Re: I'm sorry, one more post, just one more...
 

no, this is extremely irrelevant. whether or not MY history and intake process includes phi beta kappa is completely pointless in regards to non-bglo's stepping. i could care less if these non-pan organizations learn the history behind stepping because it's not ingrained in them so they will never truly appreciate it. if people want to copy it, that's fine. doesn't mean i have to agree with it.

Re: Re: Bottom Line
 

i've never done that. i could care less. they're the one who come on a greek website telling us what they did during their process.

Whoa, this has blown up since this afternoon.

Like LI84?, I owe no explanation of my pledge process to anyone but those who made me and deemed me worthy of the letters. But I will say this GP, in America it is impossible to NOT be aware of numerous elements of white culture, be that fraternal existence or whatever else. Yeah, I could expound on Phi Beta Kappa but why?

Alpha's "jewels" (founders) sought and were denied inclusion in the fraternities of their day at Cornell, so they looked inside and took it to another level -- a higher level that surpassed all they saw. They started something that is well and ably advanced by ALL members of the D9 in communities throughout this nation and internationally, on a daily basis.

While I do support what we and the Sigmas did at Purdue, I do understand and give strong consideration to SKEEphistAKAte's point.

RainMan, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but beyond cursory observation, how can you discuss the mental processes inherent in what any of the D9s do? You say: "the current generation of members (Generation X and Y) simply do not know what it means to be HUMBLE, and to proactively act with true discerning WISDOM!" How exactly do you know this? All you know is what you see, right? I'm guessing there were say, 200 AfAm men arrested today across the U.S. Does that mean that tomorrow someone should watch you extra carefully?

I think everybody needs to step back from challenging anyone else's "blackness" or whether they served Black people at the expense of Christian people (as if the groups are mutually exclusive).

We ALL know why we do what we do and we ALL know that nobody in THESE United States does it betta. believe that.

peace to everybody on GC and I'm done with this one.

The only reason Geeky Penguin brought up Phi Beta Kappa was (I assume, since I was thinking the same thing) to point out the irony of you saying "WGLOs stole our stepping", when your founders "stole" a great deal of their ritual and org structure from existing (W)GLOs, who in turn "stole" them from earlier GLOs and so on all the way back to Phi Beta Kappa. And PBK "stole" it from the Masons, who "stole" it from the renaissance era societies in Europe, etc., etc.

Irony. Hypocrisy. Whatever you want to call it. I think you knew exactly what she was saying in the first place, but I guess it's easier for you to deflect the question with rhetoric than it is to give her an honest answer to her very reasonable question.

wptw

you're kidding right? no, really none of us knew what she was talking about and either way it really didn't have anything to do with the thread. this thread is based on WGLO's viewing BGLOs as stepping organizations only. did you even bother to read the rest of it? using your logic, WGLOs are going to eventually start stepping on their own and incorporating it into their history and culture because you know....we all originated from somewhere. and if you read anything, you would know that it was already answered. no, we don't care to know the history phi beta kappa. comprende'?

Funny how you understood exactly what I meant...

I did read the whole thread. It was very interesting.

No one was trying to educate you about Phi Beta Kappa. Heaven forbid! It's just funny that groups who basically copied the entire structure of existing GLOs (and then copied from each other until there were 9 of similar character) are now up in arms about what's "theirs", and all worried about being copied.

I guess the irony is lost on you. Oh well.

wptw

i highly doubt that purpose of the founding of any of the BGLO's was to imitate and copy and more to have something on their own. the format of GLO's might be similar, but the purpose is completely different. i.e. we're not social organizations. we are gear torwards service. giving back to the community. the MAJOR difference between this and your point is that what the WGLOs are doing is imitation, copying, stealing....and in no way making it unique or distinctive. until i see theta chi or chi omega or whoever win a real stepshow, my opinion on this matter will not be swayed.

OK. Fair enough.

I understand that the D9 are different, and were founded for different purposes. In my opinion, they did a smart thing in the beginning by "borrowing" structural elements from existing GLOs that they found useful or appealing (officer structure, ritual structure, etc.) and adapting it to their unique needs and adding their own unique elements. I'm not saying it was a bad thing, or that they copped out somehow. It's just hard for me to distinguish between that situation and this situation where NIC/NPC groups are borrowing elements they find useful or appealing.

