Re: Sparkle
 

I totally agree with you on her turning the tape over sooner. (IF she was the one who turned it in) IMHO I think she is the one that turned it in. Because as soon as the isht hit the fan, SHE WAS THE FIRST ONE SAYING THAT, THE GIRL ON THE TAPE WAS HER NIECE. Now i'm like the tape JUST CAME OUT, how did you come to that conclusion so quickly. :rolleyes: Anyway, you know the parents of sparkle's neice is saying that, it isn't her in the video.
On the radio this morning, their was a lawyer(not on the case) saying that THEY (assuming the police) are looking for the girl IN THE VIDEO, to prove that she was a minor at the time and still is a minor. I was thinking, any girl could come up and say that, it is her in the video. Whoever she is, she is probably to embarrassed to say anything, due the the nature of what's going on. DO YOU ALSO KNOW that same lawyer on the radio also said that there is a chance that he may not serve all 15 years, and that he could get out in 6-9 months:eek:, and that's IF HE GOES TO TRIAL, AND IS CONVICTED ON ALL 21 COUNTS.
It's always some loopholes somewhere.

My main thing is that the tape was made three years ago. A person cant change in three years? And with all the talk going on in Chicago, why didn't anyone say anything sooner? hmmm

Not being anywhere near a lawyer, I know that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Without the girl's or her parent's cooperation, the state can't proceed with any statutory rape charges. They had to stick to child porn charges. I am wondering why the parents arent coming forward (other than the obvious embarassment to their child). That strikes me, as a parent, as odd. Had he not taped it, there would be no case. Did anyone see BET NEWS last night, with the lawyer for the other "victims'? She made a statement that she hoped that he would be fined, and then would go on to be successful so that he would have a ready cache of money available to compensate these other women. I had to shake my head at that. If they were so "traumatized" by the alleged abuse, why did they wait until he was already down to say something? hmmm..

Listening to the Russ Parr and Olivia Fox show this morning, she commented that black women are quick to criticize each other, ie, saying the girl was fast, etc. What do you all think? I am inclined to agree with her, from personal experience. :(

Ok, Last question. When his next record comes out, will you buy it? I will. I like his music.

Question 1: R. Kelly is the person on trial. It is clear that these girls were in no position to be making adult decisions. So, I'm not judging their deeds, because "that ain't my job".

Question 2: I have not purchased one of R. Kelly's CD's since 1996...largely because his values aren't my values. I will not purchase his CDs in the future for the same reason.

I agree.

I bought 12-play waaaaay back when, when I was a kid and not listening to the content in my music as much as I do now. I remember MY first hint of something being wrong with the man was when he had that "You Remind Me of My Jeep" song. I HATED it so much. How dare you compare me to an inanimate object was my feeling hten, and it pretty much lasted through the rest of his music career.

I would NEVER buy an R. Kelly cd, and have been of that mindset for years now. I do not want to support that man and his way of life with my money. I wouldn't even DOWNLOAD R. Kelly music.

I think it all boils down to values and responsibility. Nobody is holding the artists that spew filthy lyrics accountable. I'm not sure when true creativity became masked for perverse fools who have no shame stepping up to a mic. Why does there music and lifestyle get through while others are Never given a chance of communicating enlightened, talented music? And, on a spiritual level, this perversion just keeps multiplying and multiplying until it comes back and kicks our community in the face. We are so much better than that. There is no way that radio should be playing a lot of this filth over and over. But we just listen to it and keep right on shaking and stepping. So sad...

LOL !!!! :p

Ooooooo yessssss... :eek:

I wil
 

buy his next cd if he's singing jail house rock!:mad:

The FBI has now verified and authenticated the R Kelly tapes as "child pornography". Therefore, ANYONE in possession of those tapes is subject to criminal action..on the grounds of posession of child porn.

So, if anyone you know (certainly none of you "own" the tapes!!) purchased one of the tapes on the street, then you might want to suggest that they destroy it immediately!

Rra, from a lawyer's perspective
 

Intriguing article, I picked it up from the NPHC Topica list.
Real Talk with John Fagerholm: R. Kelly And The Court Of Public
Opinion
written by John W. Fagerholm, Esq.
Friday - June 7, 2002

Another talented and successful brother bites the dust. I was never a big R. Kelly fan, but I hate to see anyone who works his way up from the bottom take a fall. (At least we now know where his inspiration for all those raunchy ballads came from.)

