I totally agree that there are kids on the north shore that are constantly bailed out of trouble and have no sense of responsibility. But what I'm saying is that even with those kids, who have lived there since before I was born, this has never ever happened. These are not a few snobby kids who went over the line. They're sadistic sick people who need professional help and a few statistics for their permanent record.

The school officials could have prevented this type of behavior. They could have said to the students that if this hazing occurs, they will be suspended, cannot attend the prom or any extracurricular activity, and their parents will be called. That would have shown these students that their actions have consequences. Now the consequences will involve a criminal investigation and possibly a record that will follow them around for the rest of their lives. Not to mention the public humiliation that the school has suffered.

Are you serious????
I'm sorry but there is a TOTAL difference between having paint and honey rubbed around in your hair, and being made to eat human feces.
I am SO glad I never got involved in it..
This year was malicious, in the past its all been in good fun. The girls know what they're getting into- this year they were caught totally off guard by some sickos that made things go out of control.

I see now...
 

All your posts make a lot of sense now that I see this:

AXJRules wrote:
From the looks of this comment, it seems that you were an actual participant in "your day."

Even if the location was selected at the last minute, where was the school district safety patrol? Don't they cruise up and down the streets all day looking for trouble? You said that the teachers told the dean what day it would be on. Why isn't there heightened patrol or security on that day? To me, this looks like a school that is scared of busting the kids of "influential parents."

Edited to say: Okay, now that I see your next post, you say you are "SO glad you were never involved in it." So why did you mention that you would email and call each other's cell phones before it happened? And what about how "You'd have to be God to know where we were going to do it." What were those comments about? Or did you mean "THEY"..."THEY would call each other's cell phones..."??????? :confused:

Sorry for the sarcasm. But if you never went to a hazing-free h.s., how can you know if the experience can be good or not? You can argue of course equally that I cannot know what I am missing out on. That doesn't give you the right to assume my experience sucked. I don't assume yours did.

For the record, my high school had about 1600 students at the time. I was involved in, let me count ... almost a dozen high school clubs.

The thing is, no one has ever complained (at least in the past 8 years). So if they know we're spreading food on each other and everyone does it willingly, how can they threaten to expel or keep you from prom/graduation?????????
There are too many parents that are lawyers to get away with that. It all has to do with the honor code we sign. They can't control what you do thats not on school property.

Re: I see now...
 

Well Northbrook is a pretty big area with a lot of forest, people's backyards are huge, etc. Seriously if you walk for 10 minutes, go behind the railroad tracks, take the back way into a huge forest preserve, they'd never know. After 20 years we figured it out...and they came last year, saw that everyone was just having a food fight, and told them to clean it up and leave.
And no I didn't participate, completely. No one wanted to kick my ass my junior year. My senior year I really wanted to do it b/c we swore that there wouldn't be any paddles/fighting, but I couldn't b/c of the rules. Instead I helped bring all the stuff to the house where the kegger was, and took a couple girls home to take showers and stuff. I was there, I witnessed it, but I did not participate.

I was relaying what I saw on national television, said by two juniors that were hazed. And I didn't make that up.


I wouldn't get up and walk away. I would try my best to get up and kick the living sh*t outta those bitches. End of story. I don't care what was dumped on me. My adrenaline would be going. But I guess another person might not do the same. *shrugs* Everyone is different.

Oh wait, I forgot!

You guys know what's "best"... I bow down to you the knowledge and right ones!

Whoa, whoa, whoa.....no one said we "know what's best." I think that everyone is speaking theoretically from their own personal views, plus from the fact that the ins & outs of hazing have been drilled into us from day 1 of pledging a Greek house.

Is the honor code a school thing or is it among these girls? If it is a school honor code, that cannot prevent students from being held accountable for their bad behavior.

A school can control what occurs off campus. If no one complained about it in the past and the school is unaware, then they can't prevent it. If a school knows that this occurs annually, they have an opportunity and a responsibility to speak out against it. If they were aware, they could have established a policy against hazing.

