More thoughts after finishing this weekend
 

I'm surprised she didn't include any of the sisters' catty comments about her overdone eyeliner.

I wasn't thrilled with the chapter in which she gives away ritual. First, she's dead wrong on a lot of it, and some of what she gives away can be found in any pledge manual or website. I realize that disgruntled initiates of any GLO will give away aspects of ritual, but is it necessary to publish it in a book that yearns to be on the best-seller list? Did any group try to get an injunction against publication? (Are there any threads about what can be done to stop the spread of ritual information by disgruntled members, or even gruntled members who share it with their boyfriend/girlfriend? Just wondering ... feeling protective after reading the book.)

Second, the comparison and juxtaposition of ritual and spring break? "I just had sex with a Jamaican on the dance floor," and here's a sorority's secret whistle. I don't get it. It's obvious that she's trying to lump spring break "rituals" in the same categories of initiation and chapter, but it's quite a stretch.

I was very angry at the way she promoted BGLOs as morally superior to HWGLOs - pages and pages about their community service and how their alumni are so involved and so successful, with only a paragraph about hazing. Never mind that she talks about the AKA drownings at the beginning and at the end, and cites it as a horrible example of hazing, while giving the casual (or non-Greek) reader the impression that it was an NPC sorority that did it. (I don't mean to pick on AKA or any other BGLO - just trying to pick on Robbins' writing style or lack thereof and her incredible bias.) She criticizes NPC organizations for promoting careers within the sorority (which, again is contrary to my experience), yet praises a Delta who rose high in government after being Delta's executive director.

Robbins contends that being in a sorority doesn't help your career - just ask Sue Grafton, who is the only alum cited after Robbins sent questionnaires to many prominent alumnae. Where are the quotes from the others? Not juicy or negative enough for publication, I suppose.

I haven't looked it up, but does NPC really prohibit treatment or distinction of pledges and actives? (This wasn't the rule when I was in college, so I'm not familiar with it.) I do agree that you can't say you're going to treat everyone exactly the same while not letting pledges participate in ritual, wear crests, etc., but I'm not sure that NPC has this requirement. If in fact they do, it's not only inconsistent, but it's ridiculous and unnecessary. If you join the Junior League, you're treated differently your first year than once you're a full active member. If you join Kiwanis or Rotary, you have to do certain things for a period of time before you're eligible for offices, etc. Not allowing pledges to wear crests or even letters is not the same as hazing. I agree that we need to focus on real hazing that physically and emotionally endangers pledges.

Academics: maybe this was just an anomaly at my school, but Greek women always had a higher overall GPA than non-Greek women. Robbins would like us to believe otherwise.

Summary: easy read but definitely fiction. My fear remains that non-Greek parents will not let their daughters go through recruitment/rush after hearing about this book.

Re: More thoughts after finishing this weekend
 

angelove. I think this was her making a value judgement about social organizations.

See my previous post. She seems to believe that we don't do enough service to really justify our existance. That we need to do certain things to prove our relevance.

Thats when she starts talking about how college resources are wasted on social greeks etc. And compares NPC/IFC parties which are closed, to nphc parties which are traditionally open to the whole campus. She sees it as a form of elitism completely neglecting the fact thats its a simple risk management issue.

College admins themselves close down chapters that throw huge parties.

So I disagree that we need to prove our relevance through acts of service and open parties.

James - I agree with you & everyone else that GLOs are social organizations and that's why we joined. That said, I'll clarify my previous post in which I said that Greeks should do more community service - I think that everyone, Greek or not, collegiate or not, should do more community service (and not just the type imposed by court order;)). I don't think we need to prove our relevance by doing it - it's just a nice thing to do. Plus it would be a good opportunity for chapter PR reps to do press releases and get some positive media to counteract Robbins and her ilk.