I don't fault R. Kelly for having some freak in him, but sex with underage girls is illegal. And just as Paul Reubens (Pee Wee Herman) and several Catholic Priests should be punished if they are found guilty for sex acts with little boys, R. Kelly should also be punished when he is found guilty of committing sex acts with little girls.

R. Kelly is in the fight of his life to stay out of jail. But regardless of
the outcome, I don't think he will ever recover from the bad publicity that has been generated. A long standing tenet of our judicial system is "a person is innocent until proven guilty." But in the court of public opinion the inference is always that you are guilty until you can prove your innocence beyond an absolute doubt and even then there will still be doubters of your innocence. In R. Kelly's case, he made it very easy for us
all to infer his guilt by videotaping the whole dirty deed.

There have been several other artists who have been part of similar scandals and have recovered or even gained more notoriety because of the scandal. Most notably, Michael Jackson was accused several years ago of inappropriate behavior with young boys and he is still going strong as ever. The distinction between R. Kelly and Michael Jackson is that there was not any
real proof that Michael Jackson acted inappropriately with any children. The only evidence was the accusations of a father who lost credibility by demanding money for keeping quiet. There was never any proof of molestation and the police dropped all criminal charges for lack of evidence.

There is no doubt in my mind that R. Kelly will be convicted of the crimes he is charged with. The video clearly depicts him having sex. (Note to criminals: Do not record your crimes under any circumstances). The only question remaining is whether the females that are engaging in sex with him are of legal consenting age.

I don't think the video is proof in itself of the age of the females because it is very difficult to determine age just by looking. However, I am sure that the prosecutors and investigators in this case have located the females depicted in the video and determined their ages at the time the video was
made. In a high-profile case where the accused has the money to fight his conviction, the prosecutors would not have brought an indictment unless they had the proof needed to make it stick.

Even if R. Kelly is not convicted and he continues to make music, I do not think the music industry will be quick to forgive his misdeeds. R. Kelly is going to find it very difficult to find any players in the industry that will back any of his projects. My guess is that R. Kelly will be black-balled from the industry in the same way that Rob Lowe was black-balled from the film and television industry for nearly a decade.

For those of you who don't know the story, during the Republican National Convention in the early nineties, Rob Lowe met a girl at a bar for persons 21 and older. All the evidence showed that Rob Lowe did not have knowledge that the girl was only sixteen, but it took nearly a decade for him to be accepted back into the folds of the industry because he videotaped himself having sex with a girl who was later discovered to be underage.

If I were R. Kelly, I would have fled to Brazil. There is no extradition treaty with the US, the exchange rate is favorable and the legal age of consent is 14.

John W. Fagerholm, Esq. is a music attorney based in the Los Angeles area. He represents several multi-platinum artists and producers and a grammy nominated artist. Mr. Fagerholm also represents several successful independent record labels, radio personalities, and management and booking agencies. For his clients, he negotiates and drafts recording, producing, and distribution agreements, among others; administrates publishing; forms entertainment companies; registers trademarks and copyrights; and litigates disputes. Contact him at johnfag-@aol.com.

R. Kelly's Kindergarten Concert
by Marcus Errico
Jun 10, 2002, 4:00 PM PT

R. Kelly's first post-arrest concert might get him in a heap of trouble.

Just hours after the singer was arrested by Chicago police, rung up on child-pornography charges and released on bail, he reportedly performed with a group of kindergarten students--seemingly a violation of a judge's order barring Kelly from coming into contact with any unrelated minor.

Kelly, 35, was booked Friday in his hometown on 21 counts of child pornography stemming from a much-bootlegged underground videotape purportedly showing him having sex with a 14-year-old. The Grammy winner faces up to 15 years in prison and a $100,000 fine if convicted. Kelly has repeatedly proclaimed his innocence.

Following his processing at a police station, according to the Chicago Tribune, Kelly was accompanied by his lawyer, Ed Genson, and spiritual adviser, the Reverend James Meeks, to Meeks' parish, the Salem Baptist Church, where a group had gathered to sing a Kelly composition with the beleagured songsmith.

Included in the group of about 1,000 people were two dozen kindergarteners. Kelly led the group in the performance.

Apparently, the mini-concert isn't sitting too well with Chicago prosecutors. After Kelly was arrested at his home in Florida last week, he appeared before a local judge to post bond so he could return to Chicago to face the charges. At that hearing, Polk County Judge Karla Wright set the terms of the bond, one of which called for Kelly to stay away from underage children not related by blood or marriage.

