Re: Re: IMAGE is IMPORTANT
 

Sooooo, those WGOL's do not represent all WGLO's, but yet, the opinion of a few BGLO members represent all BGLO's and its members????:confused:

Re: Re: Re: IMAGE is IMPORTANT
 

I have read all of the posts in this thread, some are rather disturbing, some are rather informative. To be honest, i can post whatever i want it can be an opinion and it doesn't have to be "logical knowledge" and I don't really know much about bglos, hence, my "logical knowledge" is kinda limited, but i stated that toward the end of my post :) I was just wanting to know because i know that many historically white glo's don't go out and promote a "white community" because in all honesty, many of them aren't comprised off all white members, but of a mix of many many races, not just black or white. So ok, it wouldn't involve pushing out or phasing out the "black community" but if the wglos brought up this topic, we'll say my glo, psd brought this up, would it be viewed as racist?

About the omega comment, i never said that all of the posts in this thread represent all views of all members in bglos, i just made a statement that what happened in that incident doesn't reflect all wglos.

About the whole naacp and naawp, for clarification, those are two completely different groups, and the naawp is shit. It is a racist movement, a slap in the face of the establishment of the naacp, and I don't view it as relevant matter to this subject. I hate the naawp as much as the kkk, f(#(#ng stupid skinheads and any other racist organization out there, including the black panther party, I don't agree with any group that ppposes/oppresses/discriminates against another group because of their race, gender, sex, sexual preference, religious infliction, physical and/or mental handicaps and on and on.

It's just, the african american members that we do have are proud, and damn proud, and when i read comments like, "why would the join" or "they should use their resources to help their people" it makes me wonder if they are truly happy being brothers, you know?

d

Cute...
 

As to cute....

I was referring to the pictures on the website showing 'nooses', people smiling in their outfits and etc.....that's what I meant about people thinking such was 'cute'. The people in those pictures seemed/looked as though they were having a fabulous time. I didn't see anyone in those pictures that look like, 'what the heck is this...this is sooo wrong!' That's all I was saying.

I understand what you are saying...not all WGLOs are not like that. But that's the same way on this board. All BGLO are not saying this and only certain members of these groups have these views. Just like with WGLO The people on these boards don't even represent 1% of each organization. But, as previously stated, I guess the problem is that its being discussed on a
public forum.

And maybe in your organization its never discussed...but obviously in some WGLOs this is an issue from these most recent incidents.

I personally don't see a problem with this topic. Even if this topic wasn't posted, some members are BGLOs (not wanting non-AAs) and WGLOs (not wanting non-whites/blacks)would feel this same way. So what difference does it make if we discuss it. Closing down a thread is not going to change anyone's feeling.....maybe it will make some more comfortable. Why? I don't know......
To be honest...this has been a hot topic in BGLOs for a long time. 2 years ago...there was a big write up in Ebony magazine about whites in black organization and why they chose them. Its always talked about amongst us.

Re: Cute...
 

I don't think the thread should be closed either, we are all adults here right? I just don't like to see the personal attacks that everyone throws out when it gets heated, i mean, hell if we all keep it kewl, we could express all our views, all learn something, i know i can because i don't know much about bglo's, and i'd like to learn a little, for reference and some kind of understanding.

About the cute thing, yea, it's a sick situation, sadly, shit like that does still happen, maybe all those people involved were ingnorant sob's or they thought they were "fitting in" or something or other.

True, not even 1% of our orgs are represented here, but for some people, that is al lthat it takes, that one person, that one time, that one thing for a person to form stereotypes, form racism, or form some other kind of negative view toward that group of people. But like I said, I would like to think of the many of us as better educated in a situation like that..ya know?
d

Re: "they" got some NERVE! ("they" gotta deal with racism TOO!)
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by APhiAce
They aint none of our MASTERS! We are FREE! We have the right to express our opinions. If this topic is too REAL for them, then they need to skip this thread.

