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-   -   White Skin Privilege (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=45513)

starang21 01-24-2004 06:55 PM
just saw this....

can someone PM me a quick recap?

Rudey 01-24-2004 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Phasad1913
As long as there are people who have gone from being a hard core racist to someone who advocates equal rights and humane treatment of all people regardless of color ( I have heard plenty testimonies of this, actually) then, yes, I would say change can happen, but I also know that there will always be someone who refuses to change because their hate has consumed them and because they do, in fact, get a sense of satisfaction and pleasure from their being a beneficiary of white skin privilege.
And I think blood is blood, thoughts are thoughts, and none of it changes unless it suits the person's own personal interests. Maybe your Christian beliefs give you hope for more...if so, good. For me there will never be a time where all people are equal - at least based on race/religion/creed...never.

-Rudey
--So I would never attempt to change the boundaries but to do better given the boundaries

Munchkin03 01-24-2004 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by kappaloo
Here's a question:

How much of this 'privledge' is due to race? And how much is due to social class? (there is a strong co-relation between race and class - on occasion I think they confound eachother)
There is a strong correlation between race and class, but the sorts of things Mackintosh mentions in her article apply to the vast majority of European-born Whites, regardless of class. Such things as, "I can walk into a store and be sure that I am not suspected of being a thief because of my race" are a good example.

Whether or not being part of a certain social class gives persons of color privileges traditionally White territory depends on the individual, I suppose. There are some things I could answer "yes," that some other persons of color would answer "no," but I still cannot answer most because of my race--not of my socioeconomic status.

Phasad1913 01-24-2004 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
And I think blood is blood, thoughts are thoughts, and none of it changes unless it suits the person's own personal interests. Maybe your Christian beliefs give you hope for more...if so, good. For me there will never be a time where all people are equal - at least based on race/religion/creed...never.

-Rudey
--So I would never attempt to change the boundaries but to do better given the boundaries
My statement: "but I also know that there will always be someone who refuses to change because their hate has consumed them and because they do, in fact, get a sense of satisfaction and pleasure from their being a beneficiary of white skin privilege. " and your statement: "For me there will never be a time where all people are equal - at least based on race/religion/creed...never." are pretty much the same, unless, of course you mean yours as an indication that you are a racist by the definition I gave in my earlier post. I don't think you meant this that way though. If you did, ugh. If not, then I will just say that we wound up pretty much ending this 2-way discussion on somewhat common ground and I'm done talking about it....i'm just tired. Thanks for the exchange.

kappaloo 01-24-2004 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Munchkin03
There is a strong correlation between race and class, but the sorts of things Mackintosh mentions in her article apply to the vast majority of European-born Whites, regardless of class. Such things as, "I can walk into a store and be sure that I am not suspected of being a thief because of my race" are a good example.
Your example falls apart here when considered by class. Where I grew up, those of us who showed our social class (by not having the best clothes/upkeep or "rich culture" were followed around being suspected of being thiefs solely based on social class. (it's not fun, I wouldn't suggest it). Would someone who is black by is visibly well-to-do be followed around? Perhaps... *ponders* you're right, this isn't as simple....

I guess the difference is - you can always pretend to be a different social class by altering how you act or dress. You can't really pretend to be a different race.

Munchkin03 01-24-2004 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by kappaloo
Your example falls apart here when considered by class. Where I grew up, those of us who showed our social class (by not having the best clothes/upkeep or "rich culture" were followed around being suspected of being thiefs solely based on social class. (it's not fun, I wouldn't suggest it). Would someone who is black by is visibly well-to-do be followed around? Perhaps... *ponders* you're right, this isn't as simple....

I guess the difference is - you can always pretend to be a different social class by altering how you act or dress. You can't really pretend to be a different race.
But, I would be (and am) followed around suspected of being a thief solely based on my race, as can be said for my Southeast Asian, Latino, and Middle Eastern friends. This is regardless of my dress or other superficial ways class can be expressed. I'm a pretty conservative dresser, yet I am hounded in stores because---you guessed it--I am a person of color. You could probably dress the same way and be okay, another aspect of white privilege.

Like I said, it depends on the person. I was raised to dress and speak in a certain way because others would discount my opinions or attitudes because of my color. Regardless of class, were you brought up that way? Probably not.

Plus, I think now mainstream society is used to people, especially middle to upper-middle class white youths dressing or acting in certain ways to "downplay" one's class.

abaici 01-24-2004 11:33 PM
Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Just a few comments...

Some of the comments in this thread prove the very notion of white skin privilege. White skin privilege allows for a detachment from racial issues. I do not care what you have heard, seen, and studied. If you are a white person in America (I'm focusing on this country), you have no clue how deep the problem is.

