Welcome back, Dr. Phil.

You're back!!!

Wha? I got happy when you came back too!!

"Some of those people have offices now, times is a changin' so urrybody stop a fussin!"

"One of my best mentors is Black!"

"Some of my best friends are Black!"

:p I know this is not what you are saying.

I am not remotely mad at Paula Deen. I always found her amusing but never used her recipes. I respect Paula Deen's fans' ability to protest. That's what fans are forrrrrrrr. For good times and bad times. They'll be on your side for ever more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-...-food-network/

Sen's Revenge, our cousin Soror Melissa Harris-Perry is slamming Paula Deen right now. Talking about obesity, diabetes, and the stuff we are discussing in this thread.

Does the Ken Tanaka video about what kind of Asian are you apply to this conversation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJ...e_gdata_player

Good.

Oh hush. You got the same warm welcome back!!!!

:o:p You hush too! I was just trying to demonstrate from my perspective, things have indeed progressed. My perspective is just that though, and mine alone, and makes me fully aware that it's not truth everywhere.

First, so glad to see posts from you!

Second, I really appreciate (if that's the right word) the quoted. To tie things in to a theological bent, it mirrors what I've long believed about sin -- that sin is not so much about specific things we do as it is about a pervasive condition that affects, in obvious and not so obvious ways, everything we do.


Well, you came back before you really came back. :p

But we'll throw a party if you want us to.

How about we drop all the hyphenated "shit" (guess that's ok since you used it) period. We are all AMERICANS.

I didn't watch her show, didn't like the fake accent and all those recipes with butter, salt, and sugar, so I don't care if she is off the air one bit. What a dummy this woman is. I hope she socked away her money cause she is DONE.

White folks put you through shit? Really? How old are you?

And furthermore, my family put no one through bullshit. My family came over here from Ireland in 1914. Nobody in my family owned anybody else. EVER.

Someone here is showing racial hatred. Three guesses.

You know what's shameful? That we're sitting here arguing about that silly woman while a TRUE leader for his race, a man who fought for justice for his people is lying in a hospital in South Africa, in critical condition. Some news sources hinting that this icon is nearing the end of his days.

God Bless Nelson Mandela.

I must say that I agree here. It's not fair to group all white people together just because of a terrible few. While we still have a long way to go in terms of racism, reverse racism doesn't help the situation, in my opinion.

The bolded cliche' is a quick fix fantasy that has been used for generations. It is the foundation for acculturation and assimilation in the United States of America. The technicality of dropping hyphens is the same thing as "colorblindness". It boils down to a false rainbow pissing pony routine of pretending as though every citizen of the United States of America is the exact same. Then it involves shaming groups of people for identifying with their racial, ethnic, cultural, language, religious, and cultural origins that span beyond the United States of America. Humans cannot multitask and therefore everyone has to pretend to be carbon copies of whatever defines "America" for that generation.

IotaGuy's language is shortsighted and colorful (definitely no pun intended) but IotaGuy is definitely not too young to experience social inequalities rooted in race and ethnicity and the remnants of slavery, Jim Crow, and the Civil Rights Movement. If a 20-30-something year old homosexual man said that he experienced heterocentrism and oppression on the part of heterocentric individuals and institutions, he would hopefully not be told he is too young to know what is going on around him.

;) Well, since you took this discussion personally and falsely believe this boils down to your family and slave ownership, you should read historian Noel Ignatiev's How the Irish Became White.

This is a common response when discussing social inequalities. People pretend as though we cannot multitask (similar to the "we are American" thing). Certainly you do not think Greekchat should shut down all of its threads until 94 year old Nelson Mandela either recovers or is blessed to transcend into the afterlife.

By the way, do not use the phrase "leader for his race". Mandela fought for justice, is someone who I was raised to research and know a great deal about, but Mandela himself would not want his battles to be reduced to leadership for a particular race and ethnicity. Nelson Mandela is a leader in the world, period, and his impact is not relegated to the racial and ethnic category with which he proudly identifies. Just as you would not call the many white icons and leaders around the world leaders for the white race.

:) But thanks for reminding me of how annoyed I was with this article a few days ago: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ep-segregatio/

Dear Whites,

Please stop using this phrase. And please stop confusing discomfort with racism.

With Love and Respect,
DrPhil

Thanks for the lecture, Phil. You imply that AMERICANS cannot recognize, nor can they respect the fact that indeed we are all from different backgrounds and have such a varied historical heritage. I happen to think it's way cool, actually.

As for the other, I don't care. I'm glad you have love and respect, however.

I see that you failed to start a thread on Mr. Mandela, yet you chastise those on this board for not discussing that current event. Were you serious?

