im glad i read this b/c i know of brothers who have quit b/c of religion and bruhs who are talking to their minister whomever about the frat. I myself don't have any issues but understanding or getting to know the facts more is great from a NEO :)

Your beloved church sounds highly disrespectful and I take offense.

UH...................ok

Clearly, I don't give a rip what your take offense to.

No I do not.

Re: Re: Re: Re: GOD and orgs
 

Right!!!!

That was never my intention. I was interested at one point before finding out all that I did. I just happened to see the thread and thought I would answer the question.

I know.

It is one thing to have a discussion, its another to be disrespectful. You are very disrespectful to people's faith and beliefs. That is the road you choose to travel, knock yourself out. I wouldnt do it, but hey that's me.

**SMH leaving this thread

Not disrespectful to people's beliefs I am disrespectful to people. :cool:

That explains a lot about you. Not that your post hadn't done so before, but seeing your admission to this is quite honestly very comforting on one level and very disturbing on another.

But that is a discussion for another time.

It's only right that you'd be 'very disturbed' as you are one the people I have the least amount of respect for on here. No futher discussion is necessary.
:cool:

I love you too, baby.

I'll be home about 8 and we can talk about it at that time.

Until then....(you know the rest) :cool:

Did you really read what SKEEphistAKAte posted? How was she being disrepectful in what she said?

*SMH*

I think people have suffieciently covered this but I don't want it to be said that I ignored your question SO... I think it is very foolish to join anything that you are not knowlegeable about. I understand that outsiders do not know EVERYTHING, but who is saying they should? I agree with the comment about if an org is based on Christian principles, why is it necessary to be a member to know what those principles are? That is not necessarily secret, the member said the org was based on Christian principles. So if someone observes the org doing things that are not Christ like (as stated in the Bible) then are they judging or are the correcting? Judgment is being thrown around a lot on this thread and personally, I don't feel that I've judged anyone. I have damned anyone to hell for their decisions and I don't see where anyone else has, but yet people are saying they are being judged... why whom?
If you go into a job interview, the person interviewing you expects you to have some knowledge of not only what the company does and the position you are applying for but the company values and goals as well. That is where research comes in. You don't necessarily have to be in something to fully understand it either. Some people are blessed with a gift called empathy... I can usually place myself in someone's shoes and while I may not know exactly how he/she feels, I can come fairly close.
The Bible also says man judges the outward appearance while God judges the heart. With that said, one could argue that from observation (because we are human after) of behaviors and attitude of a group, a decision on whether or not the person is interested can be formed.
As far as asking questions... okay, umm, you can ask, but that doesn't mean you will get an answer (or an acceptable one anyway). If some asks a question and you say the answer is for members only, then you have not answered the question. Now that may or may not be the appropriate answer but the person who asked the question has no greater knowledge than they had before the question was asked. Now I pose a question to you... how would you respond to an interestee who did not know the values, goals, principles of your org but was adamant about joining?

First off, the church comment was wrong, not only to me, but as other people have said it is offensive. And whoever said let the real church say "Amen" What is your definition of a real church? Is it one in which everyone is accepted and no one is ever corrected? Is it one in which everyone minds their own business while the person next to them is going to hell because no one cares enough to help minister them out of sin? Oh no, I bet its one in which the church gives out tons of money to the community, preaches prosperity, that everyone will get into heaven and that fornication is okay as long as you are in loooooove.
Anyway back to this statement. There are many churches out there that are corrupt and when the corruption is exposed they generally fall. Personally, I have not been to a church that has had this problem, BUT I will say this... If I join a church and I notice the pastor coming out the store with a bunch of 40s in his hand, the first lady having sex with every other man in the church, a homosexual deacon and an organist who wasn't even saved, I would leave in a heartbeat. I love my church but I love God more. I am not going to let someone who cannot lead themselves to salvation, help guide my mission.

And why is it that people avoid issues by pointing the finger elsewhere? What is the point of saying that the church has the same issues? Does that divert from the things already mentioned on this thread about scripture in relation to BGLOs? I am to apply my thinking to the church and do what with it?

For the sake of argument, I will go with your statement that it does not change the foundation in Christianity and I will reply with this: Matthew 5:13 states "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. " What this tells me is that just because something starts out in Christianity doesn't mean it remains so. If it loses those Christian principles that it so proudly claims... what good is it for the Kingdom? So now since you commented that it doesn't change the foundations, the question becomes are the principles still valued?