I am appalled by the comparisons of African Americans and various immigrant groups. We have a very distinctive history. First of all, we are not immigrants! Several people made a point of comparing African Americans to African immigrants. Immigrants come to a country by their own free will. Big difference. You cannot say, "Sure slavery was bad, but it's over. You people need to get it together. Other people have done it...what's wrong with you guys!" Which is essentially what people's comments amount to. You cannot quantify the damage caused by 400 years of slavery.


Lastly, as E06 stated, people are not addressing the question posed at the beginning of the thread. It's turned into a rant against the disenfranchised.

Taualumna 01-24-2004 11:41 PM
Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by abaici
Just a few comments...

Some of the comments in this thread prove the very notion of white skin privilege. White skin privilege allows for a detachment from racial issues. I do not care what you have heard, seen, and studied. If you are a white person in America (I'm focusing on this country), you have no clue how deep the problem is.

I am appalled by the comparisons of African Americans and various immigrant groups. We have a very distinctive history. First of all, we are not immigrants! Several people made a point of comparing African Americans to African immigrants. Immigrants come to a country by their own free will. Big difference. You cannot say, "Sure slavery was bad, but it's over. You people need to get it together. Other people have done it...what's wrong with you guys!" Which is essentially what people's comments amount to. You cannot quantify the damage caused by 400 years of slavery.


Lastly, as E06 stated, people are not addressing the question posed at the beginning of the thread. It's turned into a rant against the disenfranchised.
Errr..are African immigrants not "African American" once they receive their citizenship? What about children of African immigrants. Many are American by birth. Are they not "African American" too?

abaici 01-24-2004 11:46 PM
Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
Errr..are African immigrants not "African American" once they receive their citizenship? What about children of African immigrants. Many are American by birth. Are they not "African American" too?
You are being technical. Well, of course Africans upon receiving their citizenship are African Americans. However, typically when the term is used Americans of African descent (whose ancestors endured the horrors of the Middle Passage) are the group being referenced.

Dionysus 01-24-2004 11:54 PM
Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by abaici
I am appalled by the comparisons of African Americans and various immigrant groups. We have a very distinctive history. First of all, we are not immigrants! Several people made a point of comparing African Americans to African immigrants. Immigrants come to a country by their own free will. Big difference. You cannot say, "Sure slavery was bad, but it's over. You people need to get it together. Other people have done it...what's wrong with you guys!" Which is essentially what people's comments amount to. You cannot quantify the damage caused by 400 years of slavery.
I agreed with everything you and E06 said, except for this. When we think this way, we are using the past as an excuse for not getting further ahead.

abaici 01-25-2004 12:12 AM
Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dionysus
I agreed with everything you and E06 said, except for this. When we think this way, we are using the past as an excuse for not getting further ahead.
It's true, we have come far. However, the fact that a group of people whose ancestors have lived in this country for hundreds of years have to say this is beyond sad. As for using slavery as a crutch, we have to agree to disagree on this issue. We cannot ignore the past just because it's unpleasant. Studying and understanding history helps us better understand the world we live in and ourselves.

Quick note: I have heard a Jewish person say,"Let's stop harping on the Holocaust. It's in the past" They remember and they will not forget. Furthermore they will not let anyone else forget.

Rudey 01-25-2004 12:27 AM
Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
What the heck are you talking about? Nobody knocked the validity of slavery. I said compare American blacks who've been here for generations as the result of the African diaspora and slavery and Africans who immigrate here now. And if it's about this white privilege why is it that asians who are not white don't experience it? Is it all about skin color?

You're manipulating all that into something it's not and either because you don't understand or dont' want to answer. And of course you had to bring up Jews and how they don't let you forget. Cut me a break. If you'd like to create a thread on Jews and how they're harping on the past and won't let you forget, do it; I like making people look dumb to feed my ego.

-Rudey


Quote:
Originally posted by abaici
Just a few comments...

Some of the comments in this thread prove the very notion of white skin privilege. White skin privilege allows for a detachment from racial issues. I do not care what you have heard, seen, and studied. If you are a white person in America (I'm focusing on this country), you have no clue how deep the problem is.

I am appalled by the comparisons of African Americans and various immigrant groups. We have a very distinctive history. First of all, we are not immigrants! Several people made a point of comparing African Americans to African immigrants. Immigrants come to a country by their own free will. Big difference. You cannot say, "Sure slavery was bad, but it's over. You people need to get it together. Other people have done it...what's wrong with you guys!" Which is essentially what people's comments amount to. You cannot quantify the damage caused by 400 years of slavery.