The Chicago-based prosecutors in the Cook County State's Attorney's Office tells the Tribune they had been notified of Kelly's appearance with the children and that prosecutors will in turn bring it up before a judge to determine whether Kelly has violated the order.

But Kelly's lawyer Genson says his client did nothing wrong. Genson tells the paper that the order only applied to the Florida bond. "When he surrendered in Chicago, the Florida bond was no longer valid," he tells the Tribune. "There were no conditions on the Illinois bond."

Kelly, who paid $75,000 in cash to make his $750,000 bond, is scheduled to be back in court on June 26.

Jaysis
 

Who is stupider -- Mike Tyson or Rra? My vote is Rra.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/cont...inkai/tool.gif

Rra...

I just heard the latest in this drama . . .

The young girl's parents are going to be charged along with Rra. The prosecution is saying that they knew what was going on, agreed to it, and even helped it to happen. (In what ways? I really don't know).

You know what, this really explains a lot for me. I kept wondering why in the world Sparkle, the aunt, was the only one saying something. I just figured that the parents got paid before Sparkle could get to them. Come to find out, they were in on it from jump.

rkelly...
 

As I peruse thru the many opinions written about Kelly I ponder the question is a man guilty when he is misled? I teach 13-14+ year olds ;many of which look older than I do! I have seen girls actually flirting with the men in my building (and getting rejection but they still persist might I add). They wear halter tops, tight skirts, daisy dukes...you name it they wear it. Keep in mind they bring extra clothing to school to change without the parents knowledge. Some parents mind you don't care and buy the clothes for them! I digress..... I feel that some men are doomed from the beginning. Some tell them no and some of the girls are so trifling that they lie just to get even. Others truly don't know these girls ages. You have your dirty old men but let's keep it real. If a man asks how old are you and you say 18 and you look like you are 18 some men are not smart enough to conversate first then get the "draws" second. I digress..... In his case, I think it is a case of revenge. C'mon suing for $50,000? Does that really make sense? Where were the parents when this child dropped her panties? Where is the moral value of teaching a girl how to be a lady? :confused: I didn't hear of her resisting any sexual advances either? We have a lot of GROWN women caught up with the idea of "I slept with a celebrity" so what makes us think that this girl or any cheez-chaser is any different. I am not saying he doesn't have a fetish for young girls,I'm saying that with his popularity comes the price of fame. Whatcha think?:) :mad: :mad: :mad:

See, this is the ridiculousness I'm talkin about....
 

BOO!!! I'm sorry, but BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Why was this newsworthy? Out of A THOUSAND people, there were 24 kindergarteners????? SO WHAT?

geesh... get a real story.

Re: rkelly...
 

I think that blaming a CHILD for thinking and acting like a CHILD is kind of pointless.

You have a real point here- where were these girls parents? Why were they not raised to value themselves and their bodies? Why on earth would you let a fourteen year old walk around butt nekkid?

But at the same time, I think you are blaming those girls, and that is unfair. They are CHILDREN. The responsibility for acting with restraint and care lies with the ADULT men.

I don't care how big her chest is, the moment a fourteen or fifteen year old open their mouth, you know that they are not full-grown, mature adults. Their thoughts and attitudes are mostly immature and/or unformed and you can SEE that. Any man who says he did not is lying, or has blinded himself to his own moral culpability in the situation.

It is up to grown ass people to act like it, and sometimes that means taking RESPONSIBILITY for the harm that you do, no matter how many millions of records you have sold.

Re: Re: rkelly...
 

It all dependes. Now while talking to a 14 year old may be obvious. If a child is btwn 16 and 17, maybe 15 and has a body and LOOKS grown, it may be hard to tell how old they really are. I work in an adolescent clinic for ages 12-24 and I have been wrong on several occasions on both ends. There are some 20 year olds who I swore were in their teens based on body type AND the way they talked. Conversation is not always a good indicator. I am sure some of you know some teens that when they open their mouth you think, they are very mature for their age. These are usually the ones who can pass for being older.

And I said it before, the young girls (boys if applicable) and their parents should undergo some type of counseling/education as part of the whole outcome of the trial. Just b/c you want to press charges against this man for "violating" your daughter, remember she did spread her legs. :eek: (I had to be blunt). Some girls will only get "involved" with older men. What will you teach them, or will just get mad at the 22 year old man who got your 16 year old pregnant, b/c this is an everyday occurance.

