I know I stereotype, doesn't mean it's right, but don't we all? Regardless, let's get back to my situation: Time and time again, I have failed to "qualify" as a black enough from high school on thru college. When I tried to do what I was "supposed to": join the African Cultural clubs, Caribbean Cultural groups, etc, I did not feel accepted, but I also didn't like them. So, I moved on to drama, my sorority, and other clubs that had nothing to do with race and I made more friends there and felt more accepted and appreciated there...So, now, I just don't even bother! And the beautiful thing is is that I don't HAVE to! I learned my lesson. When you are burned over and over, you learn to not put yourself in that fire again. It's a waste of both my time and theirs, usually. The two black women I am friends with have been persecuted the same way. For example, we are both chastized for dating outside of our race, both of us have been asked "Why you talk so white?" while the person's nose is scrunched up and eyes rolling, and both of us have found that WE DON'T NEED TO PLEASE ANYONE BUT OURSELVES! I am tired of having to justify WHY I don't hang out with any other blacks, I just hang out with people who are like me: we love to laugh, love to have good conversation over wonderful meals, and travel. And I find that the ones who ACCEPT ME FOR WHO I AM AND WHAT I AM have NOT been black!! Why does it BOTHER other black people SO much if I do not to associate with them? I want THAT answered...

Honestly, it doesn't generally bother me. When I saw the situation cited so many times in this thread I wanted to respond, but in my day to day activities, I don't think about it.

I think it's sad, because you are ultimately the one that misses out, but does it make me angry? No. Like I said before, I don't think it makes you a bad person, just misguided.

It seems also like a lot of the issues you have are mixed up. You are confusing class issues with race issues. The behavior you are citing like asking why you "talk so white" is more about class than race (I know some poor white folk that could not speak properly if their lives depended on it). Black people who are not middle class might ask that question, but most middle class black people speak english quite properly. MOST blacks are middle class.

So once again, it comes back to perception. You don't really want to widen your circle. That is ultimately what keeps you from associating yourself with black people, the fact that you don't want to- not necessarily how they treat you. Like I said before, I think that is sad. I wonder how much you honestly like yourself when you refuse to associate with the community you come from(and that is not meant as an insult, but as a true question). But also like I said before, if it makes you happy then do your thing.

Hey, just wanted to let everyone know, so that it doesn't get confrontational, that it is all love! I have respect for all women, black or white, and just wanted to discuss. I a not trying to hate on anybody!

http://www.plaudersmilies.de/remybussi.gif

It bothers me because it makes me wonder if that person is ashamed of their heritage or feels that they are "too good" for their own people. I am not saying this is the case for you. I'm merely telling you want I think/feel.

*Opening the door to put all my business out on the street* I know that when I was seeking sisterhood, I wanted to be somewhere where I felt at home. I looked into the NPHC sororities and NPC sororities on my campus. I even FORMALLY RUSHED. However, in the end I chose an LGLO because as a Latina and an African American, I felt the most at home with my organization. I made the right choice for me, and it feels GREAT!

I often feel that these individuals are not being true to themselves. I have never understood how is it possible to disassociate yourself from people of your own race. That just boggles my mind.

I have been asked by many black people why I never "joined" a BGLO, especially with my organization being so young. I must admit, sometimes that bothers me. But you know what? Instead of focusing I why I didn't "join" a BGLO, I let them know why my organization is the best place for me to be. That always works and often leads to some really great conversations. Maybe you can try that.

I find that most people ask purely out of curiousity and not out of malice. I have never felt like I was to proving my "blackness" to anyone. Maybe that in and of itself is where the real issue lies.

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Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity http://www.sigmalambdaupsilon.org

As usual, I have to say that I can see both Sigmagrrl and Lovelyivy84 points. While I believe that having all types of friends (regardless of race, creed, color, or sexual orientaion) is vital, it's also very hard to make those friends, and keep those friends if you make a decision that does not sit well with them.

Sometimes, Black people can be really hard on one another. I know, I've been ostracized myself! But that doesn't mean I give up on all Black people, stereotype them and walk away. It's just not always easy to please the people around you - especially when they feel they have the right to say something!

Personally I think you should keep an open mind and a welcome hand to everyone. If you attempt to be friends with some of the Black people on your campus and they are unkind to you, shrug and count it as their loss. Because it is! But if someone approaches you and wants to be your friend, got for it! Don't walk away because you've been hurt before. Give it a try.

