs and everything to do with how we show respect for one another on this board.

Calling someone stupid because you disagree with their interpretation of the bible and the meaning of marriage is really mature. Actually, Lovely_gurl is a very active and involved member of Alpha Phi who has never said that her vows meaning nothing to her. This is a very harsh attack on someone's religious views of marriage that I consider unnecessary, rude and nasty.

I find it very disappointing that so many of you, including many moderators who claim to support GC allowing people to take less popular positions on issues, have attacked someone for bringing to light another point of view. Lovely_gurl was not advocating the sharing of ritual, nor was she speaking in defense of the actions of AEPhi Alum's chapter sister. Rather, she was trying to promote understanding by introducing another prospective on this issue.

She pretty much said in her first post that she saw NOTHING wrong with sharing secrets of any sort with a spouse because they are "one." If she had said "some people believe married couples should share everything" and let it go at that, I don't think anyone would have gotten offended. But she took it a step further and affirmed that she lives her own life this way as well. Whether she's actually shared these things with her husband or not is not the point.

I agree with the above post by buinaphi. The name calling is ridiculous, immature, not in keeping with ANYONE's ideals, principles or creed.

Let's start walking the walk here folks.

And yes, it is the point that she hasn't shared any ritual with her husband b/c that is why people have their panties in a wad. They actually are worried that she will. Which she hasn't and probably wouldn't. She was just playing devils advocate.

I guess it can't be a discussion board unless everyone agrees.


Just to put a differnt spin on the topic.....many rituals have changed. What if I discuss something in the ritual that is no longer there? Is that still breaking an oath? I haven't done this of course, but I think it does preent an interesting question.

Exactly. Not only did she say it, not qualifying as a "devil's advocate" statement, she mentioned her organization specifically.

Call me judgemental, but that sounds pretty stupid to me.

Well, I regret that you feel it necessary to resort to namecalling...and perhaps I should have worded my first post more carefully....and have already explained the posted affiliation bruh-ha-ha...but I would think that with the subsequent million posts from me that followed that one, one would get the idea of where I was coming from.

are big-girl panties a thong or a g-string ? :p

Yes, I did say this, as I am one of those who do believe that married couples CAN (not *should*) share everything without having that be considered as "breaching an oath". But I never said that you have to agree with that or advocate that....just that this is not an entirely unheard of perspective.

I'm not sure why pointing out that *I* have this view would "offend people" MORE than pointing out that *some people* have this view, as, regardless of my affiliation, I have never claimed to be taking an "official fraternity perspective" on this issue...at all.

I am posting the opinion of one who happens to be an Alpha Phi. Not posting Alpha Phi's opinion. So why this should "offend"....I don't know.

I think it is the point only inasmuchas some people went on the personal attack regarding something I have not done.

I also think it is unlikely to reach a consensus about this issue....

To me, it is a matter of the baseline argument. Because of my spiritual beliefs with regard to marriage, you are not likely to convince me to become angry or hostile toward a sister who discloses information to her husband.....

But, even when I don't agree, I find it helpful when others explain the place from which they are coming in order to gain an understanding of their thinking on any given issue.

I am fine to agree to disagree....and don't feel the need to attack anyone's personal views in order to do that.

Broken promises.

LMAO.
No offense, lovely_gurl, but that is kinda funny.

Can I show you later? ;)

Re: Addicted...
 

Um....yeah....actually I also found that funny myself....as I already drew attention to that in this post here:

Re: Re: Addicted...
 

But I'm Senusret I...... :confused:

If you break one promise, what's stopping you from breaking more? ;)

Re: Re: Re: Addicted...
 

Yeah...I still don't know how to quote two different posts....I was thinking you would know I was responding to your broken promises comment. And I was pointing out that I had already drawn attention to this on page 6 of the thread.
:)

*giggles* though I know you would enjoy it....I'm not biting on this one.

;)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Addicted...
 

Actually, I realized all of that....."But I'm Senusret I" was meant for people who've been around GC longer than a few posts.

To be honest, I haven't been reading all of your posts....don't really care much to after the few that I've read.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Addicted...
 

But you ARE Senusret I. Teee heeee heeee har har.