No doubt, the parents do have some part in this whole fiasco. Parents are responsible for their children's actions until they are 18 years of age...then they must fend for themselves. Up to that time, it is crucial that parents instill in their child a sense of self: having goals, respect for others, self esteem, self identity, etc. Today, young people receive such visual stimulation in the classroom and through various media that serve as interference in the parents instructional plan (for those who are trying to parent). Destiny's Child, Brittany Spears, MTV, their peers are influencing them in a different direction. (Let me digress for a sec and say: THIS IS NOT NEW...it was going on when I was a teenager...the era of the "daisy dukes" and "poom-poom shots"--not shorts)

What is critical to remember is that kids are influenced...and even if they dress a certain way...and try to act grown...the foundation laid by their parents and their own moral development will keep them from doing "the dirty" and other misdeeds. Do I believe that the kids are wrong? Its not an easy issue...because as the old saying goes...CHILDREN LEARN WHAT THEY LIVE. And, at the pre-teen and teenage years...they are still learning and are still living. Who's job is it to ensure that they make good decisions?Everyone.

The African Proverb is so true: it takes a village to raise a child. And, as much as Hillary may have overused my ancestors saying...it is a true statement. Grandma, grandpa, "Uncle" Joe, Sister Smith....er'body must be involved. And, guess what? The "adult" men must help out...teach these young ladies that their value is not in externalities...but their value is in their hearts and minds....that their instruments are not to be misused and widely exposed.

We all have a job to play....its about holistic responsibility. When I see problems such as these arising...it troubles me...not from a "they" standpoint, but a "we" one. I think of where did WE go wrong. How can I work to ensure that young ladies under my influence don't fall into such sex traps? I think about these young boys. I want them to become responsible MEN. I want to see men of their community and home step in and help direct them toward the meaning of TRUE manhood.

You know, I'm thinking about Rra's baby girls. I think about his children and the kind of message they are receiving about Black manhood by watching their dad. Yes, yes, the momma and R. should have thought about them long ago..but they didn't and now what? Who's going to get them going in the right direction?

See, it is my belief that we have to step around this whole accusatory slant that many have been taking here...and find something to do so that cycles of behavior are not repeated. Any suggestions? What are YOU going to do?

I generally do not get so disgusted, but with a couple of the last posts, I cannot hide my disdain. Are you people serious? Am I hearing what I think I am hearing?
Sometimes, the greatest enemy of black people are we we black people ourselves. We sometimes find away to make excuses for our famous people. There is no way to justify a superstar sleeping with a kid. None. The argument about mature looking children is weak and irresponsible, and borders on a criminal. I cannot say it any better than Lovelyivy.
So what if they "spread their legs"? So would a 2yr-old. I know that is extreme, but the responsibility lies with the adult male. Period. As a man, I have a responsibility to ensure that I am not taking advantage of a child. If I cannot be sure of whom I am sleeping with, then I need to keep my pants on. It is ridiculous to remove blame from who and where it is due.
I agree that some kids are physically misleading. I coach middle school kids, so I've seen grown men fall prey to children. I also agree with Miss priss in that I believe that the parents are almost as guilty as R Kelly. They should be prosecuted. However, to suggest that these supposedly "fast" girls are more to blame than a man with a track record of luring underaged girls to have illicit sexual relations is preposterous.
Sometimes, as men, we need to stop pointing fingers. There are worse things than a "fast" child. I do not mean to sound moralistic, but if we gave in to anything that wore a skirt, we do not deserve the respect and love we demand from our women. We need to quit coddling celebrities, and call a spade a "spade". I agree, Riley, these girls need some good teaching, but the responsibility ultimately lies with the adult. Fair or not, that's how it is, and it is not that hard to uphold.

Perspective on R
 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/...s-kelly09.html


http://www.suntimes.com/output/mitch...s-mitch11.html


http://www.suntimes.com/output/dyson...t-dyson11.html

I totally agree with you. R. Kelly and others like him must understand that age isn't simply a number...but that as adults, there is some shouldering that must be done. Adult men and women have to carry the burden of girls and boys and help guide them along the way toward morally based and intellectually driven decisions.