And "they" have the right to express their opinions. Whether it be in this forum, or any other. The same as the people who continually post about racist issues in other forums where again - no solutions are ever found. And the MASTERS issue -- dang, let me run out back and tell paw that the plantation house has to close because there ain't no more masters on GC.

I don't interpret homosexuality in line with our founders criteria for someone who exemplifies Manhood (which is different from just being male)...just my interpretation. Further it is unrealistic for everyone to full agree with EVERYTHING their org says. So if homos get in, its a personal problem for me, not the Frat at large.

I can totally agree with your interpretation of what your founders say - it is your organization and you are welcome to whatever interpretation of that you wish. And yes, times have changed - in our social code, it still says that gentlemen must always be present with a chaperone in the parlor room, and should never be allowed to see the private quarters of the women's house. So I would agree that it is unrealistic for everyone to fully agree with everything their org says -- times they are a changing :)

1) A certain group of people have been (and continue to be) oppressed by another group of people. I fall into the category of the ones oppressed so those are MY PEOPLE. 2) White people aren't racially oppressed by anyone so there is no need to FOCUS resources on that race. Blacks and people of color are...thus the need to look out for ourselves (because our white oppressor DEFINITELY are not) I don't have anything against helping someone in need. 3) But white people in need have more resources available than Black people in need. So I'm gonna focus the FEW resources we do have for us ON US! Like I said, I don't have a problem if a white person gets helped by us. Our resources are for us SPECIFICALLY, and others COINCIDENTALLY. I'm targeting helping OUR neighborhoods. If whites live in our neiborhoods, then they will be helped too. 4) Racism implies a power to oppress, which NO BLACK person HAS...There for I can't be racist. I can however be descrimatory and prejudice. Racism, Descrimination, and Prejudice are DIFFERENT words for a REASON (all though they are related).

1) We've had the "my" people discussion on here a million times before -- unfortunately, it seems that many blacks think that they are the only ones with "my" people. I guess that "my" people would include people of all colors and backgrounds. Since "American" isn't recognized as a category, I have to use my ancestors roots which are Scottish, Irish, African American (I'm also still under the assumption that Jesus was a man of color), German, Italian, Spanish, and English. Of course this isn't entirely accurate as my great-grandfather on my father's side was a horse thief and instead of being caught he moved and changed his name - so who knows if I have the rest of the UN in my blood.

2) It seems that on here some white people are being opressed due to race. And nothing else! Just like my momma says - life's not fair, but if you get out there and speak up for yourself, then no one has the power to hold you back. I think that is what we are all trying to do on here (speak up that is) just with different backgrounds to lead us.

3) White people in need have more resources? Hmm...I have done volunteer work for a wide variety of organizations including womens shelters, the Salvation Army, the United Way, Big Brothers/Sisters, etc. etc. and none of them have a checkbox on the application that says "whites check here for your additional resources" -- If white people had a program that was 100% solely dedicated to the uplifting of whites in need and the empowerment of whites, it would be racist...thus the existance of the KKK and the ignorant people who would be so bold as to create a naawp. The sole purpose of both is to promote hatred and I don't see either as being proudly served by ANY person on this board.

4) Yes, they are different words, but this is why there are different connotations for each as well. And the connotations for each can all be used interchangably depending on the situation or circumstance.

1) I can see your point about using the f*g word. I can use whatever word gays prefer for their behavior...it all means the same thing to me. There is no need for me to try and make them angry with a word they don't like. 2) As far as the harshness of what I'm saying...the racial problem (which in my opinion is as relevant and strong as ever) is more harsh for Blacks then any white could EVER imagine. We deal with it EVERYDAY...but when it comes across some whites computer screen they want to BAN the conversation so that they don't have to deal with it. The reality is that life is unfair. And it is MORE unfair for Blacks than whites. The scale is tipped in the favor of whites. I will use ALPHA to help BALANCE the scale. If I equally add weight to both sides of the scale, it will NEVER be balanced. Therefore, I'm adding ALL my weight to the BLACK SIDE!

