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-   -   Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness? (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=32789)

33girl 08-26-2009 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by APhiAnna (Post 1840005)
Now would this be the same for girls? Maybe not. I do feel that our gender is, on average (there are obviously exceptions), more likely to aim for the "highest status" than the guys are. I feel like even though many of my friends now would say "I loved XYZ from Day #1!", I remember back in the dorms and they had their hearts set on ABC until they got cut after the second round or something like that.
I know I've said this before, but I believe on the whole the men believe they make the fraternity, and the women believe the sorority makes them. You see it on here...the guys have joined a crap fraternity, and they say "what can I do to fix it?" The girls have joined a crap sorority, and they say "how can I get out of it?" Again, this is a very sweeping generalization.

APhiAnna 08-26-2009 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1840036)
I know I've said this before, but I believe on the whole the men believe they make the fraternity, and the women believe the sorority makes them. You see it on here...the guys have joined a crap fraternity, and they say "what can I do to fix it?" The girls have joined a crap sorority, and they say "how can I get out of it?" Again, this is a very sweeping generalization.
Actually that is a very simple and intelligent way to put it. I agree with you completely. I think guys tend to join the house where their personality fits the best, regardless of status, and then work their asses off to raise their status but keep the "vibe" the same.

itb 08-26-2009 04:09 PM
@DGTess: Note that there was a caveat: " if little Suzie was of dubious moral character or legal status that she would NOT be offered a bid". So a bid is not offered blindly.
@33Girl: Quotas are still an atificial limit on size, and as an extension an artificial limit on the size of an eritire house is just as silly. A rushee could decide if they want to be a member of a large house, just as easily as they could decide to be a member of a smaller house. Or they could choose based on belief or fit. But you take away a choice if you impose quotas. If you extrapolate the quota system to other things, does that mean that you should limit the size of members into other college club/organization (like the Glee club or Band or the Accounting Club)? Should it be applied to church sizes? Or political parties? Or to cities or states? Of course not, because it IS artificial. But the SIZE of an organization will work itself out over time. Some people may LIKE large groups, and others may NOT.

The problem with legacies is exasperated by miscommunication of the chapter to the mother/grandmother/aunt. Often a call to them could ease the problem, because information does get shared. And it is important to remember that this applies to ALL GLOs, male or female.

APhiAnna 08-26-2009 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1840034)
I guarantee you that if some of these legacies went to schools where mom, sister, grandma, aunt's chapter was struggling or otherwise not what they were used to, they would stop "truly seeing themselves as an ABC" in record time. Some, not all (so don't jump down my throat).
In some cases where XYZ at Ole Miss or Bama has more legacies going through than quota, it is interesting to question whether enough legacies are planning on joining XYZ to actually make a quota...many may decide they would rather join a different chapter making it irrelevant. However, XYZ has no way of knowing which ones are genuinely interested in joining their legacy and which ones are returning as a courtesy to their mother but have no intention in hell of actually joining...I would imagine the sorority would get it wrong on at least several PNMs. That may be where the real trouble comes in.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2009 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by APhiAnna (Post 1840054)
Actually that is a very simple and intelligent way to put it. I agree with you completely. I think guys tend to join the house where their personality fits the best, regardless of status, and then work their asses off to raise their status but keep the "vibe" the same.
I also find that while men tend to join where their personalities fit, women tend to want to join the chapter that is most like who they WANT to be (especially with freshmen), rather than where their personalities fit.

Another huge generalization, I know. Flame me if I'm WAY off.

33girl 08-26-2009 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itb (Post 1840056)
But the SIZE of an organization will work itself out over time. Some people may LIKE large groups, and others may NOT.
I agree with you to a point. I personally chose to join a group that was smaller because it was smaller. However, you are talking about a difference of 15 people, not 40-50-60 as can happen at a Ole Miss type school. I also looked at every sorority, even though it was not required when I rushed.

The problem is that as long as national groups keep giving awards that are based on size (meeting total/quota) rather than percentage of members retained, girls are going to believe that bigger is better. And, I think that's just an American viewpoint in general. Bigger just through dint of more members paying dues, has nicer housing and more opportunities (social and educational). Bigger keeps getting bigger, smaller dies out and there IS no choice but bigger. Unfortunately, that just seems to be the way that females think.

So, until we can entirely change that mindset, using quota/total is the lesser of two evils (the other evil being chapters closing).

cbm 08-26-2009 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1840059)
I also find that while men tend to join where their personalities fit, women tend to want to join the chapter that is most like who they WANT to be (especially with freshmen), rather than where their personalities fit.