Wow, this conversation has gotten out of control! I hate that conversations like this always become a black/white issue. I am a hispanic female in a "white" sorority and I don't see what the big deal is, but I guess that's just me.

Actually, I am enjoying this conversation because I always just get ostracized, and no one explains their side or reasoning. I appreciate hearing all of the viewpoints. I guess I just have no desire to even try anymore. I like the way things are for me and have no intention of really altering that....AT THIS TIME! Who knows? Maybe in the future, somewhere down the line, I will encounter someone who will help me see things in a more positive light, and I will of course keep an open heart, as I always do. But right now, my open mind has a SERIOUS toll booth!!LOL
Thanks for the intelligent conversation!

I am also a Hispanic in a "white NPC Sorority" I've never gotten any flak for that since I go to school in Miami. Many NPC groups here are minority dominated or very mixed. Of course, I am sure my organization discriminated in the past, however we've all made progress.

Mari, I don't think that your situation is akin to what we were discussing.

If a sorority's membership nationally is white, but your chapter is not really white, then I don't think you can call it a WGLO. Minorities who join have sisters of a similar ethnic background, who can understand any cultural struggles that they might have. The situation is different...

I think the feeling that you do not associate with Black people out of some level of anger and a rejection of Black people is why they are bothered. You post reflects some hostility over the rejection you felt and the expectation that you should conform to their ideal image of you. I suspect that may come across in person as well. No one should strive to please others. Yhe only opinion that should matter is your own. A true friend does not have to ahve all the smae likes and dislikes you do. I have friends who do ot listen to the same type of music I do at all. That has nothing to do withthe bond between us and the knowledge that we can always rely on one another. Also, you do not have to approve of all of your friends choices. I have opinions about dating men of oter races that differs form one of my closest friends. She is grown nd can date whomever she wants. I don't ahvea a say but our friendship is bigger than her current boyfriend.

I know what it is like to be ostracised, told you look white, talk white. It is always difficult when you find people constantly questioning your identity and trying to define you for you. I am an EXTREMELY light skinned Black woman (can we say could pas for White back in the day if not for certain facial features and my hair texture.) I am not biracial. (outside of a historical context- many African-Amiercans who are decendants of enslaved people are mixed racially) But because of my appearance, people frequently would try to challenge my Blackness growing up. I was educated in a private school from K-12th that was predominantly White. Because I was surrounded by White kids of course I made White friends. I also had Black friends from the few in the school and from activities outside of my school. My parents made sure my social world was diverse so that I had friends of all races. Still, I socialized primarily with White kids growing up.

Sigmagirl, what stands out to me in your post is the fact that you have some anger towards those who have burned you in the past. What I hope for you is that you learn to get past that and open yourself up to friendship opportunities that may otherwise pass you by without you knowing it. You sound like yoor expereinces have caused you to be closed off in that way. (of course, that is reading a post and could be way off base, so forgive me if it is wrong) I think there is a benefit to all people to have relationships with diverse groups of friends. Although I do not know you and cannot say what the real effect any of this will or won't have on you may be, there often is a more deep seeded issue when some one simply does not associate with people of their own race. For some, it reflects an internalization of steroetypes about their own people, for others it is a feeling of rejection turned to anger based on past experience.

If I could know, what I would want to know from you is what relevance do you beleive being a Black person holds in your life? Is it irrelevant to your life? Is it an integral deifning part of who you are or something more happenstance about you? I am NOT asking you to answer me. I just suspect that the way that people answer these questions has a lot to do with their feelings on this topic. For me, being a Black person is a central part of my identity. It is significant to me and about me. I once had someone say to me- as a compliment- "I could almost forget you were Black." I was angry and outraged that they thought that was a compliment. I mean, that is like saying I could almost forget you were a woman as though it was something to be overcome or overlooked and that I should be striving to be something other than Black. If you really accpet me for me you would be able to accept me without forgetting pieces of me.

Anyway, my belief is that there is more to a person's identity than jsut their race but there is a signifcance to that racial identity from a cultural and historical standpoint. This should not dictate what orgs you join. For me, there was no other choice I was interested in than a BGLO (and that HAD to be DST! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif) but to each her own. I just would hope that the choice is not a reflection of anger, disappointment or blanket dislike for members of one's own race.

[This message has been edited by Kimmie1913 (edited May 02, 2001).]