I've approached this topic today from a standpoint of R. Kelly is wrong. He placed an adult decision in child hands and that is something that he should not have done under ANY circumstances. However, how can we push the dialogue further? Do we keep talking about this gross wrong, or do we use it as a catalyst for other discussion?

This brings me back to my question, what are WE going to do (assuming that like me, you have an Afro or God-centric world view that the problems of girls and boys is a WE issue)?

Maybe you misunderstood me. IF Rra is guilty then he should be prosecuted. I am not taking any blame of the gulty men who may or not prey on young girls. These are some of the same men who get these young girls pregnant and say it ain't mine. Yes prosecute!

On the other side a two year-old is not going to lie ans say she is 18 or 19 and I want to have sex with you. If a teenager thinks it is cool to do so, and lets keep it real some of us have lied about our ages for many differnt reasons, they need to be educated as to why is it not cool. The repecussions that can happen. When I was a teenager many of my peers knew what satuatory (sp?) rape was but didn't care b/c they didnt get caught.

What I say is once we prosecute and punish the criminal then what??

First of all, TLAW, you are absolutely on point.

You have sort of sideswiped the issue. You are correct that these girls need to be educated. But they cannot educate themselves. Therefore the responsibility lies with parents, teachers, and indeed, the men they come on to.

I think that we need to handle these types of situations from both ends. Men like R. Kelly have major issues :eek: . He seeks out young women to fill whatever is lacking in his life, God can only know what that could be. I believe that he is guilty and should be punished accordingly, there is no question about that. By punishing someone of his stature will show other men with the "young girl fetish" that it is a very serious crime. As Riley said, I think that this young girl should get some sort of counseling when it is all said and done. There was obviously something she felt she was missing from her life too why she tried to fill the void with sex and the affection (if that's what you want to call it) from an older man.

I am in no way blaming the girl for the prosecution of Kelly. But these young girls need to realize that although you may have the body of a woman, there is a lot to be learned before you take on that title. Lesson #1 would be respecting yourself. There is no way that that young lady had any respect for herself to let Rra do the things that he did to her. And that maybe because no one ever told her that she was worth more than a "good time". And if our younger generation of women feel that is what they need to do to be accepted, we all have a lot of work ahead of us.

There are always going to be the "R. Kelly's" of the world, but we need to teach our daughters, sisters, cousins, etc., to avoid those situations and have pride in themselves. There would be a big difference iin this case if Kelly molested a 2yr old than a 14 year old. If the girl were two, she would not understand what was taking place and it would probably be by force. I agree that the fourteen year old still has the mind of a child, but she understands what sex is. What she may not understand is that sex does not = love or a relationship. The best thing that can be done for her is to help her rebuild herself through lots of prayer and counseling.

Just MHO.

Thank you. lovele1978! No one said punish the girls, but some education must be done for them. True the family and close friends are the first line of defense, but what if they fail (it is not uncommon). Then what? No one has seemed to tackle that point.

Parent, teachers and sometimes the men do educate the girls on why they should change their behavior. They try to stop them in their tracks, but sometimes the girls will keep trying untill they find someone who is responsive.

Two methods:

1. Educate the girls from jump so they will not have the need to seek older "affection". That would be close family and friends.

If that doesn't work

2. If that doesn't work and the "couple" is caught and charges are pressed. EDUCATION needs to be implemented on both parts b/especially the minor b/c they are the ones who are free to do it again if they so want. I.e the case in Cali several years ago with the teacher and her student. She wound up having THREE kids for her underage student. He didn't mind b/c he loved her. Obviously his family and close support and the media didn't stop his actions.

I'm loving the course that this thread is starting to take...looking for solutions.

This brings me back to the question that I posed earlier: What will you personally do to ensure that boys and girls under your influence begin to think differently about themselves and relationships with others?

Sure, we can think of what government programs should be done...but I think we need to stop projecting a need for X, Y, Z program ('cause you know that you've not contacted your congressional rep to make the recommendation, although you SAY that you will) and take some personal or community-oriented initiative. Now, I'm not saying that a government program wouldn't be good...but I don't think that they always do what they intend. How can you develop leadership and self esteem among youth? I'd like to hear of any non-profit orgs. you are in or know of....so that perhaps we can move from tragedy to triumph.

+++
Here's what I DO

*College Student Ministry (17-22 year old age cohort), Spiritual Leader at my church
*I have been active with mentoring programs for young teenage girls
*I speak with young women and men...I find out what they are thinking and try to help them make good decisions

What I would like to do?

