LOL, Irishpipes!!

Well, the schedule posted above still doesn't help because 2013 has come and gone ....

At least at NC State they're all 3 years apart, not a semester!

I probably know as much about our VCU colonization as anyone, and I know nothing about the timeline...if that gives any indication of its status. Haha.

UNR is open. Greekchat's influence is amazing. ;)

If you're used to a quota of 12, then yes, 27 can feel unmanageable and overwhelming.

Which is not the case at this very large state school.

I find it fascinating that 2 fraternities are currently building on First Street. Sigma Chi is really humming away on the north side of the street. I can not remember the frat building on the south side. I don't think there are any vacant frats on First or Second Street at this time but there are always rumors.

Alpha Chi will start remodeling their facility right after this semester. It should be good to go for recruitment- which they have changed and added another day to set 2. They should help out a lot but they still need to expand. There were 96 women in my daughter's PC in the fall. That is WAY to big to manage. I had heard that they were talking to some sororities about living off the grid so to speak but no one has bought off on that because they don't think they can compete.

ASU is in a housing predicament. The entire Greek community for that matter. The Chapters continue to grow. Total is now set at 173 and they are expecting a huge recruitment for F2014 1500-1800. In addition, there is really not a spot on campus large enough to hold our recruitment AND they do it during school. I think we need to make some major changes to the recruitment schedule and add those 2 houses waiting in the wings. It will be interesting to see what happens this year with recruitment and how big the numbers are but PC class of more then 70 are hard to manage and having no space to meet makes it challenging. Finding a room for chapter meetings is almost impossible. I could go on and on with the challenges of having a facility that only holds 32 women.

As a current chapter member at Alabama, we are in serious need of an expansion. The size of our chapters is getting out of hand, my pledge class ended up being over to 130 girls after the two COB periods that every chapter participated in this year (Fall and Spring).
I feel a new chapter could be very successful with the growing number of PNMs going through recruitment. Alpha Phi and DG are wonderful examples of how well new chapters have done on campus.

I'm a bit surprised, as all the powers that be at Clemson have to do is look down the road at USC's Greek Village that was started about, what, 10-12 years ago? The land is USC's, and the houses were built and are owned by the sororities/fraternities, with certain requirements to meet to stay there. They (Clemsonites) would be able to discern what works and what doesn't.

I think a lot of the problem at Alabama is that they have priced themselves out of the market. There are a couple of groups that are not presently on campus that could probably make the financial commitment, but not all 26 groups could. Additionally, some of the groups not already on campus have zero name recognition in Alabama and would be taking a HUGE risk to go on there. I could see maybe 3 additional NPCs taking the plunge there, but that's about it.

(And all of that is totally my opinion, I don't know the inner workings of any NPC.)

^ I agree. With all of it. And as much as I would love to be back at Alabama, I think it's a big risk to invest that much money, and possibly fail. Especially when you're talking about a house that costs ~ $12 million, plus whatever other fees.

Current total is, I believe, 260...which is pretty staggering. Many chapters are 300+.

The thing is - the present arrangement for building loans with the university is just...unprecendented, anywhere. UA is investing in Greek housing by loaning the money for building. UA owns the land, and always will. If a chapter defaults, UA gets the building. Any other time or place, the chapter would have to go to commercial lenders, which is really difficult with no collateral. It's the best time in history to bring a chapter onto campus.
But it's also the most expensive time.
I can't even wrap my head around a mortgage payment for a $12 million loan.
And what happens when, inevitably, it becomes uncool to be Greek and membership numbers drop?

RE: Alabama Recruitment

What about putting a "cap" on how many women can sign up for registration? I don't recall that being in the Green Book or an unanimous agreement...or perhaps using Arkansas' idea of setting different quotas based on current membership numbers? I'm sure the leaders at Alabama have discussed these ideas before but their enrollment doesn't seem to be slowing down.

Putting a cap on PNM numbers seems unfair to the PNMs. Make it cost more? It already costs $150 for registration by July 15; $200 from July 16-Aug. 1; and $250 onsite through Aug. 8.

I'm not familiar with the different quota concept, but sounds like only a handful of chapters would be doing any recruiting for a year or so.

Add Ohio State to the honorable mention. There are discussions about a second colonization, after Gamma Phi Beta took total last month. Quota has doubled in 5 years.

When I was there, we had 18 chapters and they currently have 16. Zeta Tau Alpha and ADPi still own their houses, and with Phi Mu's success in Ohio, they are anxious to come back.

Chapter total is 360.

Yowza!! What are the totals for Arkansas and Ole Miss?

Not sure if anyone shared Arkansas Panhellenic's 2012 plan with you guys....
http://studentaffairs.uark.edu/image...stribution.pdf

That's right! I thought 260 didn't sound correct. Thanks, 2013PNM!

Just a few random comments on that...

1. Those chapter sizes are all over the map (the 2 newest excluded of course). Have they stabilized somewhat since then?

2. This is the second time I've read a university/panhel talking about "NPC rules for extension" re how many chapters can come on and how quickly. Is there really such a thing? Every campus is different, and I've never heard of anything like "campuses can only expand after the new chapter has been there x years" or anything. It sounds like a new brothel law.