I love fraternity life now, but when I first looked into it I was not happy with what I saw. Now, I am in a multi cultural fraternity with a vast mixture of races and thoughts. Here, color is nothing to us. We have every race in our fraternity, even caucassion. Just my 2 cents.

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Dongkun "Papi Chulo" Ko
Sigma Lambda Beta Fraternity Inc. www.sigmalambdabeta.com
AB Chapter
University of MN
15 0f 27

(Soror Lovely Ivy-- I agree with you on whateva's, cleva and if you truly of Afrikan decent and ain't got no bruhs and sistahs as friends then you've got some issues. And your comments about excuses---RIGHT ON!!!)

For Sigmagrrl:

You seem rather young. NOT immature, just young. Some of silly questions cease importance when you get older and hopefully wiser...

Although I have a personal problem with those African Americans that decide to obviously reject their own and join organizations where I have seen "XYZ" fraternity and White Race on their t-shirts, I really don't have any kinda time to educate Black people on their concept of Asil, because, out here in SoCali, I'm worried about how I am going to pay for my light bill http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif--FOR REAL!!! But just like I said, it's my personal problem and I need to work it out on my own...

Some folks cain't see for lookin'!!! In fact when I discuss similar issues with "the most "vile" perpatrators of all that is racist--The White Males--for some reason they agree with me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif... And I'm talkin' bout the kind that call US out our names!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif Not the kindler and gentler--liberals... And for some reason I can make friends with these guys who are the Kard Karryin' Kind http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif... And it's usually when I'm talkin' 'bout Afrikans in amerikkklan, the utamawazo, the "Auset Papers" and sovereignty in the same sentances http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif... It don't make no kinna sense!!! It's irony at it's best...

But skeriously, I suspect you go to a school that is predominently caucasian--that is how you rushed your sorority... If your school is public, that means anybody can attend if they fulfill the requirements. So you basically get anyone attending. Most Black folks going to a public university come from a family background of "the first to GO TO College"... Since, folks come with their own cultural mores and family values when they are from the "ghetto" and see you--the assimilated object of the oppressors (kidnappers)--then, how can you expect them to EVER be nice to you?!?!? Especially when you are inadvertantly belittling their upbringing? Hell, they already get it from the police officers that just killed their friend!!! Why the HELL should they hear it from you, too? And don't tell me you have never said to a Black Man, "If only you just got off your butt and worked..." Because I know you have!!!

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited May 03, 2001).]

Sigmagrrl, just a question: Did you say you were raised around white people? I ask you this because I can seriously relate. I was was in all-white classes, had white friends, BUT my mother saw to it (when she noticed this at an early age) that I got a taste of OUR culture and enrolled me in different activities that exposed me to other black people. That helped me out a lot in meeting other people like me and getting to know my ethnic group. Again, this is when I was young so I really cannot imagine being "sheltered" like that and then going off to college & trying to "fit in" at 18 or older. Not saying that "you're too late" or anything like that, but I was just curious to know if you were even exposed to black people?...not just as acquaintances, but involved in any time of social groups where you interacted w/ people of your own kind. Like someone said earlier in this post, if this is the case, I just feel like you were misguided. And I find it hard to believe that in college (where people are supposed to act like adults) black people are shunning you like they are. Shame on them. I know you're tired of trying, but I cannot stress the importance of knowing your culture and history. And how will you know that if you are not around people of your culture? How will you know where you're going if you don't know were you've been?

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*someday...if it's in God's will*

[This message has been edited by NOWorNEVER (edited May 04, 2001).]

As an African-American in an NPC sorority, I don't feel as if I'm ostracized from the black community at my college. I guess it depends on what sort of school you went to...I know at mine (Ivy League "progressive"), most of the blacks came from backgrounds similar to mine--we were raised in upper-middle-class predominately white areas, but had parents who instilled in us a certain pride in our heritage. There are people who didn't receive the latter, and they're pretty messed up now. I think it's the security in my heritage that I had growing up that made me feel less self-conscious in joining an NPC group. I rushed because I liked what I saw the sisters doing at my campus and in Providence, whereas I didn't see the NPHC groups doing all that much. Plus, I really hit it off with the chapter last year (FYI, we have about a 50-50 white/minority population in my chapter) and I felt comfortable there. Maybe I would feel even more comfortable as an AKA or DST, but that is neither here nor there. I don't feel as if I'm shirking my racial heritage--I'm involved with other activities on campus that are primarily African-American in nature--just not a Greek letter organization.

