To TKEMZ and Sig Guy, If I said I was gay would you dislike me?:confused:

I wont say I was on the phone to a TKE who has more Knowledge about your Fraternity than you ever thought about knowing!

Sig Chi Guy, What the Fu%^ over!

No I am not Gay But also got off of the phone with a LXA Brother Who Called me from NY!

Yes we are Brothers and talk a lot because we have respect for each other! This goes for the same of talking to an Old TKE who happens to be a very good freind of mine.

OK I do not like Red Heads as was married to one once! I do not like Asians as Dated one once and broke my heart, dont like Southern Girls as lived with one and got screwed by her!

What the hell is wrong with you all!?

You think your tighty whitey is so good looking that some FAG is going to Butt Munch Ya!?

Hell If I was was one of the Many good looking ladys on GC, I would not give either one of you a second look!

Get off of your asses and look at the real world! Jono is a Brother that I am Proud to call my Brother and always will!

Well the real reason I like him is that he is shorter than me! :D

If none of this made sense then I did my job here!:cool:

Shit runs down hill, then you figure out you are at the bottom of the food chain!:D

UNFSigmaChi-
Please stop referring to Kappa Delta. KD has nothing to do with any of this. Please do not use "AOT" and "Ta Kala Diokomen". You don't know what they mean, and they're not yours to use. Abusing another sorority is not needed here.
Just because one of our members has the guts to stand up to you and disagree with you does not give you license to abuse me and every other Kappa Delta.
Moderators, please end this. I am offended by this. Not by the topic, but how he is using my sorority in his posts.

You folks crack me up! It sounds like you're scripting a new sit-com. I'm laughing my butt off here.

Who's this character who keeps writing "yall"? I don't think he's a TKE at all - just someone trying to give them a bad rep.

I am gay and all my brothers know it. One of them I haven't seen for 15 years just visited me for a week and we did hug a few times before turning in for the night.

My nephew left today after staying for the weekend and we hugged too. He's a TKE (a REAL TKE) He raises 30K - 50K a year for scholarships, and I admire him for doing that.

Next week my Little Brother is going to visit. Maybe with his wife and two kids (his daughter who just turned 21 is my Godchild).

As for me, I'm the president of our alumni association. The past pesident was gay, and another current officer is also.

So what's the problem?

Is it because I'm a Lambda Chi?

Jono

Thank you Tom,

It's nice to know that 30+ years ago we both made the best decision. See you at Founders' Day!

Jono

This is all crap
 

Firts off Jono, I am a real TKE Mu Zeta 894, and Mr Earp I know Eric Conard, the man you are reffering to. So what if yall know old TKEs. I and my Chapter are entitled to our own opinions. That is what this whole discussion started about. Whether we had the right to exclude a potential pledge if he was Gay. And all of the sudden you have 3 or 4 sorority girls going off on us saying that we arent representing our Founders and are not following the ideals of our fraternitys.......and they arent members of our fraternitys..........Well none of that really matters because Sig chi and myself are both senior members in our Fraternitys and we dont want gay members in, so they wont be joining TKE at Nicholls, and Sigma Chi at North Florida........So deal with it and respect ourt opinions that we dont like gay people.
And really to act like this doesnt normally go on everywhere is a joke, I see it at every Greek system I visit.
Oh and to say the term Red neck is derogatory is a joke, just like coon ass is derogatory to Acadians........And I am a coon ass!!!!!
And if yall look at most sororitys in the south they dont have Black members, why because they are still racist. But my chapter is not racist, just homophobic...............So yall should be happy we got halfway politically correct for yall...........Blaise

To Pbear, and Tom
 

I was reffering to the fact that every org discriminates, and in the south its usually against black people. For the kd girl to get all over me about not wanting gay people in my fraternity is a joke because I am sure her chapter doesnt even try to recruit black women, and wouldnt give a black girl a bid. And Mr Earp no I would not hate you, I just wouldnt want you in TKE.........

Hey TKEmz894,

Some night I meet you in a alley, my face scare you, belly bump you. Then I beat yo ass. Next day, "Some fag done beat me up!"

Sorry folks, just thought I'd speak in terms he might understand. I apologize but...

This is too much fun.

Jono

your funny
 

Jono by dark alley do you mean the wrong end of Bourbon Street? The gay end? Wouldnt be caught dead there..... and by beat me up do you mean slap me with your purse or hit me with your spiked heel................Why dont you and the rest of the morons posting against me and Sig Chi Guy, go and cruise the mall or something, or better yet you can teach them ho to give BJs............

If anyone here is being silly, it's you. No dude, I don't carry a purse. Or a stick or a gun.

