I think in the beginning of this show everyone was horrified at the prospect of putting an MTV twist on a sorority. It was a given that some of the people who pledged would not have gone through the efffort if it wasnt for the cameras. From the commentaries given by Mara and Jordan on mtv.com - they said the editing was accurate. The only thing not shown was that they actually went to class and studied etc.

I do want to say that the sisters of Sigma did do some things that were positive for the Greek system. In my opinion they really squashed the idea that some people still have - that if you are in a sorority - you are drunk all the time - and you sleep around. Whenever the cameras were out on the town with everyone, the sisters were dressed appropriately, they were not intoxicated, and they really were shown having fun with their sisters. The pledges on the other hand were the ones getting drunk and dancing in a way that really wasnt tasteful outside a strip club

The sisters also demonstrated a lot of class - and I think represented their house well. Of course there were some bad apples who appeared on camera to be jealous and hateful - but the majority of girls did seem to be great.

All in all I think the ladies of Sigma did a good job in showing the world another side of sororities - and if it hadnt been for a few bad sisters, and a few more bad pledges - this whole thing would have been very successful :)

On the last episode - I was not surprised about Jordan - however I was very shocked that Mara dropped. I am disappointed that they did it in the middle of dinner before initiation - but it appeared that nobodys evening was ruined.

Man, y'all are killing me!!! Why you guys are all the sudden applauding the Amanda-Candace friendship is beyond me. Now true enough, Candace DID seem somewhat more mature in the last episode. But anyone that watched the marathon this weekend should recall the KISS! I am sorry, but that is a deal breaker for me. Amanda has found someone else to latch onto.

As far as Mara, I don't think she was following Jordan so much as she was just overwhelmed by the whole thing. If anything, Jordan de-pledging probably just made Mara more comfortable since she wouldn't be alone. Jordan on the other hand tried to recruit people to drop with her, and notice who she appealed to first! lol. She almost had Amanda too til a Sister got in her ear. Amanda did not grow a backbone, she just went with the last thing she was urged to do.

Although I think it was wrong of the sisters to judge Jordan based on hearsay and also to confront her so disrespectfully after her nana's death, I DO NOT agree that they broke her down. lol! If something like THAT breaks you down, maybe you ought to reevaluate your personal strength! But overall, even though I am going against the grain here, Jordan was still my favorite. She seemed more genuine (personality-wise, forget intentions) than most of the other girls. Drama? Yeah, but after this experience she might just reevaluate that too.

I think that all of the people on this board who are being so hard on Jordan and Mara need to sit back and think about how their lives would look on camera. Are you a saint who has never made mistakes or become emotional at times?

If we were judged by our behavior in college, everyone would be critical of us, too. The women on these boards who are so hard on the pledges were obviously the "bully actives" in their sororities - your insecurities are very transparent.

It's easy to judge people and make hypocritical statements when you are so far removed the situation. Casual judgements and sweeping generalizations are the attidutes that give sorority women a bad name. If you were a senior in high school, would you want to join a chapter if you read some of the statements on this board, I wouldn't.

Here's the thing.....

Jordan punked the big sisters the ENTIRE show and they allowed it. LOL. If I would have heard one more, "Well, maybe we should have a talk with her", I was going to scream. How much talking can you do? Clearly, this girl had no desire to join SAEPi and wasn't interested in bonding or following any type of rules. Kick her out already. I know they didn't want to be "exclusive", but dang. Are they that hard up for members? Jordan never took responsibility for her actions. The whole show consisted of her waiting for someone to apologize to her for some offense or another. Dude, shutup already about the apologies. I'm still cracking up at how she played them the entire time, with no intentions of ever initiating, and then upstaged them at their own ceremony. Oh, the comedy.

I wasn't feeling Mara at all until the end when she said something to the effect that she made mistakes, pissed some people off and because of that, she had to deal with the wrath and consequences that come with breaking the rules. I still don't see how she was treated so bad, but at least she realized that any "bad" treatment she received was in direct response to her actions.

I agree with you. I think that I would of rather see Mara and Jordan join before Amanda and Candance. I really don't think that the chapter would benefit much from Amanda and Candance being apart. They just seem really flaky to me.

I've only been watching the show on and off, but I did catch last night's episode.

