Yes, this is a central part of the issue, and your whole post is very wise. Talking about this disparity doesn't have to be read as an attack on anyone's alma mater; it's a call to help the schools you love to do even more for their students. Meeting the financial needs of current undergrads should be the number one fundraising priority for alumni of any school. (As far as I know, Princeton is the only university in the world that meets 100% of its undergrads' financial need solely through endowment funds; every other school relies on donations for some (or all) of its scholarship program.)
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Paxil attorneys

Very much on point, and one of the reasons why I left an HBCU; I was pulling top grades out the gate and I wasn't getting no money. I wasn't going to continue to pay my way through school and excel under those conditions.

btw, true story; I applied for a Central State University scholarship through the Columbus Urban League while attending a community college. I even asked before I applied if I could apply under those conditions (as opposed to being a high school student), and they said yes. Later on my application was denied because, you guessed it, I wasn't a soon-to-be high school grad. I wanted to slap somebody so bad for wasting my time. If the Urban League was paying my tuition I would've stuck it out at CSU for at least a full school year. O well, it's their loss.

Bless your dumb heart for your attempts at familiarity.

Next time, either agree and save the side comments or don't agree at all.

Is that an order?

*gives wink, throws the yo, and makes phone gesture, mouthing the words, "I'll call you" :p :D

Yes.

*eyes Chaos' full bird colonel insignia on her collar she got from an army surplus store for $4.99 along with with her fruit salad decorated Delta tunic that would put Idi Amin to shame*

Ohhhhhh....gotcha ;)


(ok, I'm done for real now...carry on everyone)

I went to both HBCU's and "PWI" as an undergrad and the major difference was the amount of people in HBCU's who had been there FOREVER and were holding about 15 positions. These people were also holding the university back and thus causing students to transfer to more aggressive universities. There is a difference in HBCU's as well. There are two major rivals here in Mississippi and one is on the cutting edge of being a major force to recon with. The other one is located in a sparse area where the resources aren't available to move the college ahead. Many people have argued that the alums have to do their part;however, I feel that HBCU's have been neglected prior to the Ayers Case, and have to fight extra hard to be where Ole Miss and MSU were 20 years ago. HBCU's turn out many graduates who have received QUALITY education. Just because one goes to an HBCU doesn't mean they couldn't get into Harvard or another "PWI". Believe me, they had several choices.

I believe the key element in all this is to find a QUALITY HBCU. All HBCUs are not created equal and we are doing ourselves a disservice to give someone credence just because they attended an HBCU regardless of the educational quality. I attended what was at that time a piss poor HBCU, but it didn't sour my perception of HBCUs as a whole. I do believe there is a certain unique educational experience you can get at an HBCU, but you must attend a good one to make it fully count.

Good.

I just got back from the 100 Black Women 2007 Presidents Luncheon (my office bought a table) where the guest speaker was Dillard University president Marvalene Hughes. She gave a great speech on how her tenure as president began one month before Hurricane Katrina and how she managed to perservere and bring back a damaged campus (and dampened school spirit) better than before.

The slide show presentation she presented was very very good. All in all, good speech, good meal, awesome time.

Coming from an HBCU-attendee family, where my grandfather graduated from Knoxville and became the president of Bethune-Cookman, my parents graduated Fisk, my father graduated Meharry, several cousins graduated FAMU, my in laws graduated from Morehouse and Morris Brown; and I graduated from Spelman, that maybe I actually do know a thing or 2 about collegiate and university funding and education.

It takes a lot to educate people. There are several societal reasons for that, such as slaves not being allowed to read, why? The key to Spelman's education was to teach former children of slaves how to read the Bible and write their families in the North. It is my understanding that Spelman had a "paper bag" test as to who had lighter-skinned features than other darker-skinned individuals. In fact there are reasons why Spelman is named Spelman rather than Rockafeller, since he funded the school.