Miss, er Mrs. Lovely, I think you should really keep that promise now.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Addicted...
 

Yeah...I'm sort of getting tired of reading all my own posts as well....but I am going to need a 12-step program to stop!!!! :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Addicted...
 

Though I find it disheartening to be asked to shush because of a dissenting viewpoint, if it is really causing that much strife, I indeed will stop. *shrugs*

Did not think it was harming anyone and really have tried to phrase my opinions and responses in a very non-offensive manner.

That is an interesting question. Here's how I look at it: SAI's ritual has certainly changed over the past 100 years. The women who went through any old ritual are still keeping their oath of secrecy, and I should honor the oath that they took. Just because it was a different ritual than mine doesn't mean it should be made public.

some of the founding mothers of my chapter were previously affiliated with a local sorority.

i have never heard them discuss any of their secrets, probably because the local still exists and it was agreed that nothing would be said.

even if they did, i would feel uneasy knowing anything about them, because i know i would hate for them to know anything about us.

If my relationship with my significant other reached the point where he absolutely couldn't bear to not know my sorority secrets, I would realize that I was with a crazed control freak and break off the relationship...not tell him.

Somebody explain to me why any reasonable husband would demand to know his wife's sorority ritual. :confused:

My brother used to date one of my sisters and he seems to know a little too much about things he shouldn't. I know I didn't tell him. Some people just can't keep their mouths shut when it comes to "secrets" why would anyone expect that a secret ritual would be any different?
Yes, I agree that it shouldn't be spoken about in the presence of anyone who shouldn't be listening, but there are always going to be people who just have to share. Doesn't make it right, but why should we be the ones to judge?

Sure. They're sisters and are allowed to attend any SAI event. It's pretty much a given that any GLO with some years under its belt has had numerous ritual revisions. I would be shocked to find one that hasn't.

Not really, due to the nature of the changes. I'd go into more detail, but, uh....I can't. :)


Now, if you were my husband, then we could talk.... (sorry, couldn't resist).

Diamond Delta, I tried sending you a PM, but your box is full.

It really sucks when your boyfriend isn't Greek, doesn't understand, and fears that you're being pushed to have sex with ritual blow up cows or something. When I was pledging, it broke my heart to tell him "I'm sorry honey, I cant tell you where I was tonight". or "I can't tell you what we're doing tonight" or "I don't know what time we'll be done" or "it's none of your business" or "I can't come home, it's Inspiration (hell) week". I just joked with him that it was time for the ritual beatings (now what I tell him when I'm going to chapter).

But at the same time, i really hope he understands that these things are super important to me. I can't even tell my parents and I probably wouldn't even tell my priest. Some members don't know parts of our ritual for various reasons, and we have to keep that from them till the right time (they eventually experience it, just a matter of timing). And keeping secrets from a sister sucks, because we pride ourselves on being open to eachother.

I think I would like to propose something to all the other GC'rs out there...never ask anyone about their ritual. Things that are public, fine. Some pledging activities are meant to be public. But it's just bad form (in my eyes) to ask "what happens when you're initiated"? (answer!: We have a ceremony that marks our transition to full sisterhood and then we go and have dinner).

My boyfriend is not greek, and doesn't know enough about greek life to even think to ask about ritual stuff or the meaning behind my letters etc.

When I was pledging he used to ask me to tell him "secret stuff" and I'd smile and tell him I couldn't because it was secret.

The one thing I did tell him was when we had a candle pass, and how a candle pass worked, because I've heard candlepasses being discussed openly on GC and didn't think it was ritual or secret.

I don't really think there is a reason for me to tell him any of Pi Phi's secrets, as it wouldn't mean as much to him, and I would feel horribly guilty. Instead, he just teases me about being so involved in "PiPhi!!" (which he says in a high-pitched teasing voice).

In
Before
The
Lock.

I'm glad you're not a Sigma Nu, lovely girl, take that as you will.

KR,

You posted that pic before i got a chance to hunt for the same thing, kudos.