I also was irritated by her value judgment re: fundraising, using the pancake breakfast as an example - if a group is raising money for a good cause, who cares how it's being done? If someone is willing to pay $10 to eat a pancake made of beer and flour, but the money is going to help poor children or illiterate adults, who cares? Charitable organizations don't always need volunteers - they need $$$$, and that's what Greeks provide. I wonder what Robbins' tax returns would show for charitable contributions ...

On one hand, James, I agree with you. We're social organizations. Why should we have to justify that to people?

On the other hand, Greeks are always talking about how they're the cream of the college crop, and I think that is what irks some people. If we simply referred to ourselves as social organizations I think most people would be fine with it. What bothers them is us claiming that we're setting an example, holding ourselves to higher standards -- and then slacking on the service aspect of our organizations in order to spend more time getting liquored up.

I think the whole "85% of Presidents are Greek, more Greeks graduate yadda yadda" came about in just the past few years, as Greeks felt they had to justify their existence. It used to be "Greek life is OK for others, it's just not for me" or "Greek life is stupid but if they want to waste their time on it, who gives a crap?" Now it's more like "I don't like Greeks and because of this I don't think they should exist even if others want to be one."

That's not just Greek life though, that's a host of other things as well. "Live and let live" seems to be an extinct concept.

I think anti-Greek bias on some campuses comes from the fact that the Greeks might have better/more housing opportunities than independents, but that certainly isn't so everywhere. I also think there's a lot of misconceptions about who is paying for what in GLO's - I'm sure there are people who think if you're in a sorority you live in your house for free or something.

Greeks were largely social with little thought to anythig else (yes, there was philanthropy, but it has come a long way!) until the mid-80's when a report was published on the negative impact of Greeks on college campuses. At that point, HQ's had to reshape the image of Greek Life. ADPi was the first to do this, with the roll-out of the Total Membership Education program, or TME. It shortened the new member period considerably, established more PC terminology, set a zero tolerance level for hazing, increased academic expecations and tools for academic success, and provided yearround programming for members and non members on relevant issues facing college students (trainings on leadership, career networking, eating disorders, date rape, wellness and fitness, etc.)

I can't remember the name of that report... The White Papers, perhaps?

I'm over halfway through the book...and almost totally disgusted. I don't think the boy drama at the Alpha Rho house really is significant in a book about sorority life. It's not anything unique to Greek Life. Independents also have boy drama. I wish Robbins had maybe focused a bit less on personal habits and more on aspects of these girls lives that are uniquely greek. She's acting as if these girls bad choices are made solely because they are greek.
I'm still not entirely sure that this book is based on the greek system at my school, but there are glimpses here and there. I think some of the details are universal to almost any large southern school.

Okay, this book still isn't available at my library.

Can someone scan a copy into their computer and post it here so we can all read it? ;)

about half way through
 

hello--
i'm sure what i'm going to say has already been said but its all good :)
i'm about half way through and not really suprised about anything, parts of it seemed drawn out like all of the boy ordeals finding dates. i bought it this afternoon and seriously read it for a good hour and a half. i've flipped through most of the book and can't say that i completely agree with her giving away rituals but, as someone said earlier, it may settle the minds of the people who think we do weird things at intiation/ritual stuff like a lot of the people i know who aren't in sororities or fraternities. i was honestly suprised so far with all of they hype; the sections people complain about are just that, sections of the book but i do like how it talks about how the sisters support each other. i figured it would be chapter x of school y did z and so forth. i think the thing is that we know its things going on but its hard to read in print just how anything is. i pretty much got it b/c our rush people were nervous about how it would affect rush and questions pnm could ask but from what i've already read, its the same things and stories i heard before i went into rush from various other sources such as the movies from lifetime.

have a wonderful summer!

one more thing....i think she tried to take a huge topic and make into something simple and then put all of it into words. its so general in parts that it could be talking about college life in general

I finished it last night. I don't really have strong feelings about it one way or another. There were parts that I read and thought, "This totally goes on in my house" and parts that I read and thought "she really stretched this."

I'm not a big fan of her journalism at all. There were a ton of parts where she was really stretching to make fairly normal goings ons seem controversial.