I can just beat the crap out of anyone who gets in my way. Usually it's not necessary.

Jono

Off topic, but....
 

OK, I've had it. I've just had it. I am so sick and tired of this small vocal minority of posters that start out by disagreeing with each other. Then it starts to get personal. Then suddenly their posts are out to offend anyone and everyone.

If you can't be an adult and discuss your differences in a civil and reasonable tone, then I don't think you need to be posting here. There's enough drama in our daily lives, do we need it here too?

And for God's sake, if you have a disagreement with someone, take it to PM.

Re: Off topic, but....
 

Yes, I agree!

I thank you for your input, but I really want to beat this homophobe's butt from here to kingdom come. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

This guy needs some talking to, and I'm talking to him.

What's wrong with that? That's what this forum is for.

Jono

Cat got your tongue?
 

In regards to LawGirl, don't get your panties in rut over having fun in discussing pressing issues in the greek system. The whole point of the internet is to be able to discuss issues in a enviroment free of political correctness that lawyers and politicians have thrust into any debate held in public. I can say whatever I want. The debate wasn't personal until they made it personal by attacking the merits of my views and fraternity. To all the girls (this includes you Jono) that I have offended, you deserve it. Is having another shopping buddy in a fraternity really worth all this arguing? Do you actually think you changed anyones mind? In the words of my father- "Bowel movements are only supposed to go one way."

P.S.- Anyone would like to start a thread about feminists, which by the way is real cute, baby.

Talking to me?
 

So Jono, Are we talkin?what are we gonna talk about next? How to hang drapes, or maybe showtoons!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I was not going to reply until I saw the last thing you wrote. I know the history of our houses and how they tie together but that gives you ABSOUTELY NO RIGHT to use AOT and our motto, you have no idea what they mean, so how can you use them?! I would NEVER do that to your ritual but then again I have standards and morals that I follow. I'm going to be completely honest with everyone here. I have a very close friend who is openly gay, when I saw your first post it really hit home with me so I guess I was writing in his defense. I just wish people would be more open to everyone. It is nobody's place to judge anyone. EVER. If you go by Christian morals. So I am formally apologizing to you (UNFSigmaChi) for saying you're narrowinded. that was wrong of me to do. As for beng able to "tolerate" gays and lesbians why not try to be a little more accepting? That is what we're here for right?! I thought Greeks were supposed to be united, after all, if you come down to it, we're all shooting for the same goals here. We are all brother and sister every race, color, age...etc.

kddani, thank you.

At my school, I know of one fraternity that has two gay men; I've also heard of gays in other fraternities as well. Then again, I know of a few fraternities that are totally homophobic. With sororities, I have a female friend who transferred from another school where she was an Alpha Sigma Alpha and she is bi; she said she was not looked down upon or treated any differently.

My point is, it really just depends on the individual fraternity. Give it a shot, but be up front about being gay so there won't be any problems later.

Jono,

Don't lower yourself to his level. It's not worth the brain damage.

TKEmz894,

Don't make a big mistake here. The internet is NOT free of the law. People are arrested for posting lots of stuff -- and it's so easy to track IP addresses, etc. You may only have an old truck now, but have you heard of garnishment? It's a great way to screw up your financial life for years to come.

Civility is a wonderful thing, as I said before, let's be adults and practice some.

TO TKEmz894-

I don't understand why you are angry.
I don't agree with what UNF Sigma Chi believes in, but if that is the way he feels I respect him for it. He can still believe that and I can still believe that sexuality does not apply to a sisterhood or brotherhood at all. He, I can respect.
You I cannot. Why would you begin using deragatory remarks to those people who were commenting back? There is no need for that. I am sure you can find other words to describe things than the ones you chose to, and I also personally believe you only use them to get shock and reaction. The English language is vast and you are not using it to its fullest capacity.
That being said- if your brother (by blood) or sister said they were gay would you hate them too? ANd why do you think so much of yourself to think that a gay man would want to have sex with you? Are you so sure they would chose a man who is so, hmm... eloquent with with words? Perhaps their standards set somewhere else.
I have gay friends who have been in TKE, Sig Ep, Phi Delta Theta, AGD, Phi Mu, AOPi, and Kappa Sig. Some have been officers at different levels. Most are actives currently.
Oh, by the way, i am in the "south" and women of every ethnicity are accepted into our sisterhood under the same circumstances that everyone else is.
And also about the redneck comment, my boyfriend is a self proclaimed redneck, most of his fraternity brothers are. They don't care who calls them it. They don't see it as a bad things. But what does that term have to do with the thread at all?

Well YAll you are to funny beyond beleife!