3)...Kudos to any white people who are trying to balance the scale...I appreciate it.

1) - thanks for seeing my POV about the negative connotation of that word.

2) I don't buy that your problems are more harsh than I could ever imagine because of my skin color. Why? Because you don't have any more of an idea of how white people can be and are treated by others on a daily basis? Don't tell me "its a black thing, you wouldn't understand" (using it as an example, not a quote of yours) when you wouldn't understand where I come from either. The unfairness issue depends on which side of the fence you are standing (or of the scholarship in my case when I was denied 4 different scholarships based SOLELY on my skin color - I guess that my being white meant that I had *other resources* for getting through college...thus the loans that I still have). None of us has the right to say that the other has it harder because we don't know of each others lives and what we deal with on a day to day basis.

3) I say kudos to EVERYONE who tries to make a difference in their own little corner of the world. This is how solutions come about - when people try. Not when people sit around and point fingers and try to one up each other over who has the worst deal in life.

Again, as I was taught..."We do not hate. Period." I never heard an exception to this rule growing up -- and I was never allowed any excuses as to why my life wasn't lived with thanksgiving for what I do have. I am one person - I do not speak for all whites, my or any GLO, all women, etc. I can only speak for myself -- and that is what everyone should be doing.

(I'm trying to be succint and combine some posts here so I don't end up quoting from all of them)

Happydaysf91, you say in your post:

"But what message do you think was sent to AAs by the WGLOs who mocked the Omegas? (as I recalled, it was a sorority and two fraternities at that party. And from the pictures everyone thought it was very cute and got a good laugh)? To me, it said that we don't want black people in our orgs. What message was sent to AA young women when the WGLO sorority didn't select the AA girl because other WGLO fraternities and sororities wouldn't want to have parties with them (at least that's what the article said)? To me, that says...some white people don't want us in their stuff?"

Well, in reply, I can't say it any better than to quote Dexter in two previous posts:

"So let me understand that if one member of an organization feels that way, then you indict ALL [W]GLOs? Do you see how asinine that sounds?"

"Because she not only contradicts herself, but judges an entire group of people because of the way a few of them feel."

I didn't think it was cute in the least -- and I certainly did not feel like any of the offending parties represented my personal views or the views of my org. If its not okay for one person to judge an entire group because the way a few of them feel, then its not okay for others to do the same thing. Especially not in the case of extreme ignorance such as the blackface situation.

Your next quote:

"Basically, you will find people in both groups...WGLOs and BGLOs who don't want people of other races in their organizations. This is their personal opinion. Not the opinion of the entire organziation!!! And people have right to their own opinion. I think the problem here (why people think they are being bashed or etc.) is that people are trying to convince others that they are wrong or sway their opinions! And its not working....... "

I agree, it is sad that some people in ALL orgs don't want people of other races to join. Its not just a white thing, and no, as I previously stated, it shouldn't reflect upon the entire organization. But I don't think that sharing a POV is the same as trying to convince another person to change their mind. We have seen in the past that that doesn't work anywhere - on here or in the "real" world beyond GC.

Next you say:

BTW....Racism still runs rampant in this country...it's just not as VISIBLE!! I know I experience it all the time....even if its just someone clinching their purse in the elevator, a white store clerk looking funny when you pay with a credit card, or simply a waiter adding in a tip to my charge because you know 'black folk don't tip'.....its all the same. And I have my JD, CPA and MBA and this still happens sometimes....So yes, its very alive!!!!! It may not be blantant, but it is living and breathing.....

I know that it still exists, and will always exist because people are people, and as such we will all carry different stereotypes of how we *think* others are. I also get to experience racism all the time -- one example is from black folks who think that its not right that I have a brother who is black. Do these ignorant few represent the entire black population - nope. So do the ignorant few that would act the fool to you on the elevator, in the store, etc. represent the entire white population...nope again. Its not fair that you have to deal with that mess -- its not fair that ANYONE should have to deal with issues because of their skin color. Which is why I make myself available on public opinion boards to say that and to offer my POV.