ETA: My last question is in no way meant to be offensive, but since it was brought up, I'd figured I'd ask.

ETA2: The last question is a simple yes or no

Because for one, the church was not an issue. I really read what she said and to me it is an attempt to attack something that she feels I how dearly (beloved) just as she holds her org dearly. It's understandable though because as I said earlier when we point a finger somewhere else, we point 3 at ourselves.

But then you want someone to be respect towards you? Does humility apply only to those who seek to get what someone else has? For me, I know this is not about me as a person (even though you have tried personal attacks), because we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

If a member says an organization is based on Christian principles, I feel that that is enough information for you to decide whether or not you would consider joining. (Assuming all else is equal) If a member cannot confirm or deny Christian principles then, if you feel uncomfortable with this, this should also be enough for you to decide.

Many groups will not confirm or deny but will say "Hey, it's ok to be Christian and ZYX, I am and I don't have any issues" or even " We have women/men of all faiths and our ritual does not interfere with it" etc. If you can't trust someone that you could be calling brother or sister, you shouldn't call them brother or sister.

There's a difference between correcting a specific issue and making broad statements about the Christianity of GLOs in general and some in particular.


Yes, but that lack of an answer should allow you to make a decision. Same with an unsatisfactory answer (Uh no, actually our GLO requires a long oath to Satan and a vow to commit ritual suicide on 6/6/06) If you can't trust someone when they say "I'm Christian and a member and I find no conflict between the two" then you shouldn't want to call them a brother or sister.

<-NPC member here... it works a bit differently
Most of our members join without having complete knowledge of our values and goals but learn them as they go. They certainly don't know our ritual.

Even if my ritual was practically a church service, my GLOs mission statement may only say "Turning yesterdays girls, into todays women so they can be leaders for tomorrow" or something as generic as that. You would have no idea, and I couldn't tell you anything different.

/that's such a cheesy mission statement.

Because you didn't like it doesn't mean it was "wrong".

First off, the church comment was wrong, not only to me, but as other people have said it is offensive. And whoever said let the real church say "Amen" What is your definition of a real church? Is it one in which everyone is accepted and no one is ever corrected? Is it one in which everyone minds their own business while the person next to them is going to hell because no one cares enough to help minister them out of sin? Oh no, I bet its one in which the church gives out tons of money to the community, preaches prosperity, that everyone will get into heaven and that fornication is okay as long as you are in loooooove.

I know that many of you bible thumpers have a "holier than thou" attitude, but this is the first time I've heard the "my church is better than your sinful church" argument. :rolleyes:

What is the point of saying that the church has the same issues? Does that divert from the things already mentioned on this thread about scripture in relation to BGLOs? I am to apply my thinking to the church and do what with it?

For the slow, the point is that YOU are the one pointing fingers saying that the Greek system is bad and against the bible basically because of hazing. I was suggesting that you put in a little effort and see the correlation of how people in churches also do things that make the religion look bad but somehow that must be ok with you. Yeah, diverting attention= pretending that you didn't understand a simple correlation.

For the sake of argument, I will go with your statement that it does not change the foundation in Christianity and I will reply with this: Matthew 5:13 states "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. " What this tells me is that just because something starts out in Christianity doesn't mean it remains so. If it loses those Christian principles that it so proudly claims... what good is it for the Kingdom? So now since you commented that it doesn't change the foundations, the question becomes are the principles still valued?

Once again, apply those same arguments to your beloved and cherished church who I'm sure has somebody doing something against the bible as a member. And ask yourself your last question.

If I wanted to attack you I would have said "apply those same principles to your ignorant, hypocritical *ssed church." I don't mince words.

That's the difference in me and you people. I couldn't care less how you feel about me. This is the internet. I know that some of you haven't notice. You can quote scriptures all day and it will make no difference to any of my sorors or other fellow greeks who are handling business in their respective communities while serving god at the same time. And I think it is obvious that I am humble to people I respect on here, and SKEE is not trying to get anything from anybody. (I have my pearls and everything else I want.) The rest of you people are booty. That. Is. All.