Who the h*** waits until initiation night to make some pseudo-grand speech that is embarassing? That was so low of both of them. They shouldn't have even shown up for the dinner.

I did like the blond girl's comment about "it's just a sorority." I think there are a lot of people who can take sorority life WAAAAY too seriously, and whoever this blond was had the right idea.

Jen

Oh please. As much as I defend Jordan and other people who I feel are being uneccessarily picked on, I get so tired of these comments. No one on GC has voluntarily allowed their lives to be taped, no. But when you sign up for an MTV reality show, best be prepared for what ensues! Now do I agree with all of the cattyness? No. But I also don't think that just because these girls signed up for a freaking MTV "REALITY" show VOLUNTARILY that we should automatically bow our heads in sympathy when the inevitable happens. I mean it is on national TV, it is fodder for discussion. I agree with you about the judgment part, but the overall tone of your post is like, "don't talk mean about them! It is not the pledge's fault they tried to get into a sorority to get some airtime on MTV!" Except it totally is. And "no, don't say mean things about Sigma! They didn't try to make Greek Life look bad to everyone not familiar with it!" Except they totally did.

Again, don't get me wrong. I was one of the main people on the millions of other SL threads telling people to not be so catty and judgmental. But I really don't think this particular thread has crossed that line. Get over it.

I agree that it was tacky and inappropriate for them to come to the dinner, donned in black and make their "speech." Although, it would have been a drama bubble for Sigma to deal with if they had done it quietly or with Becca because everyone would have been speculating and gossiping about it so at least everyone else who is affected first hand got to see and hear it for themselves - but some of the Sigmas drove me crazy by complaining to Becca about "sisters" concerns, never claiming their concerns for themselves. I was surprised Mara didn't initiate and it was interesting that she got up first to speak - I honestly don't think Jordan would have done it publicly if Mara wasn't a part of the production - she's loud but she's really not that strong! All in all I think the experience is going to be good for Candace - it will give her something constructive to do with her energy and unlike some people who don't have a personality until they pledge, she will be better channeling her energy. I thought they started with 20 - 6 in the house and 14 outside - how did they get down to 10??

Just a side note and maybe because I'm older, but the stuff some of the sisters and pledges had on seemed inappropriate for an initiation ceremony (tube dresses, tank tops, capris, etc.), but that's just me!

hmmm...my thoughts on the situation...
 

i think that i had most of those girls pegged from the beginning...with one or two exceptions...

jessica-the one who truly reflected what sorority sisters, let alone the sigmas should be...although, she did have moments when her "i'm the peacemaker, why are you hurting me" attitude urked me.

dee dee-she kept a low profile..she wasn't all in the cameras acting a fool..she seemed to know & remember her true purpose of being in that house & school.

candace-definitely trying to be on tv..mtv, to be exact...heck, she didn't even understand the basic background of the sorority that she was going to pledge into...her unruly & unsisterly behaviour (kissing your pledge sister's crush) is & was unacceptable....but, her dad wasn't playing around..so, it kind of shows that she's probably just acting out b/c she doesn't have supervision.

amanda-i don't want to say that she's not cute, something's going on with her face that i can't put my finger on...this maybe why she's so insecure...she's like the friend fan...whoever she thinks is cool, she becomes their biggest fan...following like a puppy until they get tired of her.

the exceptions:
mara-at the beginning, i was like she seems to be one of the few who really understands what the sorority is about & will probably represent herself & the sorority well on national tv...WRONG!!! mara became a friend fan...jordan's..shoot, she probably thinks that she & jordan are really friends...it would be interesting to see how long that "friendship" with jordan will last...maybe until she does something that jordan doesn't like & doesn't get around to giving her the demanded apology fast enough.

jordan-i liked her..she seemed like a cool person...not so much a sorority person, but cool anyway...however, she claims that she has a hardshell b/c of the so many times that she's been hurt, blah blah blah..but, bat an eye, sneeze wrong, don't jump or ask how high when she says jump & it's "you f*cked up!! you owe me an apology!! right now!!" i laughed when she was at her mom's...her mom knows the deal & was like "it's always drama with you, jordan"...jordan is totally full of it! she thought she could manipulate her original friend fan into dropping...that didn't work...so, she moved onto her newest friend fan. she continued to try to manipulate amanda when she gave her stupid & mindless speech at the dinner...talkin' about "losing a best friend"...she'd said Amanda wasn't her best friend & smirked about it when mara was saying that she probably thinks she is...so, the boo hoo hoo was all for show.