Another huge generalization, I know. Flame me if I'm WAY off.
No flames here, that's exactly what I think about it, too...I just couldn't find a way to word it. Most girls leave open house day set on the prettiest/well dressed/socially connected/popular sororities and keep set on them until they are cut or something happens to make them dislike the house. That's one reason why it's really difficult for struggling houses to dig themselves out of their struggle. All the girls want the more popular houses, and those houses have their choice of girls to choose from.

FSUZeta 08-26-2009 05:15 PM
it is often the same with young women when they decide who to date. most often they try to date the most attractive, popular guy they can-they rarely aspire to date the campus dork. ten years down the road, the most popular guy in college may still be stuck in the "frat boy" mentality, while campus dork has blossomed into a successful, suave individual, but we rarely look that far in the future and we can't change human nature.

AOEforme 08-26-2009 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1840059)
I also find that while men tend to join where their personalities fit, women tend to want to join the chapter that is most like who they WANT to be (especially with freshmen), rather than where their personalities fit.
My rho gammas actually told us when I went through recruitment to "pick the house with the women who are who you want to be when you grow up".

KSUViolet06 08-26-2009 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOEforme (Post 1840081)
My rho gammas actually told us when I went through recruitment to "pick the house with the women who are who you want to be when you grow up".
See and I don't think that's something that Rho Gams should tell girls.

Because who you want to be when you grow up doesn't always fit best with the type of people you like to be around and what your personality is.

Nevermind the whole "pick the house" statement because recruitment doesn't typically involve picking so much as ranking them.

AOEforme 08-26-2009 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1840084)
See and I don't think that's something that Rho Gams should tell girls.

Because who you want to be when you grow up doesn't always fit best with the type of people you like to be around and what your personality is.

Nevermind the whole "pick the house" statement because recruitment doesn't typically involve picking so much as ranking them.
No, totally. And while it was well-meaning, most girls weren't like "Hey, this house is classy and mature. They are all professional, well-put together women who are socially gracefully and kind. "

It was more like "Hey- these are the hot, pretty partiers who date the best fraternity men. I want to be them."

BlueCarnation 08-26-2009 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOEforme (Post 1840087)
No, totally. And while it was well-meaning, most girls weren't like "Hey, this house is classy and mature. They are all professional, well-put together women who are socially gracefully and kind. "

It was more like "Hey- these are the hot, pretty partiers who date the best fraternity men. I want to be them."
So true. And that's why legacies are such a tricky issue. I really thought I had a well-reasoned argument on this, and as I go through the recruitment process right now with my chapter, I am beginning to rethink it. It's just so tricky.

WCsweet<3 08-26-2009 06:42 PM
On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.

BlueCarnation 08-26-2009 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCsweet<3 (Post 1840120)
On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.
I don't think it matters. My grandmother was deceased when I went through, but I was still considered a legacy. Why would it matter whether they were alive or not?

WCsweet<3 08-26-2009 06:45 PM
Isn't there a legacy form to fill out and send to the chapter? I wouldn't have known my grandmother's pin number or anything like that.

KSUViolet06 08-26-2009 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCsweet<3 (Post 1840120)
On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.
I can't speak for other sororities, but as for mine, you are still a legacy even if the sister/mother/grandma is deceased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCsweet<3 (Post 1840125)
Isn't there a legacy form to fill out and send to the chapter? I wouldn't have known my grandmother's pin number or anything like that.


We do have space on our rec form to indicate if the rec is for a legacy (not a separate form), but I don't believe it asks for the relative's badge number. I believe it only asks for her name, chapter and initiation date. The recruitment director will use that info to verify her legacy status.

WCsweet<3 08-26-2009 06:51 PM
Ah okay thank you. The thought had popped into my head when reading this thread and while I know what to do for KD, I wasn't sure about other sororities.

VandalSquirrel 08-26-2009 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCsweet<3 (Post 1840120)
On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.
My grandmother is deceased and another alumna sent in the form to Alpha Gam. I have also done that for a woman who wasn't a legacy per our policy, but she was close to the relative and I mentioned that in a letter.