You know what, the "real" church are those people who walk by the WORD and NOT argue and attempt to BEAT DOWN scriptures into someone's head regarding an issue! The word says to plant a seed, once that seed has been planted, someone else will come in a water it, there will be a harvest and GOD will get the glory! If nobody here is responding positively to your posts and/or this thread, maybe because it the method used! However, again, I say...let the "real" church say amen because they are the ones who know that they are living the life that God has set before them, they are the ones who are walking in the blessing, they are the ones who are walking uprightly, they are the ones who are walking in the veracity of God's Word, they are the ones who are a TRUE reflection of God, they are the ones who know when to leave well enough alone, they are the ones who are feeding the hungry, helping the sick, etc., they are the ones who aren't quick to point fingers to say doing that is wrong and this is right...

Come on now, you say you are a Christian and that you Love God more than you love sin, but do you realize that when you are JUDGE someone and their organization, you are doing just that - SINNING!

Re: Psychological Issues
 

How can you make a statement that BGLO's haven't done anything for the black community but cause more damage? What about the services and the work that they do in the very community that you have said they have damaged. Every organization, greek affliated or not, has the potential to induct members who aren't Christian, who aren't doing the "right thing", companies hire people who don't reflect their mission or morals, yet they strive, yet they still do the things that they originally set out to do. So I take offense by your comment that "GREEKDOM" is looked as something that has hindered society when in fact it hasn't...it is and it will remain to be a help for people, it will continue to strive forth and render SERVICE TO ALL MANKIND (no matter what you or anyone else thinks about it).

PS...What are you doing to help out the "black" community?

One may say that by you making the claim as to who is or isn't the "real church" means that you yourself are judging others - which isn't that the exact same thing you accuse Strongbeauty of doing? :confused:

The "real church" most definitely does include what you've posted above, but it also includes accountability which is what you're confusing with "final judgement/condemnation". You can't leave that part out because it makes you uncomfortable, is concerning something that you want or if won't win you the approval the friends.

If you recall as a Christian, we are accountable to one another, which includes not causing others to stumble as well as to help other believers along their walk, which sometimes does include pointing out the sin in their lives ( Luke 17:1-4, Rom 14:19, Proverbs 27:17 - “Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens his friend's countenance.” ). (There is so much scripture concerning this that I don't have the time to post it all while I'm at work.)

By doing this that DOES NOT mean that you are somehow better or holier than the other person (because please believe it will happen to you). The intent is out of care and concern, not condemnation and I firmly believe this is the case for most believers who are both "doers" and "hearer's" of the Word.

We are definitely our brother's keeper.

ETA: dag on typos...

But seriously Strongbeauty, NewBee and anyone else could have came in here walking on pillows and speaking gently as a baby's whisper but the minute they answered the OP's question citing their religious reason, they would have received the same reception. People SAY they want honesty, but do they really?

Getting A Grip
 

I would like to cosign what Nupe For Life said, I've been a member
of OES for a very long time and there have been alot of people who have ask me is Masonic/OES Satanic? and more or less i had to educate them on the foundation of the orgs. I think its all about
perception and educating ones mind on the history of the BGLOS and Masonry/OES and for the record, my minister is an Omega and his wife is a Delta.;)

My Rant -- Not targeted to anyone...
 

The problem that I have with the resurrection of this thread is that it has strayed far from the OP's question. All anyone has to do is answer the question and keep it moving. However, when blanket statements are made about a group of people, which includes me, people are going to take offense. I didn't bother to get heavily involved in the debabte because I saw no use. Everyone will believe, do and say what they want to do in the end.

The bottom line is that I appreciate the opinions of those that tell why they chose not to join GLOs. Congratulations. However, you DO NOT speak for ALL Christians. That's the way YOU see it. Whomever does not feel that Greek life is for them: DO NOT JOIN. Period. Point blank. However, no HUMAN is in the position to tell another whether their soul is in jeopardy, condemned to Hell, or any of the other statements that were made. NO ONE knows another's walk with the Lord. NO ONE knows your soul except the Lord. NO ONE can say anything about your faith. Not many of us know one another on this board past the four corners of our computer screens, so we can't judge what dwells in another's heart.

^^Very well said. completely agree

Re: My Rant -- Not targeted to anyone...
 