For the person who said that if a chapter of an NPC group isn't predominately white, it isn't really a "WGLO". Yes it is. People are still going to associate your group as an "WGLO", because of its name, where it's located, or what groups you socialize with on a regular basis--not to mention the national affiliation.

I would get into this more, but I have this stupid model (due Monday) that I have yet to do past the foundation. Grrrr....

Now that I just spent a year reading this thread, here goes:
It must depend on your campus. ECU doesn't have all nine NPHC organizations so pickings are slim for undergrads(2 soroities and 2 Fraternities). But NPC and IFC have some mixed chapters and no one cares, it's not an issue here.
I do have a problem with someone posting that NPC/IFC members only choose a chapter. That is 100% untrue! Some uneducated potential new members go with the flow, but women who have prepared for recruitment have usually looked up each organization.
I am a Kappa Delta because she is a GREAT organization, not because I happen to like Gamma Sigma chapter. I do think it is more difficult for a NPC women beacuse we cannot always join as an alumna so we do have to suck it up and join a college chapter even if we don't fit. That may be a reason many NPC women choose a chapter not a national organization, they are forced into a corner amd choose a good fit, but what NATIONAL organization you choose can make a HUGE impact on your alumnae life and how productive you are in college. It also has to do with legacies, sometimes they are DIE HARD and have to join a certain organization!

I see that several NPHC members have brought up the fact that the predominately White Greek letter organizations had a past filled with racial discrimination. Most can't fathom why an African-American would want to join an organization that wouldn't have given them the time of day 90 years ago. Likewise, I have wondered why a dark-skinned African American would want to join a BGLO that once used the paper bag test. Hell, 90 years ago, the BGLOs wouldn't have wanted them either. Especially if they were the descendent of share croppers, like me. I think the discrimination enacted by the BGLOs is worse than the discrimination enacted by PWGLOS, but that's just my opinion.

I do realize that things have changed drastically since 1906 and 1908. Such things do not happen anymore (I hope) and somehow, people are able to either overlook this ugly part of their organization's history, or it was never an issue for them in the first place. My question is this, if African Americans realize that things are changing within their own organizations (with respect to skin color and social status), why is it so difficult to realize that things are changing in the predominately White organizations as well (with respect to racial diversity)?

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited May 05, 2001).]

Midwest:

Different chapters of almost every BGLO used the paper bag test. Universities were known to use the paper bag tes. MOST social clubs used the paper bag test. So if you wanted to be in a BGLO that never used it, well none of them used it officially but we are all guilty.

The real question of how we hanle ourselves is whether or not we use it now- just like with HWGLO's. If they're not discriminating now, then I have no problem with people who choose to join them. Every org has had it's less wonderful times.

Thank you lovelyivy84. For the most part, I find your post to be refreshing. Although, I don't think the fact that other institutions using the paper bag test is an excuse for fraternities and sororities to use it. There really is no excuse. And though I'm aware that all of the organizations are diverse nationally, I have seen chapters of certain organization in my state, where every member has a certain "look". Progress still needs to be made in this area.

As far as your feelings about HWGLOs today as opposed to 90 years ago, I agree with you. Unfortunately, I don't think that most members of the NPHC see things the way you do. If they did, some of the comments I have read here on Greekchat would not have been made. Thanks again. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited May 05, 2001).]

Thanks Midwest

I did not intend to excuse those discriminatory actions by any means. It was wrong, point blank. I just wanted to note that it was, for that era, the status quo.

There is no excuse for that kind of behavior in the here and now. But I agree, I too have seen certain chapters of different orgs that make you go "hmmm.."

As for the whole NPHC v. HWGLO thing that is to my mind a product of a lack of knowledge about each other. Like most NPHC greeks don't know that HWGLO's have alumnae chapters just like we do- making HWGLO's nothing more than social clubs in their mind. Add to that the rather unsavory social stigma (drinking, etc) of things that are not problems with our orgs (not that ours are problem free by any means) but that we STILL seem to get blamed for (since most white people cant tell a BGLO from a WGLO, they think we're all the same), and people think they can throw rocks.

We just need to make an effort to know and understand each other, IMO.

