Thanks for letting me know I wasn't stupid ;) I have read about that time in Alabama, I guess I just didn't realize it was still a hot issue there! Thanks :)

No offense Lisa, but it wasn't just during the 1960s and 1970s. As a former southerner, I can attest to how rigidly segregated greek life was when I was an undergraduate (in the late 1980s I was kept out of NPC because of my race), and at UGA when the whole AGD scandal broke (and that was just a few years ago, if memory serves). And let's not forget about the whole Melody Twilley thing from a couple of years ago.

I'm really glad this happened at Alabama, and I hope other major SEC/ACC schools follow suit. But to suggest that this kind of segregation is a thing of the past is a bit of an ahistorical perspective, IMO.

Thanks for pointing this out, 33girl! Actually, that's a huge beef with some of the discussions I've seen on GC too. Those terms are used here entirely too much as well.

Alabama has relased the New Member List!! Congratulations AOII on our 56 wonderful new members!!! Congratulations to everyone!


http://uanews.ua.edu/anews2003/aug03/pledges081903.htm

Congrats to DZ Alpha Gamma chapter on 56 new women! (If I counted correctly).

Congrats to all the chapters there! Looks like everyone got a lot of great girls!

Yay for Alabama's 57 new Alpha Gam Baby Squirrels! :D

I think I counted 57 for Alpha Gamma Delta. 56 or 57... red and buff roses to our Psi Chapter! Y'all rock!

i counted 55 or 56 for Phi Mu...congratulations ladies!

I just got baby news that I've been waiting for (VERY close friends, lots of pregnancy drama!), and I'm too excited to count!! I'm thrilled, whatever!!

Btw, what was quota?

Here's what I counted for everyone (give or take 1 for error ;) )
Alpha Chi Omega - 54
Alpha Delta Pi - 56
Alpha Gamma Delta - 57
Alpha Omicron Pi - 56
Chi Omega - 53
Delta Delta Delta - 57
Delta Zeta - 56
Gamma Phi Beta - 23
Kappa Alpha Theta - 57
Kappa Delta - 54
Kappa Kappa Gamma - 54
Phi Mu - 55
Pi Beta Phi - 57
Sigma Delta Tau - 6
Zeta Tau Alpha - 58

You can't tell I'm bored, can you?? Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong. My eyes were having a hard time reading it all!

Why is GPhiB so low? seems odd in comparison to the other numbers....

Not when you compare it to Sigma Delta Tau (no offense meant to any SDTs out there). As we've seen in the UGA thread and the issue surrounding DG, there are lots of different reasons why certain chapters have stellar years and why others have years where they don't recruit as many. *shrug*

Thank you, Heather!

Was quota about 54-55, and the higher numbers from quota plus?

Not to nitpick, but Alabama does not have Theta Phi Alpha and I believe that Sigma Delta Tau is actually the house y'all are thinking of. :)

Yeah, I'm a big dork and wrote Theta Phi Alpha instead of Sigma Delta Tau. Do they look alike? noooo :o
Sorry!!
I'm not sure what quota was! Anyone?

Thank y'all for counting!! I was afraid I was going to have to wait 2 weeks until I got my new glasses, lol .

heather, you win a prize for all of that counting!!! i counted phi mus but there was NOOOOOOO way that i could count everyone's! btw, i am totally bummed for sdt. i know what it feels like to have so few nm's in comparison to the other chapters. best of luck to them!

Because we are "new" to the campus compared to some other houses...and some other Alabama political issues that don't need to be gone into. :p I also read in the paper that we actually had 29 new members, but maybe some dropped because we like being racially diverse?? :confused:

If a girl dropped my GLO because we choose to be racially diverse, she'd be doing us a favor because I wouldn't want her as my sister anyway. :D

My thoughts exactly! I have complete faith that our EL chapter will be at total within the next 10 years. Everything I have heard about them proves that they are awesome women.

Makes perfect sense...the new to campus part anyway.