You mention that the parents are lawyers. Those students should have known better. Schools have a right and a responsibility to establish a policy regarding the conduct of its students both off and on campus. As I mentioned earlier, if a student drinks alcohol or uses drugs on or off campus, the school has a right to suspend or expel that student. This hazing ritual is no different to me.

I don't know this neighborhood or this school. I have gleaned from other posts that this is a rich neighborhood. I went to small private school with some students who have rich parents. If anyone behaved even remotely like this, they would be out. Students were suspended for wearing something outside of the dress code. The school didn't put up with this behavior. I guess that is the difference between private and public schools.

You asked
The answer is by establishing rules of conduct. The problem is that by not addressing and condemning the hazing, the school is condoning it. Regardless of whether or not the participants did so willingly, the school ought to have established an anti-hazing policy if they knew about this event. The fear of a parent filing a lawsuit should not stop a school from punishing a student who breaks a rule.

Would you really, if there were about 15 girls AND guys standing above you waiting for you to escape???? No offense but if they are standing there with bats, blood, and who knows what else and you're seeing them KICK people, you are defniitely a stronger person than I am.

Hmph! Well y'all certainly act like you are the best thing God ever created... but what do I know i'm just an "ignorant southerner" who was raised "without any value for life or the dollar"... and my parents can bail me out of any sitution because they are a lawyer and a big businessman... riiiiiiiight, if I got carted off to jail i'd most likely be there for a long time. My parents wouldn't be bailing me out! I just want y'all to understand... It has NOTHING to do with money... I don't understand why its such a difficult concept to grasp. As AX said... If it happened in a less well to do area would it be such a big deal????? would it be on the today show?? would they be talking to matt lauer?? sadly not...

You can't make rules for off campus behavior, besides drugs and alcohol. We have an anti hazing policy for our athletes. This wasn't affiliated with athletics, it was just something peers did to each other. The code of conduct is a school written thing.....but in all the past years if girls say "Hey I want to play powderpuff! And they willingly pay $$ to do it and no one gets upset each year, how are you going to write rules around that???? Legally, they did nothing wrong, thats my point. They're not afraid of pissing off lawyer parents, they know that the school has no jurisdiction among making rules for things people do willingly.

You can't say this has happened every year. It hasn't.

From the Chicago Sun-Times:


From Saskatchewan to suburban London, the story of hazing at a high school in a Chicago suburb has passed into the world's consciousness through TV, radio and print.

CNN and the BBC are on the story, with CNN's Paula Zahn devoting a segment to it Wednesday night. "The O'Reilly Factor" and Oprah want a piece. "Inside Edition" is hunting down guests.

The videotaped beatings of a group of Glenbrook North High School girls at the hands of seniors in a "powderpuff football" game have flashed across cable channels and network newscasts.

The school's semi-secret rite of passage has suddenly become a flashpoint for discussion of teen cruelty.

The video, taken Sunday at the Chipilly Woods near the Northbrook school, shows a group of girls, all juniors, huddled in a circle. They cower against blows from senior girls who endured similar treatment last spring. One or two flee, only to be tracked down and beaten. A bat is swung. A can. Punches are thrown.

All of this happens while a crowd of teens watches from the sidelines.

In the days since, the girls have come forward, some limping, with bruises and broken bones. Details of the hazing tradition--its "rules," the form girls are expected to sign, the understanding that violence is involved--have trickled out.

On Wednesday, the Cook County Forest Preserve police said they will bring charges by the end of the week.

Meanwhile, the world is joining the Chicago area in asking: How could girls from well-heeled suburbs turn into attackers?

And why did the Glenbrook North girls submit themselves to such cruelty, even if they didn't realize powderpuff football could turn so violent?

Principal Mike Riggle said Wednesday he has made it a point to be "open with our stance on this, instead of rejecting interviews. I think that has probably caused us to be more exposed."

Any punishments, he said, would be "possible actions on students through extracurricular activities," such as barring them from sports or club games.

Whether students are punished, Riggle said, damage has been done to the school.

"We were a school that enjoyed a great reputation," he said, "and I think it's been tarnished."

Students feel it, too. "I think it's awful," said senior Jamie Glickstein. "Now, everyone's going to look at our school and think of this."