I did like how she cited GC twice in her end notes though :D

Well I just finished reading the book and I have so much to say, that I have decided not to say it because you would be here forever reading my post. I mean I would have to write an essay about it and we all know how much we hate reading essay type posts ;) .

So this is what I got from her book.

HWGLOs=bad
BGLOs=good
Co-Ed GLOs=even better because they have lots sex with each other.

Ok seriously. My biggest issue with her is her lack of research. While yes, she has a disclaimer saying not all chapter behave like this, her writing is so generalized that no matter how many times she says this some people will still think that they do (I also don't believe that she truely believed her disclaimer either). If she really wanted to show a balanced side of(like she said she did) she would have observed another chapter. She wuld have looked at chapters at smaller school, chapters in the northern U.S, she would have even looked at chapters in Canada. My experience is the complete opposite of what she writes about I cannot relate to anything she says.

I also have issues with her writing style. Sure she used end notes, but even using endnotes requires you to mark your references. She did not do that in her book. I also don't like how when writing about these girls she made it sound like she was writing a fiction novel. Someone mentioned her using direct quotes when the girls were talking. Were you there? Especially the part when "Amy" and "Spencer" were about to have sex and Amy told him no. It sounded like she was in the room with them taking notes and recording the episode. I don't think so! I also have a hard time believing that it's all true. She has changed some many things, names or sororities, people's names, colours, dates, etc, etc that it makes we wonder if she did make it up, or maybe some of it. It's hard to take her seriously when her facts can't be verified. I thought journalists were supposed to only use facts that could be verfied even if they were to keep their cources anonymous?

I could go on and on. But really my biggest issue with the book was her research (or lack thereof) and her writing. If this was an academic paper, she would have failed.

Since a number of people have brought it up . . .

Recounting conversations verbatim that she might not have even been present for or would have to recall later is par for the course for "creative nonfiction," which is how she set up the Alpha Rho/Beta Pi sections. So please, stop complaining about it -- it's completely accepted within the writing world. However, do take what she writes in those sections with a grain of salt.

I have a question though. When I read the book, I was under the impression that Caitlin/Sabrina/etc. KNEW that Ms. Robbins was undercover and writing a book, it was simply the other girls in the houses that didn't. I think I read an interview that backs this up . . . However, everyone on GC seemed to think that she had been one hundred percent undercover -- maybe I just skimmed over the part where she mentioned this in the book? Somebody help me out here.

My impression is that yes, those four girls knew she was writing a book/researching sorority life. She doesn't specify how she approached them. Did she tell them what kind of book it was going to be? I don't know. Maybe even Ms. Robbins herself didn't really know what kind of book she was going to write until after the interviews wrapped up (though I highly doubt that). The other girls in the chapters, though, most likely didn't know Ms. Robbins was undercover.

Should that grain of salt be accompanied by a large margarita? ;)

Of course. :D

Well I don't like it and it's not acceptable to me, so I will complain about it!

You're free to do whatever you want.

I'm just saying that it's like complaining that a book is separated into paragraphs or something.

I'm surprised that so many people haven't run into that convention before.

Does the convention apply if the book is billed as nonfiction/"a true expose' of sororities" rather than "creative nonfiction"?

Good review. Echoed many of the same sentiments some GCer's had about the book. And the review was written by a guy, no less.

the book wasn't as bad as I thought. When I was reading the parts about the women I felt like I was reading a young adult novel about girls going off to the first year of college.

As for the ritual part, I was really nervous since she was supposed to have revealed info about my sorority. I had no reason to worry though - I think she got some of her info about passwords, etc from our signatures here on greekchat. From what I've seen most of the sororities on here have some form of LIT followed by whatever symbol. Well somehow she has the idea that LITP is our secret password.

Other "secrets" she supposedly reveals about other sororities talks about how different chapters in the same sorority have completely different rituals for initiation etc. From what i understand everyone of the national sororities have every one fo their chapters use the same ritual book so how could there be such different rituals for the same ceremony. Of course in the secrets section she is contanstly refering back to one particular website to reveal secrets.