Lastly, as E06 stated, people are not addressing the question posed at the beginning of the thread. It's turned into a rant against the disenfranchised.

Taualumna 01-25-2004 12:44 AM
Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
What the heck are you talking about? Nobody knocked the validity of slavery. I said compare American blacks who've been here for generations as the result of the African diaspora and slavery and Africans who immigrate here now. And if it's about this white privilege why is it that asians who are not white don't experience it? Is it all about skin color?

You're manipulating all that into something it's not and either because you don't understand or dont' want to answer. And of course you had to bring up Jews and how they don't let you forget. Cut me a break. If you'd like to create a thread on Jews and how they're harping on the past and won't let you forget, do it; I like making people look dumb to feed my ego.

-Rudey

Well, Asian Americans and Asian Canadians have sometimes been asked if they spoke English by a few ignorant fools. But I guess that's not exactly what we're discussing, since people seem to be discussing one's success in life based on skin colour.

Rudey 01-25-2004 12:46 AM
Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
Well, Asian Americans and Asian Canadians have sometimes been asked if they spoke English by a few ignorant fools. But I guess that's not exactly what we're discussing, since people seem to be discussing one's success in life based on skin colour.
Do you generally say really bizarre things in real life as well?

-Rudey
--And spell it right since most of us are Americans; it's color.

damasa 01-25-2004 01:43 AM
Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by abaici
If you are a white person in America (I'm focusing on this country), you have no clue how deep the problem is.

Just because someone is white doesn't mean they "have no clue how deep the problem is."

Some white people do know and some understand and some white people actually do care, let's not discount that.

starang21 01-25-2004 11:52 AM
Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
What the heck are you talking about? Nobody knocked the validity of slavery. I said compare American blacks who've been here for generations as the result of the African diaspora and slavery and Africans who immigrate here now. And if it's about this white privilege why is it that asians who are not white don't experience it? Is it all about skin color?

You're manipulating all that into something it's not and either because you don't understand or dont' want to answer. And of course you had to bring up Jews and how they don't let you forget. Cut me a break. If you'd like to create a thread on Jews and how they're harping on the past and won't let you forget, do it; I like making people look dumb to feed my ego.

-Rudey
actually, asians are the victim of the good ol' boy/white privilege phenomenon.

Taualumna 01-25-2004 12:34 PM
Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by starang21
actually, asians are the victim of the good ol' boy/white privilege phenomenon.
But you can say that it is because of the following:

1) Lack of language skills

2) Lack of "connections" because they're immigrants. Whites have been in the country longer and have had the $$$$$$ longer, and therefore have CONNECTIONS one way or another. Connections makes things easier.

GeekyPenguin 01-25-2004 01:34 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
But you can say that it is because of the following:

1) Lack of language skills

2) Lack of "connections" because they're immigrants. Whites have been in the country longer and have had the $$$$$$ longer, and therefore have CONNECTIONS one way or another. Connections makes things easier.
I don't understand what possesses you to think that all Asians are immigrants from really recent times. My family hasn't even been over here for 100 years. There's certainly Asian families that have been over here longer than that.

I truthfully think that my main beef with this thread is that some of the arguments that are being brought up are ridiculous and something that every culture has experienced from time to time. At first nobody liked the Irish or Italians when they came over. Then we moved from not liking them to not liking Eastern Europeans. I don't think anybody came over here who didn't face some discrimination.

I'm not knocking white skin priviledge, I think it definitely exists. I just think that some of the posters on this thread are acting like my family just showed up over here and said "Hi, we're white" and had fabulous jobs and gobs of money thrown at us. That didn't happen.

Rudey 01-25-2004 02:08 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I'm not knocking white skin priviledge, I think it definitely exists. I just think that some of the posters on this thread are acting like my family just showed up over here and said "Hi, we're white" and had fabulous jobs and gobs of money thrown at us. That didn't happen.
Liar

-Rudey

Tom Earp 01-25-2004 02:33 PM
OK, everyone beleives in the validity of the Trials and Tribulations of the oppressed!

Whether it be by Race or Religion, there have been injustices, agreed.

This is part of History, good or bad, it is there! You cannot change it, Period.

Is not the same thing going on in Iraq at this very moment where our Soldiers are getting killed? Does anyone keep track of the color or religion? No, they are still dead!

:(

Just how many of you have worked with People of the different Races or Religions? Did you ask them first or just find out who they were as a person?:)

OK, I am a white face, I have been working my ass off on my own since I was in the 7 th Grade!

I am far from the Rich and Famous!

"Dont try to wear your history like sack cloth and ashes, you are not a martyr just a person like the rest of us!"

