Be sure to tell every single active you speak to that you'll be at UT for three years. And tell them what you told us. Just don't say "half-assed" during the parties. :p

I went through formal rush as a sophomore. We do formal rush here second semester. The spring before, in my freshman year, I went through the COB process(it was an interview and a party) w/ DG w/ my roommate and got a bid but decided not to take it because I decided that I would rather check out more than one sorority. Vanderbilt is a huge Greek school, with 50% of women in sororities. I really did want to be in a sorority as a freshman, but I didn't know anything about rush(I prolly would have at least registered for it if I did). Also, my friends were negative about it. I figured if my friends weren't doing it, we could all not do it together. However, two of them ended up taking snap bids/COb bids, and I was SO jealous. Anyways, formal rush as a sophomore was HARD. My friends told me I would automatically be cut from certain houses, but I have been Dean's List every semester, and I'm a cute enough girl, so I arbitrarily figured this would help. Anyways, let's just say I didn't have a full schedule for each round. I actually heard that the houses that took sophomores had pretty much picked out their sophomores already. One house that I knew a bunch of girls in automatically cuts sophomores(they have a rep for very viciously rejecting any sophomores). One girl I knew from a class who was a transfer actually got invited back to enough houses at least first round that she had to cut one, and another ended up falling through or dropping out. There were only two Rho Chi groups of sophomores, and I know most of us fell through or either dropped out. We had a sophomore bonus, which I didn't know about at the time. We won't have that next spring, cause basically the bigger houses benefitted and ended up over quota. The friends that I had that were Greek were in primarily two houses, and I had hallmates from freshman year in one house that I LOVED and then got cut from, I think in part because these two hallmates and I didn't know each other well, and they didn't get along with my friends on the hall. Since I didn't know girls in many other houses, I had only my stereotypes to rely on. I ended up loving some of the houses my friends had told me were snotty, bitchy, or even racist, but unfortunately I didn't have anyone in the house to vouch for me. For example, let's say one house is very exclusive. I had heard they were shallow and such. However, one of my sweetest hallmates, who moved to our hall that semester right around rush, was in this sorority. Also, my Rho Chi, who I thought was awesome and very similar to me, was in that house. The only girls I had known of in that house before DID fit the stereotype. I would advise anyone rushing as a sophomore to go to all the events they can before rush and meet at least one girl in each house. I'm in a house now with a lot of friends from freshman year, but some of my favorite girls are friends that I didn't have before rushing. It was one of my favorite houses going in, but I still wonder maybe what house I would have ended up in if I had rushed as a freshman. A friend who COB'd said that even though she loves her house, she knows she wouldn't have been there if she had formal rushed. Also, if I were rushing again, I would have gone out of my way at the houses I liked to emphasize that I really wanted to be there. I would have tried to explain why I really, really wanted to be in a sorority finally instead of going along with regular rush conversation. So that's my experience and advice...

bump -- several posts in this rush forum have inquired about this issue, so am bumping it up, along with another started by Carolina Cutie....

I have a question...

As I may have mentioned before, I work with high school seniors.

One of my former students dropped by school today and asked for my opinion on going through recruitment at The University of Florida as a sophomore. She's delaying recruitment for all the right reasons (mainly GPA), but I just don't know if that will ultimately effect her ability to join a sorority.

What do y'all think?

She's supposed to be stopped by to see me again next week, so I will relay any and all advice offered! :)

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this point. (Not trying to attack, this is just my experience with the issue).

My university is pretty heavily Greek (more than 1/3 of the students of a population of about 3500). I went through formal recruitment as a sophomore, and while I'm saying that sororities don't specifically cut women because they're not freshmen, there is a tendency for the older PNM's to get lost in the shuffle. Because (edited to fix: total instead of quota) is only 53 girls, sororities are very conscientious of taking "too many" of a certain class size. One of our top sororities was in the position going into my senior year that they lost 30 sisters through graduation. It was a tough loss for them, but they came back and did an excellent COR and Formal Recruitment.