Participants explained the game along these lines: Enduring such ordeals creates a bond and gives status to those who survive.

"That's the apology given, anyway," said Bernard Beck, a Northwestern University sociologist. "Once you have that, you're given essentially a legitimate justification for being cruel, almost to the point where you're required to be cruel, even if you didn't want to be."

There are people willing to endure fear to feel part of a dominant group. "It's a ritualized way to mark a rite of passage," said Bradley Pechter, a psychiatrist at Northwestern.


There are people willing to endure fear to feel part of a dominant group. "It's a ritualized way to mark a rite of passage," said Bradley Pechter, a psychiatrist at Northwestern. Re-read this. Again. "To feel part of a dominant group." Really? Remember, these seniors that abused the juniors will be GONE in a week. Why bother?

I agree. I don't know what I would have done. These girls are 16 or 17. They arrived thinking that they will have honey and shaving cream poured on them for a few minutes. Suddenly, it escalated into a very violent attack with people kicking, throwing feces and urine, and swinging bats. It must have been really terrifying and physically painful for them. Some of the girls who tried to get away suffered a broken ankle and needed stitches. From what I have seen of the videotape, it looked like there was no way for them to escape without suffering injuries.

Beating with a baseball bat is not illegal? Forced consumption of human waste? Plastic bins thrown on people?

You took it out of context. Legally, willingly playing powderpuff all the other years cannot get you kicked out of school. I wrote this in response to people saying they could have made rules earlier. Legally you cannot prohibit someone from playing a "game" willingly.

This year is totally different, its a criminal activity.

Observation
 

..to keep this Greek-related.

Anytime someone thinks that the NPC, NPHC, and NIC have "gone too far" in their anti-hazing rules need only read some of the responses on this thread to understand WHY such restrictions are necessary today. Even in the 21st century, some teenagers will justify cruelty. Notice the relativistic "it wasn't as bad as....." justification.

Ladies and Gents, if this is the next generation coming into GLOs, the governing bodies will have a lot to deal with for years to come.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

(edited for spelling errors)

"There are people willing to endure fear to feel part of a dominant group. "It's a ritualized way to mark a rite of passage," said Bradley Pechter, a psychiatrist at Northwestern. "To feel part of a dominant group." Really? Remember, these seniors that abused the juniors will be GONE in a week. Why bother?"

My sentiments exactly. For those who didn't show up for the violence, who hazes them. The seniors have graduated and I would hope have more important things on their mind than to waste time trying to kick the people's butts who didn't show up.

Do the juniors haze the other juniors who didn't show up?

No, if you don't show up then the girl that challenged you or whoever kinda tracks you down over the next couple of weeks and things are settled. Sometimes they talk it out, sometiems they fight. In all honesty, I can only think of 4 or 5 girls that didn't show up in the 4 years I was there.

You forget that when you graduate you don't leave for school the next day. You're there all summer, hanging out with the same people, attending all the huge parties. You have to run into these people for the next 3 months.

Personally, I think that if this had occurred at another school, say a very poor one, and it had been caught on tape, the stink would have been just as big. If it wasn't, no doubt somebody would be saying that would actually be unfair to the poorer kids - ignoring criminal behavior at their school just because they aren't rich? Don't we care about them too?

And if this story wasn't covered in the news, someone would be saying, "Their daddies covered it up because they're rich." Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what school this happened at or how it's received in the press.

But "what might ofs" don't get very far in helping us deal with "what dids." This story is on the news, fairly or not, and it's too late to take it back.

I think you WILL see students kicked out of school, or at least suspended, and not given the privilege of attending commencement at the very leasts.

The PR fallout from this is so condemning, they can't possibly do nothing, nor issue a slap on the wrist. This story is world-wide. The school, the principal most likely, and many seniors fate is sealed.

I see a LOT of legal problems coming the way of the participants AND the school. Especially the school. This is an "age-old tradition", as you seem to describe it, so it is ludicrous to assume the school was ignorant. The participants would wear shirts TO SCHOOL prior to the event. Another reason to conclude the school could not be aware.