Just to get my two cents in......
Although I do not know what it feels like to be a black/hispanic/asian women, I do agree that not to many women from that group seem to seek out Greek life. In our sorority we do have two black sisters and one Asian. NEVER have I heard any sister discrimminate or use the term "token" when discussing rush and potential sisters. I feel fortunate that the Greek system on my campus is open to anyone and everyone who wants to experience greek life. I just wish that women who are not caucasion would be more informed about sororities and the fact that at least here in Nova Scotia, there is absolutly no colour or more important, no DISCRMINATION barrier at all!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif People join fraternities and sororities for a reason and that is to learn and grow, make friends for life and have fun during their university life. In the year 2001, why would Greeks discriminate and harass?? It just doesn't make any sense to me..and I could get really "riled up" if I continue...so I'll stop!
But many good points from those who have posted! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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Sarah
Sister Lots-a-Heart, #9
President, Iota Beta Chi Sorority
http://welcome.to/iotabetachi

Hi there,
This topic really upsets me, but maybe that is because I live in Canada, where there is nothing as a "white" sorority. All our sororities and fraternites are multicultural, which reflects upon Canada, the most multicultural country in the world.
I think that it is sad the "land of the free" is so racist!!! We do have a few frats that cater to those people who would like a frat geared to their ethnicity or religion, but not a "white" frat... It still boggles me. I am Tri Delta at the University of Toronto which is a very diverse group, we have Christian, Hebrew, and Atheist etc, white, black, asian, filipino, greek, irish, italian, french and the list goes on... Maybe the "land of the free" should try and work on their slogan!

True, but the past is the past! Now is now. The future is the future.

Canadiandeltagirl,
Ok, I wasn't going to respond to this topic anymore b/c this is a flat out dead conversation. We've been up and down and all around the mulberry bush w/ this one.
BUT, I cannot let you (or any other non-American) person sit there and call America racist! Um, yes we have issues. I live here and have lived here all 22 years of my life, so I KNOW we have issues. Not to mention the fact that I am African-American, so I KNOW how some people can be! But damn, to just generalize America and all Americans as such is flat out rude and ignorant! Now, that's fine and dandy if Canada is all roses and sunshine w/ multiculturalism bursting everywhere, but do not criticize what you really do NOT know about! Have you even lived here? Have you gone to school here? Do you even have American friends? If you've answered "yes" to any of these things, then maybe you have some basis to what you said. But even I as an American would not call my country racist b/c I KNOW not everyone in America is that way. I for one am NOT!


As far as the frat/sorority situation goes...I am not going to even comment about it b/c obviously you have NOT done any research about why there are Historically African-Am, Latino/a, Asian, etc fraternities and sororities in America. So I suggest before you start generalizing and calling America racist b/c we have ethnic specific fraternities and sororities, take a look at some history books and websites about the start of these organizations and then holla at me.


*WHEW! Please don't let me have to come back in here!*




[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited May 05, 2001).]

Whew...do I even dare to follow ZChi's post? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

First of all, I think this topic has gone way off course...but,

CanadianDelta...it's very sad to see that you think of America this way. Before you continue generalizing my country this way, think of this:

I am a daughter of a Filipino immigrant mother and in total I have five different ethnicities. I am a member of a HISTORICALLY WHITE Greek Lettered Organization. However, in my sorority we basically have EVERY KIND OF ETHNICITY REPRESENTED. Across America you see many cultural-interest GLOs popping up everywhere! One of my best friends is a aKDPhi, one of the largest (if not THE largest) Asian-interest sororities in the nation! Contrary to what people say, GLOs like aKDPhi don't segregate, they want to give people an opportunity to be aware of Asian/MC interests, and I really don't see anything wrong with that.

It really pisses me off to see you call my country racist. I know racist people and I know there are a lot of them out there, but you have to realize that they don't represent the country as a whole. Of course, you wouldn't know that because you probably never lived here. In my 21 years of life I have never ever experienced racism in all the cities I've lived in. Some of my proudest moments are when I'm able to share my culture and my heritage. You'd be surprised as to how many people are interested in the Filipino/Japanese/Hawaiian/Hispanic/Russian culture.

And yes--America does live up to "the land of the free"...just ask my mom and she'll tell you all about it and how she fled Ferdinand Marcos' dictatorship. Many immigrants come to America in hopes of fulfilling the American dream...and when I do graduate with that degree, I'll be fulfilling her American dream.


