Re: Re: Re: ummm..
 

Sorry to bring this back up after we're all ready for the benediction :) but I will be brief here miss priss and just say that we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't agree that the D9 is elitist, although depending on one's definition of elitist, almost any group can be deemed elitist. Further, I'm kind of offended at the idea that the hard work that we do is seen as only to gain media attention, especially when *most* of what we do is not even publicized. You gave credit for the impact that the D9 has made in the community and I think that it is well deserved. I embedded a few other comments below.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miss priss




<<Because this is a tri-part question, I'll address them separately....
1.) and 2.) In fairness the D-9, gives heavily to the community and, in some cases, work actively in them; however, unfortunately, (this has been discussed before somewhere) the D-9 is regarded as a bourgeois group of people who attack needs when deemed for media purposes...just because it sounds/looks good.....now we all know that's not true for all the D-9. >>


As I mentioned, this is just not the case and as mentioned, in fact, most of our work goes unpublished.


<<But some people feel that they are not taking a more active role in the political infrastructure of (Black) America, not making full commitments to community charity not just giving to them like they did in the sixties/seventies, and the persistent crutch of approaching the new millennial problems with the old millennial ways. >>


My sorority is registering thousands to vote all across the country, sorors are everywhere holding elected offices, chapters are nationwide hosting non-partisan candidate forums, how is this not taking an active role in the political infrastructure? Concerning not making "full commitments to community charity," ths is an easy thing to say but what does it really mean? We serve the community. Who is to say whether the commitment is a "full" commitment I don't know; however, I do know that we did a million hours of community service last year and not an insignificant amount was with community charities so that's really a hollow claim. Concerning approaching new millenial problems in old millenial ways, our Partnership in Math and Science to address the new wave emphasis on math and science is an example of our *we* are in touch with the new 21st century needs of the community so this old millenial claim is just not valid.



<<These are only a few that I hear....For me ideally, I would love to see a communal interaction occur with people in the D-9....like they do with Habitat for Humanity.....In my community, for instance, most of the Black/Latino community has trash and dilapidated homes everywhere...who's going to take the first step in seeing that these things are done? I personally take part in yearly clean-up...but we have a (Greek) mayor who has the power to say Hey let's get to work...and although he has made some initiative...the work must be continuous not just one weekend...and this is what poor Black folks see....it may not be true but that's what they say they see. The premise is that the D-9 only dedicates a weekend to (that) communities needs, but only a premise, and unjustifiably so!>>


We have joint alliances all the time.


<<2.) We need to empower our people with understanding the true definition of wealth, making a impact on how we address health; also, creating jobs for the jobless, issues like gay marriage and its impact on the Afro-American community, addressing the social ills of welfare, black on black crime, warfare involving the Tutsis in Rowanda, take back our urban schools by insisting that we have quality schools in neighborhoods and the presence of (professional) role models for our young Black men and women to name a few…>>


As I mentioned in my previous email: Education, Economics, Health, the Black Family, and Arts - need I say more?


<<Alpha Kappa Alpha does wonderful things in the community as well as the others …But personally for me, I look at my surroundings and ask myself am I making the difference? Has these orgs. empowered me to want to make one(a difference)? Do I feel important to them? Are they impacting me? Do I have take ownership by what they (the D-9) have given me? These are all personal accountability questions. >>


miss priss, these are questions that each person should ask him/herself so I agree with you that these questions should be asked. I would dare answer that in my opinion, the legacy that Alpha Kappa Alpha has established and given to African-American women all over the world (members and non-members) by her advancements for women, the causes that she has taken up, etc. *has* impacted you as a (presumably) Black woman and has lent a hand to paving the way for you to make the difference that you make today. You (and none of us) have gotten here alone - we are all riding on the shoulders of the phenomenal people who came before us. I would say to consider what a sisterhood of thousands of moving and shaking African-American women have done in each of our respective communities, both as members of the sorority as well as just African-American women and I dare say that no African-American woman (member or not) could *not* not be impacted by that. Each action by anyone in our community affects us all.