i can understand that the sigma sisters didn't want to change their way of doing things & become something that they weren't, but they should not have allowed the dumb & dumber show to proceed...they should have stopped mara as soon as it was clear where she was going...it was inappropriate...that was not the time, nor the place...they should have said, well thanks for the interest & your honesty--please leave...jordan shouldn't have been allowed in there at all..she hadn't taken the test!! i hope the sigmas learned something & will maybe revamp their way of doing things...you don't have to become this all exclusive group, but there should be a clause that gives them an out if need be...which i thought that that's what the point system (merits & demerits) was for...but, that must have been a very liberal system, as well.

**the attire: oooh, yes, i totally forgot to make a comment on that..some of the sisters had on those thong sandals..i was like are they getting pedicures in that room or something??...the outfits covered the gamut...which is slightly weird for what is suppose to be their "most sacred" ritual ceremony imo...

Well said, but I never wouldda put my ass on TV for the nation to watch either. I know enough to keep my biznass to myself.

Re: hmmm...my thoughts on the situation...
 

I also thought it was odd that the camera crew was right outside the door of their ritual room!! In my opinion no one who is not a Sigma should have been within 500 ft of there. Seemed very informal to me, but I guess everybody does their own thing anyway.

It's obvious MTV focused heavily on the renegades. I thought the last episode showed the bonding in sorority life much better than the previous episodes. They gave Jordan and Maya waaaay too many chances and warnings to fit into the group. This simply set up the opportunity for her to make her whiney speech at the end and to try to dissuade others from joining.

I'm sort of sorry to see that all of them didn't make it. I never felt any of them didn't deserve a sisterhood, but I do feel this may not have been a good fit. I wish Mara had joined, though. I really liked her. The one thing that I don't like is that the editing (of course) made it seem as if the chapter didn't do any sisterhood things. I know that we all were probably with our new member classes as a whole a heck of a lot more than these women appeared to be. I only saw partying and drinking and slapping and bitching. I wish they had shown some sort of love and affection. Also, if the cookie baking was one of the few attempts of the chapter to bond with the new member class, that was really piss poor. I really hope they did learn from this experience.

Sigma needs to change some pictures on their web site. They have Jordan in the picture of the recently initated sisters' picture

Re: Final Episode
 

I could NOT agree with you more!!! I hadnt ever watched the show until they had the marathon leading up to the end.... and i was steadily getting more and more PO'ed as i watched it!!!!

the back talking, the breaking the rules, the "attitude of entitlement" (thinking the sisters owned them something), the drinking was ridiculous and the TOTAL lack of 'hood was more than i could take. them girls should have been dropped on day one.

i'm SOOOOOO glad i am what i am and proud of the process that got me here!

Okay, first I just want to say that I agree with what a lot of you have said here. I also found it incredible disrespectfull that Jordan got up and said those things at the dinner. She's just permanently out for as much attention as she can draw to herself. I mean please, she didn't have to call her mom for directions to the funeral in the middle of a friggin meeting. Then, to get up and just sh** all over what the actives had tried to create at the Blue and Gold dinnner.... Selfish, petty and mean.

However, I think the actives realize that they did a lot of things wrong here. Becca even said so while talking to one of the pledges before initiation. What some of us may be forgetting here is that many of us joined 100+ year old sisterhoods that have lots of experience and thousands of members to fall back on. This is a fairly new little local who is pretty much figuring it out as they go along. Yes, they need to figure out where they stand on the whole selection process vs. accepting girls that obviously don't belong there debate. They need to develop a policy of dealing with sisters that don't live up to their ideals and enforce them with some consistency. They need to do dozens of things differently. To their credit, they are recognizing this and trying to go forward. I really do like Leslie, Leah and Becca and I hope they can turn this experience into a learning opportunity and grow stronger from it.

___

Another personal story:
After they closed the door to go into ritual my boyfriend rolled his eyes. A few minutes later....

