cya.

I am on the fence about this particular incident as well. It was a bad social situation. His behavior after the incident is despicable (the bragging stuff), but not illegal. A friend of mine had a similar incident in college, except that there were pictures afterward. She drank one glass of jungle juice which just about put her under the table. She asked her best friend (a male in a fraternity who had been her friend for years) who she could trust to take her home because she was feeling bad, getting worse and just wanted to go home. He told her two different guys should be cool so she picked the one she thought was the least harmful. She said she vaguely remembered waking up in a car somewhere in a park and said "Where are we?". He told her the name of the park and she said "I want to go home now, take me home". The next time she woke up, she was in his bed with some her shirt and bra removed. She has no idea exactly what happened, but it was morning. She got her clothes on and came to my room, stunned and crying. This was back in the 80's when we wore our jeans so tight that he probably couldn't have gotten them off of her without her consent so she doesn't think she was raped. She was victimized though. Apparently he took pictures of her topless and showed them around the fraternity until it got to her friend, who promptly kicked his brother's butt. He had to apologize to the fraternity.

While I don't condone cashmoney's attitude that any girl who leaves with a guy is consenting to sex, women need to realize that a lot of men (not all, but a lot) see it this way. We have to keep an eye on our friends, especially if they get that drunk, and take them home ourselves, not abandon them at a party. We cannot change the way that some men think, so we have to protect ourselves by behaving responsibly. I am NOT saying she asked for it or that he was ok to do what he did. But, as women, if we don't want to be victimized, we can't act like victims and we have to be aware of how the "predator" is thinking, even if the predator is wrong in their thinking.

Dee

Has anyone seen the movie "Gossip"? This situation sort of reminds me of it...

dude, you're out of control - which was the whole point of my post. if you were kidding, that's cool, but you seemed pretty heated . . . let's try to keep it calm, cool, rational, etc in here.

I'm not trying to invalidate your opinions, just trying to get a good discussion going.

ISUKappa - that makes sense to me, but I guess I'm skeptical about how effective that can be. I'm so totally on the fence here, b/c it's a shitty situation and it feels like there's very little that can be done. I guess I just don't know (first time for everything i guess).

This was very well written. We do have to protect ourselves and we do need to be aware of what is around us. Same goes for guys - although, I don't know too many v-teasers who get taken advantage of.

Question! What's this Italian law thing?

The idea is that a woman wearing jeans could not be raped because the attacker could not remove her jeans without her cooperation, implying her consent. :rolleyes:

Yep - and this idea was translated into law for a while (I'm pretty sure outside pressures got it removed a bit ago), essentially making Italy a laughing stock with regard to women's rights (and this wasn't 1930, this was more like 1990). Very weak.

Well I think this question brings up a lot of emotions in most people, bc it does seem very similar to something that has happened to at least someone we have known. I am not really sure if I would call this situation rape without knowing all the details.

A friend of mine had this happen to her. She was actually hanging out with some friends for the night and got pretty drunk. She ended up leaving with a guy friend (they knew each other from before) bc she could not obviously drive herself, but he could. She doesn’t remember much past leaving until the next morning realizing that they had had sex. She obviously was blacked out, but the point is she didn’t know how coherent she was. She felt like she could have been coherent enough for him to think it was ok, but she knew she didn’t want that to happen. So she never wanted to say anything, because she felt partly at blame since she was so drunk. Also, I think though that she should go and get tested, bc my friend did end up getting an std which is a constant reminder of the bad experience and makes it harder for her to start a new relationship with someone else.

Bottom line: Having sex with a girl that is black out drunk is NOT ok (legal or illegal) becasue it's not respecful of the girl. My opinion is boys that do it shouldn't feel good about themselves the next day.

I echo Dee's comment. Girls need to watch out for their friends!

Some of what I am reading from the men posting on here is disturbing. So my question to the men:

Why does sex have to resort to violence for it to be interesting or "good"?

Does sex = violence?

The fact that some women are passionate about the topic ought to give the insightful clues as to the character of who they are... Maybe some women here have been in this situation... Maybe some women here were actually raped and did all the "required legal courses"... Maybe some women did not and live life either to move on or with regret... Hint, hint...

And to still be hearing that this type of thing continues on American college campuses today with all the courses available and all the "stop gap" measures in place by the schools (compared to the 1980's) still pains some of those ladies that suffered similarly and did not report to the authorities...

The fact is, boys, if you really had it going on like that, you would not have to have ANY babe on ANY substance for you and her to hook it up like that--period...