And there went the thread.

Since this thread is concerned with whether one would marry someone in the military I am not completely sure how your question seriously relates to military men and women who, as part of that tough path to follow, are required to maintain height and weight standards. However, from my point of view, I have never met a woman who weighed 300 pounds but I have met, formed friendships with, and dated women who considered themselves very overweight. I preferred to think of them as shapely. Please understand that I am not into fat, and conversely I am not into skinny. I am into women who are attractive to me. I would like to think that I would make my judgment on a lady's attractiveness based on criteria a bit broader than her dress size. Probably the sexiest woman I ever met was rather "chubby", but she had an awsome intellect, a wicked sense of humor, and a personality that attracted me like the well known moth to the flame. When I met her she was a grad student at Oxford, and things might well have developed into something permanent except that when I came back to the States she stayed in England. She eventually married a hell of a good guy (damn), and now has a successful career in merchant banking in London while her husband is a sought after barrister who will likely make QC in a couple of years.

An outsider judging your preference could say "I don't admire a man who would settle for internal beauty when the complete package of internal and external beauty is out there."

See--preferences and things that go along with our ideals and expectations are what this thread is about. You're not under a social contract to date or marry "internally unattractive" women. That doesn't mean you don't acknowledge that such women are probably making some contributions to this world and making some other men happy, though.

Actually, it does work for me. I figure that serving my country didn't put my life on hold but rather it gave me the chance to invest something of myself into my belief in the obligation of public service. If one is going to talk the talk it really does follow that one must be prepared to walk the walk. If you are interested you might find my postings in the AVE ATQUE VALE thread worth reading and perhaps a bit amusing.

Well congrats to you and your family. :)

I'm not interested in your story, but suffice it to say that I also feel obligated to do public service. This is why I have been doing community service all of my life and chose the profession that I chose. :)

I didn't realize that I was settling for anything. I thought I was choosing the one whose total persona was attractive to me. I certainly do not consider myself under any social contract to date "internally unattractive" women. To me internally attractive is just as, if not more so, important as external appearance. As my Grand Dad used to say, one must ask what sort of man would prefer jeunne beaujolais to a richly complex claret. Even when I was a small boy I understood that he was not talking about wine.

:)

Eventhough you missed the point and went on a rant, you accidentally supported what we're saying: We're making choices based on what we find attractive and what we find fits our life expectations and goals. That pertains to dating and marrying military men and any other type of man.

I'd call the very real possibility of being deeply depressed because my husband is gone for months at a time and raising children largely on my own a bit more than an "inconvenience."

Couple of thoughts:
First, I believe we are fairly close to agreement here. As I said, I do not have, and should not have, any problem with anyone's decision on such a matter as marriage to a military person when that decision is based on reflection and consideration that the military path either as a soldier or as a spouse is just not for them. In my own experience, I did not choose to be a Jesuit Priest. I thought about it and decided that it was not the path for me. I want to love a woman as a husband. If this proves your point, fine with me. My comment was about my reaction with regard to those who rejected the possibility of marriage to a soldier for frivolous reasons without reflection and consideration.
Second, I don't think I was "accidentally" supporting your position, I was answering a question by stating what has always been my position, that I personally don't like life affecting decisions based on superficial and frivolous criteria. I don't think its appropriate for me to comment on anyone's decision made after reflection and consideration. If this supports your position, then great! I would rather find agreement.
As an OBTW, regarding missing the point, my attitudinal comments are directed to "would you MARRY someone in the military?", and not directed as to who anyone might want to date on a social basis. I think there is a vast difference between the two, and I'm really not anywhere near that uptight.

Good.

This thread was never really about patriotism and military appreciation, like you tried to make it.

DSTCHAOS,
Aw, just when I thought we were getting close to common ground.
Actually, my comments were meant to be less about patriotism and appreciation and more about life altering decisions made on good or not so good criteria. The subject of the thread was about marriage to a military person and I admit I do have strong feelings on the subject based on my experience as a commanding officer in a forward deployed location and on my Dad's, both as a CO and as a lawyer trying to help people in that difficult path of marriage in the military. As I said, I am in awe of those who choose the path of military marriage and make it work, but it really is not for everyone, nor should it be.
I happily concede that the decision lies with the decider, I just feel that life altering decisions need to be made on a considered basis. I have seen too many instances of friends and acquaintences who made snap decisions on rather frivolous grounds, and very nearly all of them later came to regret those decisions. Is this a rant? Probably, but its also letting down my guard and telling you why I might come off as hard over on the subject. It really does matter to me and I do think my thoughts are gremain to the subject of the thread. OK, shields are down, over to you.