So, when we think what it takes to fund HBCU's outside of the UNCF, then it has been extremely tough. Yet, we still educated some the most prolific people in history:

Dr. Martin Luther King and the entire King Family
Thurgood Marshall
Mae Jemison - spent some time at an HBCU, 1st Black Female Astronaut
7 affliates of the D9 whose founders attended these schools

So when one belittles and stereotypes an HBCU and does not attempt improvement backed up with money has very little respect in my eyes.

And yes, my husband and I donate large sums to our respective HBCU's...

^^^^The best decision my daughter and I made was to send her to an HBCU. When she came home for Christmas break her first year, the change in her was dramatic. She was more self-confident and full of energy for her future after just a few months.

Don't get me wrong--she was a HNIC her PW high school here in MN., but going to Howard and finding out that everyone there were HNICs humbled her and boosted her at the same time.

There is something to be said about walking the halls of a school and seeing historical pictures of accomplished Blacks on the wall, and to walk into a classroom and your prof looks like you. Not to mention the scores of Black students all striving to achieve greatness.

After growing up in Minnesota it was exactly what she needed. It also changed the mind of my mother who would not let me go to a HBCU, because she thought they were inferior.

*sidenote* My step grandmother told me the story of not being accepted to Howard, because she did not pass the brown paper bag test. :(

When my mom came down to surprise me at Thanksgiving, she told me how much I'd changed, too. I was, not ghetto....GHET. TO. Two words. :rolleyes:

Well, if you have EVA gotten caught by one of your professors after skipping his or her class... :rolleyes: ;)

Really, it doesn't suprise me. I am glad you and your daughter were happy with the outcome. It is good to hear such things.

How come your mother thought these schools were inferior? Just asking. I really like to know what goes through people's mind when they say such things...

In fact my aunt and uncle were like that, but when my mom came to live with them, she stayed 2 years at a Junior College, then they sent her down to Fisk, where she inevitably pledged the Pi chapter, and met and married my dad... :)

And I did hear of Paper bag tests at Fisk, Spelman and Howard... It all changed in the late 60's, early 70's.

it's so sad that so many Blacks felt/feel that way about HBCUs. my mother wanted so badly to go to Howard but her father was completely against it. as a result, she supported my brother (a FAMU alum) and i as we applied only to HBCUs. in a way, she got to live through us and went every year to parents' weekend.
if people would only do their research and see that our schools prepare us for life just as PWIs. we need to stop downing what is ours, it's really hurting us:mad::(

My parents, brother, and aunts and uncles went to HBCUs.

That doesn't make me feel passionate about HBCUs or lead me to overlook the changes in the caliber of administration and students that even alum from some HBCUs criticize.

If I have a child who wants to attend one, I'd have to see what the particular school is about just as I would for PWIs. It will definitely have to offer more than just being an HBCU, which is enough for some people. I feel that HBCUs have a lot to offer but some of them need to tighten up the academic experience as much as they tighten up their cultural/social experience. If that doesn't apply to any of your HBCUs, don't attach the comment to your ass. ;)

Where did you "hear" that Spelman did the "paper bag" test? Based on early photographers of the first graduating class (before it was even "Spelman") there were women of all hues represented (you should be familiar with the picture I am speaking of) I have also seen other pictures from the late 1800s until now and there certainly is not evidence that this was the case. AS a matter of fact, the first African students arived at Spelman in before the turn of the century. Most sub Saharan African would not be able to pass a paper bag test

And what is the reason that Spelman was named Spelman versus Rockefeller? It seems that you tie this to the 'paper bag' test. I am only aware of his desiire to honor his wife and her family after he saw that Sophia Packard and Harriet Giles would "stick" with their mission to educate newly freed slaves in the south. If you have more information, please share!

I don't know if there was or wasn't one, but to put it in perspective:

Early photos of the "black elite" and of some sororities showed that there were darker hued people as members. But the proportion of darker hued to lighter hued is what the accusation of colorism and intraracial discrimination is based on. So a paper bag test (either literal or figurative) doesn't prevent some darker hued people from getting in and even being photographed.