QUOTE]

SC, you are GOOD....That's all I"m gonna say! :p :D :rolleyes: :cool:

Greetings Summerchild
 

You make a VERY impassioned argument for AKA and the D9 in general(aren't you a lawyer?:)). However, the D9 by virtue are elitist organizations. It is not meant in a bad way or is it necessarily a bad thing. Honestly, any organization where you are CHOSEN for membership, is elitist. Elite is not the person with the most money or the best car. I think in terms of D9, it means the best All Around Person. I can remember being an undergrad student attending a "Meet the Greeks" function. The members of the respective G8(No Iota in NPHC back then) organizations were all there and representing. The main focus was how the groups were elitist not because they think they are somehow "better" than everyone else. They are elitist because they want the best for their organizations and therefore want the best people, the most elite people, to represent their organizations. Everybody on the planet can not be an AKA.

you got that right!
 

THANK GOD!!!

;)
:D
:p

here here! :)
But you know, because I am NOT greek, I get the chance to listen and hone in on why GDI's, nun phi nuns, and whoever else feel the way that they do and these are some of things that I am hearing. People view their commmunities and take that as a tool for if something/somebody is working. I do not profess that I represent the disenchanted, rejected, or objectionable few to the D-9. So I hope no one leaves here offended, mad, hurt or pissed at anything I've written..... Just playing devil advocate....;)

What I find is that those greeks that are active in their respective communities are passionate about what they do;generally because they were like that before they became members. Tony was right for whatever reason people will always make assumptions about the "activeness" of greeks...and that's their opinion...but as you stated very passionately that this IS what defines Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority....as I understand from you....you care and obviously others care about their communities.....Delta Sigma Theta,for example, in my community has a serious impact in our educational/civic/social communities as well as Zeta Phi Beta and Sigma Gamma Rho...I am impressed with the level of congeniality and service that these organizations have with each other....

For me, I am more concerned with the commitments the AA community as a whole is making.....When will we (as AA) be personally accountable for what happens in our communities?....My interests lie in applicable solutions not a bunch of finger pointing....Maybe this is another thread but I find that communities in dire straits suffer because they blame everyone but themselves and take divisive attitudes to solutions....

Bottom line I think the D-9 is relevant, it's just that people who feel that they aren't hasn't empowered themslves.

I co-sign on this. But I would like to add any organization, greek or not, who plays a role in the advancement our people and the communities that we live and grow is relevant to the nature of what is the African American Community.

Speaking from a non-greek.

I had to reply to this thread
 

Greetings Everyone,

I wanted to take the opportunity to reply to the statement that was made in reference to my organization and a few others.
I am a founder of Delta Lambda Delta Sorority, Inc and I must say that in no way, shape, or form are we trying to recreate any of the D9 sororities. We are our own unique organization. We have every right to call ourselves a sorority, for if you check the definition of the word in the dictionary it says:

so·ror·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-rôr-t, -rr-)
n. pl. so·ror·i·ties
A chiefly social organization of women students at a college or university, usually designated by Greek letters.


An association or a society of women.

We are a society of women dedicated to making a difference not just in the lives of our members but in our community as well. Speaking on behalf of myself (and other people that I know, including a few of my sorors) there have been times that I indeed thought about joining a D9 organization when I was in college (and yes I am college educated as a matter of fact all of my members are) but after seeing so many of my close friends coming back to their dorms with bruises and cuts on their bodies, being rushed to the hospital with ashtma attacks brought on by certain activities in which they were not allowed to use their pumps, and seeing friends of mine laying in hospital beds for two months straight after the chapter they were pledging was suspended due to hazing, I decided that D9 organizations were not for me.

As far as starting an organization where you do not need to be a student in order to pursue membership, that right there is a given. D9 organizations are open to students and I have come across many women who for personal reasons could not attend school at the time. Is this to say that they should be denied the rights and advantages of a sisterhood? As far as a sorority for mothers goes, I cannot speak for the founders of that organization but I know a few women who attended informationals for a few D9 organizations and were denied the chance to pledge based on the fact that they were young, unwed, single mothers.