I didn't like that she seemed to imply that all our older alum don't remember any of the meaning of our rituals. I've ran in to some alum that were initiated in the 50's, they aren't active as volunteers etc, but remember with love and pride the meaning behind things, etc.

The best way to think of this book is as MTV's sorority life in book form. Or even better this could have been the script for Sorority Life.

It's hard to say.

To me, I felt like this book was actually two books -- the story of Vicki/Amy/Sabrina/Caitlin, and the sorority "expose." The way she sets up the Vicki et al. sections are creative nonfiction. The way she sets up the expose is not.

So you could argue either way. But personally I think it's nitpicky.

And I agree with the review. The biggest problem with this book is not that it lies, but the fact that it sets up things that are legitimate problems at SOME schools, some chapters to be true of the entire system, which they are clearly not.

I didn't find it half bad but the only thing that was irratating was the use of many sorority rituals within the chapters and supposedly greekchat was cited for where she got song lyrics...page 42 I believe.

Something interesting: I was online checking to see which stores in Toronto have this book. There were about 6 or so left one day, and 0 the next day!!!

I just picked this one up for a little summer reading! I hope it doesn't suck or piss me off, haha :D A few have mentioned maybe IU as the possible setting for the book, so I'm especially interested to read and see what I think! A lot of the characterisitics described below fit IU (although we're not 'southern' per se, our system is very traditional and powerful), we have large houses that sleep lots of women, though we have 19 chapters, and hae deferred recruitment but technically start rush in the fall with the first round and continue it in january.

Also, the Beta Pi chapter of AXiD is at IU - i don't think we have an Alpha Rho - but we do have the Alpha Mu chapter of AXO... though i doubt she would make it that obvious!

I think this book is def 'creative nonfiction'. I took a class last semester called "Creative Nonfiction Workshop" and accoring to my prof, the facts can change "so long as the feeling is correct." I really think this is what Robbins is doing.

I feel like the part about the girls actually is fiction. I really think if you strung those chapters together, it would flow like a novel. I also find it highly irratiating with the chapters in between(when she discusses the politcs behind the chapter and what not.

But after reading the chapter about the NGLA, I am begining to doubt her more and more. I went to NGLA. I know I was in the one session she discussed (about the PR War Room) and the opening session about the sterotypes. I *think* I was in one of the other sessions she talked about. She took things WAAAY out of context. Further more, we were in Pittsburgh in March. No one was wearing spagetti straps. Was I wearing my tailored suit? Yes. Was I carring my Coach saddle bag? Yes. But I also wore the same clothes to a conference on intercollegic student athletes.

I haven' finished the book yet...I just had to get that part about the NGLA off my chest.

Bump for Deltasigstan

I read the book, ironically enough, for my alumnae chapter's book club. I thought it was entertaining. Of course, I don't condone her sharing ritual (and thank GOODNESS mine wasn't in there!), but everything else was pretty much on point.

I had a small chapter at a very liberal private university--but you know what? Any of those four women--and their surrounding drama--could have been in my house.

PLEDGED
 

I AM NOT GREEK, BUT TO BE HONEST I DONT SEE HOW YOU ALL WERE NOT PISSED WHEN YOU READ IT. i WAS PISSED FOR YOU! tHERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS IN THERE ABOUT A LOT OF YOUR SORORITIES THAT I FEEL THE PUBLIC SHOULDNT KNOW. I KNOW IN BLACK SORORITIES THAT WOULDNT HAVE HAPPEND BECAUSE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SECRET THAT IS WHAT SETS YOU APART FROM NON GREEKS AND I FEEL YOUR RITUALS..SHOULD BE SACRED AND SECRET. AFTER ALL, WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO BE GREEK IF THEY KNOW INSIDE STUFF ONLY SORORS OR SISTERS SHOUD KNOW?

whoa.