*Become locally active with organizations that target girls within the 11-14 age cohort. That is truly the life changing period...mentoring, role modeling, whatever can be done at the community level to reach out to these girls is something that I want to be about. I'm working now to develop a community action for this age group where I live because that is something on my heart.

Good stuff people, and very well said. I must point out to Lovele that my reference to the 2-yr old had nothing to do with molestation. I was just putting a parallel out there to serve as an argument to say that 14 yr-olds generally think like children. Riley intelligently countered that argument.
I agree, the key is counseling. Ladies, get out there and teach these girls that sex is not a valid measure of their worth. It does take a village. There is too much of an emphasis on sex, and this pressure rubs off on our kids. Somebody watch an hour of BET, or go to our schools to hear convos, or just plain listen to our kids. Riley, I know you feel me!
For those that slip through, we need to take decisive measures to deal with the bastards who take advantage of the kids. I understand that Rra has been doing this for years. That means there probably have been more than a few young girls who have fallen victim to him. There is also talk of the parents being aware that thier daughter was sleeping with Rra. With parents like that, we are almost always going to fail at instilling self-pride in our kids.
Good stuff on this thread, people.

Rev. Meeks takes RKelly to Kindergarten Graduation....WTF?
 

Tarnished R. Kelly needs prayers, not applause

June 11, 2002

BY MARY MITCHELL SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

By the time I got off the phone with the Rev. James Meeks, pastor of Salem Baptist Church, I felt like the laity must have felt when they finally confronted pedophilia in the Catholic church: frustrated.

Why would anyone bring an accused sex offender on stage at a kindergarten graduation to say a few words?

Why didn't Meeks think it was inappropriate to let R. Kelly sing at the ceremony shortly after the superstar was released on bond for child pornography charges?

Praying for sinners is one thing. But parading an accused pedophile before young children and their parents calls for more compassion than most are able to dig up.

According to Meeks, when Kelly arrived home after turning himself in at a Chicago police station, there was a "throng," of reporters waiting. So, Meeks towed Kelly home with him and then to the graduation.

"I had said to R. Kelly if he is innocent then he should not hide and go into seclusion as if he is some kind of hermit," Meeks told me. "He should tell the truth and face his accusers.

"We walked in and the children were performing 'The World's Greatest' [one of Kelly's recent hits]. It was such a coincidence," Meeks said.

"When the track was over, the guy on the organ started playing and the kids were screaming his name. Kelly sang about two lines of the song, congratulated the kids and asked people to pray for him."

But aren't you opening yourself up to criticism? I asked Meeks. It is not like these allegations came out of the blue. Kelly has settled lawsuits with two women, two others have lawsuits pending, and there's the sex tape.

A few weeks ago, Kelly was on national TV, alongside Meeks, insisting that he wasn't on the tape. But after the indictment, Kelly's lawyer has only said "there are no underage girls on the tape."

Although a condition of Kelly's bond in Florida was that he avoid contact with minors, no such condition was tagged to his bond in Illinois.

Only one parent complained about Kelly's impromptu appearance at the graduation, Meeks said.

"If he were convicted, it is unlikely that I would have him in that setting," Meeks said. "It is un-American to make a person wear a banner of guilt before they are proven guilty."

That's true. But like the biblical teaching of "turning the other cheek," this kind of reasoning is hard to live up to when you are being chased by a pack of bullies.

When a man is accused of having sex with teenagers, seeing little girls jump up and down screaming his name in adoration is exactly what you don't want.

Also, there is the speculation that Meeks' involvement with the R. Kelly sex scandal has more to do with a desire to raise his own public profile than it does with Christianity--and that Meeks or Salem Baptist Church are profiting financially from the church's support of Kelly.

"That is absolutely not true," Meeks said. "If anybody can prove that R. Kelly gave me a dime, I will give them five times as much. When I went to Kelly's BET interview, I paid my own plane ticket and I paid for the hotel room I stayed in. The night I was there, not even a Coca-Cola was purchased for me."

Meeks said he didn't solicit Kelly for the position of "spiritual adviser." Kelly called him shortly after the raunchy videotape surfaced.

"I met him about two years ago when Operation PUSH was out at Cook County jail at Christmas and Kelly was there singing," Meeks said. "I came up to him after the service and said, 'Hey man, listen I need to talk to you. I think there are some things that are happening that I can help you with. Here are my numbers.'