^^ This is why you're my favorite soror-twin :D With that, I'm done with this thread. :cool:

Hey wussup everybody? Im real new to this so I thought I would just kind of find somewhere to jump in...haha...Anyways I just wanted to give yall some input on what I think about the subject. I think that its totally cool to be "saved" and in a fraternity at the same time, because honestly being in an organization has nothing to do with your walk with Jesus Christ. So I think its totally necesary to be in an organization if you want to as long as its not hurting your walk with Jesus. For example Martin Luther King Jr. was an Alpha and he still was a pastor at a church too!! So thats proof right there. Aight well I'll holla back.

Coleman Maxwell
Men Of God christian fraternity Inc.
Fall of 05
Romans 12:2 line

Gettin krunk since 99'

MLK
 

It is totally cool to be saved and be in a greek org., but the problem occurs when you have to compromise your salvation in order to be in the org (particularly undergrad). For instance, Im sure MLK (the prince of non-violence) wasn't abused while trying to become an Alpha (unless you know otherwise please share). And I pray no one confessing to be Christian agrees that abuse in any form is Christ-like. But make sure you aren't comparing peoples lives as an example to live by. As Christians the bible tells us to model Jesus's life because men make mastakes and fall often (not to say the MLK being greek was his mastake). But again the bible does say not to be bound to unbelievers, and in Greek orgs. you are bound to anyone who is in that org. whether they be buddhist, athiest, or whatever. You can interpret it how you want to, which I am sure many people do, but in order to understand why there is this rift between greek life and religion people should know that.

Re: MLK
 

Who is compromising their salvation? Why does it have to be "particularly undergrads"? What are your statements based on? How do you know what MLK "process" was like and what makes you think that someone would reveal that to YOU?

Question to all those using the "Yoked to 'unbelievers'" as the basis for their "arguement": What would you do if you had a sibling who, through a phase of transition/self discovery/awakening/etc. decides that they would now like to be active practice Buddhism, Kaballah, Scientiology, etc.?

Re: Re: MLK
 

I'll bite. The definition for yoked is "to become joined securely." "To become" implies that you were not joined together in the past, that you did something to get in the present state of being joined together. So you are not yoked to your siblings, you did nothing to make a bond with them. Not to say a bond doesn't exist, the blood bond is perhaps one of the most powerful bonds that exist, however, you can't control who your blood sisters or brothers are. Where as with joining a glo or getting marriage, or however else you decided to tie yourself to someone, that is a choice on your part. A choice that everyone has to make for themselves...

Re: Re: Re: MLK
 

So WHY is this topic still being debated? :confused:

Re: Re: Re: Re: MLK
 

Basically. :rolleyes: Once again, people, do what you need to do. If it's wrong to you, then, don't do it. ;) If what you're doing is right, then keep on moving towards *what you believe is* the light. :cool:

enigma_AKA

Re: Using others to justify!
 

Is that what we're doing? :rolleyes:

enigma_AKA

But some of you asked those that didn't join a GLO due to their beliefs WHY - and they answered. The fact that "it's a person's choice" (which is true) flys BOTH WAYS - if you're Christian and perfectly happy in a GLO and if you are Christian didn't chose to join a GLO based on your beliefs.

Ironic...
 

This argument is EXTREMELY MOOT because we are talking about folks of Afrikan descent who claim to be Christ-ian not wanting to join BGLO's because these GREEK Fratern-ities and Soror-ities are now being called cults, are unequally yoked to "non believers", and are also "unsaved" from an image of a Christ being uplifted equally to God that was told to them by a Roman polythestic convert who lived 700 years after Christ's death and then from slave masters citing several scripture from the King James version of the "Holy Bible"...

Hmmmm interesting cultural asili here...

Everyone here thrives in hypocrisy. Are we ALL willing to admit it? I know I have no issues with my dualities, but that is because I am an Afrikan Centered entity only residing in this dimension at the speed of life... So much for The Universe... There is so much invocations and incantations here... Whoa... What are we trying to rebuke here, again? Remind me please...

It's not. You asked a new question and I answered your new question.

I wonder at the quotes on Holy Bible.:confused: But regardless of what version you quote, I personally read the NIV, the message is the same. How you apply it, or don't apply it to your life is a personal matter. The other stuff you were saying, well that's part fact, part your opinion. Let's just agree to disagree. Be blessed.

THANK YOU