Damasa, in your post you say:

What if the organization had members that brought up the topic of sketching african-americans joining or being members already? They started saying they should be weary or they don't want them to come in and trying to "blackwash" the fraternity and use the resourced to help out "their people."

This is where I think there is a distinct difference -- never would I question the membership of a red, green, yellow, black, or purple person who sought membership in my org based on their skin color. And my sisters at the chapters I work with don't either. If you want to join us, then meet our 5 criteria and show us that you will be a value to the org and not just want the letters for your own personal gain. Have other members of WGLO's done it? Yes they sure have...have other members of BGLO's done it -- looks like it according the responses here. Is it fair in either? Not in my opinion because its never right to judge someone based solely on the skin color. Regardless of who is doing the judging. There should not be a double-standard when skin color is concerned.

You also say:

"To be fake for even a second is to be fake for all of your life"

I just love that quote.

Honeykiss1974, you say:

Please go and check out www.naacp.com and ww.naawp.com and compare the two.

I wouldn't honor the naawp with the number on their guest book to even consider viewing that mess. No more than I would sit here and look up stuff on the KKK for what I would consider "information" about them. Obviously some people are fools. I don't think its fair to compare the two because one obviously represents hatred. There is no white counterpart to the NAACP. I don't agree with the NAACP anymore than I agree with the KKK or the naawp -- because I think that segregation is wrong on all parts, and its not fair to say "you can't have your own group but we can" and then promote it as equality. I do however agree with the laws of this great country which entitles everyone to their opinion.

Happydaysf91 -- I did, for the record, read your most recent post, where you say:

not all WGLOs are not like that. But that's the same way on this board. All BGLO are not saying this and only certain members of these groups have these views.

I was quoting these in order of the posts, which is why I called attention to your post previous to this one. (Just didn't want anyone accusing me of not reading all the posts.)

I guess that my feelings are that people are different and will always be different. Its only a bad thing when people start using that as an excuse to create problems with others. Like I said - race is never an issue in the chapters I work with. Never. I'm sorry that its not that way in all org's (black and white) because I think a sister is a person that I will love unconditionally. Sure - things happen and she and I may disagree or even be totally pissed at each other. But that doesn't in any way elevate my status over her because we are sisters. And that is the way it should be.

I can't control each and every situation. I can't make the ignorant folks (of all colors) who think that I shouldn't have a brother of another color change their mind. I can't make the ignorant people who use racial slurs and protests to create drama change their mind. I can only control what I THINK, SAY, AND DO. And if I'm not making my Creator proud, not to mention my family and friends, then I'm not making myself proud...and there is no way to fool yourself in this situation.

Again, to quote my momma "We don't hate. Period."

AXO Alum,
Please go to the NAACP's & NAAWP's website and read it before you make judgements about the orgs based on what you have heard. The NAACP does not believe in segregation, nor will you find a "you can't have your own group but we can and then promote it as equality" type of mentality.
I truly believe (like I stated in a earlier post) that before we can offer solutions, everyone must have a clear, true understanding as too what's really going on - and not what you THINK is going on.

To everyone:
I believe that education for another's culture can foster appreciation for that culture. Education for the AA culture comes in more forms that just a MLK program during the month of February or having that one or two black friends that you knew from high school. It requires a person to "step out" and do something new. For example, (I'll use my culture) go next door and actually have a talk with your AA neighbors. Maybe read the Autobiography of Malcolm X. Go and attend the African AMerican Family Reunion in your local area. Small things like this is where education and maybe understanding can start.