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"Stress is toxic. It's a poison that makes me wanna throw up."--Me, on the aftermath of the UHPA Professors' strike

Visit Alpha Gamma Delta-Delta Sigma chapter and help some sisters out!

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/s...storypage.html
go here and read this, its very interesting

Ummm, no offense and all but I doubt that things are all as lovey dovey and kissy kissy as you seem to think they are. I have a lot of relatives from Canada. I have been to Canada, and white folks up there are JUST as racist IF NOT MORE than they are in the US. White people there just don't talk about it. My cousins lived there for years and hate it.


and FYI, Canada DOES have a BGLO, they are called Gamma Phi Delta I believe, and they have OBVIOUSLY seen the need that you do not.

I do not know about other campuses or Houses, But I have a Brother who is a Brother, not because he is black or white. We have a new Associate Member this semester who i hope gets initiated. This is not about the color of his skin, but the type of person he is! They had a desire to join LXA and we took them for who they are , not for what they are!

There are BGLO'S on the campus I graduated from and some of those Brothers were very good friends of mine! This was in the 60's when it was not fashionable to mix. I did it because they were my friends!
I personally feel an affront to Brother Jenkins by some of the things said, and I hope we all keep and open mind and heart!!!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

WOW!
I am so happy to see all this debate being generated, it's great! I still believe in what I had to say. Nowhere in my post did I say that life in Canada is sunshine and roses, we have our fair share of racism, and its sad, even our political parties say racist things, but we are NOT more racist. Knowing two people here, you have no more credibility than I do. I would have to say we have less "issues" than you do. So let me say that I believe that Americans in general are not racist, but that the Frat system is discriminatory, as I have come across fliers from the national offices of sororities that are explain "Why it is beneficial to rush minorities" sorry, but there is something wrong with this picture. Oh and Zchi4Life, trust me I know why such frats (African AM, Latino/a etc) are in existance, could it be segregation? Canada had that too, and we have our "Black" and "Jewish" frats , by the way, we have Alpha Phi Alpha , Alpha Kappa Alpha, Alpha Omega, Alpha Epsilon Pi and a local Delta Pi just to name a few. Never in my post did I say we did not have these kinds of frats and sororities http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I do have cousins who live in the states and I have visited the states on two occasions, at which time i visited universities and their fraternity system, so i have witnessed it first hand. That doesn't make me an expert, but it did teach me something. As for OoohTeenyWahine, I know there are mulitcultural frats, I went to my sororities convention and I saw all the different people, so I know that some sororities don't see themselves as "white". So I should rephrase what I said: I can not believe that there are still some Americans who see nothing wrong with a "white" frat or sorority. BTW I do like the states, it is a nice country, visited Texas and Washington DC. There are some very nice people, I have never had any problems, just a couple of laughs when people asked me if I lived in an igloo and where I learnt how to speak English so well! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I love the way you fought for your country against the British, I just don't like some of the things that your country promotes, I am entitled to my opinion, and I will speak it.

We don't really have to explain the existence of our orgs to you. You seem to be asking for some sort of justification for BGLO's and you won't find it here. I have no need to explain my sisterhood to you, but I find the very fact that you would ASK someone to do so to be outrageously offensive.

Who are you to decide what is necessary and what is not? You apparently do not have even the first clue of who we in BGLO's are or what we stand for. Alpha Kappa Alpha has been going strong for 93 years. Nothing you say will or can change the fact that we are a. important in our communities b. serving a purpose which HWGLO's can not and do not recognize or treat and c. growng by leaps and bounds.

Why is it an issue for you that I want to be part of a sisterhood that is dedicated to the service of MY community? Or that such an org would exist. When they were first founded BGLO's were there because we as blacks were not allowed to join WGLOS. That is no longer the case. A history of service to our communities is all the justification that WE need to exist. It is what attracts members to us, and will continue to do so- not the party scene or the keggers, but the service.

You are really speaking on something of which you know far too little. You should watch your tone because you have insulted not just me but MANY of the BGLO members on this board. Check yourself.

First of all, merely traveling through the states and having cousins who live here does not give you even an inkling as to how America is like. So my friend lovelyivy is right...you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

What's the deal with your beef with HBGLOs and HWGLOs? There was a sad time in America's history that prevented people from hanging out with each other. However, I feel that because times are changing...HWs and HBs are just that...historical.