Interesting. I was having a similar conversation with a friend of mine the other day and lets just say she made me want to punch a whole in the wall. Other than the fact that she couldn't stick to one thing and was jumping all over the place (extremely frustrating), she never had a solid point. She was essentially expecting HBCUs to do things that PWI do with, say a million dollar budget, with one hundred thousand dollars.

Didn't quite happen for me
 

Well I believe the stereotyping also comes into play when there becomes a pattern of HBCU's not being on their job ( financial aid packets, housing, etc.) I say this do to my experience and those of friends and family members. I started off at a PWI because my mother wasn't trying to send to an HBCU although HBCU's were my first choice. She stated that the world isn't made of just African Americans and that I needed to go to a school that had a diverse student body and that provide "better opportunities :rolleyes:". So I started off at a PWI and eventually got my mom let transfer to a HBCU.

I applied to FAMU and got accepted ( after repeating checking with school when huge amounts of time had passed), got my room assignment, plane ticket to Tallahassee..... A week before I was set to leave something told me to just double check everything and when I called the Financial Aid office I found out that my financial aid have been jacked up and they weren't cooperative with trying to assist me. The funny thing is I have frat that this has happen to also and he had to transfer schools. I ended up back at a PWI (Southern Illinois University in Carbondale after my mom went off on FAMU Chicago style "westside") and obtained my degree there. After that ordeal, during my second semester at SIUC I received a call from FAMU saying they had straighten out my finanical aid and it was a mistake on their part. They stated that if I still wanted to attend the their university I would be able to and I am thinking:eek:.

My point is that I have been on both sides of the fence and I would entertain the opportunity to do my grad program at an HBCU, but as stated in previous post all HBCU's aren't the best, just as all PWI's aren't either. I just dislike seeing HBCU's not on top of their game in every way possible. These schools should mean alot to our community, but they sometimes get tarnished by negative things or people involved at the institution (Morris Brown). As a result parents don't want to send their child and hard earned money to an institution that isn't going to provide the basics.

Now before anyone says these things happen at PWI's too; that may be true, but I can say from my experience it doesn't occur as often. When it does occur it is usually taken care of in a timely manner. Investing in HBCU's is a great start, but there is a need for checks and balances with regard to the people who run the institutions. With all that being said, I still want to pursue grad studies at a HBCU. Not going to let one bad experience change my view!!:D

I agree totally, which is why we did serious research before we settled on Howard and a few others. After visiting HU, my daught decided only to apply there (which caused me a few stressful moments, I mean only applying to one school.) LOL

I only "heard" of this activity, I did not say it was true. It was a well known fact that Spelman requested "pictures" on their applicants, because I had to submit one in 1986 :eek: Whether that made a different of my acceptance to the school or not, I will never know. Or the fact that I was admitted to UC Berkeley and chose not to attend because I wanted to attend Spelman, who knows?

The Spelman name... Well, let's just say I had Ms. Gebre-Hewitt for English... And she gave us this assignment to determine why Spelman College was named that way. And if you wanted a grade above an F-, you would be one to figure out E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what it was with references. So, somehow, I actually managed to get into Club Woodruff's Special Collections... And I found some books and programmes stating the reason:

But why honor his wife? My findings in Special Collections:

Yeah, I could have written the paragraph better :rolleyes:, and, what would be my reasons to be an idiot about what I know regarding Spelman College and most HBCU's giving my history here on GC?

I hear ya. Also the brown paper bag test came into play if your family was not already of a certain "pedigree." That would explain the different hues.

Go Salukis! I am a charter member of the Delta chapter there. Interesting fact. When I attended SIUC, there were over 3,000 Black students there. We functioned like a mini-HBCU within a major PWI. They were kind of scared of us. LOL

I agree with your statements. I will not excuse Spelman admin for what it did to me personally, but there is a time to let it go and forgive. Reality, most people that work there, have ONLY lived in that area for their entire life and that is the only world they really understand. At PWI's, most of their admin workforce comes from all over the world, literally. So the top down business design is totally different than HBCU's. Because, a HBCU is not getting a whole bunch of well-too-do students, with well-to-do parents--maybe the occassional celebrity or their children... Really, what celebrity has sent their child to Jarvis Christian, Florida Memorial, or Clafin? Really?