:)

Based on your opinion of the military, which goes back to my point. If we were talking about dating and marrying traveling salespersons, I doubt you'd go on a rant about how valuable these salespeople are to capitalism and how it's superficial to choose not to marry one just because it's inconvenient to you and your family.

For the record: I doubt anyone in here would seriously marry a military man because they look good in uniforms. That was an extra perk and what initially attracts some women to military men. That's the only superficial or "not so good" criteria that I read in this thread. The other stuff is extremely valid reasoning for marrying or not marrying ANYONE.

[QUOTE=DSTCHAOS;1337873]:)
Extract quote:
Based on your opinion of the military, which goes back to my point. If we were talking about dating and marrying traveling salespersons, I doubt you'd go on a rant about how valuable these salespeople are to capitalism and how it's superficial to choose not to marry one just because it's inconvenient to you and your family.

===========================================

I agree with you regarding traveling salespeople, although I think they don't have the easiest job in the world. However, I was talking about people who go in harm's way lay it all on the line, not people who sell stuff out of a suit case. I would most likely have had the same or a similar reaction regarding paramedics, firefighters, cops, or any profession where one lays it all on the line, all of whom I hold in very high regard, and as I understand it all face difficult conditions in marriage.
And, rather importantly I think, we are looking at this from a crucially different vantage point. If I understand your comments, you are talking about dating and marrying, I am talking only about marrying. Quite a difference from my vantage point. I do not think either of us are playing at obfuscation so would it be fair to say that we are reading from similar but slightly different sheets of music?

None of these logistics matter. It all boils down to people choosing what they will and will not deal with. ;)

"First comes love, then comes marriage...."

I have to chime in again. I as reading over the posts, and from what I see, I think all of the people who have said they couldn't marry a military man (or woman) all have very valid reasons for not wanting to do so. Some people have great careers that can take them places and they will not be able to pick up and move at the government's whim and keep their jobs from which they gain so much satisfaction. Some people are very close to their families and have never (and perhaps COULD never) had to move very far away from them. Some people are not good with all of the household responsibilities and will recoil when having to cook, clean, do yard work, take care of kids, pay the bills, maintain the automobiles, etc in the face of the absence of their spouse. Still others are not good with alone time and separation, and those times come a lot more often than not in the military.

So when someone posts that they couldn't marry someone in the military for whatever reason, I believe they are showing great strength of charachter and knowledge of self to realize that they are not cut out for the hardships military spouses have to endure. That is what I wish so many people would do before they got married, before they start a family they end up ripping apart. This thread makes me think of the military marriage vows:

If the Army wanted you to have a wife, it would have issued you one.
Dear Family and Friends, we are gathered here today in the sight of God and the Department of the Army to witness this exchange of vows and see the love that these two dedicated, loving people have for one another.

"Wilt thou, Robert, take Debbie (who was once referred to as the "dependent"), as your Family Member, to dwell together in so far as the Department of the Army will permit?

"Wilt thou love her, comfort her via the Postal Service or over the phone, make sure she knows where the commissary, PX., and church are and what time she is scheduled to use the laundry room the day she arrives, wherever you are stationed? "Wilt thou attempt to tell her more than 24 hours in advance that you will be leaving for two weeks, beginning the next morning? This especially applies to the years you will live in a foreign country!"

"Wilt thou, Debbie, take this soldier as thy wedded husband, knowing that he is depending upon you to be the perfect (well, almost) Army Wife, running the household as you see fit and being nice to the Commander's wife?

Further, you understand that your life with your husband (little that you may have together) will not be normal, that you may have to explain to your children, not once, but twice, and more often in the same day, that mothers do have husbands, that children do have daddies, and that the picture of the man on the refrigerator is not the milkman, but the same individual who tucks them in at 2200 hours, long after they are asleep. This soldier is their daddy, who loves them very, very much.