Where in the #$&*ing world did you ever get the idea that national sororities are going above the call of duty recruit minorities into their organization? When selecting new members for my sorority, an "Affirmative Action" approach is not taken. Maybe they do jacked up things where you're from...or hey--maybe you're the one that's jacked up.

Come on everyone...let's lay off the girl. I mean, she's not even from a real country...

I'm so tired of Canadian's biting off of everything that America has ever done--everything from baseball to hockey and now our greek system--and then sitting on their a$$e$ and complaining about it. You know, you can't possible understand how our system works by reading a few posts on a message board; I doubt it's the enlightenement you're looking for. Go do some real research and then come back.

Better yet, why don't you take your mountie and elitist attitudes and stay off our boards permanently...'Ay?


[This message has been edited by Destiny00 (edited May 07, 2001).]

This is exactly how I feel. I want to explain myself one last time with somewhat of a silly, but VERY true analogy.
Let's say that you dye your natural red hair blonde. But everytime you saw a person with REAL red hair they kicked you in the shin. OUCH! That would suck. Now, the first time it happened, you would think, that person is nuts! But after a while, you would want to avoid ALL redheads. Well, this is sort of how I feel. Like because I do not fit into some sort of preordained mold of what a black woman should be, I got crap for it. Well, after a while, I just stopped associating with the people who constantly kick me in the shins!! I can appreciate my black heritage. Matter of fact, I had a wonderful conversation this past weekend with my mom about LOTS of stuff, race being one of them, like I always do. But, otherwise, I just don't need the aggravataion, the hassle, the crap I got...When I went thru recruitment and found my chapter, I just knew I fit and they did too...Why should I not accept their love and sisterhood because they don't look like me? There are TONS of things that I could tell you to continue to express my history and how I came to have the feelings I do, but I don't want to drudge up all my s*it! Please, just trust that I know what is best FOR ME and accept that not all black women are going to join BGLO's!

Kimmie,
I appreciate your candor and introspective post. If this was a therapy website, I would go into the HUNDREDS of instances and experiences I have had that have brought me to this place I am. I don't feel this is the right place, but I have been mentally, socially, and MOST importantly (to my feelings) PHYSICALLY abused by black men and women. Many others would probably feel the way I do if they lived my life...I again thank you for your asking me about myself...It shows you have a great soul...

And to answer your question, being black to me is something that is an afterthought, really, in my daily life. Frankly, it never comes up, in my mind or in my daily conversations...

OK, some of your post is just too HUH for words. But the parts that I could understand and decipher:

The college I went to was not predominatly anything. It was a very mixed campus. I joined a "WGLO" because I always wanted to, since HS. Back in HS, my friends and I talked about going thru recruitment and couldn't wait. So, what we all talked about we all wanted. Simple as that...

As for the comment to a black man, I haven't said that...

Whoa! Calm down a little, please. I resent someone telling my country to work on its slogan! Not everyone in the U.S. is racist and I don't care to be lumped into that category by someone who doesn't know me. America is a melting pot of many, many cultures and of course there is going to be racism on some level in some areas. For the record, racism is not strictly a "white and black" issue. Please don't be so judgemental.

I haven't posted to this forum in a while. Finding the following link compells me to do so:
http://stuact.tamu.edu/stuorgs/betis

As far as I know, the sorority profiled above, Delta Kappa Delta, is the first, if not the only Asian Indian interest sorority in the nation.

All I can say is awesome! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif These woman have taken the challange of creating and maintaining the name for the Indian American womanhood. No easy task, but
then, my jati behens have always been up to the challenge. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

I admire the sorority's ideals - incorporating the quotation from Rabindranath Tagore speaks to me of how high they aim with their goals. And that's moving to me, in a way that I doubt anyone except those of Asian Indian descent could understand.

The website doesn't necessarily say much, and they are young, to be sure, but I sense power, drive, and ambition emanating from that website.

Call it my desi 6th sense http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

(OK, so can anyone guess what the italicized words mean? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif And no fair speaking if you are or know somebody who is Indian!!)

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12 Years of the Pride!
Alpha Sigma Kappa - Women in Technical Studies


[This message has been edited by equeen (edited May 10, 2001).]

Having said THAT:

Am I a racial minority in my sorority?
Definitely.

Does that keep me from being true to my heritage?
I hope not, what kind of person would I be, if that were so??