Hell Boy you just a good ole Country Bumbkin! From teh Caju Ara!

Da, I just got of the Phone Last Night with one of your most disingust Brothers Yes E C! I also have the Pleasure of Knowing another of your Brothers ZNTEKE! Fine Gentlemen Both!

I have know many fine TEKEs over the years and respect everyone of them as Interfraternal Brothers!

Get over your little self impotence and rally be a man! O K Miss Scarlet?

TRA LA TRA LA Get down and Get Funky!

Thread is getting out of hand!

Aint goin to change anyones idea fo anything!:D

J MOM Love ya sweety are your rich yet? Call me when your are, I will think about a tryst!
Whart Say You you sexy Wench from Louisiann!?:)

Your Admirer in KC!;)

I don t make any money but I love my Job!:p

OOPS I must apologize for being a perfect ass whole to some of you!:cool:

Tom- OT-Looks like a trip to Seattle would be in order. Appearance of a LOT of hankey-pankey, trying to decide if it's worth the effort. Important papers seemed to have
"disappeared" ala Enron style... Maybe better luck for a great Seattle Mystery! The final outcome was a lot of good for a lot of people with a few free rides along the way. So in my heart, it may be best (to add this famous quote) "LET IT BE, LET IT BE...."

Re: Re: To Pbear, and Tom
 

Now, I kind of have a problem when people say the word "homphobic."

I personally have nothing against gay people (I have two brothers that are gay and I love them just as much.)
But, why is it if someone doesn't agree with a homsexual lifestyle they are considered "homophobic?"

I guess I've always associated a phobia with a fear of something or someone. Some people may be afraid of homsexual people and the term could be used accordingly, but what if they just don't agree with the lifestyle?

Something to ponder I guess...

Re: This is all crap
 

I heard the Mu Zeta chapter has had many homosexuals over the years.

I know you were trying to make a point. I'm just trying to figure out why a lot of people seem to use that term so often. I know people that don't agree with the lifestyle of someone that is gay, but they don't bash it, and they aren't afraid of it so I don't consider that homophobic.

Damn, I cannot even spell it less alone pronounce it!

That is what I love about the People on Greek Chat, you are all so up on things and can spell good too!:)

Hi folks get on with the real world where WE as Greeks are taking hits from every swinging Moron out there!

We are the Minority whether we be Black, White or What the heck ever!

While I do not agree with everything said on here, I beleive we have the right to discuss the options!

Do I hear a Yea or a Nay?

Damn I love seeing my numbers climb! It is easy as I enjoy this site more than any thing!

Youse are all a little weird, hell OTW has the Best go she is in Paradise an I want to be with her!:)

Geez....there is not a single gay person on my campus. I know of one guy who came out after he graduated (he was a Sigma Chi even) but other than that....my campus is, while not Christian technically, very conservative and I would say homophobic. I can't imagine the ruckus that an openly gay person going through rush would cause. If it was a girl I would imagine that my house might be the only one to extend her a bid. Sometimes I wish I had gone somewhere with more open-minded people.

By saying that, do you mean you wish you had gone to a different university?

I would just like to say that any fraternity that would not acept you for who you are is not a fraternity that you would want to be a part of. Believe it or not there are a lot more gay/lesbian members in sororities and fraternities than people assume. Heck, our last two sweethearts for my sorority were gay, and they are both fraternity members themselves. The point I'm trying to make is gay or straight, they are people and they have feelings. To turn someone down because of that not only saddens me, but disgusts me. How could you live with yourselves knowing that you are a racist? Anyways, moving on...rush! You will be suprised by the open armed welcome you will recieve from organizations you will love to be a part of. All the other ones...aren't worth your time and are going to be missing out on wonderful people. Screw 'em!;)

We're tossing around some pretty loaded words in here...

Homophobic -- Damasa put it perfectly... Overused and used incorrectly probably most of the time.

I think many people have gone so far as to say in a civil manner that they would not like gays as brothers. They find it to be immoral.

Just like a fella that steals and lies... it's on that same level with many people.

To stigmatize them as 'homophobic' is truly unfair. Perhaps they're not 'open to alternative lifestyles' but I think that phrase describes a different belief system altogether.

__________

I may be blind... but I'm seeing opinions on this subject being divided down lines of gender. Let me be so bold as to say at least in my personal experience it is different in fraternities than it is with sororities.

Attitudes towards alternative lifestyles are different. Especially with the 18-19 year olds we're trying to throw bids at during Recruitment.

I think the fear is that many 18-19 year olds would dump one house in favor of the 'straight' house is real. It seems almost inevitable.