Please do not get me wrong. I truly and whole heartedly respect all of the D9 organizations. I have friends and family members who took that road, but just as someone said earlier, unfortunately some of your members have seemed to stray away
from the vision that your founders had for your organizations. I do not believe that all members have forgotten the true meaning behind the years of hard work that went into pioneering your organizations, but indeed a few members have and unfortunately it is making a lot of people look elsewhere.

As to why we chose to be a Greek letter organization, why did the founders of Alpha Kappa Alpha choose to use Greek letters? The first African American based Greek letter organizations in existence were Sigma Pi Phi and Gamma Phi. If they had given those that came after them the problem and strife that a lot of the D9 sororities are giving to the new sororities that are up and coming then your organizations would not be where they are today.

A lot of us never understood why it is that so many "white" organizations can be created and they are never given any heat for it but the minute an African-American based organization is created we are jumped on for our vision, our hard work, and our beliefs. I do not understand why we cannot just be commended for our efforts and supported the way that we still support and respect all of you regardless of all of the horrible stories and actual witnessing of hazing that some of us have had the displeasure of being exposed to.

Point blank...The D9 organizations were not the first Greek-letter organizations in existence and they will not be the last. You have Black Greek-letter organizations that have been in existence since the 1920's that are not a part of the D9, you have organizations that were formed in the 90's, and then you have those that were created within the past year. The same way that I and my sorors created Delta Lambda Delta Sorority, is the same way that 20 years from now other "sororities" will be created, and when they do, I will be willing to embrace them with open arms and help to guide them because we all have an ultimate vision, an ultimate goal, and an ultimate practice; SISTERHOOD.

Peace and Love,

Aisha
Delta Lambda Delta Sorority, Inc.

As an artist, I usually don't hate on other people's art, but MY letters look more out of place in this image than everyone else's

in the words of my favorite commercial:

"that's just wrong"

Crabs in a Barrell
 

I don't profess to know everything (or really anything that isn't public knowledge) about BGLO's. I am a young college professor who is also non-greek. But because I teach Black and Women's Studies, I am often bombarded with questions about BGLO's from my students. For this, I usually direct students to the Office of Greek Life and to individual members of BGLOs.

What I'm interested in however is the nature of this conversation and how dismissive many of you were to RainMan's comments. Granted, his dislike of the Divine Nine is most apparent (so you have to get past the sarcasm and angst to get to the meat of his argument) but his initial question about who has a monopoly on what is considered a legitimate GLO does have merit. Essentially, as I see it, he is asking what Cornell West asked of Black people as a whole in his book Race Matters...what does it mean to be Black in America? Who has the right to define Blackness and on what terms? If my hair is relaxed am I less Black than the sista who wears dreads? Does the NPHC have the monopoly on Black Greekdom?

I can recall from my high school years being teased by my Black friends when I was placed in Honors classes. Then years later, I was leading a panel discussion on being black versus being smart...b/c Black students who were also smart were being asked to choose one identity over the other. What became apparent is this type of "crabs in a barrel" mentality of sorts and regretfully, being closed off to the idea of other BGLO's is about as simpleminded as white folks thinking Black people are inferior and less intelligent than whites.

We have real issues in the community that needs addressing and the F4 or D9 members can't address all of them so why not allow other organizations to peacefully co-exist? Likewise, if someone chooses to join a non-D9 organization, this is not to say AKA's are elitist or she got rejected from SGRho or that hazing is part and parcel of the F4 intake process. This means that person made a choice based on their personal beliefs, values and desires. You can have an opinion about it certainly but sometimes you just need to know when your comments are akin to tearing someone down. It's not always productive for yourself or the community as another person stated earlier.

Our strength as a race has always been our diversity and willingness to adapt to a variety of seemingly endless obstacles placed in our way. Please stop allowing your own egocentrism about the organizations you're apart of keep you from recognizing the strength that is Black America.

PhDiva

P.S. I do agree with you all about the artwork. These images are synomous with particular organizations and folks should refrain from using them as their own.

UNNO, I think the originator of this piece (an artist by the name of WAK) would agree with your "that's just wrong" comment. The original piece did not have greek letters on it at all as well as the piece with the sista on it.