Re: PLEDGED
 

The thing is, no one but actual sisters would know if the information Ms. Robbins put in her book is true or not. Her version of "research" doesn't seem very solid to me, so I would be shocked if much of what she wrote is accurate.

Re: PLEDGED
 

Hi RAVEGIRL, this is your Caps Lock button speaking...Caps Lock would like to go on vacation now, thanks.

I'd like to echo KR and say that the research Ms. Robbins did for her book has no solid foundation. No one but members of XYZ sorority will know for sure if the "info" divulged in the book are true or not. Will they come forth and admit the truth? No respectful sister would ever do such a thing.

It's not just the NPHC sororities that hold their rituals with high regard. NPC, Multi-cultural, local, professional sororities' members also do the same.

So no, I wasn't "pissed" when I read the book. Why? Because I know what MY collegiate sorority experience was like and I know that thousands of others experienced the same thing. It'd be nice to say that the book is BS, but some of the crap she writes about does happen, and it's the stupid people that ruin it for us all. I read the book strictly for entertainment purposes and I encourage others to do the same, not as the "be all, end all" of sorority life, but read it so that you can appreciate your sorority affiliation and your memories a little bit more.

Finally...I read on the LJ SororityGirl Community that Paramount's thinking about turning the book into a motion picture. I sooooo can't wait. :p :rolleyes:

Re: PLEDGED
 

How do you know it wouldn't have happened in an NPHC sorority? Disgrunted members span all conferences. Believe me, we all have secrets and aspects to our ritual that you know nothing about. Reading Pledged isn't going to enlighten you about the world of NPC sororities.

Like my girls KR and OTW said, so much of it seems so unrealistic that most of us can't help but to let it roll off our shoulders. I thought it was entertaining as hell...like a novel, even.

Well, it was a long wait, but my turn finally came up on the hold list and "Pledged" is sitting on my desk in front of me. Now I can enjoy the book without lining Ms. Robbins' pockets! :D

I just started reading plegded, but I already know the details about the book because half my chapter has read the book. The book reads very much like a novel, however I don't find her writing that good. She jumps around from character to character, then she talks about sororities in general, which makes it hard to read. I do not appreciate that she glorifies ethnic based sororities. They are good and all, but she makes its seem like only they do philanthropy and NPC's don't. In the first chapter she mentions an AKA incident, but she doesn't mention it is NPHC. Also, the quotes at the begining of the chapters from "Rush: A Girls Guide to Sority Success, 1985" I heard that book was a joke written for Greeks. However, Ms. Robbins is quoting it as if it were real.
Whether her information is correct or incorrect, Ms. Robbins is doing her job. She could right an entire book on Sorority ritual and be totally incorrect, but you know it would sell. And that is her goal, to make money.

I had never lent a lot of credence to the idea that if you weren't Greek you couldn't understand what Greek Life was about until I read this book.

I always thought that anyone with half a brain could extrapolate general human interactions and apply it to something specific such as greek life.

Until I read Miss Robbins.

She went to Yale so you know she has at least an Average IQ and probably an above average work ethic and yet she didn't seem to be able to comprehend that people are people and that most of the illustrated activities are far from unique to Greek Life.

Scary.

No matter the intelligence, work ethic, etc. people will see what they want to see. She had it in her head that Greeks are all party hardy alcoholic whores, and so she did her best to seek out information that proved her right. Nevermind that Greeks have higher GPAs, more community service hours, etc. She doesn't see that. So much for journalistic integrity. :rolleyes:

Actually...I was wondering about that. I thought those quotes were hilarious and so cartoonish that the book had to be some kind of joke that Miss Robbins failed (purposefully or not) to get. I really want to read the rest of it, but I can't find it anywhere! :)

Isn't it amazing what a good photo touch-up can do???

Alexandra Robbins picture on the "Pledged" book jacket
http://www.secretsofthetomb.com/photo200w.jpg


Random pic of A.R. on the Internet
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/alexandria.jpg

Robbins is the one on the left, correct? :p


Apparently girls still get nose jobs for graduation.