This whole conversation is going no where fast. It started off as an intelligent discussion and it has turned into an emotional bunch of mess. Those people are only citing posts that they can pick apart to make thier own arguments stronger and are totally ignoring numerous posts that differ from their ASSUMPTIONS of what African Americans believe. I find it interesting that certain people DID NOT want this conversation to take place at all, those people came to this forum and it has turned into nothing but emotionalism and attacks, and now it will DEFINATELY be closed soon because they can prove that this thread is against GC terms. I wonder did they accomplish thier mission and did we fall right into the trap????????

Agree w/ Virtuous
 

I must say...that I totally agree with Virtuous. We all can pick apart another's comment and quote different sections that stirs anger in others...but did you really get the point of the post?....I really don't think I like that function after this thread ;) ....

Really....if you quote a person, you probably should quote the entire post....taken out of context, some things which are innocent turn into something that it really is not.....just like my quote in regards to the Omega/WGLO sorority...my point was simple: both groups have people with these opinions; we must respect each others' opinions; and the people on this board are not representive of our entire orgnanizations. However...by taking pieces...that point was lost. :(

This is just my opinion....I guess right now...its on to another thread or let's continue the topic at hand (not JUST responding to others)......;) I'll start it off....as previously stated by me....

I don't have a problem with either...as long as you pay your dues and stay active..... If I run into a white (or non-AA) or homosexual soror....I'll greet her just the same as my AA sorors.:D

More Comments
 

I have not been able to read every post but I must say this. The tone is not a intellegent but emotional. People understand this...people that state they do not want Whites and Homosexuals in their orgs because if these people become the majority they feel that the interest of the organization will be LOST. Now the other side of the argument is that if we fight for equality how can we deny others thier rights. None of these people in the BGLOs have the intention of offending people but stating their opinion! I have stated mine already! PLEASE be mindful of the tone.

Sphinxpoet

my 13. cents
 

Well I know quite a few non black members in Delta, and I like them very much and welcomed them into Delta. The non black members I know were all raised in an urban community and basically never really associated with whites/latinos in high school/college. So they joined a organization they felt comfortable with.

So I ask the question: What if you know that this member was raised among blacks and that's all they have ever known? Would you feel different or you wouldn't care?

Let me just say that black and white greeks got together one time at my school to express our opinions about each other. It got emotional but it came down to this:

White Greeks: We think you guys are cool, but we REALLY don't consider you greek because your chapters are so small, you weren't founded in the 1800's, and you don't have houses or money like us.

Black Greeks: We think you guys are cool, but we REALLY don't consider you guys greeks, because you guys don't really pledge, you take in a lot of members who pay a fee and drink a lot all day.


Just telling you what the jist of this meeting was about, I wonder if more white/black greeks feel like this and just don't want to say anything.


QTE;)

Re: Agree w/ Virtuous
 

Happydaysf91, I am including the WHOLE quote here -- just a few posts after mine on page 5, you only quoted one of my paragraphs too. The great thing about being able to quote someone on here is that we don't have to keep re-quoting the entire posts to make a point. And I think that EVERYONE is guilty of taking posts out of context -- which is why I made my statement about DZRose.

To everyone - I really don't understand it. When people are offended then they are called cowards for not speaking out. When people do speak out, they are accused of setting a trap to have the thread closed. Which way is it? And yes, I'm assuming that statement was to me because NO ONE else is left with a dissenting view of all of this.

And it has gotten emotional on ALL parts because obviously you can't discuss why you would or would not allow someone to join without stating your FEELINGS about a person based on his or her skin color. (Which is why I said that I was glad AXO has 5 criteria for all the world to see which doesn't include race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.)

I'm not here to tell anyone who they can or cannot choose and what to base it on. I'm just trying to say that when a thread calls out two distinctly different sectors of humanity, then the racial tone is set.

If someone says "I don't want a white person in my group" then fine -- but I don't want to hear $hit about it if someone else says "I don't want a black person in my group" -- but we've all seen that this doesn't work that way. Look at all the numerous locked threads on Greek Life about race.