Actually I believe our Bama chapter snap bid 7 more ladies for a total of 30. And yes there are many issues to deal with when a chapter is in a situation like this...personally it makes me very sad, esp when comments from folks who read the local news article about Carla Ferguson said mean things like, "well if it had to happen at least it was at the worst sorority on campus..."

Actually that not only makes me sad, but it makes me VERY angry too!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I think I just may start a new thread seeking ideas -- guess this forum is a good place to post it....

KD 1904
ADPi 1907
Zeta 1910
Tri Delta 1914
AGD 1921
XO 1922
DZ 1922
AXO 1924
Kappa 1927
Phi Mu 1931
SDT 1935
Pi Phi 1949
AOPi 1967
Theta 1967
G Phi B 1988

THANK YOU! Amen sister! http://www.superbabies.homestead.com/files/claps.gif What she said! :D

There are 2 ways to respond to idiots who say crap like that!
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/.../kissmyass.gif

and

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/...s/up_yours.gif

A derth of non-Southerners.
 

Wow. Out of all those Auburn girls, I counted only 4 from IL, 2 from PA and MD, one from IN, and one from MA.

So, so true!

And now that I've read the rest of the thread...
 

Wow.

Just "wow."

Wow to Miss Ferguson for seeking sisterhood in its truest form: the blindness of love. :D

Wow to the responses in the Crimson Tide, especially the negative comments regarding two of the smaller groups. :rolleyes:

Wow to members of those groups for keeping their heads up when others around them are being immature you-know-whats. :cool:

Wow to the archaic racism. :eek:

Oh, and what thing with DG at UGA?

Kudos to Gamma Phi Beta and to Carla for having the character to follow their ideals in a place that seems to be a little stuck in the past. How awesome to be a part of such a special group that is simply moving forward with bravery in the midst of a community that appears to be somewhat paralyzed by fear. Now that is leadership!!!

DIMPLES = always smiling, always upbeat, happy (you see dimples when someone is smiling)!!

I am so tired of people bashing something they do not understand!

Everyone on here talks about Southern girls/sororities need to be more diverse, more open minded and YOU do not even try to understand... It is not what YOU believe, so it is automatically wrong/bad and everyone that is part of that system needs to be bashed or corrected? The most interesting part of these comments to me.. as a TRUE southern girl might think you are wrong, or not like your opinions, but she would never make fun of you in public; as a matter-of fact she would be very polite to you!!!!!!!!!

What is a "true Southern girl"? I mean, I was born in Georgia - you can't get much more southern than that! :D What is there not to believe? Are we supposed to accept segregation -- even benign segregation -- just because it's tradition?

I'm not sure what you're saying, Angels&Arrows.

I know what I am trying to say.. I just reread what I wrote and I still understand.. I just must not be communicating it very well.

I am not saying you should accept segregation... However, I do not think it makes you (not specifically you), any better than these chapters and sisters you are putting down. You are trying to force what you believe on them... "It is about time that a traditionally white sorority at 'Bama pledged a minority... don't they know their Northern Sisters have been intergrated for years!" I would never dream of walking into someone else's chapter and TELLING them they need to pick a PNM based on her color, personality, religion, etc.

To me it is one thing to state our opinions, it is another thing to put a system or something down that you have never been a part-of or have no first hand knowledge of.

I still might not be communicating very well... who knows, I am still getting adjusted to the overnights...

But to me, this is one of those things that hurts the whole system. One of the many critiques agains the Greek system (among those that we haze, drink too much, have promiscuous sex, are elitist, are snotty, are spoiled brats . . . etc.) is that we are racist, keep girls out of our sororities because of their race, and foster segregation. We like to say those accusations are false, but every time they turn out to be true it makes us look liars, destroys our credibility and works to ruin the good things we've worked hard to accomplish. How can I honestly tell people that the Greek system is NOT racist when things like this make it blatantly clear that sometimes it is?

We Greeks often wonder why, after all the philanthropy and sisterhood/brotherhood and leadership opportunities and successful alumni, we STILL have an image problem. Here, in black and white (no pun intended), is one of the reasons why.