This is I think a well justified fear among many houses that have not experienced this issue first hand. To preach (and yes, some in here ARE preaching) a doctrine at someone who is just looking out for their houses best interests is not fair. It's aggressive behavior and I don't believe you can change attitudes that way.

_____________________________

Let's try to understand that many of us do not see this as such a black and white, good and bad type issue. It has many shades of grey. Many reactions for our actions. It is not fair to stand back from the action, not understanding the true implications of it and saying that what someone else does is wrong.

This issue is actually very complex for many of us.

Fortunately in many places the doors are open wide to ANYONE. Still, in other places in the name of image or competition they are not. This will change (or might not) as general attitudes change. Don't try and force it.

LHT
Kevin

Does anyone even remember the original question? :confused: I personally do not think that if this guy is openly gay that he will be invited to join most houses. If one were to believe in the Kinsey study that 1 out of every 10 men is homosexual, then of course almost every house probably has at least one or two gay brothers, but they most likely were not out when they rushed.

One other point-please do not associate being gay as a minority group like African-American or Asian-American or Latino. They are not the same! I am an African-American male in a overwhelmingly White Anglo Saxon Protestant national fraternity. When I went through rush, there was no way I could hide who I was. A homosexual male can hide who he is. I don't know if homosexuals are born gay, or if it is other factors that make them that way, but they are not a minority group in my opinion, and it really takes away from the real minority groups that have worked so hard to be given equal rights. And I am not homophobic-Hell, I live in the gayest area in the country-30 miles from San Francisco! You don't know gay until you've spent Halloween in S.F. :D

Kevin (Sigma Nu),

I like the way you write; you seem to be a thoughtful person. I'm wondering however, if you realize that at the same time you say homophobia is the wrong word, you use the word 'fear' at least twice. (phobia =fear)

I don't want to emphasize symantics or grammar, though. But I do wonder why almost everyone talks about 'lifestyle' and such as a defining factor.

I'm gay but I live and work the same way most straight people do. I don't have a "lifestyle" that's any different. I don't even know what is meant by that.

I get up in the morning, go to work, pick up my mail on the way home, and then check my e-mail and write back to my fraternity brothers. I'm the president of my alumni association and it keeps me very busy.

I told everyone I'm 'gay' because I'm just not attracted to girls. I figure that's being honest. There are alot of brothers of every fraternity who are this way. You wouldn't know it if they didn't tell you.

The real question is: What would you do if they did? Don't answer this. Just think what you would do if one of your bros was honest with you. It's not an easy question and the answer is sometimes not known until it actually comes down to the actual fact.

I was very afraid to come out, but when I did it was very anti-climactic. My brothers didn't short-change me - I had short-changed them all that time.

Jono

Jono, I'm glad you replied.

I used the word "fear" not directed at the "lifestyle" (I'll get to that later) but the potential outcomes of recruiting openly gay members.

Actually that has hurt at least one group on my campus. My little brother (blood) wouldn't even consider a certain group because they had like 8 fellas come out at once. This group's house has been the subject of much speculation and persecution since this time.

Sad but true, in our backwards corner of the Bible Belt these feared consequences are very very real.

It comes down to a very difficult question for a fraternity's leadership to address (or several)

Should we refuse to extend a bid to an openly gay man due to the possible fallout?

Does this man understand that with Sigma Nu you must have a 100% vote to be initiated? (this is sometimes a stumbling block, even when you have just ONE brother that doesn't consider ALL the facts about an individual).

And of course there are more.... For a chapter in my part of the country these are very real issues when it comes to this subject and they are very complex.
_______________

As for lifestyle I should have qualified that as percieved lifestyle.

When a person thinks of what a gay man is supposed to be like (and most people think that way) they have a certain image. That is to say certain stereotypes are expected. Things like limp wrists and talking with a lisp and things done behind closed doors.

When a man says he's gay that's what many people think. They must come out of their comfort zones and explore the facts about each individual person. Some are willing and some are not.

It's that "some" that keep getting us hung up.

________________

You told me not to answer the question "What would they do if they did?" But I feel obligated to do so :D

While some might imagine the worst (and I'd bet a brother on the verge of coming out would do so), I honestly believe that their experience would be similar to yours. Very anti-climatic.

The fact that we already know this person and have already formed our concept of who they are I think will lead us to the truth that regardless of what they do.. they're still a brother.

__________________

I've heard great things about your love and dedication to your organization. I could only hope to be blessed with brothers with the same zeal as yourself.