But some of you obviously DO think it's somehow different, so OK. Fine.

wptw

Zeta Tau Alpha at Valdosta State in Georgia have won many state step shows being the on WGLO in the stepshow. They have always got along with and worked with the BGLO's on campus and are invited now to particpate at campus stepshow events.

OMG, this forum is like crack cocaine, it keeps caaaaaaallin me, man.
 

Let me make one final (I know I keep saying that) attempt to explain why I was primarily responsible for this thread blowing up.

My issue was primarily with SkeephistAKAte who in her initial "disapproval" post was AFAIK was motivated by her concern that white Greeks take stepping and steal the NPHC's thunder in this area. I was merely trying to write this all off as another symptom of "the Omarosa Syndrome", which is the manipulation of the victim mentality in order to justify their own self-serving behavior and attitudes.

In other words, it's OK if the NPHC began GLOs based on historically white or Masonic organizations or begin step shows based on historically white Greek Sing shows (if this is incorrect, let me know and I will retract it). But if they put a unique element in their orgs and a non-NPHC org tries to use it, then GLO be damned. Complaints will fly because everyone will be concerned that their orgs culture will be trivialized and diluted.

Why is that?

Because the Black culture has been oppressed for over 400 years (the victim mentality) and that there needs to be some elements reserved for only Black Greeks/people (the self-serving attitudes and behaviors).

What does that spell?

THE OMAROSA SYNDROME!!

GeekyPenguin and wptw, does this sound about right???

Re: OMG, this forum is like crack cocaine, it keeps caaaaaaallin me, man.
 

Yes, that sounds exactly right. But then again, apparently we don't get it. Actually, just about anyone who comes into an NPHC thread and asks why you do something the way you do is berated and told that they don't get it. Well, no sh*t they don't get it - that's why they're asking. Again, god forbid we should should learn something about each other.

wptw

Re: OMG, this forum is like crack cocaine, it keeps caaaaaaallin me, man.
 

Wow, Rain Man, you said it!

I've been reading this whole thread and I haven't commented because I couldn't find exactly the right words. Thank you for coming up with them.

To borrow from my wonderful Soror ST...

OH.MY.JAYSIS!! I log off to review for my mid-term and attend class and I miss all of this drama!

1st -- CT4---Good stuff!! You are the bomb sistagreek!

2nd --Tony--Also, good stuff Phrat!

3rd--RM--No words. The criticism of the D9 was unwarranted. Smells like "hateration". Also, no comment on the "Omarosa syndrome"

@GP--I understood perfectly what you meant with your reference to Phi Beta Kappa because I am familiar with the emergence and expansion of GLO's in the United States (it's the historian in me). However, I agree with my Soror LI, when I think of AKA, I don't spend a great deal of time dwelling on that history. Yes, organizational and ritualistic structures were borrowed. As someone stated (Tony?) the founders of Alpha Phi Alpha attempted to join GLO's and they were rebuffed. Our point is, why should we revere those people? We tried to "assimilate" and we were denied that opportunity. Now, many of our organizations are nearing a hundred years in age, in spite of this. Our influence has been felt in our communities, cities, states, country, and world. Now, the majority decides that they are "curious" about us. Are they interested in our initiatives, community servicve, and political work? NO!! They want to know more about STEPPING! Do you not see why people are mad?!?

Another thing, why are we so protective of our culture?? We do not have many things that belong to us. Therefore, when we finally have something, we are protective of it.


OH, and you're right...you're never gonna get it!

Having gone to a PWI in a state where racial tension still exists and witnessing first hand some of the things that are posted in the chit chat forums of GC-the antics of the College Republicans, schools trying to interfere with process of the NPHC, and people questioning the purpose of minority organizations among many other things, I support events like this. Whether it's stepping, or having joint programs/community service events, it shows there are people who are willing or want to know about our culture and have an appreciation for it. The Alphas on our campus had an Ebony and Ivory week and it was an event some black and white greeks looked forward to every year. Considering how huge the NPC/IFC was, there wasn't great representation on their part so I'm glad there are some who are tolerant.

We still have people sending death threats to black students, athletes and their families, people dressing up in black face at frat parties over and over again at different universities. I highly doubt we'll be seeing mass white people breaking out in a step routine across the nation anytime soon.