Whereas, most PWI's have STRONG student, parental and alumni support... STRONG just for the football games alone--totally SEC vs. ACC in 2007-2008. The Bayou Classic barely broke even--from what I "heard" ;)

I only have several friends that suffered the financial aid drama, but most folks who "master" the art of "finagling 101" at these schools, feel empowered by it. Finagling101 is not fun while one suffers, but this is how HBCU's--literally formed after Emancipation think is the BEST education for BLACK PEOPLE.

I did learn what kind of education I could garner from Spelman even though there was a complete lack of resources.

When my sister applied to Clark Atlanta in 2004, she asked me why they would want a picture of her, to which I said maybe they wanted to know what you looked like.... The thought did cross my mind that maybe they were admitting people based on looks. A brother told me once that Bennett College, where his sister attended in the 80's or 90's did the same thing.

thank you for stating this! That is one of the experiences I try to convey to people who are stuck in the mindset that HBCUs are for students who couldn't get in anywhere else.

Always good to run into a fellow Saluki
 

What's going on fellow Saluki and hats off to you as a charter member!:DThose are women about business down there. We collaborated together for National Aids Awareness week to bring your Soror Rae Lewis Thornton (phenomenal) down to speak, when I was vice pres of the Black Student Union or what is now the Black Affairs Council. You know I had no idea what a saluki was when I first got there. Your right we still think of ourselves as a little HBCU within a PWI and we still have weight on the campus. Enough that we can bring quality programs for AA students to Carbondale. They still scared of us:D, but what we are doing now can't compare to what your generation did when you were there, I seen the pictures, you guys on BUSINESS big time.:cool: Ladygreek are you coming down for black alumni weekend in July??

Morris Brown
 

Does anyone know if Morris Brown College is still functioning? I heard they are, but just that enrollment is low. I wonder how long it will take for the school to be restored to its former glory?

That is exactly my point. I don't either.

I've "heard" it too, usually from folks who either did not get accepted or had some chip on their shoulders regarding our fine alma mater. I honestly don't recall submitting a photo in 1984 when I applied. *shrug* What is the point of recounting something like that when there is really no evidence that it happened? I am sure our Spelman Sister Esther Rolle would have an issue with that.

TYeah, I had Gebre-Hewitt too. The memories....
That is not some obsure fact though. Most Spelmanites should know that part of the Spelman History. I thought you were connecting it to the "paper bag" test and going to repeat another unsubstainated story that I "heard" about how Spelman came to be. I certainly won't repeat it here.


I think we all know that paper bag tests have happened in the past. There is a historic church in Savannah (the name escapes me right now) that had a board next to the door and potential worshippers had to compare their arm to the board to see if they were light enough to come in. I remember visiting that church as a child and being dismayed that I would not have been able to attend that church. It is important to remember from wense we came, but why pass along things that might not be true?

She put her faith into HU and got what she wanted. I know people who applied for a faculty position at one university and got it. I, however, need Plan Bs. :o:D

Very true. I forgot about that.

It looked like your point was that having darker hued blacks present meant there wasn't a paper bag test.

Quite a few schools (both PWI and HBCU) ask for photos. This allows them to judge you based on your looks and whether they think you'd "fit in" with the campus climate.

There's no other logical explanation for it.

What was its former glory?

<hijack>
I think requesting a photo is more of a precaution if something happens. The school will have a recent photo of you on file to give to authorities.
</hijack>

Sure, that may very well be the formal excuse or reasoning given by some schools. But discrimination is based on outcome and not intent. ;)

MBC is still in operation with around 50 students. From what I understand they began the accreditation process in October 2006. (according to this).

Bless their hearts. They are starting from scratch.

You have to either have a lot of faith in MBC's potential or be a .01 GPA student who can't get in elsewhere. My child wouldn't be allowed to waste a degree like that.

I agree with you. I don't know if that's the reason given or not, and really didn't know the practice existed until today, I'm just sayin'. :)