Zillini 08-26-2009 10:57 PM
This year we had a legacy PNM whose mother was deceased. Mom's pledge sisters jumped in and a bunch of them sent Intros and Recs just to make sure she was "covered". The daughter is now one of our new members.

lyrelyre 08-27-2009 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itb (Post 1839655)

To put it bluntly, if there wasn't a quota system, wouldn't all legacies be offered a bid, provided they were of appropriate moral character? After all, I think that the legacies' mother/sister/aunt/grandmother/(and so forth) would understand if little Suzie was of dubious moral character or legal status that she would NOT be offered a bid. The real problem is that the chapters do a POOR job of talking to the family and keeping them informed, when they OUGHT to be forthright. For example, if little Suzie was told BEFORE she would not be offered a legacy bid, I'm sure little Suzie would move on. But the chapter does not always work like that. In truth, they work in secret and keep it secretive. The chapter and the national HAVE to be in communication with their members on their legacies; it's when they are NOT that problems occur.
To put it bluntly: no, all legacies would not be offered a bid if there wasn’t a quota system. Sometimes there are legacies who are perfectly nice and meet the membership criteria but do not have that elusive “fit” for which all chapters are looking. Further, most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter is of “dubious moral character” and, as a recruitment advisor, I’m not going to be the one to slander someone to a family member even if that family member is a fellow alumna. Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1839688)
Once again I ask - would either of you enjoy being in a chapter with 400 members? Seriously?

Would you enjoy having a choice of only 3-4 groups at a campus of 25,000 because only the "strongest" groups have survived?
Moreover, the strongest groups aren’t going to be willing to pledge every PNM. This leads to 3-4 “strong” groups and a large number of women being left out of Greek life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1839756)
So if I understand what everyone seems to be saying, the issue seems to be that some chapters have more legacies than they can bid. That there can be legacies that are a good fit and are desirable *and* the legacy herself wants to be a member. Yet due to quota etc., she may be released.

If that is the issue, then what about the following.

HQs consider changing their rules regarding Alumnae Initiation (gasp!) so that legacies may "seek" (don't know the correct terminology) membership in their legacy sorority. If ABC currently does not allow AI, they would *now* do so *if* the women was a legacy *and* she was a good fit. A sort of special consideration or exception as the case may be.

To be clear, AI would not be a guarantee at all. And may not be offered or allowed for "just anyone".

The way I envision this is that a chapter will still cut legacies and extend bids to those they want. However, for the legacy that is cut and still wants to an ABC, she would have the ability to seek membership as an alumnae. She would not be guaranteed it, but have the ability to seek it. Thus some NPC HQs would have to change their policy on AI.

Now it is true that the girl may not have benefited by having been an undergraduate member of ABC. But if she was "groomed" to be an ABC, and really wants it, and would be a good fit as an alum, then why allow it? The undergrad chapter is not compromised at all. For what it is worth, something similar seems to work well with NPHC sororities.

Finally, my intent is not to have a "ABC does not offer AI" discussion. But to have HQs think *Outside The Box*. To discuss ways that a legacy - who truly sees herself as an ABC - have a way to be an ABC and be a production member as well. Something along this line might be a partial solution to what will most likely continue to be the *more legacies than bids* issue.
Allowing legacies to AI if they meet membership criteria would exacerbate the situation. You would potentially be creating even more legacies that could not be offered bids in the future. Not to mention that if the undergraduate chapter would have been “compromised” by her membership, I most likely do not want her as a sister through AI.

Trust me; chapters do not release PNMs, especially legacies, that they want as members. Chapters release PNMs that they would take as members and invite back the PNMs to whom they would like to offer bids.

itb 08-27-2009 11:41 AM
[QUOTE=lyrelyre;1840262] Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

/QUOTE]

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

33girl 08-27-2009 12:12 PM
Think about when you were in school though...if someone's grandma had called you asking about her granddaughter that she loves more than anything on earth, wanting to know if she got a bid. What Grandma doesn't know is that her pride and joy spent the summer partying at the FGH fraternity house, sleeping with half the brothers and doing lines of coke off their charter.

You need to put yourself in a 19 year old's position and think about how horrid that situation would be. I know we had a sister (eventually terminated) whose dad was an administrator at the college - she was the wildest girl I ever knew, and her dad blamed US for corrupting her. Nothing could have been further from the truth!! That situation was bad enough, I can't imagine what the girls go through who are dealing with hundreds of legacies (not all of whom are as squeaky clean as they appear on paper).

Sororities are collegiate groups whose members are chosen by college students. For better or worse, that's the way it needs to stay, unless the whole system is completely revamped into something more like a job or college entrance interview.

kddani 08-27-2009 12:17 PM
See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.

33girl 08-27-2009 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kddani (Post 1840346)
See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.
Yeah, I know. I'm hoping maybe eventually she'll get the point, or read something that rings true.

lyrelyre 08-27-2009 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itb (Post 1840333)
That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.
I disagree. Silence rules are in effect to keep chapters from placing pressure on a PNM and her family. They may be “artificial” and imperfect, but they’re what we have. If you can recommend something that’s legitimately better, go for it. If all you are going to do is complain and offer no workable solutions you can ride the bitter bus on out of here.