Students SIGNED statements about participating - very very dumb. Another nail in the coffin. Just because you know ahead of the fact that violence will be a part is not a defense. That's like a bank robber who kills a teller in a robbery that the teller should have seen it coming, because bank robberies can be violent.

The trends here are so frighteningly similar to GLO hazing incidents that make the news. "It's been 'tradition.' We've always done it this way." "Just a couple of people got out of hand." "We never expected it to get so bad."

For anyone in any kind of social club - high school, GLO, whatever, who has the "it can't happen here mentality..." Look at the faces on the video. It CAN happen. Here. There. Everywhere. ESPECIALLY when this is an underground event, hidden from ANY kind of supervision, sanction, or oversight.

I haven't been this worked up over an issue in years.

AXJules - I'm not pointing any finger of blame in your general direction. In fact, based on my experiences in high school, any finger pointing would be best done in front of a mirror. But, this incident just goes to show how unexpectedly BAD an incident can become, regardless of "tradition" or "expectations."

Re: Observation
 

Adrienne, with all due respect, you are not yet a member of a GLO and you have not seen how far some of the hazing rules go. So don't say all the choices made have been right, because they haven't, and I've seen chapters suffer for it. I've seen chapters that are afraid to joke with their pledges or hang out with them for fear that something they will do will be misinterpreted. And as a result, sisterhood has gone down the tubes.

and anyhoo, I don't think we need to even bring up Greek life discussing this subject, until these hellions are off to college and their sorry butts get blackballed out of rush. (I'm addressing the girls who did this, not the whole school) I'm sure there are enough upstanding members in this generation to do so.

I do agree with the fact that a lot of the press is coming because this is an affluent school. **cough cough JonBenet cough cough**

I was under the impression that the school had problems with this before on a lesser scale. You're right. If students didn't complain, then the school didn't have a reason to establish a policy.

It's just unfortunate that this situation escalated into a melee where girls were injured. The fact that it is a national story might help prevent other events like this from happening in the future.

AXJules, thank you for your honesty and sharing your experience. It must be really hard to see your school receive this negative press. I hope that this is one of those experiences from which all of the people involved can grow stronger and better. :)

Let's look at this rationally.

This was not a school-sanctioned event. It didn't happen on school grounds, during school hours, and it had nothing to do with school activities. What is the school supposed to do? Obviously they knew when it was going to happen, if what AXJules is telling us is true. But so did the police, according to what she says. But nobody knew where it was supposed to take place. So how could the school have prevented it?

The school is telling us that it couldn't have stopped this because the second it admits that it had anything to do with it, they open themselves up to a flood of lawsuits. Which is -- in my opinion, at least -- ridiculous. Why should the school be held responsible? It had nothing to do with the school. It had to do with these kids, and they are the ones who should be punished.

Schools should not be responsible for punishing children for what they do outside of school. That should be up to the law. That's what it's there for.

Because of the way our code is written, I would highly highly doubt it if the school is held accountable. I would see a few lawsuits coming the way of the parents, and a ton at the 5 or 6 girls. Maybe this is just from the way things have been handled before, I dunno...a willingly played game off school property that is not illegal can't be banned from our high school.

Quote:

Students SIGNED statements about participating - very very dumb. Another nail in the coffin. Just because you know ahead of the fact that violence will be a part is not a defense. That's like a bank robber who kills a teller in a robbery that the teller should have seen it coming, because bank robberies can be violent.

I guess I don't understand how this is a nail in the coffin. The juniors are the one who sign a piece of paper saying they might get hurt and they know that.....the rules the seniors follow are unwritten and they usually don' t sign anything. If anything I would think this would hurt the cases of those who weren't injured, since their bodily results were expected.

Quote:

AXJules - I'm not pointing any finger of blame in your general direction. In fact, based on my experiences in high school, any finger pointing would be best done in front of a mirror. But, this incident just goes to show how unexpectedly BAD an incident can become, regardless of "tradition" or "expectations."

I appreciate that...I am really feeling the wrath of some people's attitudes on here. I chose to come on and explain what I could so that you're all more informed--this isn't easy for me to talk about either. Don't you think I knew half these people? Don't you think my friends little sisters were there? There was a reason my grade kept it alive, and that's b/c we were focused on keeping it fun. Obviously I think this year was despicable, but i think some of you are interpreting my posts as sticking up for the activity. I am not. I'm just trying to make you realize that you can't say the people who didn't stop it earlier are to blame when it was a
totally different thing.