The painting should look like this:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/...s/b81fawz0.jpg

Re: Crabs in a Barrell
 

Perhaps if you re-read the thread you'll see that it had several examples of D9 orgs working with other orgs. I don't recall anyone saying a non-D9 group did not have right to form/exist.

Perhaps from your perspective, you share RM's idea that we are elitist. Surely, it will not surprise you to find that many D9 members, particularly those who regularly visit Greekchat, would disagree.

...it really is all about the perspective you bring to it.

peace to you.

Tony,

It is a matter of perspective but I hope that my post did not come across with the insinuation that I thought D9 orgs. as elitist. What I was trying to do was to say that there is a place for all organizations and sometimes individuals and/or groups that are older tend to be dismissive of the utility of newer groups. If I implied that I thought these organizations were elitist that certainly was not my intent. I have family members in D9 organizations and they provide useful service to the community and to the members who are part of these organizations. My concern is about opening our arms to embrace other organizations to fulfill different people's needs. There isn't a singular Black Greek experience and one organization can't meet the needs for everyone and shouldn't even try in my opinion.

And there were some comments about the utility of these newer organizations which to me implies questioning their right to exist. I could be wrong...I don't have all the answers but I am hopeful that Black people in BGLO's or not will come to understand that we all have something useful to offer and to not tear someone down simply because the idea is new.

PhDiva

Re: Crabs in a Barrell
 

BTW, I also agree with that P.S. remark. ;)

http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/aud1.jpg

NOW CAN THE CHURCH GET AN AMEN??


http://www.geocities.com/jmadindian/aud10.jpg

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!

It may not be that. Those people who decided to start their own legacy are no different from the women who started DST, Zeta, SGRho or even AKA; they all wanted to start something new and different.

I am tired of people thinking that the ONLY options for Black women are the 4 NPHC sororities. There are hundreds of organizations out there, do you. At the end of the day it's your commitment, time AND money, not mine,lol.

Why has this thread been resurrected? I thought we had all resolved to just let things roll and enjoy whatever organizations we were in. And folks ignore RainMain cause it's fun, he's on the list of folks that are just amusing.

PhDiva,

No offense taken here. Welcome to GC (I shoulda said that yesterday), kick off your shoes and stay awhile. While I hear your contention that "sometimes individuals and/or groups that are older tend to be dismissive of the utility of newer groups" there is simply an equally valid contention that some who may bring such charges have personal agendas stemming from personal situations. It's an ever-moving target. To some we will just never do "enough." No earthly person can do "enough." But I've yet to hear any D9 org, or D9 member here, say we have or that others can't help.

The 120 or so D9ers who regularly post (and a lot of non-affilliated friends who post here and put lots of community work) here talk often about things our chapters and orgs do, but none of us can really speak accurately to the D9's collective impact nationally or internationally. By that same token, those who stand outside and criticize, surely speak from even a less informed point of view. Sure, they have a right to suggest we're dismissive, and some D9ers may agree. But those of us who don't agree, and who do the work, equally have the right to set the record straight against such criticism. I think that's what you're reading, rather vigorously I'll admit, in this thread.

again, welcome to GC. :cool:

MeezDiscreet, that is bulljive! I will not allow you or anyone else to use that as a easy (and weak) excuse regarding the numerous legitimate issues I have made regarding NPHC politics and policies here on GC through the years.

I would say no more than 3% of all posts that I have made since I have logged on GC has had any game show references on them. And yes, they are all in fun and are supposed to be amusing (thanx msn4med) b/c it is a visual extension of my true personality.

If we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, the dismissive remarks are primarily due to no one wanting to own up to their org's shortcomings and inadequacies. NO org is infallible, and when an "outsider" objectively tells it like it is, folk get defensive. That is probably the biggest reason why I haven't joined an NPHC org, I don't want to wear rose-colored glasses.

BTW, PHDiva, I also give you a hearty welcome to GC and thank you so much for your insightful and well-thought out points.

Who are we to own up to?

The only person I will 'own up to about' Alpha Kappa Alpha is another Alpha Kappa Alpha woman.

:D

CO to the SIGN :cool:

Biggest reason, huh?