Aimed at no one but to all!

PM_Mama00 01-25-2004 02:51 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
......
I'm not knocking white skin priviledge, I think it definitely exists. I just think that some of the posters on this thread are acting like my family just showed up over here and said "Hi, we're white" and had fabulous jobs and gobs of money thrown at us. That didn't happen.
OMG Kath what are you talking about? Of course they just came over and said "Yello, I'ma from Italia but I'ma white so giveame a job". Then my dad proceeded to grow up very poor, and built his business from nothing. Don't you know that's how it goes? </sarcasm>

You wana know how people go from being nothing to being successful business men? They forget the past, but work harder for their future, and stop complaining about the way they are treated and disrespected. They prove to everyone that they can be something other than what others think them to be.

And that goes for white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Italian, Irish, Greeks.

decadence 01-25-2004 03:26 PM
Those who forget the past are condemned to relive it but...
 
Why must the embracing of 'new' culture(s) be seen as synonymous with rejecting or accepting the dilution, of your own?

Taualumna 01-25-2004 04:11 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I don't understand what possesses you to think that all Asians are immigrants from really recent times. My family hasn't even been over here for 100 years. There's certainly Asian families that have been over here longer than that.

.
The bulk of Asian immigrants haven't been around for 100+ years. Most came after WWII or later, when immigrant laws were a little more relaxed.

madmax 01-25-2004 04:27 PM
There are three guys on an airplane. A black, a white, and an Asian. The plane is going to crash but there only 2 parachutes. Who should get the parachutes?

GeekyPenguin 01-25-2004 04:38 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
The bulk of Asian immigrants haven't been around for 100+ years. Most came after WWII or later, when immigrant laws were a little more relaxed.
You're missing my point...one side my family came overly shortly before WWII. I wouldn't exactly say we've been here forever. I just don't like the attitude I'm getting (much more from you than from the AfAm posters) that Asian people had it so much harder than Irish/Italian/Catholic/etc. My own sorority (and no doubt yours too) wouldn't have accepted my great-grandparents. I'm white. Where's my skin priviledge there? (I'm using this as an example seeing as though this is the GreekChat and all.)

GeekyPenguin 01-25-2004 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by madmax
There are three guys on an airplane. A black, a white, and an Asian. The plane is going to crash but there only 2 parachutes. Who should get the parachutes?
Naturally the black and the Aisan because white men can't jump. ;)

aurora_borealis 01-25-2004 04:39 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
The bulk of Asian immigrants haven't been around for 100+ years. Most came after WWII or later, when immigrant laws were a little more relaxed.
That depends on where one lives. You live in Canada, further east. I grew up in San Francisco. We had Chinese workers coming with the Gold Rush in 1848 and shortly after to build the railroads. The large West Coast (and I mean on the water with shipping ports) cities have a very rich tradition with older families from Asia. It was a matter of geography, most of the ships stopped at Angel Island for immigration purposes. We have Chinatwon, Japantown, Little Manila, and so on with historical landmarked buildings that survived the 1906 earthquake.

It all varies with a frame of reference.

Taualumna 01-25-2004 04:59 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by aurora_borealis
That depends on where one lives. You live in Canada, further east. I grew up in San Francisco. We had Chinese workers coming with the Gold Rush in 1848 and shortly after to build the railroads. The large West Coast (and I mean on the water with shipping ports) cities have a very rich tradition with older families from Asia. It was a matter of geography, most of the ships stopped at Angel Island for immigration purposes. We have Chinatwon, Japantown, Little Manila, and so on with historical landmarked buildings that survived the 1906 earthquake.

It all varies with a frame of reference.
You can say the same about Vancouver, BC and probably Calgary, AB as well. However, many Asians in Vancouver are also recent immigrants. Those with the $$$$$ are almost always from Hong Kong, immigrants who came during the wave in the 1980s. The Greater Toronto Area has a population of 3 or so million, and about 300,000 (I think...it's in the hundred thousands) are Chinese. We have 5 Chinatowns.

Rudey 01-25-2004 05:29 PM
60.6% of all Asians in the US are immigrants (Census 2000).

34.4% (6,674,086) of all Immigrants to the US between 1971-1998 were Asian.

Most Asian are immigrants from recent times.