"But he didn't contact me until about eight weeks ago. He called me and said it's time for us to have that talk," Meeks said.

"Everybody says the guy needs help, but the helper shouldn't be Meeks. Then who should be helping?" he asked.

Kelly is blessed to have a spiritual adviser. I wish Meeks had bumped into Tracy Sampson or Tiffany Hawkins instead. Maybe then the black community wouldn't have to endure another sex scandal.

Both of the women were girls when they claim they were lured out of the choir to engage in sex acts with the superstar. Hawkins was so devastated by the relationship she attempted suicide. Sampson had to drop out of college when the details of her relationship with Kelly became public.

Where was Meeks then?

"I am positively available to talk to the women now," Meeks countered on Monday. "I try to remain impartial. I haven't taken sides."

But Meeks has taken sides. Because he is also a community leader, his private role as spiritual adviser has made him a public cheerleader for the singer. That's the problem.

When community leaders choose to support accused sex offenders while ignoring victims (Meeks also gave former congressman Mel Reynolds a hero's welcome), it perpetuates the myth this kind of sexual behavior is part of black culture.

Kelly should have been at Salem praying, not singing.

Prayerfull, again, I am disgusted. This is what I mean by coddling. I know some will disagree with me, but I agree with the writer of this article. He had no business leading kindergartners in anything.
Let us assume that the man is innocent. When it comes to children and spiritual ministry, we must still err on the side of caution. For example, I believed Rev Jesse Jackson should have stepped aside, albeit for a while, when his extramarital affair came out.
Then there is Rra. Rev meeks must have really thought he was correctly advising him when he decided to take a man accused of child porn to lead a graduation. Some people are remarkable.

TLAW, my brother, you make excellent points. The behavior of publicity hound Ministers should inflame all church-goers. Why bring a man who has a history of crimes against children around them. The symbolism is awful. Self-serving preachers should be called on the carpet.

I definalty feel you on this, but it is not as simple as it seems. As a health educator I DO teach abstinence. If you are not doing anything then you cannot catch anything. You know the repsone I get from these "babies". Everyone keeps saying abstience but no one is listening, so why do people keep saying it. Why do I say it, so you will know that IS an option for you.

The first issuse that needs to be adressed is why are teenagers are so pressed to have sex in the first place. And the answer is simple. Think back to when you were in Junior High or H.S. (it may take a little longer for some :) )what were your hormones saying? Did you have a "signficant other" and how much older/ younger were they than you. And here is the kicker, how old were you when you lost "it"? When you answer these questions then you have answered what will work for these girls AND guys. Everyone is saying talk to them and get the families involved, nice but did it work for you?

This R Kelly case is one of the extremes ( not a rarity). 14 and a 34 year old. But what about the 15 and the 18 year-old and the 16 and the 19 year old? If your daughter was 16 and had a 19 year old boyfriend, or your son had the younger girl.....how would you react?

It's not fair to put the 16 and 19 year old in the same category as R. Kelly. Their experiences and maturity level are not particularly different in most cases. There is no blanket statement on age, you have to use the sense God gave you to decide what is appropriate and what is not.

If this is going to become a discussion, maybe this should be a new thread instead of in the R. Kelly one.

Interesting, Riley, interesting. These issues came out recently in a a controversy pertaining to a book written by some lady exploring the same age difference issues. I am sure you know what I am referring to, since you are probably more of an expert on that topic.
And, for the record, I do agree that abstinence should be taught as an alternative.

Why not. The legal system sees no dofference? Satuatory rape is termed when an adult 18 years and older has sex with a minor, anyone who is younger than 18. If you do not think it is fair, tell that to the parents of teens who have sued and won.

I Agree
 

This is what I want to know...
 

Why is it when controversy strikes everyone has an opinion and wants to put their two cents in. But when all the drama has died down and the media coverage has faded their is no more talk of the situation except when used as a frame of reference or as a joke.

Several people asked wht can you do (however big or small) to slow down these occurances? It could be antying from talking to your peers, little sister and brothers. To having a class dicussion or working in the field. It doesn't have to be dramatic. What bothers me is when people have so much to say about controversial issuses but are not willing to aid in the solution.

That is just my two cents!:) :rolleyes:

The age of consent is lower than 18 in a lot of places 15/16 is pretty common these days.