I find this hard to believe :rolleyes:

Precisely. I'm not owning up to my sorority to outsiders. We can handle our own business.

Believe it, Skee! If I had wanted to join an org, that would've been done a long time ago.

There is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING external that is keeping me from joining. The only thing that is keeping me from joining an NPHC org is me and me only. And yes, not joining keeps my views objective.

Clarification
 

I am not saying to air all your dirty laundry, just to humbly admit to us that your org is not perfect and that there are infrastructure issues to overcome, rather than blow smoke in everyone's face (read: dismiss criticism) and create this illusion that these orgs are akin to heaven on earth.

That can be done when you (speaking generally) become a member of ANY organization.

How does any of that affect one's day? How does that put food on one's table;clothes on one's back? pay one's phone, light, gas bills? :confused:

So, when that is done, you'll be 'happier than a runaway slave'? :confused:

I think that it is understood, or SHOULD be that the ONLY perfect entity is the higher power above.


(The reason for the season :D)

Re: Re: Crabs in a Barrell
 

That is your opinion, one which you are entitled to, and one which I will humbly respect.

Next!

RM,
Ignorance is bliss to some..and they like it that way. And also, a lot of black members that are in greek lettered orgs didnt really have anything else to define themselves by before they joined, so now they hold on to the orgs for dear life. Some were not pretty before they joined..now all of a sudden they are (at least they think so ;) )..some didn't do a lick of community service before they joined..now they do.. On one hand this is a good thing..I guess...but on the other hand it says a lot about where these folks get their sense of self worth. All that said, its obvious why no matter what some are not going to admit their orgs shortcomings.

Your points are well taken RM, but you're preaching to the choir here on GC with these particular comments!

Re: Clarification
 

Question: You say you've been on GC 5 years. Have you ever seen anyone get on here and say their organization was perfect and/or without obstacles (either internal or external) to overcome. If so, please note the org. page and thread title. I'd like to go read it for myself.

Clearly, no organization is perfect, but please show me how or why it becomes relevant/necessary to "humbly admit" any of this to you, or to anyone else for the purpose of this debate? What is gained by that --by you or by any of the D9 members who'd make said "humble admission"? Would the admission somehow allow us to work w/more determination in our community service? Would it gain your support of our causes?

And, lastly, would such an admission lessen any of the outside criticism (somehow, I doubt it.)

LoveSpell, that humbled me
 

Love Spell,

While I could respond with a Hello!, a WAYLE!, or an AMEN!, the only way I can respond to your post is with a big cyber-hug, a smile, and a tear in my eye.

Your post is absolutely on target and well-received! There is nothing more I can say about this; for you said it all.

Carry on, GCers, carry on!

See, before I just thought you were confused, but you've now cleared up any doubt. Thanks for the clarification.

You are a part of one of the D9 orgs that Rainman loves to bash (and secretly covets), are you not? But yet you agree with him questioning our very existence? :confused: Why join or continue claiming an org that you don't seem to have much love for and whose primary purpose is the upliftment of the black community when you take every opportunity to belittle that very same community? Counterproductive, much? Your intentions just seem mad shady to me. I'm sure there's some ultra conservative, non-black, debate club out there that would love to have you. I'm not even going to give much thought to that whole "self worth" nonsense. I think everyone reading this questions yours every time you post.

By the way, you've totally misused the cliché "preaching to the choir" in this instance.

Anyway, I've finally read through this entire thread and I think that, as usual, members of the D9 have held it down in here in the midst of naysayers. We've been doing that since 1906.

Say, like my soul let the...
 

I am going out on limb here and playing the "yurugu's" advocate.

Rainman and Love_Spell_6--you two would make a beautiful couple with pretty chilluns... Y'all should hook up...

J/K

Anyhow, maybe you guys are right. Some of what outsiders see is not exactly what really exists in some hellified chapter meetings. And what we present to the outside community in your respective communities could be improved.

And the overall generalize founding of each of the NPHC organizations should not be thrown out like baby with the bath water just because there is not something in the African American community not being addressed. And yes, maybe another black greek organization could fulfill those needs... Who knows, it may work wonders.