KS 361

Sorry ! It's clean now!! :)

I completely agree with this. I just don't see any appropriate situation where the sharing of ritual secrets would occur. If he asked nicely, or in a joking way, then I would respond also in a lighthearted matter that it was secret. If he demanded to know, I would tell him he was a complete idiot. I think more likely than not, it's a case of loose lips on the sorority member's part... and you know what they say about loose lips.

Honestly, I think you're taking the "two become one" way too literally. I don't need to share my sorority ritual with my future husband, just like I don't need to share all I know about calculus or every single mundane detail of my day. In a normal relationship, the vow we take as GLO members to keep all ritual proceedings secret should not be an issue.

I think part of the problem is the sensationalism that takes place when we talk about the secret and sacred parts of our ritual. If you're constantly discussing how secret it is, or if you make it seem shady, it's in the nature of human curiousity for others to want to know. I encourage descriptions of ritual events that don't stimulate the imagination- no one needs to know that it's more than a meeting or a simple ceremony. If you tell someone that initiation is similar to a wedding ceremony, where a member pledges to uphold the values of the organization, I doubt they'll need or want to know anything else.

In my original post I did ask if it was "ok" to reveal the secrets of defunct or absorbed GLOs, after mentioning that it appeared that my sister had shared Sigma Iota Phi secrets with her husband. I honestly don't know if her reasoning is "it's ok to tell your spouse anything, even things you've sworn to keep secret" or "SigIPhi is defunct, so my oath is no longer binding, and I would be comfortable telling the secrets to anyone and everyone".

I'm not "angry or hostile" toward Carol, just disappointed that she apparently broke her word. As I stated at the start of this thread, I feel that my oath to Sigma Iota Phi is still binding. I'm not happy that Bob knows the secrets, but at least she didn't put up a website or anything. ;)

My husband and I can share almost anything with each other... almost. He keeps his Masonic secrets; I keep my sorority secrets. We don't share with each other things our friends have told us in confidence. That doesn't mean our marriage is any less strong. Our respective oaths are not in conflict with our wedding vows, and honestly, I don't thnk he particularly cares about the green and purple catsuits and what the sheep was really used for.

What grade are we all in? I just can't believe that this name-calling is necessary. I further can't believe that I just witnessed some adults expressing disagreement with other adults by means of a picture of troll dolls. If your viewpoint has merit, surely you can support it with an actual argument.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up or not. I couldn't sit through reading the same thing over and over so I just skipped to my point.

The organization is no longer in existence. The constitution and rituals have been "replaced" with new values. This was the choice of the sisters when they chose to go national. The bonds of secrecy no longer apply to something that is no longer in existence. It makes no sense to keep something secret that doesn't exist. That chapter should make the initiation into a new ceremony just for their own chapter. Something they can do to kick off initiation week. If it is used in that manner, then it would be appropriate to be upset if secrets are exposed by alumni, or undergrads.

You've addressed the question I was trying to ask... "is it ok to reveal secrets of a defunct GLO" rather than "is it ok to reveal GLO secrets to specific people, like your spouse" (although that is also an interesting question).

My local sorority no longer exists, but the sisters with whom I shared that bond are still around. We didn't "declassify" the ritual, so to speak, when we joined AEPhi. We did talk about reworking SigIPhi's ritual into an Inspiration Week activity, but nothing ever became of that. (Some of my chapter sisters don't even know we originated as a local sorority. :( )

Since we didn't make a decision as a sorority to "declassify" the ritual or share it with our chapter sisters, I feel that my oath not to reveal SigIPhi secrets to non-SigIPhis is still in force. Out of respect for my sisters and our bond as SigIPhis, I have not revealed, nor will I reveal, the secrets (except in the unlikely event that we decide as a sorority that we want to make our ritual public).

My stepdad has told me a lot of stuff about the fraternity he was in during college, which was a local and has since been taken over by a national organization; I know the handshake, some ritual stuff, and some things that they were required to do during pledging. From the way he talks, though, their rules were a little more lax than what most of us are used to...I think their members could even join another group after being initiated if they ever decided to quit, so maybe they weren't as secretive as national groups are. I don't know. I think if it bothers you, you shouldn't tell, because that's your subconscious telling you that you think it's wrong. I guess it just depends on how your group worked.