I also think when we state that stepping, hand signs, etc is "our" thing we are getting to the line of saying I don't think anyone else besides black people should join our organizations and do what we do. If you are going to exclude whites, then you have to do the same for the lations or asians who are in our orgs. I wonder how well it would go over if we stated to a frat or soror you can participate in our programs, but you can't step because that's our thing.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but at least I'm trying to keep it positive....here it goes:

I have a question. What about multicultural GLOs? I know some of my sorors step. Are they also looked down upon for doing it?

I'm Black. My father is in NPHC. I know the history, why stepping is done, the reasons for the flamboyant para., etc. Am I allowed to step only because I'm Black? Or does my Black card get taken away? With me not allowed to step.

I can't even respond to this thread anymore because of the dime store, psycho-babble bitter-filled bullsh*t that is fueled on here.

And shoot, I'm not even in the NPHC.

The fact remains that stepping IS NOT the only activity that can bring different groups together. Flat out. I don't care what is "flamboyantly displayed" :rolleyes: as Rain Man put it. Maybe it up to NPHCers that when they received these request, to simply say "no, however let's do ______ instead".

Re: Shoot Me Too: Look at it like this...
 

I'm sure it is a great fundraiser for each orgs programs. ;) :D

There is a big, huge difference between using a pre-existing organizational structure (fraternities/sororities) and co-opting an art form.

To be honest, I dont see the big deal about letting the NPC orgs at this campus step. I can see where the event would be a fun way to bring all Greeks together, and I think the purpose is admirable.

But I also understand the reservations of posters like my Soror SkeephistAKAte. Black culture is all too often cannabalized for the mainstream. Creativity/art forms are an integral part of all cultures, and when that co-opting happens it all too often turns somtehing that was beautiful and meaningful into something ugly, commercial and twisted ( mainsteamhip-hop anyone?) or something that ends up excluding the people who started in the first place (modern rock).

BGLOs using the Greek organizational structure is in no way, shape or form comparable to that.

Quick point--I gotta get back to work
 

To abaici and HK74:

You posts begs a very key and valid question: Why continue to step if you know darn good and well that it serves as a distraction from your true purposes, missions and goals?

If you don't want folk to approach you and ask questions about stepping and how to do it, GET RID OF IT, if only for a season!

Stepping serves no real substantive purpose if you constantly show it off to the world while at the same time hoarding the talent (which is all it is, just TALENT) for yourselves because it does not contribute to the world anything of real value. The message I am consistently hearing in this thread is "I can do it and you can't. I got mine, you got to get yours." That is my whole point.

Gotta get back to work.

Re: Quick point--I gotta get back to work
 

I'm not questioning whether NPHC orgs should continue to step because of what other people think. Not at all. All I'm saying (and have said) is that stepping IS NOT only MEANS that can be used to bring groups together.

For example (I can't remember who) but someone mentioned that at their school, the AKAs and Phi Mu's held a week together called "Think Pink" and that it was very successful. I know that may not be as jazzy or cool as showing them how to step, but that is the type of thing that I was referencing.

Seriously though, how has stepping, calls, etc. been "blown up" to where that's ALL that mainstream America associates with NPHC orgs? Is it featured on TV more than I realize? At PWI, are there step or yard shows held every month or something? This is a serious question that I'm asking because I am in the dark on this one. (Maybe because I attended an HBCU).

Or is it a case of when an NPHC org has a seminar on the AIDS epidemic, no one cares, but when its time to step, everywhere and they momma are there. And if that is the case, maybe it says more about US (the spectators) than them.

Last Post
 

RM: That stuff that you are spewing out is straight garbage. Save it. To, nobody's surprise, you are straight up cooning right now.

Lovelyivy84- You summed up my thoughts exactly. I'm glad somebody got my point.

Whirlwind- You can go ahead and start another thread on what you asked about. Multicultrual orgs is another topic altogether.

By reading Lovelyivy's post I see that I've gotten my point across. If you're black and you disagree with my views, I understand.
If you're white and disagree with my views, I don't give a damn.

Re: Last Post
 

Wow.

Re: Last Post
 

:eek:

Ummm....if this was the other way around, there would've been a lot of drama going on. That comment was kind of uncalled for.

It was called for and won't be apologized for.

My head hurts and this thread makes me ill.