"Wilt thou love, respect and wait for him, preparing his favorite meals when he does come home, freezing them when he doesn't, send him all his favorite cookies and pictures of yourself and the kids, so he can remember what you look like? And last but not least, put on the outside of your door his "Welcome Home" sign when he's due to arrive?"

"I, Robert, take thee, Debbie, as my independent wife from 1900-2200 hours or as long as allowed by my Commanding Officer (subject to change without notice) for better or worse, earlier or later, near or far, and I promise to look at the pictures you send me, maybe not when they get to me in the field, but before I turn the lights out. I will also send a letter if time permits, and if not, to somehow, some way, make time."

"I, Debbie, take thee, Rob, as my live-in/live-out husband, realizing that your coming and going and 0330 staff meetings are a normal (although absurd to me) part of your life as a soldier. I promise not to be shocked or taken by surprise when you inform me that, although we've just arrived at our new duty station, we will be leaving within the month.

Yes, I'll have you as my husband as long as while you are away, my allotment comes through regularly, and you leave me a current power of attorney and the checkbook at all times. I am a Family Member and proud of it, dependent upon myself and my resources. Although I miss you when you are away, I know I can handle whatever comes across my path."

Now then, let no man or woman put asunder what God and the Department of the Army have brought together, only for them to soon say "Good-bye" to one another.

Robert leaves for his duty assignment to Germany tomorrow. Debbie will be joining him whenever the approval arrives. The Army hereby issues you this lovely, dedicated, independent woman, knowing that she'll be an asset not only to your marriage, but also to the Mission of the United States Army, which is, as you all know, to remain in a state of "Readiness."

By the authority vested in the Bible, elaborated in the regulations and subject to current directives concerning the aspect of marriage in the Army, you are now a Soldier with Family Member. Best Wishes and Good Luck. (Debbie Ann Stohlman, an Army Wife, lives in Wiesbaden, Germany)

Sorry it's so long. :)

Excellent post, scbelle, and the last line was the best. The chaplain who officiated at our wedding said that very thing and I remember thinking, "how CALLOUS that sounds!" But, yep, he was right.

Good post. :)

I didnt read the whole thread yet - but not a chance in hell. As a veteran myself and knowing what I know (as the OP asked) no effen way. Hence the reason why my sailor right now (who is on deployment right now, coming home in just a few more weeks) is getting out prior to us getting married next October. His DD214 (separation papers that say he's officially a civilian- for those of you who dont know)is gonna be my snot rag at the wedding.

I'm not gonna have to explain to my kids why Daddy couldnt come to the baseball game or ballet recital. I'm not gonna pop out babies while he's playing cops and robbers overseas. For the women who can do it - good on you, I'm nt near as straong as you are. I've been on two deployments myself and the past 5.5 months (He left on May 2nd) has been the worst thing I've ever had to go through -worse than me being on deployment myself. No way could I do this for the next 10-20 years. I give major props to our service men and women....but the navy is not family oriented enough for me to feel comfortable being second best priority due to the fact that when you're military, the military HAS to be your number 1 priority. Thanks but no thanks, I gotta be number one. I cant speak for other branches of the service. Sailors belong as Sea. Being at sea means being away from the family. Sorry, no can do.

And for those who keep saying "hot in uniform" comments.....um, there are some pretty ugly dudes in the military. Taken em out of uniform and see them in normal every day streetwear and they arent that hot. Uniforms are hot simply because they are uniforms.

I miss cashmoney....

Very true.

LOL, reminds me of when I first moved to Virginia Beach and then-fiance Mr. KR and I were hanging out with some friends at the officers club at NAS Oceana (the big jet base on the east coast). I was bummed beyond belief that none of the guys walking around in flight suits looked like Maverick or Iceman. Not even a little bit.

I thought about it for awhile when I had serious feelings for a guy in the Navy (KR remembers that!).

But it just doesn't jive with my profession, and someone else whose job required them to move frequently also would not work. I happen to be of a profession where you have to go through a lengthy and expensive process to get licensed in different states.

I also have the same feelings about what is required in a relationship like DSTChaos talked about. I know I couldn't deal with that person gone to another country fighting with guns, etc. Hell, I worry like crazy when my boyfriend (a volunteer firefighter) gets a call, even though that's much safer than active duty in a warzone.