And other organizations should have the right to exist to their leisure. And it is the young people that see on their respective campuses that recognizes the perceived discord among the NPHC organizations. So it would be easier to form a new group rather than entering into some mess...

And at the same time, some folks just have not given NPHC organizations there due chance to their final vows and precepts they took during rituals or seriously considered what it would take to be a fully participating member... Basically, nothing was "broken down" to them. So they lash out and hurt those that did see or didn't see their true selves. Then these folks hang on for dear life proving to those they are worthy members or say all out forget it, I'm inactive!!!

And I also think that one cannot complain when they do nothing about it to implement change... If you plan to fail, you fail to plan and you must freely give up your life so that you may live it... So on and so for... And render unto Caesar what is his...

But we are a part of a larger society where its initial intent was to destroy our whole being. That we had to make some sembelences [sp?] to the mainstream society culture. Secret societies were design to implement an underground organization and communication plan of action. To send messages over to the other side when questions were not asked at a time of war... To reinvigorate a positivity among its people and personhood... Most of the NPHC organizations founded before 1930 were the first line of defense before the KKK came in burning down whole African American communities... If it had not been for a few members in organizations to stand up to these lunatics, many poor, impoverished African American communities would be dead due to genocide... Much of like is what happened in Rwanda and what is happening in Dafur...

However, what the young folks are telling our esteemed organizations that our time has passed. Out with the old and in with the new... But I just don't accept that...

I see young teen girls that sorely need an upliftment in self-esteem and education that I cannot quit my commitment to them but through Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. Don't you know the United State government is coming down hard on all organizations and their legitamacy based on Homeland Security... These new African American organizations will be the first to go without our help... Without the vision of those long ago in the NAACP, National Urban League, NPHC and many other older organizations--these younger ones would not exist...

Regardless of the history between the founding of the NAACP, NUL versus the Back to African Movement, it still remains--who has final longevity? Especially in times like these?

Then what right do you have to bring us down?

Re: Say, like my soul let the...
 

AkA Monet,
Since you actually have some valid comments to add to the topic at hand...I'll respond to you....as for Meez Discreet and Bamboozled...I dont even think enough of what you guys said in your posts to address the nonsense..

As far as the orgs..I don't think the legitimacy and the fact that much good is done is in question...DST leads the way on many, many, many accomplishments...however, there is also some negative things that plague ALL the D9 orgs that should be addressed..but are not because some folks refuse to admit they exist. I think some look at it as if the good that the D9 orgs do wipe out the bad...and to some extent it does..but I'm one that always strives for excellence and is always looking for ways to improve. If there our shortcomings, I'm not going to tiptoe around the issues just to appear as if we have everything together. DST's records speaks for itself with all the accomplishments as well as other orgs...

I agree with you that those that sit back and complain and do nothing are part of the problem as well. My main beef with all the orgs is that all this good is done but the ultimate good deed which is leading folks to Christ is often shunned...but thats a whole 'nother topic lol.

All these orgs are a part of our history and have done great things in the past..but as issues in society change, so should our focus and priorities.

Thanks Aka Monet for your always insightful posts ;)

P.S. You trying to play matchmaker? ;) :p

OMG!! :eek: :eek:

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

CF&O, CF&O, CF&O :D :D :D *wipes tears from his eyes from laughing so hard*

Bamboozled, thank you so much for brightening up my Friday morning with your wonderful sense of humor. I needed a good laugh after staying up late last night watching a BORING Apprentice finale. Yes, laughter is truly the best medicine.

Also, give Mo'Nique and Sommore a holla; you might become the 5th Queen of Comedy.

Thanx again.

Carry on, everyone!

I gotta respond to this (One more hijack)
 

You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing yesterday...matter of fact, I was reading some of her GC posts to see what her personality is like.

Hey, LoveSpell, you got a pic of yourself on the Look at Me thread? *LOL*

Ok, I'm done, I'm done!

*quickly backs out of room*

Re: I gotta respond to this (One more hijack)
 

PM me Rain Man. ;) I exchange pics on a 1 on 1 basis...posting pics on the net for random folks isnt my stylo

Rain Man,
Now you see why I have a fan club :D