The fact remains: most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter has a bad reputation. It’s probably a generational thing, because sisters generally do know of one another’s reputations. Like I said: I'm not calling little Suzy's mother/aunt/grandmother and telling her that little Suzy might look good on paper but she's really a skank.

crescent&pearls 08-27-2009 01:39 PM
I've been ruminating on something while reading this thread..I never thought of release figures as mandatory or arbitrary.

Release figures are based on a formula, and that formula is derived from historical return stats. The most popular chapters therefore have to release the largest number of pnms, because their stats indicate that they will very likely have their choice of their favorites accept their invitations.

If a group has a variation in their returns, they can appeal to the panhellenic advisor in charge of rush to be flexible with their return rates to maximize the chance of pledging quota right? and vice versa, a chapter having extraordinarily high and unexpected returns might be asked to whittle their invite list down for the benefit of the system, and to avoid having too many women that end up bidless.

All the chapters agree to abide by the system because its the most efficient way to manage the recruitment of a large number of new members. None of us could or would want to pledge all our legacies, but because we all promote the system to our friends and classmates and legacies we all mutually benefit from the system. It's not perfect, but it does work something along the lines of what Ronald Reagan once said..."when the tide comes in, it raises up all the boats in the harbor."

I amy not have all this exactly right, but maybe someone whose been involved more recently with the RFM can give their perspective?

lauralaylin 08-27-2009 01:47 PM
You're thinking of flex lists. When given a number that the chapter can invite back, they are often also asked to give a + and - list with a specific number of PNMs ranked. So if the chapter does better or worse than expected, they are covered. IMO this makes it not arbitrary at all.

TXalum1 08-27-2009 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCsweet<3 (Post 1840125)
Isn't there a legacy form to fill out and send to the chapter? I wouldn't have known my grandmother's pin number or anything like that.
You are thinking about the Legacy Introduction form. It was in the Spring 2009 issue of the magazine. It just asks for basic info, no badge numbers, etc. All you need is the chapter and initiation year, and you could guess at the year and write "deceased" on the address line. You still have to fill in a reference form. They suggest having the alum staple them together even though they duplicate some of the information.

One of my friends did that when her daughters went through recruitment, but we didn't include it with my references on her daughters. She sent it to the chapter with a note.

Zillini 08-27-2009 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itb (Post 1840333)
That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.
That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

KSUViolet06 08-27-2009 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillini (Post 1840403)
That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.
To be quite honest, why should we have to disclose WHY a legacy was released?

I understand that we should notify the relative of the release, but I totally disagree with having to tell them that "Suzy has questionable grades and has beer pong pics on Facebook."

As far as my sorority goes, THAT is part of Membership Selection. It's very private.

We would never tell any other PNM or her family the exact reason that she was cut, so I fail to see why we should do it for legacies.

ADqtPiMel 08-27-2009 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillini (Post 1840403)
These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.
Can I tell you how pleased I was that they adopted this policy the year BEFORE I became recruitment advisor? :)

honeychile 08-30-2009 08:55 PM
I knew I had read an article on this very topic, and sure enough, it was from our Adelphean Magazine and is in the public domain. You can read it here.

WCsweet<3 08-31-2009 12:23 AM
I understand why legacies are given some extra treatment (at some places that is). I mean the parents do have more of a clue about greek life than non-greek parents, but on the other hand, I feel like it puts pressure on the PNM. If I don't like Mom/Sister/whatever sorority will they be mad? If Patty PNM is a legacy to XYZ the other sororities will cut her because that is the only place she will want to be.

The two examples I put above have been things I've heard tossed around GC or on my campus. A girl I have known all my life went through recruitment after her mother and sister went through on the same campus. Older daughter almost didn't continue through recruitment because she didn't like her mom's chapter. The second daughter was crying when she went through because she didn't know what to do with her family's chapters. Was she supposed to love them? She ended up pledging her sister's sorority (sisters squared) and her mother was fine with that, but both daughters had a lot of pressure and needless worry because of the legacy factor.

It makes sense to me, but on the other hand it doesn't.

KSUViolet06 08-31-2009 12:38 AM
I think the level of worry that a PNM experiences in regards to being legacy (i.e. worrying if mom will be upset about her not liking XYZ/getting cut from XYZ/dropping XYZ) depends on the type of parent/relative we're dealing with.

If you have an ultra supportive mom who really just wants to see you happy and didn't really push the legacy chapter, you likely aren't going to be TOO hung up on getting cut from there or dropping them (or just not liking them).