For those of you who can handle it, great. For those of us who can't, I think it's much better to realize the kind of person we are and what we require in order to live semi-happily than to try to force something to work.

My husband is currently in the Air Force, and has been since we have been dating since 2002. We recently got married in December 2005.

While it is hard at times to be a military wife, I wouldn't trade him for the world. However, the AF is not what makes him who he is - it is his job. It can be dangerous at times, but so can so many other professions.

Basically some people can handle it, some people can't - it's as simple as that.

I am not going to go back through this whole thread & read all the posts, but I do welcome any questions anyone may have for me.

LOL. My boss thinks I'm a total nut job because I just started snorting and chortling over this comment. It made my day! :)

So true!! I work at the base here in DC and we had an event and showed "Top Gun" and one of the officers from the Ceremonial Guard showed up in his old flight suit. All of my female co-workers were like, where's the hot pilots like in the movie?

Although down at Pax River where there actually are planes, there are occaisionally some hotties in the flight suits. I wish I got to go there more :p .

Almost exactly a year ago, one of my best friends married her bf of a few years. He is in the Marines.

They got married during one of this breaks, and then he got deployed. He's currently somewhere north (Carolinas maybe?) because that's where he's currently stationed.

If I were her, I wouldn't think of that as much of a marriage. I mean, she's seen him maybe only a few days since they were married.

Granted, she could move up there with him, but right now for whatever reason she doesn't want to move arund until they know for sure where he'll be so she doesn't have to keep bouncing around.

So IMHO, that makes me wonder why they even got married in the first place, but I'm sure she had her reasons as he was about to be deployed to Iraq.

And on that note, there's a big difference between cadets in full dress vs. 2LTs in BDUs! :):D

Would I marry someone in the military?

Of course, I did. In fact we were both active duty when we got married.
We've been married 6 years and this year was the first anniversary ever that we got to spend together with nothing military going on.

He's now a civilian but I am still in the National Guard and don't envision getting out anytime soon. He knows the deal, knows I may get deployed again and is Ok with it. That's why we have a strong support group in place for the lil ones.

However, if I was never in the military I don't know that I would have been able to really understand all the trials and tribulations of deployments and late nights. That really did help.

Maybe we should turn it around. A military man would never marry ME. I'm too outspoken about decreasing the defense budget and diverting it to Education and Health Care. I also think we should have been out of Iraq by now. That said, my views start too many arguments of which I'm not willing to compromise.

My very good friend married a man in the air force. Had he not left the service, they would have been divorced. Desert Storm (during and after), created a huge strain on their marriage. A couple of times he has mentioned reenlisting, and she puts the Yellow Pages on the kitchen table, opened to "Divorce Attorneys"

Five years later, the answer is still a resounding NO! And it's not for political reasons, I have a career that necessitates my being in a handful of cities. I can't move around a whole lot. There's also the deployment issue--I did a long distance relationship for years in college, and I hope to never do it again. Why would I get into a marriage where that could be standard? :confused:

you aint never LIED! its Fleet Week here and SATC LIED hard... none of them men are hot. i wouldnt take nunnanem home for a quick romp.


sounds like my parents' marriage (and eventual divorce). left for Desert Storm in 91 (to Germany) and came back in 93 (the years may be inaccurate, but it was around that time, early 90s). they filed for divorce as soon as we got back in the states.

No. I don't think I could handle the lifestyle. I love to travel as much as the next person, but I don't like the idea of having to uproot myself, sometimes at a moment's notice. Plus, not having him around, constantly worrying if he would come home the next time, etc. These things would bother me from the beginning, but once we had kids this would absolutely drive me nuts. Not that you can't raise healthy, secure kids while you're moving around (or that kids who never move always grow up well), but uprooting them would worry me. I'd worry about them having all sorts of attachment issues and whatnot. I know that's silly, but it'd probably go through my mind anyway.

AMEN. http://www.pledgepark.com/images/smilies/rockon.gif

I always said no, never, not in a million years, fun to date but not marriage material. And here I am, engaged to a signal officer who's deployed for 12-15 months. You can't help who you fall in love with and who you're meant to be with. And if that right man happens to be in the military and has to leave for a while, it'll be worth the wait. You don't know what you can handle until you're asked... And I strongly believe God never asks you to shoulder more than you can bare.