Him: Do you guys have some super secret ritual.
Me: Yes
Him: Well what is it
Me: If I told you it wouldn't be super secret.
Him: Tell me
Me: No
Him: Tell me
Me: No

(Yeah - It's like living with a five year old.)

He got mad and threatened not to talk to me until I told him. Then he tried pouting about me "keeping secrets from him."
Such a baby. :rolleyes:

OH My GOD I agree!!!!!!!! But you know what perhaps that is just the differeance. Capris in a ceremony...are you kidding??????

If anything this show has made me appreciate MORE AND MORE the process I went through. As I look at thier experience I realized that if MTV had of filmed my process there was probably NOTHINg that they would have been allowed to film except the Rush....public services....and probably.....well that is about it.

I dont know if these girls realize how EASY they had it. They didn't have to give up luxuries as simple as....hmmmmm SMILING or..........hmmmmm Talking..........Or hmmmmmmm Your Free Will to wear what you want every day of your process.

They needed to get over the DRAMA.

Uh, who on earth gives up smiling, talking, or picking your own clothes during pledging? No one I know! I wouldn't call that "easy," I'd call it common sense. No GLO is worth that, and it's not what they're about - "Oh, let's join and become CLONES! Cranky, quiet clones!"

I dont expect you to understand...which is why the very nature of many orgs are different.

Like I said...........This Bull just made me appreciate MY process even more. ONE that MANY would NOT Be able to complete. CERTAINLY not those scrubs. Which is why I stated in an earlier post........DID THE SHOW REFLECT MORE REALITY THAN SOME ORGS CARE TO ADMIT.

I couldn't agree more with you. And after hearing about what some of the so called newer pledge processes are like, it makes me appreciate mine and my time as an active all the more.

I give the Sigmas a lot of credit for learning as they're growing, admitting their mistakes and not being afraid to be real about it. I'm going to miss being a vicarious part of their organization, and I wish them the best.

And I'm especially proud of Candace, for someone who very obviously pledged to be on MTV, I think she learned more than any of the others what it really means to be part of a greek organization, and what being a sisterhood means. Her final comments about how all of a sudden she "got it" - I can totally relate to that, it was me.

I'm willing to bet she'll be one of the best sisters to come out of that organization when all is said and done.

Candace may have "gotten it" about sisterhood, but she apparently didn't pay attention when she received her badge. In the final scene (chapter meeting) she wore her badge on the right side, while everyone else wore it on the left side.

some notes about SL-

i was really disappointed with the finale. as a side note in mine and jordan's defense, she and i were the pledges with the most pledge points, and two of only 5 who got the required 200 points. so for all the talk of disloyalty and lack of dedication, we were there more than many of the others. just wanted to add that, a bit sad mtv didn't find that important enough to mention.

my decision to quit had nothing to do with jordan's decision to quit. how could i have joined and looked myself in the mirror, let alone expected these women to respect me knowing full well they were going to see how disrespectful we were of the organization? i am shocked candace and amanda stayed in knowing full well they had lied to the faces of the sisters on multiple occasions, in my opinion, that is not sisterhood. we did things that hurt them, and whether we felt we were wrong or not, their feelings were hurt and i knew that. also, it was very evident to me at the end that many of the sisters didn't want us there.

i told becca i didn't want to cross at initiation, she gave me the go ahead to speak in front of the sorority. my intention was not to ruin initiations. but given my track record with leaving my actions up to sigma interpretation, i felt i needed them to hear the words, from my mouth, and see that i cared. initiation was the only time at that point. it would have been wrong to be a part of their secret ritual knowing i had no intention on joining, and this was not something i wanted becca to voice for me, nor something to be told through email.

i was also surprised that a woman joining a jewish sorority made compared crossing with church experience. i just found that a bit humourous based on all the "are you jewish" stuff we saw in the beginning.

so, i have a question, as a sisterhood, how would you all address some of the behaviors seen on the show, by both pledges and sisters? how do you rebuild that trust once it it lost? just out of curiousity???

thanks for all the commentary, i appreaciate it.

Question for Mara
 

Mara,

Wow, I just found out yesterday that you live right by where I work in Bethesda, that is a really small world.

I have a question that has been bugging me, and I'm trying to ask this as tactfully as possible.