A&A, I totally understand what you are saying. This same debate takes place with different subject matter constantly on GC.

Take any sorority or fraternity for that matter, and if they have any "ideal" member in mind that differs from a liberal view, then many deem them to be archaic, closed minded or flat out WRONG.

Insert these words- African American, Homosexual, Jewish/Catholic, Witch (yes, remember the thread), tattooed/pierced, ...on and on. There will ALWAYS be people AND chapters to champion the cause of opening membership to any of the above. Yet, it's ALWAYS pointed at traditionally white sororities. I'd like to see some of us try to go into the BGLO forums and say these same things.

It ISN'T anyone's business how any one chapter selects it's membership.

I agree, a TRUE Southern Lady would never openly make fun of anyone in public. So, that Ashleigh girl is a scuz bucket.

Understanding the situation and supporting integration is one thing. FORCING the selection of ANY PNM for PC reasons is disturbing. So, you want to force a young, innocent girl into one of the "Old Row" sororities, want to make some 18 year old the sacrificial lamb? All for what YOU (universal) believe? We are a very young nation and even though it seems to take a long time, change NEEDS time or else the foundation the change was built on is weak and may collapse. This is the beginning, but don't expect a domino effect. It will take TIME for the other sororities to access the fallout----mixers----recruitment---campus image and standing, before another step occurs. AND, you may as well face the fact that in actuality, they don't give one care about what others think. They are happy with the status quo and will most likely fight tooth and nail to keep it that way. When ENOUGH members see the benefits of expanding their selection process to include more diversity, THAT will be the point of change... Unless some schizer gets it in his mind to make the case for ending the selection process surrounding Greek Life and opening membership to anyone. Is that what everyone wants???

Um, maybe it's because many (notice I didn't say ALL) of the traditionally white greek letter societies had discriminatory clauses until the 1960s, and some fought tooth and nail against their removal. Some of the elite universities chose to remove all Greek societies rather than have ANY with discriminatory clauses. The nine member groups of the NPHC did not, and do not, have such clauses. So, naturally--the BGLOs aren't the natural targets for such criticism. We are, and with historically good reason. I've seen many more diverse (racially, religiously, socioeconomically, family structure, hell--even piercings) NPHC chapters than I've seen NPC chapters. I'm very proud to be a member of my sorority, but to say that we're justified in any discriminatory behavior that violates the Civil Rights Act is damned ignorant.

As someone who DOES have first-hand knowledge of some of the Greek systems most discussed on GC, I feel I can say that they are ANTIQUATED. Whatever happened to going to college for an education--not to rush or to get your MRS? :rolleyes:

Thank you JAM... Very well said...

I might have to start emailing you my opinions, so you may help me communicate them better!!!!:p My grammer is horrible... Everyone who has ever known me personally has said I should have been a trail attorney... However, I could never write the briefs!!! So, I stick with Nursing... Very hands on and verbal communication!!! The only writing is short and sweet medical jargon!!!!!!!!!

I went to college and received a BS ( I am now working on my MSN), bridesmaid's/life long sisters/friends and my MRS!!!!! All things are possible!!!!!!!!!

edited to add: These antiquated Greek systems have been going strong since the early 1800's!

Wow, this thread has.... escalated....

A few thoughts:

I come from a very southern, very, very, very, very, very white school. We have few minorities. We have never had trouble placing African-Americans (or Asian Americans, Jewish women, etc) in rush. I suspect this is for a few reasons: our Panhellenic was only founded in 1989 (coeducation began in 1985) and we have no NPHC chapters. While the majority of African American women do not rush, and sometimes only 1 goes through recruitment, there is actually usually competition over who will get that woman--because everyone wants their group to be diverse. All the groups except one (to my knowledge) currently have at least one African-American member. Most of them have Asian-American members, also. If you looked at the groups, however, with the exception of maybe mine, you wouldn't see a lot of diversity. We try, but because so few "diverse" women rush (or even go to our school), it's hard to be genuinely diverse the way some sororities are.