I'm not saying that at all smaller schools that class year does matter, just that it did matter at my university.

polarpi,

I guess I should have worded that "schools with smaller Greek systems." I'm going from the vantage point of my school, where only about 10% of the 6000 students are Greek. In your situation, I totally agree with you.

Cluey,

You or your student might want to contact curlygirly because she rushed at UF as a sophomore last year.

University of North Florida is a mid sized school. there are over 13,000 students. i dont know the percentage of students that are greek. i do know that last year, about 150 girls went through rush with quota being in the forties (there are three sororities and a forth one coming in the fall). when it comes to class standing, all girls get a fair shot. that is good for me cause i am in the middle of sophmore year. there are a number of girls that i know who are in sororities that have been giving me great support. that helps so much.

Good idea! Thanks for the reminder! :)

curlygirly is outta town
 

Curlygirly has been studying in Spain for the summer...though I believe she's getting back within the next couple weeks.

As a UF alumna, I do know that you have the most opportunity if you rush as a freshman. Sororities limit the number of sophs & juniors that they take - and often, those spots go to legacies. The next way they determine is by GPA. Though you might have a 3.1 GPA as a soph, there are other sophs who have higher GPAs..

Hope this helps...at least till CG can answer.

Thanks for responding, kdonline!

I've really tried to give her a realistic look into what rushing at UF as a sophomore would be like, but I don't think I have changed her mind. She's a little bit younger than most freshmen, so that may be influencing her decision a little bit. Also, she has aspirations of medical school, so she wants to have the best grades possible.

I have no doubt that if she does decide to rush as a sophomore, that she will have a stellar GPA. She's a very bright young lady with a great personality, who would be an asset to any chapter. She did mention that she did have some family connections to a couple sororities, so that's at least in her favor.

I just wish I could help her more, but UF doesn't have a Gamma Phi Beta chapter :(

As long as being a junior isnt going to be a quick turn off then just be yourself....Tell them about your leadership skills already (I dont know any chapter that isnt looking for a great leader)...But if you just try to be yourself a chapter will see that and be excited to take you...

grrrr!
 

...wish things could be different but what would y'all say to a girl who will be a senior in college -- not one with a huge rush system like UGA or USC etc -- who said she would not even consider rushing due to her being a senior -- she is cute and has great grades and activities...and would be an asset to any sorority house...what a shame to have her miss this opportunity and "just" go for AI (don't get on me for that statement -- everyone knows I am almost as a big a fan of AI as Cutie Pie!!)

Don't y'all think that seniors should be free NPC-wide!

Re: grrrr!
 

Tell her that she may have only one year of being active as an undergrad...but she has a lifetime to be involved...and if she is going to live near her alma mater once she gets out, she may end up being as "active" as far as having fun with the sisters as some of the girls who are actually in college. That's what my little did.

I don't think the "free" thing should apply at all schools, since some chapters that struggle to make quota would be hurt by it. It should only apply to large systems with large rates of return.

Re: grrrr!
 

I agree. I think that juniors and seniors should be free to chapters who aren't exceeding total. And some schools, where sophmore rushing is tough, should think about that as well.

I rushed my second semester of college in the spring. One of my pledge brothers was a junior at the time. A guy in the pledge class before me was a junior when he rushed. Its not very often that anyone older than maybe a first semester sophomore will rush. But if anyone really wants to try and pledge a fraternity or sorority its not like you have to do anything more in rush except go and hang out with the people and see if it is for you or not.

For sororities, the system is gernally a lot different - most schools don't put men through such a competitive structured rush. GPBoy signed with SigEp the last week of his 4th year of school - he was active for a year, and never even got to finish going alum.

Sorority girls can go to medical school!

A KD from the UF chapter just finished her 2nd year @ the Univ. of Miami medical school. (Some of you all might know her as Miss Florida USA 2003) ;)

Yes they can! I believe her mother did just that when she was in college. Her parents are just worried about her adjusting to college with her age, not to mention the pressure of good grades to get into medical school.

I think her parents are playing a big role in this decision, so I've kind of backed off. She's such a sweet girl, though. I just don't want to see her get her feelings hurt.