On one hand, I appreciate that on camera you had said that you realize that you did something wrong and deserved the reprimand regarding the formal, and that you accepted that, etc.

But what really bothers me is some of the things that you have said on the boards about the Sigmas, and your fellow pledge sisters, specifically Amanda and Candace. Now of course, there is no way to know for sure that it was really you - I was especially taken aback by the mean and vindictive things that were said in the yahoo groups chat of the Sorority Life group, I dont' know for sure if it was you or if it was someone pretending to be you.

I also saw some really nasty stuff on the MTV board, and I have to say the whole thing was really disturbing, what I've seen on the message boards is a lot more disturbing than anything I saw on television.

I don't know that this was really a question, but it is a general comment that I needed to get off my chest. I'm looking forward to reading the second parts of what both you and Jordan had to say on the mtv site.

Actually in my organization the associate members can't drink at all during the pledging process. So 95% of what happened on that show would of been eliminated. Also, if someone in a pledge class is acting in a way that we think is not representative of our organization, the ENTIRE pledge class is talked to. I really didn't like certain people getting singled out. It wasn't right. Also you don't wait until the end of the process to rebuild trust. A lot of times pledges lose trust because they don't understand why things function they way they do, but most of the time it take you to actually cross into the sisterhood to understand everything. It's a totally different ball game when you are actually in the organization.

Why would that surprise you - despite the sorority's open policy, Candace was NOT Jewish so I would only expect her to make an analogy based on her own experience and I thought it was stated in a way that a lot of people would understand especially because it focused on God, not Jesus!

As for Mara's question, I think that chapters have a responsibility to make all of their new members feel welcome -- when people feel they are being "tested" it is hard to develop a sense of trust. As zchi said, individual women shouldn't be cornered if there are concerns, a pledge class should be addressed. It seem like there was a lot of segregation between the pledges and the actives (specifically the rock-moving activity), both sides should make efforts to include one another.

I respect and admire any sorority that abstains from drinking during their pledge period. However, at some chapters this may not be a realistic expectation for some organizations -- some houses have pledge classes that range from 50-70 women. It may not be possible to monitor or keep track of the behavior of this many women (nor does it create a sense of trust) - it is more realistic and healthy to teach women about drinking in moderation.

Dry pledging is hazing. It makes the pledges comply with something that the sisters do not. However, if all the pledges are under 21 and you have a directive that no one in the sorority is allowed to drink underage, it is a fait accompli. (translating into English) Of-age pledges cannot be made to completely abstain from alcohol if of-age sisters do not.

mara, do the sigmas use the term "crossing" or is that just from your own experience? I thought only HBGLO's and MCGLO's used that term as a rule. Plus I didn't hear anyone say it on the show.

What is "crossing"? I do not understand.

blah blah blah blah

I'm so sick of politically correct "hazing"

The way things stand, is there anything that isn't considered hazing these days?

I am so glad I went to school when pledging was pledging.

shoot stacy, I'm just trying to make it possible for poor Candace to have a double or 2! LOL :p

my point is that people get all bent out of shape when pledges have to do interviews, signatures, scavenger hunts etc but then when you say "dry pledgeship" people are like "oh, yes, good idea." What if you said the pledges couldn't smoke, wear makeup, drive or any other legal activity - I think not. ASA actually declared dry pledgeship to be hazing somewhere back in the mid 70's.

I'm from the school that thinks pledges shouldn't be drinking, period. We weren't allowed to drink, and for a large part of when I was active, pledges weren't allowed to drink.

I also don't see anything wrong with interviews, signatures, scavenger hunts, or anything of the like.

What is ASA?

I pretty sure "crossing" means crossing over and becoming a part of the greek community. Although I must agree w/ the person who posted the comment about not hearing the term when not in reference to an HBGLO.

stacydphie

As a fellow DPhiE, I am somewhat challenged by your attitude.... can you elaborate a little?

Iris

yes NOWorNEVER, that's what I meant.

um, stacy, ASA is Alpha Sigma Alpha...a member of NPC...founded in 1901.

No, I don't intend to get into specifics, but suffice to say that when I pledged in 1990, things were different.

A lot of the politically correct stuff that I'm seeing just irritates me, and a lot of what is considered to be hazing by today's standards was completely acceptable when I was in school.