I think what is getting lost in the issue is--if African-American women don't go through recruitment, they can't be pledged. Suppose next year at Alabama 200 African-American women sign up for Panhellenic recruitment. Do you think that none of the Old Row chapters would take an African American woman? I doubt it. My guess is that most of the really qualified African-American PNMs at Alabama are PNMs for the NPHC groups--which is fine, those groups have a lot to offer women and have rich histories. We're always saying that PNMs should find their home and 'fit'. My guess is that the new African-American Gamma Phi Beta member fit there a lot better than the "Old Row" houses. I hate to be blantantly honest, but at my school, the rich, snotty African American girls went to the rich, snotty sorority. The down-to-earth African American girls went to the down-to-earth sorority. Maybe I'm just idealistic and that wouldn't happen at Alabama, but I don't know.

Additionally, I think that JAM's point about the NPHC groups is that they refuse to discuss their membership selection on GC because they view it as private. And, frankly, I know that some southern NPHC groups are quite elite--some of the African American girls on my campus wouldn't have a shot at getting into NPHC groups on certain campuses. They, too, make judgement calls that hurt PNMs. I worked with a girl this summer who had had a frustrating experience with NPHC intake--she goes to a well-known campus, and basically, her money wasn't old enough for the group (she's hoping to AI). That this type of situation happens is corroborated by many of my African-American friends. NPHC is great, but all Greeks sometimes make membership decisions over shallow reasons. We all have room for improvement.

Another thing--as JAM pointed out, we use other membership qualifications. I know that my chapter (or any chapter at my school) probably would not take a PNM whose body was covered in tattoos and piercings, or who had slept with all the men in any one fraternity. Now, some of you may be saying, "Well, gosh, that's horrible of them not to take the tattooed girl. These are things that are gaining acceptance in society!" I know--this has come up on GC MANY times--that one of the big issues for many chapters is whether or not to eliminate PNMs who have questionable morals or who are "skanks". Most of us probably want to say it's important for our reputation that we are not viewed as loose women. But, in reality, what do either of these characteristics, tattoos or hookups, that have to do with being a good sister? One of the sisters that has been there for me the most is a woman who doesn't necessarily have the best campus reputation. I know that she will listen to me when no one else will, that she will pick me up when I fall. But I know people made fun of our chapter for taking her. In reality, none of these outward characteristics (tattoos, race, religion, sexual morals) determine who will make a good sister. Yet, to differing degrees, we use them to determine who our sisters will be. Even GPA and class standing do not determine someone's sisterhood potential, yet to my knowledge EVERY NPC uses those--oftentimes to the detriment of some of our beloved GC PNMs who've had a bad semester or who just decided to rush later than most! Almost no one will defend using race or religion as a category anymore, and with good reason. Don't be the pot that calls the kettle black--we all have to make membership decisions, and I'm sure many of our chapters have cut women for shallow reasons. At the same time, we should ALL work to better our membership selection and look at PNMs for their inner character--dedication, loyalty, and all the values of our respective sororities. Remember that it is a very fine line between being an ELITIST organization and being a SELECTIVE organization. Obviously we all have things to learn--some groups just have a lot farther to go.

I feel for both sides of the discussion--racism is inexcusable but unfortunately it can easily be incorporated (along with a lot of other --isms and prejudices) into our secret membership selection process. At the same time, it really is very, very difficult to understand the campus climate unless you have experienced it yourself--I don't claim to understand Alabama, but I do understand the southern elitism of my college--and to *automatically* call the "Old Row" women racist, elitist, shallow, and pathetic is perhaps a little too persumptous without having talked to them or been through their membership selection (which perhaps some of you have).

That said, I wonder what some constructive ways are to encourage groups to diversify their membership. Do any nationals have awards for diverse chapters or chapters that make efforts to diversify their membership? I mean, the solution isn't to just shut down these chapters!

Sorry for the length--this is something I think about a *LOT*!