3. STOP USING THE PHRASE REACH OUT BEFORE I REACH OUT AND SMACK YOU.

LOL at number 3. Toooo true!

Also, it sounds funny coming from my former bed rush campus that used to place less than 40% of the girls who rushed.

Me too! Where did that "reach out ..." phrase come from? Makes me want to throw up. Means absolutely nada!!

Totally agree about the chapter sizes. That seems like a big red flag. I know they mentioned the variable quota, but that to me sounds like a recipe for 1) fewer women being placed / higher drop out rates; 2) could harm the smaller chapters with an even greater misconception than normal that they "take anyone". On the other hand, how do you play catch up when you're talking about 100-200 women instead of 20 or 30?

Also - that powerpoint was basically the least visually interesting thing I've seen in a long time.

The variable quota was already used in Fall 2013 at Arkansas. That slide show is old. As for adding 3 NPCs by Fall 2016 - it is already spring 2014 and they aren't even open for expansion let alone slated anyone to come on. I highly doubt anyone else is going to want to colonize until the 2 new groups have some huge issues resolved.

Irishpipes, are the two new groups still in the dorms?

I thought it was going to be a really interesting experiment bringing on two colonies at once. I think we can put that one to bed - not a good idea. But I bet they will have to do MORE expansion before things can start to balance out, not put it off until balance happens. But one at a time from here on out. I don't see a way for a chapter to catch up to those kinds of numbers without looking some kind of desperate or doing some variation on a colony re-expansion. Or without bringing down chapter total over all, which will only happen with expansion.

The problem at Arkansas is the administration's roadblocks to housing. The 2 new groups colonized in Fall 2012 and no progress has been made to house them competitively.. They are still in Walton Hall with no plans in sight.

Additionally, there are 2 recently chartered fraternities (Beta and KA) that are unhoused as well. I think the new chapters are doing well all considered. Expansion was WAY overdue in Fayetteville. I believe it only took the last group (AOPi) 2 years to get their house...but much different with new 4 GLOs competing for housing along with existing chapters.

A couple more random comments

1. Is Arkansas the type of campus where PNMs have the best chance to be successful at recruitment freshman year? Is that why the PPT mentioned that the two newer chapters should have COB to recruit spring transfers?

2. The slide with the benchmark chapters, how did Nebraska get thrown in there randomly?

3. Also mentioned is that chapters need to believe that the campus will help with securing housing yet the only place mentioned is Walton Dorm. Do they think that will suffice in the long run?

I do know the Wesley Foundation property which is at the end of sorority row has been sold to "someone" for a house. It may be a big enough property for 2. but I doubt it.
Property has been found for them closer to the student union which is a win, win.

As for AOII's house only taking 2 years, that is because we had a lot at the time of colonization. The 2 years were spent actually building the house. The situation now is totally different. These groups can't get lots. They can't even start the process of building. It is totally unfair to them but the administration holds all of the cards.

I just got sucked down the Zillow wormhole for about 30 minutes (it's a corollary to the well-known Wikipedia effect). It looks like the Pi Phi and KD houses are surrounded by single-family homes and maybe a couple of apartment complexes. Is there absolutely no willingness to sell among those homeowners?

My grandmother lived a few blocks away from the Pi Phi house, a block off campus. When she died, the university declared eminent domain and knocked down her big old house (ditto for several houses around it as the elderly owners died) and slapped down a parking lot. Never mind that she and my grandfather were longtime UA employees.

The AOII House backs up to it now; an older apartment complex used to be there. I'm surprised that the university hasn't extended its reach down towards the Pi Phi and KD houses and knocked down more houses and apartments.

There are a few buildings on Maple that seemingly could be removed for sorority expansion. At least a few of them are actually affiliated with the university so one would think the space would be made available to house these groups.

Walton Hall has been slated for demolition since before AOII colonized (which was why they were willing to let us use it until our house was built, but then they found black mold so we never used it.). Now that will be an ideal location for fraternity housing. It is on Stadium Drive along with many other fraternities. However, unless their plans have changed (which may very well be the case) that space was not going to be used for new fraternities.

I hope that no one tried to suggest that the sororities build on Stadium, lol. My freshman dorm was there and we could hear fraternity racket day and night. I can just imagine: a sorority would be having initiation or some glamorous party and through the windows they would be hearing rebel yells and Hog calls.

If I am reading correctly, the parking lot on Carnation's grandparent's lot (now University-owned) could be made available (University willing) a building lot?

I don't know. I haven't been back since her death (1989) so I'm not sure if the lot covers the whole property but there was a parking lot next to it already. This used to be a block of large, gracious, beautiful white houses. :(

That is sad. I love older neighborhoods with that character. : (

I do notice from Googlemaps that there are quite a few parking lots that are just as large as the house lots. Seems like some 2-3 story parking structures could be erected in the area and free up some space.

Irishpipes/Carnation - Do either of you know about the old DG house? Did they sell to UA or is UA leasing it?