Now as for their socioeconomic characteristics:

Selected Socioeconomic Characteristics of Immigrant Groups by Home Country Area

*Not Proficient in English*
All U.S.-Born 0.6
All Immigrants 30.5
Asia & Pacific Islands 23.4
Africa 7.6
Europe, Russia & Canada 11.5
Latin & South America & Caribbean 44.0

Less than High School
All U.S.-Born 17.5
All Immigrants 39.1
Asia & Pacific Islands 21.2
Africa 12.1
Europe, Russia & Canada 23.2
Latin & South America & Caribbean 57.4

College Degree
All U.S.-Born 23.1
All Immigrants 23.3
Asia & Pacific Islands 42.5
Africa 43.8
Europe, Russia & Canada 28.9
Latin & South America & Caribbean 9.1

Advanced Degree
All U.S.-Born 2.6
All Immigrants 4.2
Asia & Pacific Islands 6.8
Africa 8.2
Europe, Russia & Canada 5.8
Latin & South America & Caribbean 1.9

-Rudey
--Facts not personal stories.

starang21 01-25-2004 06:36 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
But you can say that it is because of the following:

1) Lack of language skills

2) Lack of "connections" because they're immigrants. Whites have been in the country longer and have had the $$$$$$ longer, and therefore have CONNECTIONS one way or another. Connections makes things easier.
no, not always. sometimes, that really doesn't have anything to do with it. there are times when it's just because it's blatant racism. that doesn't have anythign to do with a language barrier or a newness to the area.

kappaloo 01-25-2004 06:39 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by starang21
no, not always. sometimes, that really doesn't have anything to do with it. there are times when it's just because it's blatant racism. that doesn't have anythign to do with a language barrier or a newness to the area.
I'll have to agree with this. I hardly ever see outright racism towards blacks (where I live - I know this isn't true in the States!!) but I see very open racism towards Asians ALL THE TIME in Waterloo.

starang21 01-25-2004 06:43 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by kappaloo
I'll have to agree with this. I hardly ever see outright racism towards blacks (where I live - I know this isn't true in the States!!) but I see very open racism towards Asians ALL THE TIME in Waterloo.
i've seen it as well, but i have seen blatant and outright torwards black folks. i've seen it more than a few times.

Taualumna 01-25-2004 06:55 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by kappaloo
I'll have to agree with this. I hardly ever see outright racism towards blacks (where I live - I know this isn't true in the States!!) but I see very open racism towards Asians ALL THE TIME in Waterloo.
Isn't that what happens when a school has a large any minority population? Especially when certain groups tend to "stick with their 'own kind'" (I know I sound a little racist like this, but it's true.....)

RACooper 01-25-2004 07:09 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Taualumna
Isn't that what happens when a school has a large any minority population? Especially when certain groups tend to "stick with their 'own kind'" (I know I sound a little racist like this, but it's true.....)
Too true.... there was a backlash against the proliferation of "Asian" clubs at UofT in the early 90's, and more than a few racist jokes made the rounds of the school papers. I'd like to think it has died down, but I can still see it every now and then.

Taualumna 01-25-2004 07:12 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by RACooper
Too true.... there was a backlash against the proliferation of "Asian" clubs at UofT in the early 90's, and more than a few racist jokes made the rounds of the school papers. I'd like to think it has died down, but I can still see it every now and then.
At Queen's, where I did my undergrad, there was a Chinese (not Asian, but Chinese) club for almost every major "mainstream" organization....a Chinese Catholic Students' Club, a Chinese Christian Club, Cantonese Debating Club, etc.....there was also separation (for the most part) between Mandarin speakers and Cantonese speakers. It was freaky....I wasn't involved with any of them.....they seemed to exclude people who didn't read and/or write Chinese.

kappaloo 01-25-2004 07:19 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did I read this thread???? *le sigh*
 
Quote:
Originally posted by starang21
i've seen it as well, but i have seen blatant and outright torwards black folks. i've seen it more than a few times.
Sorry - I should have been more clear - it's a population thing - there just isn't a large black population here. I'm sure I would see blatant racism towards black folks here if the population was larger. I'm not saying it's not happening - it's just hard to see when the population is small.

Quote:
[i]Originally posted by TauAlumna[i]
Isn't that what happens when a school has a large any minority population? Especially when certain groups tend to "stick with their 'own kind'" (I know I sound a little racist like this, but it's true.....)
To some extent yes - but it still gets annoying and is very wrong. Especially when its in a work setting. I've overheard people say outright that they won't hire "them" - which is absolutely ridicoulous!!!

Unfortunately - it is true that a large portion of the Chinese community likes to stick together (this is natural - if we were to meet Canadians overseas we'll stick together with them). I think sometimes it allows people to isolate them unneccessarly because "they don't want to be around people like me".

During our school elections last year one of the candidates want to start breaking down these barriers (Waterloo is horrible for cultural cliques). Some of this ideas were very interesting, but he didn't win.

ETA: Sorry, I'll stop hijacking this thread now


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