One more thing-- I really am trying hard not to come off as though I'm arguing with everyone. But I was incredibly hurt by some of the attitudes and posts in this thread before I discovered it...and something tells me nothing would have changed unless I had posted.

Re: Re: Observation
 

You're right, I'm not a member, yet. A situation which is being rectified at this moment. ;)

However, that status gives me an angle that most people on this board do not have: and that is objectivity. Just as the girls in this video/news report can not see the forest for the trees when it comes to their hazing, clinging to "tradition" at all costs, it is possible (I'M SAYING POSSIBLE ONLY, NOT DEFINITE) that that may also be the case with some GLOs who do the same thing.

I have never said, nor thought that everything the governing bodies did was 100% perfect. It can't be, because they're made up of mere mortal humans. I say there is room to give the NPC the benefit of the doubt when legislating guidelines for behaviour.

The ultimate point of the post you quoted was in the last line: if the attitude toward hazing represented in this thread and the news report is indicative of the next generation of GLO members, then the NPC, etc, have their work cut out for them. That's it. No judgement on the rightness or wrongness of those decisions. Just that they're going to be dealing w/ this issue for years to come and it will be a while before rules are laid out that keep everyone safe w/out chapters suffering as you described. I would like to think these sorry individuals will get blackballed from rush too. But think about it--browse the threads on GC that talk about psychotic sisters and other inappropriate/harmful behaviour. Bad eggs have slipped through and probably will continue to do so.

My opinion may change on this in coming years as I am initiated and participate in my org. On the other hand, it may not. But that's where it stands now.

Peace.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

Yeah, I'm pretty crazy like that...and have really big muscles. ;)

I do agree with whoever said this is on TV now because there is no other news happening. While this is a frightening situation, there are much bigger tragedies in the world that should be getting some press time.

I know you're aren't sticking up for the activity. I too, have been stuck in your position, trying to defend a LXA chapter accused of something they could demonstrate they did NOT do (in your case, it's a little more difficult with a video on the airwaves). However, the allegations made the news. That's all it took. Goodbye charter. Goodbye 81 years of existence. The PR stink caused by allegations sealed the brothers' fate, with no recourse. It stinks, but it did create change in the campus greek system.

OK thank you for explaining the intent forms thing....
but this I still don't get-

'The school will be held accountable. Whether or not anyone thinks it's fair or not. The school KNEW this event happened. It happened between juniors and seniors of this school - not several schools. The fact that the school knew of this activity, and had put an official stop to it in the past, is enough grounds for a lawsuit that the school did NOTHING to stop this event."

They originally held it at the school. It was going out of control, so they BANNED it. Once it moves off campus that's not their jurisdiction...aside from alerting the police the weekend it happens (which they do), theres nothing else they can do!

It's getting worse
 

The Chicago Tribune is reporting that police are investigating whether parents provided the alcohol (which happens more than it should in our neck of the woods, IMHO) and gathered the fecal matter.

I'd heard that parents got the kegs. If the other is true, I'm even more ashamed of our community!

I think a lawyer will easily sway a jury on this one. Since the school was historically involved, saw the dangers, and then "banned" the event, yet they KNEW it still continued, is grounds for a lawsuit. Even though they tried to alert police, an attorney can still say it didn't go far enough.

Didn't the school issue threats of punishment? Is there any record of them actually following through on the threat for anyone since this event went underground? The school still knew it happened...that is the key.

A lawyer will use the video in front of the jury. The emotional shock of seeing children (how the jury will see them) throw human waste, punches, and baseball bat swings will be daming emotional testimony...

Plus, depending on what the age of consent/assent laws are in Illinois, a lawyer may argue that minors can not sign such consents and make them legally binding.

Lawyers are going to make this *very* interesting, w/ a lot of side effects trickling down on other schools. I don't believe for a minute that this school is the only one w/ this type of situation.