Do my Sisters love and respect me as a Sister, for everything that I am, including my heritage?
Absolutely. I first show pride and respect for myself, in all that I am. Without self-respect and self-love, especially for my cultural identity, how can I ask anyone else to accept, love and respect me in that regard?

It's been said before on greekchat, in a slightly different way, but it's just as cogent here:

Who you are makes the organization. The organization does not make you the person you are, it only provides the opportunity for you to make yourself better.


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12 Years of the Pride!
Alpha Sigma Kappa - Women in Technical Studies[/b]

[This message has been edited by equeen (edited May 07, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by equeen (edited May 10, 2001).]

1. I used 90 years as the period of time BGLOs have been in existence, so noone would assume I was singling out their organization.

2. Does statement #2 apply to all GLOs or only BGLOs? Judging from some of the comments I have read in GC, I get the impression that it only applies to BGLOs.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gina_lynn:
I just can't see wanting to join an orgainzation that may or may not have admitted you when the orgainzation was founded.

I doubt that I would have been admitted to any NPHC sorority when they were founded.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ice Cold Kreator:
I do think that there is a problem when black people pledge white organizations...white organizations who did not want you...and given the racial problems of the past 100 years...how can any of these organizations teach unity in sisterhood or brotherhood...

You said so yourself, only until about 40 years ago, did the widespread discrimination cease in BGLOs. If you think that past discrimination shouldn't deter someone from joining a BGLO, why should it be a deterrent from joining a PWGLO?

3. I'm not holding BGLOs solely responsible for paper bag testing. I realize that universities, churches, etc were also involved. But this thread isn't about universities and churches. It's about greek letter organizations. IMO, to say "all the other Black organizations were discriminating too" is an excuse. If everyone else jumped off a bridge, I don't think your orgs. founders would have followed suit.

I'm not asking these questions to be facetious. I just really don't understand why it is okay to join a BGLO that would have discriminated against me in the past, but not okay to join a PWGLO that would also have discriminated against me in the past. Please enlighten me.

ok, like Zchi said I too wasn't going to even bother with this thread anymore, because it has gone around the world and back tripping on some serverly silly stuff. Candiangirl, now that u have some much American culture from visitng the US twice, u must have learned an aweful alot in such an extension time period.
By visiting a school here and there , and see a fraternity and sorority here and there does not qualify you as a Greek Life Expert, Greek life is different on almost every campus you go too. which is something us greeks fight for everyday to get away from those drive by people who cast quick assumptions on a quick glance at greek life.If you want to know about us and how we function and what we do, then more then an hour or a day is needed to truly understand Greek Life!
Second , so called flyers, in each org they don't push for a specfic female or male because of their race, but the actual person that they are! As for the igloo thing, umm that has nothing to do with greek life, and obviously either the people you were talking to where joking, didn't care, or didn't kow where u where from.
As to your last two comments, well all might see these "white sororities" acceptable but thats there history, same as with a BGLO thats there history, and etc... Most sororities and fraternities are not like that today, we all try our best to show love to all, which is one of the reasons that makes greek life so special. when it all comes down to it, GLO, BGLO, MCGLO, AGLO, LGLO and whoever else I might have forgot(sorry ya'll it's late) we all stand together, cause when it all comes down to it, we are all greek no matter what the org is , or what their history is. And yes you are correct you are entitled to your own opinion, as the rest of us, but don't expect us not to get mad, when u have no knowledge of the subject at hand. Me personally, I love and respect all my greek brothers and sisters , NO MATTER WHAT ORG THEY ARE IN , WHAT RACE THEY MAY BE, OR WHAT THERE VIEWS ARE!
Always DGPHONEY~

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"Simply the Best, Delta Gamma Pi"
http://everythingblack.websitenow.com/citron

1. The discrimintion continued much furhter than 90 years ago. (You may have been facetious but we all know that it was a reality for many orgs until the 60's and 70's)

2. I do not think that is necessarily a reason to say "don;t join that org." now if it is not their current practice. I don;t mean on paper (because no one would put that on paper today) but in practice.

3. I don;t think you can hold the paper bag test against BGLOs alone. It was a standard through out much of Black social life and extended way outside of BGLOs. Now that is not an excuse of any kind, but blame cnnot be sat at their doorstep alone or as though it was a practice of thier creating. Additionally, that fact does not negate the significant historical distinction between BGLO's and WGLO's as far as the role and opportunity for African-American's is concerned.