I have had many non-whites in the chapters I work with. In fact, more than half of the chapter right now is non-white. I guess that leaves my conscience clear when I think about the true meaning of sisterhood to me.

Sphinxpoet - thank you for your other post. I thought your words were very appropriate to everyone.

DELTAQTE - I was glad to read that your greeks came together at your school. I hate that it wasn't a better outcome for you (you meaning your greeks, school, etc.). We are currently working on a project at school that would involve all of the greeks coming together. I will wish for better progress on all parts for this project. If you have any suggestions for me, could you please PM me - I would like to bring these type outcomes to the table with me as we prepare to meet, so we can further foster the greek spirit on a campus where we as greeks are not wanted period. Thanks!

White or Homosexual members
 

Through my undergrad chapter we had one white soror come through (this was in the early 90's. And more recently we had a hispanic soror, who was and is a FANTASTIC member.(she has since graduated) And as far as a person, she is the creme of the crop. She was better than some of our AA sorors as far as working for SGRho, her character etc. Now I have never met an openly gay soror, but I would treat her with the same respect I would any soror of SGRho. Now..can I understand those who are totally against whites or gays in their orgs? Yes.. because we all were raised differently, our life experiences, religious beliefs etc. So I do not think that there is a right or wrong answer to this question, it is just a matter of what YOU believe. I do not have a problem with whites or gays in SGRho. But I could easily have a problem with whites being in SGRho, just from my personal experience with white people in general.(So that is why I understand when some have said HELL NO to whites being in their orgs) I have been called *N* B*&%^h by white
people, I have been discriminated more times than I care to remember by white people. And as an undergrad the white sororities had a stepshow, where it seemed as if they were making fun of us, but yet Zeta Tau Alpha stepped on a regualr basis an even won at a Black Greek Stepshow. Also at a GREEK WEEK function (where black and white Greeks were together), after we did our call some white frats had the nerve to repeat our call and laugh. IT TOOK EVERYTHING IN ME AND MY SORORS TO NOT BEAT SOME SERIOUS A##!!!!!! :( We had to work with a white male frat...who never returned our calls, so we just said F*&^ it! So...I can see this question from all sides. But I still feel that I have to take it on an indivdual basis or else we could be missing out on some great people. And for those who think this thread should be closed, I do not agree. There is "NOTHING" wrong with expressing your opinion. If the thread gets heated... so what! That is the whole problem with race or homosexuality, people think if we do not talk about it, then it will go away. It won't so it is better to be real and try and deal with it. And at least try and see other people views....you might learn something! :)

Tenacious1922

This is the opinions of Tenacious1922, not Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority, Inc.

Re: my 13. cents
 

I think that a lot of Black and White Greeks feel like this, but people are afraid to speak up. We really do not understand where each other is coming from at times. It is a shame that it is 2002 and we still have so many issues with race and just plan misunderstanding of one another.

Tenacious1922

Hispanic Members
 

I don't have a problem with Latino's becoming members of BGLO's. We have shared many of the same struggles and they are of African descent.
I do understand that there are those whites that have grown up only around blacks, etc. And in my experience those are the ones that have called me N***** first.. So no I still would not vote for them.

Sorry for being gone so long. Just wanted to let you know that I have never asked for this thread to be closed and I also have never asked for anyone to be banned because of posts they made here. I didn't set a "trap" and I surely didn't have an underlying "mission" when I posted my thoughts. In fact, the ONLY "mission" I had was to state my viewpoint -- which happens to be the same "mission" that I am on anytime that I post on GC.

I strongly resent the implication that the white GCers who have posted on this topic jumped into the thread in an attempt to stir up controversy and get the thread deleted from GC. If you don't want us to give our viewpoint, then don't post a topic titled "White or Homosexual Members" on a message board that has both white and homosexual members!