However, if your mom is the type who feels that come hell or high water, you WILL be an XYZ, has been grooming you for XYZ since birth and nothing else will do, you likely are going to be pretty worried about whether you get invited back there. Mom's approval depends on it.

ForeverRoses 08-31-2009 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeychile (Post 1841601)
I knew I had read an article on this very topic, and sure enough, it was from our Adelphean Magazine and is in the public domain. You can read it here.
Honeychile- the Adelphean is lovely. I was impressed by some of the legacy families they listed.

I was curious about one of the legacy policies- "Any chapter not at Total the term before the formal recruitment period must extend a bid to any legacy participating in formal recruitment. Any exception to this must be approved by the District Team Director".

I haven't heard of that policy with any other group.

honeychile 08-31-2009 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRoses (Post 1841743)
Honeychile- the Adelphean is lovely. I was impressed by some of the legacy families they listed.

I was curious about one of the legacy policies- "Any chapter not at Total the term before the formal recruitment period must extend a bid to any legacy participating in formal recruitment. Any exception to this must be approved by the District Team Director".

I haven't heard of that policy with any other group.
Since Alpha Delta Pi actually has 9- and 10-generation legacies, we're all about the historical value. That's the best response I can give. Maybe another GLO has something similar?

When I was in school, a 5-generation legacy rushed us. She made it abundantly clear from Open Houses on that she did NOT want to go greek, that her family was forcing her to rush. By the second round, I had to make the call to our DTD and tell them she didn't want to rush, and she in turn called our EO. No go. The next round, it was obvious that not only did she not want to rush, she didn't want us - and frankly, we didn't like her. Long story short, we pledged her, she came to about half of the pledge meetings, got initiated at Convention, and transferred to a school without a chapter of ADPi. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, if she ever had a daughter, she did not pressure her to go ADPi! The better news is that she had a fantastic roomie, who pledged with her and fit in from Bid Day on!

Having said that, I do know of another legacy who was completely obnoxious - her mother, two aunts, and two cousins are all ADPis - but the chapter was luckier with her. A Traveling Counsultant AND the DTD were there during Recruitment, met her, and they made sure that she stayed cut!

SydneyK 08-31-2009 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeychile (Post 1841810)
Having said that, I do know of another legacy who was completely obnoxious - her mother, two aunts, and two cousins are all ADPis - but the chapter was luckier with her. A Traveling Counsultant AND the DTD were there during Recruitment, met her, and they made sure that she stayed cut!
@ bolded - it's a shame that chapters aren't trusted to make these decisions on their own. I'm not trying to say anything bad about ADPi specifically - because it likely happens in other orgs, too. But seriously, if it takes this many people (in addition to the chapter members) to cut undesireable legacies, something is wrong. If the chapter doesn't see a good fit with a legacy, then since they're the ones who will have to interact with said legacy, it makes sense to me that the chapter should get to decide whether to bid her.

I think it's awesome that there are 9- and 10-generation legacies (of any org) out there, though. I'm not trying to diminish legacy status by any means.

33girl 09-03-2009 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyK (Post 1841818)
@ bolded - it's a shame that chapters aren't trusted to make these decisions on their own. I'm not trying to say anything bad about ADPi specifically - because it likely happens in other orgs, too. But seriously, if it takes this many people (in addition to the chapter members) to cut undesireable legacies, something is wrong. If the chapter doesn't see a good fit with a legacy, then since they're the ones who will have to interact with said legacy, it makes sense to me that the chapter should get to decide whether to bid her.

I think it's awesome that there are 9- and 10-generation legacies (of any org) out there, though. I'm not trying to diminish legacy status by any means.
I think what honeychile meant was more that the TC & DTD were there to make sure the collegians didn't waffle under Obnoxious Ophelia's relatives calling and asking why she got cut. It sounded like the collegians were in agreement on not wanting her skank ass in the chapter. :) In that case, it's nice to have someone above you back you up.

SydneyK 09-03-2009 04:24 PM
It sounded to me, too, that the collegians didn't want her skank ass in the chapter. Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounded like the chapter wouldn't have been allowed to refrain from bidding the girl without the support of the TC and DTD.

honeychile 09-03-2009 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1843054)
I think what honeychile meant was more that the TC & DTD were there to make sure the collegians didn't waffle under Obnoxious Ophelia's relatives calling and asking why she got cut. It sounded like the collegians were in agreement on not wanting her skank ass in the chapter. :) In that case, it's nice to have someone above you back you up.
For the win - although I will never be able to see this woman again without thinking of the phrase "skank ass"! I was in chapter with one of the cousins, and do occasionally run into her.

And yes, it's FANTASTIC when the higher-ups back up the collegiates' decisions!


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