Ah, gotcha, thanks!

stacydphie
 

PM'd you...

Iris

Our rules about alcohol state that houses must be dry, rush events must be dry, and nobody underage can drink at Kappa functions that do have alcohol.

The statement that forcing NMs to do anything that actives do not have to do (or probhibiting them from doing anything that actives may) is tantamount to hazing is correct.

As Becca said, most of the sisters are not used to having anyone other than freshmen pledging. Therefore, some of "our" pledges' attitudes and behaviours regarding alcohol took many of the sisters by surprise. And I don't know this for certain, but I would hope that the Sigma house is dry as well and not just the pledge house.

I don't mean to get into a whole hazing conversation here (since there is a board for that), but if I was hazed, I would have left. I went through recruitment as a sophomore and was already very invovled on campus. I didn't have time to run around getting signatures in books or being called in the middle of the night for activities. I don't feel like I missed out on getting to know the sisters or anything like that because we did other things where we were all put on an equal level.

Okay, so there's my hazing speech -- just a little. As for Sorority Life hazing, yeah, the rock thing was definately wrong, and I agree that making pledges refrain from drinking is hazing if it's not being done to sisters who are under 21.

Jen

Most sororities and fraternities have some kind of protocol or procedure in place to try to ensure that such (apparently) drastic behavioral situations just don't happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because things DO happen. Of course they do. There's always someone somewhere who takes great pride in nabbing the one guy you're really hooked on, or maybe has an addiction problem. There are girls who are virtually flunking out of school, who's gotten herself in nasty financial problems, who takes great pride in and encourages all of the "drama" involved in everything the chapter does. Don't try to tell me it doesn't happen, because it happens with women in general, sorority member or not. The difference is that the overwhelming majority of the time it's a private thing, not splashed all over national television for anyone and everyone to see.

There's some type of officer position in every GLO I'm familiar with that handles these standards and sisterhood issues, both good and bad. This office may be named Chapter Standards, Member Relations, Vice President of whatever, Chapter Relations, Standards Chair, Standards Board, Member At Large...there's probably dozens of officer titles for that sister who is responsible to educate and moderate any "standards" issues. There usually is, however, a very clear communication of expectations and those standards to be maintained very very early in the New Member or Associate period. From what we saw on the show, it didn't appear as if the Sigma new members were educated on the sorority standards, expectations and beliefs.

How would I address some of the behaviors as portrayed on the show? If someone had slapped another, initiated or not, it would have been taken to my organization's equivalent of standards faster than you could have blinked. If it was a new member, she most likely would have been depledged. If someone had been hitting on a guy that another sister had confided an attraction to, ditto. I'm from the olden days, so when it comes to alcohol issues it would have been handled differently than a chapter would today. For the most part, there's no alcohol involved in chapter sponsored events anymore and if there is, the procedures must be followed to the letter or you run the risk of losing your charter.

As for building or rebuilding trust, it's not going to happen overnight. First, you must have the desire to go forward. If people don't want to resolve differences, clear the air and move on together it'll be extremely difficult to accomplish. Luckily, most of the time it happens. You just have to be willing to start over and not assume the worst. A GLO has those treasured rituals, histories, good common memories and more to help them remember why they are there and what can happen in the future.

I know, I'm rambling again. I wonder if things weren't as bad with Sigma as MTV portrayed it to be at times. I wonder if the new members really were truly interested in joining a sorority. I wonder why so many upperclasswomen were interested in joining a sorority with such a specific emphasis, such as Sigma. Why didn't they approach Sigma before their junior or senior year? I do wonder, honestly, if anyone pledged Sigma just to star on a MTV show and get free housing for a quarter. I think most GLOs have gotten far away from "Pledges" and "Members." No one should have to prove themselves worthy of a GLO, the fact that the GLO invited you to become a new member should indicate worthiness. Yes, I think that there has to be some kind of education process so that the new members are prepared, ready and committed to be initiated. But it shouldn't be (IMHO!) an "us" vs. "them" process. We saw an awful lot of "us" vs. "them" and very little of "Sigma" as a group on the show. I'm sure that can't be real, or Sigma probably would have never survived as long as they have.

Christin