I cannot believe that you actually have accused us of having a secret agenda just because we posted about a topic that concerns us and is staring us in the face everytime we visit GC! Do you have any idea how crazy that notion sounds? :confused:

This whole thread seems like a no win situation. If whites are offended but don't post, then we're cowards and, if we do post, then we're on a "mission" to get certain black members of GC banned and a black thread deleted?!?! Puhleeze. Whether or not you choose to believe it, we're not part of some big conspiracy against the black GC community. We're not out to get you, we're not "oppressors", and we're sure as heck not trying to act as your "masters" as another poster in this thread has claimed. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I think some folks are being way too hasty in judging the motives of white GCers who took an interest in this particular thread. I, for one, simply felt that I should speak up since I was being called a coward by some of you for being offended by the thread and not publicly saying anything about it. Then, when I did speak up, I was accused of contradicting myself, not reading the entire thread before posting, and being blind to the fact that racism exists -- all three VERY untrue accusations, by the way. And people wondered why I didn't want to speak up before???

I don't care. as long as you are doing the intended works of the organization.
 

If I may add my 20 cents..

I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. And know a few non-black members of my beloved sorority.

When selected people for membership, assuming they meet all of the qualifications, I think of three things:
1. The character of the individual
2. What can they offer my sorority
3. After graduation, what are the chances they will be paid graduate members of the organization, continue to work towards its plans of actions, international, national and local projects.

This is a big issue with me.

All due respect to members of WGLO, but the major work of the BGLO is done at the graduate level. It's not about fun and games.
We have a mission. We aim to better our communities of color. We are working to fill a void in some cases. We do so much, but this one of primary goals. If you are non-black, will you be down for this mission?

Will you care that vote turnout in our community is low?
Do you care that AIDS unpropotionally effects African Amercians and do are willing to do what you can to help this group specifically?
Do you care that black children are not being adopted?
Do you care that Asthma effects a large number of AA Kids?
Do you care about racial profiling?
Do you care things we do to better the AA community specifically
Will you still care if our missions are not direct for your race?

I know there are several white member of Zeta Phi Beta, but when I go to my Boule' (International Convention), I see slim to none. I don't know of many whites who continue on at the graduate level.

I don't care what color you are, if you are not willing to work towards the goals of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, inc., we don't need you.

DivineZeta

DZ ROSE
 

First of all, I'm glad that you decided to speak up. But as you sit here and type about untrue accusations. AGAIN let's me know that you are not reading the ENTIRE posts. You've been QUOTED as to you contradictions! Words written by you. Just because you voiced your opinion doesn't mean that we have to agree with it. I want you to voice your opinion. Like damasa said" We are all adults", In reading some of your posts you are misquoting your references and saying things like " racism isn't as prevelant today as it was in 1902" then when someone comments on that being WRONG, your reply is WHY IS EVERYONE PICKING ON ME. You were quoted as saying that some of the posts make you feel as though you wouldn't be welcomed at a BGLO event. But what about the posts whereas blacks are saying " I don't mind non AA coming out and joining or "I have white brothers in my frat that are some of the greatest brothers I know. Those statements you just ignored or just didn't read. Again this is not a personal attack upon you but I want you to try to look at it froma different perspective. As long as we continue to discuss it whether or not we agree, The fact is that the lines of communication is always open.

Hi DZ,

First of all if you have never asked for the thread to be closed then the comment doesn't apply to you.

Secondly, what I meant by the "trap issue" is that this thread began as a intelligent exchange of ideas between posters. There were differing opinions but it did not turn into rudeness or mud slinging until certain people came along. It is a well known fact that once that starts threads are closed on GC. That is all I meant and it does seem a little bit fishy to me.

Third, I find it quite funny that you chose to ignore my entire first post where I pointed out many instances of predominantly white glo's and BGLO's working together. These are things I have peresonally seen myself. Why did you choose not to comment on this at all??? Or the several other posts made my others recognizing willingness to work with others. As I stated before I mean no personal disrespect towards you, just trying to educate.

Just something to think about.

V.E.

VirtuousErudite...
 