I would say yes, because I am also a few credits shy of being a Junior, and believe me, my school stills considers me a Sophomore. So I would say you are a sophomore!

BUMP!

(because questions are being asked in Rush thread about this topic again....)

I know a lot of chapters at UGA automatically cut sophomores, juniors, and seniors(i've never heard of one going through) if they're not legacies. Most chapters here will only take non-freshman here if they are OUTSTANDING bc of the competitive nature of recruitment to begin with. That's not to say that chapters don't take them. We had 8 sophomores out of 60 girls in our new member class in 2002. They are usually good friends with numerous sophomore members, have excellent GPAs, very involved on campus, and REALLY want us as well.

Bumping this thread because rush is starting soon....I wish sophs and esp juniors weren't seen as such pariahs when they rush at some schools....

I also wonder if those who have read/posted on the thread about resignation etiquette might have an opinion of the likelihood of juniors to deactivate/resign vs freshman pledges....seems like those who rush as juniors know what they want and what they are getting onto and are less likely to quit.....comments anyone?

I agree, GPhiBLtColonel. If sisterhood is supposed to be for a lifetime, then nonfreshmen should be considered on par with freshmen. There is no guarantee that all freshmen will be around for 4 years, but the odds are better and I understand that. I would much rather find the best members/representatives/future supporters of my GLO, whatever their year, than just look at freshmen.

I guess it boils down to numbers. When a PNM is expected to be around for only 2 years as opposed to 4, then your GLO will graduate more members sooner . . . unless you replace the ones graduating with nonfreshmen! ;)

Since this was brought up again...

I rushed at Indiana University almost eleven years ago (AAAAAAH!) as a sophomore. (The hypercompetitiveness of IU formal rush has been discussed here several times) At the time, some chapters (Alpha Phi, Delta Gamma, Phi Mu and one more I can't remember...I want to say Kappa Delta but I could be wrong) cut sophomores and above in the first round. There were only two or three chapters which pledged juniors, and if you were a senior, forget it. I knew a few girls who did pledge as sophomores...chapters took maybe one to three per pledge class, if that. (I dropped out of rush midway through.)

I did think it was kind of a shame that girls who probably would have made wonderful sisters got cut just because of age. Not everyone finishes college in four years, and what of those people who join as freshmen and transfer, deactivate, or graduate early?

My Alpha Phi Omega chapter had no such requirement. I did know people who pledged their final semester senior year and made wonderful brothers. I pledged as a junior and we had freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors in my pledge class. Of course APO is a bit different since we are a service fraternity. Anyone who came to rush and wanted to pledge could pledge, and everyone who completed the pledge program and did the required service hours was initiated.

I go to school with Sugar and Spice at UW-Madison, and I have to agree that those who take sophs and juniors do get awesome pledge classes! I know in my house, our fall pledges have a few sophomores (one who is seriously "Super Pledge") and my lil sis happens to be a junior and she is one of the most amazing people that I know in there! Her grade-status did not hurt her though at all because she told me she preffed one of the more popular sororities here (which I also happen to know took sophomores). I definitely think that it can hurt girls if they're not freshmen but if they're awesome girls, they stand out and have a chance of getting into the top houses on campus. The only bad thing, is that my lil sis told me that as a junior, she relates better to girls already in the house and not very easily to her pledge class.

All I'm going to say is that a strong rushing chapter offers bids to mainly freshmen. That way, you have them for four years. Sure, pledge a couple of truly outstanding upperclassmen, but the great majority should be freshmen (if you're a top chapter).

when i go through c.o.b. in the spring, i will be technically a junior. wow that sounds weird.

:rolleyes: I think you have to keep in mind that what a "strong rushing chapter" is depends entirely on the school. Sure, at Alabama, LSU, IU, you need freshman for the finances and the show. At smaller schools, you can get away with taking mostly upperclassmen. My chapter pledges very few freshmen and we manage to have fabulous pledge class retention and stay at the average chapter size just fine. I'd rather pledge juniors every year and have girls who geniunely want to be in the house, than some freshman who rushed us because we had cuter coats or a prettier flower or boyfriends in the right fraternity.