And I could give a rat's ass about anything else:D

It is very possible to be an outstanding greek member when you are homosexual. At my school (a fairly conservitive d-2 university in a midwestern town of 11,000) there quite frankly aren't many openly gay people. However I can think of a chapter who has a member that just graduated who is openly gay, and from what I understand he was a great member. He was the secretary of his chapter, president of the gay/straight alliance, on the homecoming court, and in several other organizations. I asked a friend of mine in his chapter what he thought of him being gay and how the chapter as a whole accepted it. He said something to the affect of, "He's a brother. Who cares if he's gay, that's his choice, it doesn't make him any less of a person or a brother because of it. What matters is that he's a brother, and we accept him for who he is, no matter what." This fraternity is also one of the top chapters on campus in recruitment, awards, grades, etc., and has been around since sometime in the 50s (a long time for our campus). I totally respect and applaud these guys for their openess to diversity...very classy.:)

I'm reading this thread, and finding it interesting. I've posted before, and won't repeat what was there, but I do have new things to say. its late, so if I repeat something someone else has said, I apoligize.

As much as a paticular chapter of a paticular fraternity or soroity might embody the values of their founders, there are others who might be slightly different, less zelous. Or, interpert the belifes of their founders in a different manner. I know my chapter is very liberal. I am straight, but when I joined my fraternity, if you included my pledge class, about 30% of my house was gay or bisexual when I joined it. We had 11 different countries represented inour house. When my fraternity was founded, it was founded by all white men.

We are different than our founding members. than our founding chapter. Yet we embodie the values and belifes of our founders and the Fraternity as a whole. But I'm sure there is a chapter or two of sigma nu out there that might disagree, or at least a member somewhere.

I traveled to virgina last summer, to go to College Of Chapters, a meeting of delegates from every chapter of sigma nu around the US and Canada. This summer, I am going to Grand chapter, another meeting of Sigma Nu's, this time, in toronto. Last summer, I met all sorts of people. some of whom I connected with, some of whom probably would not have rushed my chapter, and had different views and beliefs. But I feel I would have been hard pressed to find soeone who did not try and follow the desires of our founders in their goals of Sigma Nu.

I think many chapters have different ways of living out what their rituals and histories place down before them.

Sigma Chi may, in one opinion, not be a place for Gay's. Others might interepert things a bit differently. I Don't know why they were founded, or what their goals are.

The TKE's on my campus are All white, middle/upper class males. They've had gay/non-white members, but they've all left. (they have recently recolonized, and this year was the first year that the "new tke's had any graduates). I know some who were against any Gay's joining TKE, and others who were for it.

One fo the reasons I joined Sigma nu, is because of how THIS chapter embodied the values of Sigma Nu. I've gone to other chapters, visited, and talked with the members. And some of them do things in a way that I would feel comfortable as a brother, and as a pledge, but would not have drawn me in for rush. Does this make them sup-par sigma nu's? not at all.

Everyone here is a representitive from their respective orginazations, but by no means represent their ENTIRE fraternity or Sorority. Remember that too. Don't judge all members off of one or two people here and their views.

M
Sigma Nu
Delta Theta Chapter,
Knox College

Re: Being Gay and Greek
 

If you are going to school if Fla then look up UF Pike. His chapter is looking for a few good men.

Re: Re: Being Gay and Greek
 

:rolleyes:

I bet you know about all the "good men", huh?

:rolleyes:

When I mentioned the word "lifestyle" I didn't mean it in a degrading sense. I was thinking about the sexual preference side of a lifestyle and relating it to the word usage of "homophobia/homophobic." Maybe I should have been clear when I stated this but I was more interested in the usage of the word "homophobic" simply because I hear it used incorrectly somtimes.

question
 

I was wondering if a gay member of GC such as Jono or librasoul could answer a question.

If homosexuals are really attracted to members of the same sex then how come many gay couples seem to have one masculine person and one feminine person?

Example.. Ellen Degeneris and Anne Heche. Anne dresses femanine and acts feminine while Ellen wears a suit and tie and she is somewhat masculine. Now if Ellen was really gay then why would she go for a woman that looks like a man? What's the deal?

Re: question
 

Actually, I am not homosexual. But if you are bothered that no one of EITHER sex is attracted to you, maybe you should start your inquiries closer to home...

LibraSoul, what makes someone think you are homosexual? Is it because we, you and I argue the same facts?

Hell there are 599 Brothers of my Chapter That I love, there are Brothers like Jono who is a Brother that I love!

Would I want to get sexually involved with them no!

Do I want them to still be my close Freinds, YES!

Self Importance is underwhelming!:)

Tom Earp, I was directed it toward shlutzz actually because he said Jono and I were gay. Jono is, but I am not. I am not insecure about my sexuality, but I felt it was more of a personal dig than an honest question.

Not sure what the rest of your post meant, but that is not unusual.