I don't really know who you're referring to when you say "certain people came along"... If you could be a little more specific, maybe I'll be able to understand where you're coming from. Right now, though, it seems like this thread was going along without any incident for a while simply because no one was willing to speak up and say, "hey, some of y'all are sounding pretty racist."

When someone finally DID speak up, the person to do it was a white GCer, and it seems like THEN is when things started getting heated - not because the white person said anything rude, but because her viewpoint wasn't received well by the people making the racist comments. I personally don't think any of the white GCers have been rude or participated in mud-slinging of any kind on this thread and, quite honestly, I don't think that the majority of the black GCers have either. It's only a select few who have continued to make some random, rather absurd comments - and that's where the drama can be found.

I didn't ignore your first post. I did read it, and I'm glad that there is a willingness in HBGLO's to work with other (predominantly white) organizations... But the reason that I didn't comment on your first post (or others with a similar message) is because the fact that HBGLO's and HWGLO's sometimes work together isn't the issue of this thread.

I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that HBGLO members work together with HWGLO members on common causes. My sorority did quite a bit with the HBGLO orgs on my campus when I was in school. Alpha Phi Alpha, Delta Sigma Theta and Alpha Kappa Alpha used to help us prepare for our step shows during Greek Week, and we worked with AKA and DST in many philanthropic ventures as well, from planning seminars concerning womens' issues on campus to participating in underprivileged youth activities. So, I'm not saying that working together isn't important, or that it isn't done. I'm simply saying that it is a moot point for this particular thread.

The issue of this particular thread is whether or not members of BGLO's think that white and/or homosexual people should be allowed to join their organizations and, if so, would those individuals be welcomed by the black members.

Some of the responses have been positive, with BGLO members saying "Yes, we'd be glad to have anyone join as long as they are willing to work hard for the projects that our orgs support." That's great! But the problem I have is with the ones who say that they do not feel like an HBGLO is the proper place for a white person and/or that they would not vote for a white person interested in joining. That is discrimination, and that is racism. Pure and simple.

I personally don't believe in the terms "reverse discrimination" or "reverse racism" when describing discriminatory acts against white people. Racism is racism, and it's ugly no matter what form it takes or who it's directed towards. Some of the same people who are posting that they don't feel like whites should be in their groups are the ones who have protested in the past on GC about black girls not receiving bids at schools such as UGA and Alabama.

To me, people are talking out of both sides of their mouths if they think denying someone admittance because of race is an acceptable practice for historically-black organizations, but not an acceptable practice for historically-white ones. It's the double-talk with which I find fault, and it's the double-talk that I directed my previous posts to.

I want you to notice that I've always said "SOME GCers" or "SOME members of HBGLO's" when I've made my statements concerning racist admittance practices among black organizations. I say "some" because I know that certain opinions are not shared by all HBGLO members, and I would not try to lump all HBGLO members into one category that way. That would be very unfair -- just as unfair as saying that all HWGLO's are racist because one chapter of one organization didn't offer a black person a bid.

I hope this clarifies my viewpoint a little. If you would like me to go into further detail, please ask more questions. I'll be glad to answer them.

A Different Angle
 

TO PLAY THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE (and to get everyone's opinion):

Two scenarios:

First.......

BGLO's are founded upon Christian principles. We all know that "a sin is a sin", regardless. If you feel that homosexuals do not reflect upon the Christian foundings of BGLO, would you feel the same way if it was a member that openly slept around with every Tom, Dick, and LeRoy (or Tammy, Donna, and LaQuisha) since pre-marital sex is a sin as well?

Second......

Would it matter if the member was an "openly gay individual" ( attends gay/lesbian functions while in 'nalia, wore fraternity shirt tied up in the front like a crop top) or someone that chose not to "flaunt" their sexuality?

The dialogue of this thread is great. Much like a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. stated even those in BGLO agree to disagree. Again, the views of this thread is not representative of the official position of any BGLO!!!!!!!!!