At this point, he is an icon for the world and not just those of African descent. But keep on digging that hole.

Wow, sucks to be some of you! All that bitterness must sting :(

We can recognize it, as long as we recognize the systemic attempts by the white majority to wipe out all African cultural heritage for the first, oh, 400 years that whites were on this continent.

I think someone has been watching too much Fox News.

Mizeree I2K is right and you are wrong. After every black man whose neck was hung and stretched from a tree. After every black man whose testicles were cut and castrated. After every black man whose body was stoked and burned to ashes over fiery coals. After every one of the black women who were violently gang-raped over and over. After every pregnant black woman who was savagely beaten until the unborn child fell from her womb…you have the nerve…the nerve to open your mouth and speak such vile ignorance? You are a disgust not only to your own race, but to the human race. You need to take your own hand, and just smack the hell out of yourself.

Talking about "Slavery is in the past"? No, slavery is in the present! Locked-up in our slave brains, because we are still being a devil-damned slave to the white man, today!

"European Americans" have inherited what our parents have passed on to us. The children of slaves, and they, the slave master's children, have inherited all that our fore parents have accumulated yesterday. The question is what is the difference between what we have inherited and what they have inherited? They ("European Americans") are the beneficiaries economically, attitudinally, politically, and socially.

We are the inheritors of everything that our fore parents accumulated as slaves, economically, attitudinally, politically, and socially…which turns out to be a big bunch of pain. We inherited the consequential after-effects of centuries of mental, emotional, and physical abuse, while our white counterparts today, are directly benefiting today, from the suffering of our parents, yesterday.

Our little white "friends" that we compete with today have started off many laps behind the game in handicapped conditions of injury. And they are still deathly afraid to run against our greatness. There is no true equity.

We inherited the past. As a result of slavery, we inherited stress, inferiority, self-hate, insanity, and an automatic social condemnation. As a result of slavery, our little white "friends" inherited a self-confidence, money, and automatic social status. Yes, today is effected by yesterday.

"European Americans" are benefiting from what happened then, although they may not directly know it. We are suffering from what happened then, although we may not directly know it. And for those of you "other" white people who believe you are free and clear of guilt, you are not. Whether you are Irish, Italian, Polish, German, Scottish, British etc. etc. etc. as long as you are living in America, you are also DIRECTLY benefiting from the same thing.

The oppression of slavery hasn't changed, just the technology of that oppression. Ancient to modern. Yesterday to today.

meh.. oppression olympics as previously noted. Let's also recognize that whites did the same thing, perhaps worse, to Native Americans, and did it in a more overt way by slaughtering them and then attempting an overt cultural genocide.

Historically, black Americans' plight really isn't all that different or special. It is just one group which was oppressed and/or enslaved for a period of time. Historically speaking, those groups tend to do better when they assimilate rather than not.

Also, while I hear a lot of gritching about this dominant culture, what is the alternative to assimilation? Making up your own culture from scratch just because of your own perceived differences in skin pigmentation? Isn't it true that many, if not most black Americans have some European ancestry as well? Is that insignificant in your forming of your cultural identity?

I was really trying to stay out of this thread, but this is just so arrogantly stupid!!!

As a white female from a middle class family born in the eighties I think I will never know oppression the way a lot of minorities have in the past, and a lot of those groups still experience it today. Who am I to decide for another when they get to feel oppressed. I think a lot of people with my background, are very unaware of the fact that, usually, it's a lot easier to be white, and that a lot of oppression and discrimination based on skin color and heritage still occurs.

I think a lot op people try not to be racist, and "not see color". But, from a psychological prospective, people tend to feel most at ease around those they perceive to be "like them". Does feeling more at ease around people who look, act, talk like you and have the same cultural background make you racist? Not in my book. But to me, excluding, oppressing, distrusting and avoiding another culture does.

HEY EVERYONE SEN'S BACK HOOORAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

<3

Dear DrPhil,

I was hoping you'd pop in to this one. Thanks!

With Unbridled Adoration,
agzg

Did you read the post that you quoted? He said we've come a long way, but haven't gotten there yet. How does that make him a disgrace?

Tell that to James Byrd's family.

I don't think there's a need to be the most special oppressed group. No one is trying to minimize what other groups have gone through. However, the fact that we still have people alive who felt the direct effects of this plight means that people are going to talk about it more. 1600s =/= 1960s.

Umm...What?

If you want to compare blacks to Native Americans, fine. If you want to compare blacks to the Irish (as did the poster to whom I was responding), you are an order of magnitude off.