Adrienne

Illinois Law
 

Illinois law lets public school systems off the hook for most liability. While that doesn't stop somebody from trying to sue (running up legal fees for the taxpayers), it will be pretty hard to prevail.

Even if they would be considered of legal age to sign such a form, the form would be proven null and void - you can't get someone to agree to participate in something that is inherently illegal, regardless of wording.

The point of all my ranting (for lack of a better term) is this:

The actions of a few, very few, or even ONE individual can have negative consequences for the entire organization, campus, community, GLO: local or international chapter, that NO means of explanation can make go away. The actions will ALWAYS reflect on the larger unit, whether fair or not.

Yes I'm serious, the whole thing seems DERANGED!!!! by both parties. I still stand by the fact that EVERYONE who participates in this sorta strikes me as a little bit off mentally. Don't you have to touch feces to smear it on someone???? Give me a break, all these broads need to be in a psycho ward.

AXJules,

thanks for the information you provided.
But, this school sounds exactly like my highschool. My highschool is one of the top in the country, universities track it, so it bodes well when entering college or university. However, hazing has and does still continue at my school.
I think it's important that this story is on the national (and international news. It's all over the news here) because it lets the country know tht this stuff happenes everywhere, and I think it lets parents know that hey maybe their can't-do-no worng- kid is getting into some trouble or maybe their school isn't as great as they say it is.
My parents thought Humberside was the best school ever, until it started popping up on the news. They wouldn't believe me the neo-nazi Polish commandoes came strolling through the halls, or 2 12th grade boys that I knew decided to duct tape a 10th grader to a chair and then to the flag pole in the pouring rain and were charged with assult.
Just because GBN is known as one of the best schools in the country doesn't mean it is.

Actually I think that's pretty much what means. This is a horrible thing, but our reputation is based on our track record before this. It just happened on Sunday.... We're known as one of the best schools b/c of our academics, sports, the quality of our students, etc. This hasn't been an ongoing problem, this hasn't happened before, and GBN IS one the best schools. Their reputation will be damaged, don't get me wrong. But because a couple girls went crazy and sadistic doesn't change the quality of the school.

I found this pretty interesting.....sounds like the girls got it pretty bad last year, and wanted to "get revenge"....I don't understand that at all, with us we never wanted anyone to experience what our girls did.....but anyway here you go...

-This was taken from an article I was reading that was REALLY long....---

Student organized

That ban hasn't kept students from organizing the games at local forest preserves, although some Glenbrook North seniors said it's only in the past two years that the fun has turned violent.

"It started out as just hazing with ketchup and mustard, and people might get a few scratches, but it turned into pig intestines being wrapped around girls' necks," said Erin Lasday, who said she wasn't at Sunday's hazing, but has friends among those injured.

Kaitlin Getz, the senior class president, said she also stayed away from the fracas, but said she heard the seniors decided to take revenge for the beating they had received the year before, during a fight that featured scissors and buckets of vomit. "They were like, 'If we got it that bad, then we're going to do it equal or better," Getz said.

Riggle said school officials are well aware of the students' game organizing efforts and try to find out details, so they can alert the authorities and break up the game.

"The kids know we condemn it and we try to keep it from happening," he said. "Any time we have knowledge of activities that are detrimental to our students, we alert the authorities. We were not able to be as proactive as we'd like to have been this year."

Several students said participants paid about $35, money that got them special jerseys, as well as beer and other alcoholic beverages.

Lasday said every year, the seniors wear their T-shirts the Friday before the hazing, so she was surprised that school authorities didn't know the event was imminent. This year's shirt was the same as last year's, emblazoned with "Tequiza Pleasa," in reference to beer. "The school forces them to turn them inside out, because of" the shirts' message, Lasday said. "I don't know why" the appearance of the shirts would not"be a big hint" that something was about to happen.

Superintendent Hales said he's told that students wear the T-shirts several times a year, and talk about the powder puff game long before it is scheduled.

The Northbrook police first got word of the fracas on Sunday when a resident called at 1:30 p.m. to report that a "bunch of kids were in the forest preserve making a mess," Northbrook Police Sgt. Tony Matheny said Tuesday.