GeekyP, what you ahve said is so true!:)

The mind set is get New Frosh Candidates so they can be there for 4/5 years.:(

The idea of getting more mature people to rush is:

They have a mind set for study.
Are a lot more mature.
Have a better idea for what they want.
Are more effecient to do things like hold and office, make grades, and participate in extracurricular activites.

What is funny, is that there is only maybe a 2 year spread between them.:D

When people rush as a junior, you KNOW they are doing it for the right reasons. Freshmen drop a lot, whether it's before or after initiation. This isn't specific to my chapter, I've discussed it with friends at quite a few schools. Freshmen can definitely be rushing for the right reasons, but they can also be rushing because their mom/friend/sister/boyfriend/cow wants them to, or because their roommate is and they felt pressured. Later, they'll get in and they'll realize they didn't like it, or that they picked the wrong house during rush, etc. I think there are under 5 girls in my chapter right now who rushed as freshmen and I don't think anybody would consider us a weak chapter - we went onto that campus when no other nationals had the guts to. I just get really really sick of this idea that you MUST have freshmen. Plus, quite frankly, one think I like about sophomores is that you've seen them for a year. All you really know about the freshmen from Podunk, Iowa, is that she's from Podunk, Iowa, and lives in X dorm and is an ElEd major. You don't know if she's going to dance on the tables at your banquet or drink in your letters.

Not to mention freshmen transferring or quitting. Either they leave after the first semester cause they miss the hometown honey, or they leave after second semester because they've realized that their 18 year dream of being a (insert career here) is something that they actually have no desire to do and the only reason they're at XYZ University is to do it.

NutBrnHair and GeekyPenguin both bring up very good points.

Freshmen are definitely desirable because it's more likely that they'll be around for the full 4 years. They might depledge, deaffiliate, transfer away, drop out, etc., but a junior is definitely going to be gone in 2-3 years (generally speaking). Freshmen who do stick around for 4 years bring some continuity, and of course, 4 years' worth of dues.

But that doesn't mean a chapter should exclusively take freshmen. It just plain doesn't make sense to cut someone who's smart, outgoing, interested in community service, etc. simply because she's a junior - especially if you don't see those qualities among the freshmen.

This is why I like the idea of a separate junior/senior quota. This way, a chapter can take the smart, outgoing junior without having to "give up a spot" that would otherwise go to a freshman.

4 years or 4ever?
 

It seems that for a fair number of NPC orgs, once college is over, they don't really participate in Greek Life that much. I acknowledge that some GC'ers may be exceptions. Here's a questions, if Alum involvement were stressed, and all the girls were encouraged to go Alum and stay involved, would a girl's class standing be as big of an issue when she rushed/COB'ed?

While theses orgs are "collegiate" in nature, it seems such a waste to let so many positive women go merely b/c they will only be able to contribute on a collegiate level for a short time.

It really has more to do with revenue (4 years dues vs. 2 years dues) and keeping the house filled than with anything the members do or don't do as alumnae.

I agree with 33girl. I think that collegiate members, advisors and the people at HQ are probably more concerned with keeping the houses filled and the dues being paid.

It's unfortunate, though, because to many of us membership is for life. It would be hard to change, though, because it's just do darn expensive to keep these big huge mansions up and running. The organizations don't get very much money from alumnae (I think my yearly dues are approximately $30) and if alumnae ever donate, I think they usually donate to the foundation and not the organization itself.

I don't like that so much of it has to do with money, but what can you do?

I can understand the economics of needing enough girls to fill the house so you can pay the bills. I am sure there are huge chapter differences based on university as well.

Here's another question: Why can't houses take more girls than can live in the house? I am guessing that at a fair number of schools, the juniors live off campus already. If a junior wants to join, but there's no room in the house, why not let her pay a "live-out" rate?????

DUES!!!!
 

Wow! I hate to post again so quick, but I didn't realize your alum dues were so cheap! I'm jealous. Including chapter and national dues, my alum dues are at least $300 per year.