This is a shame but I am glad people in this thread finally stopped bullshitting. LOL. Kevin is an illustration of privilege, racism, and the importance of changing high school and college history classes.

Whiteness does not rule the world (aside from power and privilege), white people were not doing the world a favor, and the white diaspora was not the first and only culture and civilization around the world. The TransAtlantic Slave Trade greatly tore apart cultures (different cultures and religions) but it did not completely remove cultures. The white diaspora did not introduce culture, religion, and civilization to ANYONE, not to the various Native American cultures, not to people of the African diaspora, not to people of the Asian diaspora, etc. Black Americans as a collective were stripped of native languages and other things, and introduced to cultural artifacts of the white diaspora and slavery. However, Blacks were not stripped of everything and there are "Black American/African American cultures" (Kevin needs to research the hundreds of books, articles, professional organizations, social organizations, and public service organizations that are illustrations) that both survived in spite of, and are a result of, people of the African diaspora assimilating (in various extents) into whiteness. And those of us who interact with nonwhites in the USA and around the world know that there are far more similarities across the nonwhite disapora than differences--and those similarities are not all remnants of slavery. They are remnants of rich cultures, many of which have existed for centuries.

I think she was moreso declaring "my family didn't own slaves." You know, the cliche' phrase that whites have used for generations.

You are fully aware of this so the following is for the folks who are unfamiliar with this stuff (there is some interesting literature on the formation and social psychology of whiteness including work done by Roediger, Ignatiev, and even The Boston Phoenix's 1997 publication entitled "White Like Me"):

In the 1800s-1900s many Irish hated the idea of slavery and newly immigrated Irish were first considered "white ni**ers" when they first migrated to the United States of America. More specifically, ghettos were still identified through their true meaning (racially homogenous neighborhoods) and newly immigrated populations, including the Irish, tended to live in these neighborhoods until they were able to assimilate into whiteness and make enough money to live elsewhere. Blacks were referred to as "smoked Irish" and the Irish were referred to as "ni**ers turned inside out."
As with other white racial and ethnic groups (ethnic Jews are a more complex story), the Irish used social institutions and racism to prove that they were just like the other whites, should be able to assimilate into whiteness, and should have the resulting political and social privileges. Being Irish and Catholic continued to be one difficulty (as evidenced by labor market struggles, President John F. Kennedy and family, etc.) but the assimilation into whiteness occurred and the privileges that come with it.

Wow, Dr. Phil. No offense, but you are one angry black person. Do you live in a place where you never have to run into white people? Or do you manage to swallow your hatred long enough to interact with them? Just askin.

I see that you're typing a reply. What's taking so long? Googling American history? Thumbing through your thesaurus? lol

Trolling troll is trolling. Sit down while the grown ups are talking.

I'm sorry, did I offend your delicate sensibilities, agzg? I guess I'm just expected to shut up and tow the party line. But I'll keep talking as long as you ridiculous fools keep bellyaching :) (or until I get bored, whichever comes first)

Since this is your second post, I want you to find solace in the fact that, yes, I see you. We see you. Hello.

At least come up with something more entertaining. This troll line is weak.

I'm not a troll. You're just not used to people not jumping all over themselves apologizing for their alleged privilege. You'll get used to it. OR you could just ignore me, you know.

As for you Phil, your non-answer speaks volumes. And maybe someday I too can breathe the rarified air of an 11,000+ poster. I dare to dream :)

BTW, what line of work are you two in that you can sit at the computer all day attempting to trade barbs with an 18 year old? Is the Winn-Dixie that generous with its breaks?

This is kind of fun! Your turn :)

Quoted because some of us find you fun. But, you are not sharp enough to know why we find you fun.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

Talk about overplayed. There is black on white hate crime as well. If only whatshisname could be here to post a new thread every time something resembling it happened. It's all pretty heinous stuff. You can't judge an entire society by what a few redneck thugs decided to do. It's as unreasonable to judge our culture by what happened to James Byrd as it would be for me to judge any other culture by the actions of a few of its miscreants. As I recall, the murderers of James Byrd have been severely punished. One has been put to death. That should actually be an indicator of how far we've come. 50-60 years ago, law enforcement probably wouldn't have touched that case.

Yeah, never mind with that. It was an incomplete thought. To complete it, I would suggest that instead of as a culture, looking towards assimilation, or at least integration, we've seen the creation of holidays like Kwanzaa from whole cloth in order to provide some sort of rigid separate identity. I think there is a separate black American culture or subculture which is more of a culture than a racial thing. You won't see many African immigrants, for example, participating in stereotypical African-American culture.

Why would an immigrant from, say, Eritrea take on African-American traditions? The country has its own cultural identity.