Anybody out there familiar with Butler University in Indianapolis? They were at a college fair last night and Halo talked to them for a bit and may be interested in adding them to his list.

A bit. It was down to Butler and OSU for Son #2, and a very good friend of Son #1 graduated from Butler last spring. We found they gave very generous scholarships/financial aid in both cases. Academic choices were very appealing to #2, but in the end he wanted the big school experience. Nice campus, not huge but large enough to offer strong academics and campus life. Friend loved her 4 years there and feels she got a great education AND was able to get a job in her field soon after graduation.

I almost went there. Amazing campus and what seemed like great academics (to a high schooler 6 or 7 years ago). What threw me off was the climate. They talked about tornado warnings and feet of snow neither of which is appealing to this west coaster. Also the day before we visited there had been a huge rain storm and there were humongous worms on the sidewalk, like six inches long. Loved them otherwise though. Good basketball team too.

At the same time that I considered both the University of Kentucky and the University of Louisville, I also considered Butler University and Ball State University in Indiana. Actually, the two Indiana schools had better programs in my first major (art history). Butler is a popular pick for students from the north suburbs around Chicago. It is not quite Cornell, Brown, or Northwestern, but it is a very solid choice.

And may be more appealing as a several hours drive vs. a flight to the northeast. And maybe there's a train option? I can't say I'm familiar with any of the north/south routes except along the coasts. But relatively speaking, the weather in Indy is pretty temperate and the city has a lot going for it.

Butler would probably be more of a safety for him. Northwestern, Brown and Cornell are a crap shoot, even for students with great credentials and numerous accomplishments. I was looking for alternatives to some of his other safeties- Albion, Kalamazoo- it sounds like Butler might be a good fit. The drive to Indy isn't bad from here although to go there and back in a day is a little much so it would probably require a hotel stay when I went to move him in or pick him up, but it's manageable.

The biggest downside to Butler at the moment is they don't use the common app and I don't know if we have time to get everything in for the 11/1 early action deadline. They strongly recommended he apply EA for the highest merit scholarship opportunities. We'll see how the weekend goes and if he can get the application done. He's working on his essays now.

He has a few minor tweaks he wants to make to his essays, but two college apps are almost ready for submission! 11/1 deadline going here... I think he's going to make it!

The first two are submitted :) Woohoo!

I am very familiar with Butler, if you have any specific questions PM me. I mentioned Butler early in the thread because it sounded like a good fit for him looking at its size and academic programs.

Macalester just showed up on his Common App list. Flights are easy between there and Detroit at least! We'll see.

We leave tomorrow for Providence and Ithaca! I'm excited to get away for a little bit and check out these schools. The weather will be kind of iffy, but not too terrible for early November.

Have fun!!

I almost went to Butler -- my mom and most of her family went there, as well as many of my friends. I would say it seems like a safety compared to the other schools he's applying to. It was also a safety for me. They were extremely generous with financial aid for me, both need and merit-based. I decided I wanted to go to a larger school, but Butler would have cost me the same amount I paid at my state school (where I also got a great aid package).

I love that area of Indianapolis -- it's urban but still feels like a campus, if that makes sense. And the basketball program is awesome!

While you're in Ithaca you might want to swing by Rochester. My nephew is at RIT and just loves it. For perspective, the others on his list were MIT and Cal Tech, and he chose not to pursue Harvard at the time even though they approached him.

Yes, we might wander by Rochester or Binghamton while we're in the area. Butler would be a safety and I'm a little concerned that he has so few of those on his list. He really does like Albion, in Michigan, and I figure that's the super safety that he loves. They have a Gerald Ford program in Public Policy that requires internships and they find them for the students- in Detroit, Lansing or Washington DC. We'll see what the merit aid looks like :) He would be less than 2 hours from home too, which would be nice for me.

The rep from Butler at the college fair did say applicants applying EA by 11/1 would get the best merit aid. He didn't apply EA.

It's been a very busy few days, but Halo has had a clear favorite emerge. Of course, it is the hardest school to get into of all of his options, but he really likes Brown.

He did like Cornell, but commented he wished Oberlin and Cornell could be blended into the perfect school. When he said that, I told him I thought he might find Brown to be a pretty decent blend between the two. At Brown, the adcom for our area happened to be the one leading the info session today so we got to meet him, which was cool.

At the Cornell info session for the specific college he wants, there were only two boys. We had been chatting with the other family a bit throughout the day. The two boys basically had an hour and fifteen minute meeting with the director who would be reading their applications. That was pretty cool. I think our timing was good with smaller groups for info sessions and tours this time of year.

Yesssssssss

Now that he has a personal connection with both of these contacts, I would have him follow up with them with occasional rapport-building contacts. This is what GenerallyGreek did with her our area admissions counselor at W&L, and I think it made a BIG difference. He was very friendly and responsive. She e-mailed him with questions like "I made state honors choir" and "I have my dual enrollment A grade from first semester" -- how do I add these to my file? I wish she had these contacts with the other schools.

Great idea, Sciencewoman! He did get the business card and we talked to him a little bit. He was asking about which high school he went to and I said that it isn't a school that typically sends kids to schools like Brown and that, in recent years, we weren't aware of anybody other than Hypo applying there and mentioned that she hadn't gotten into Brown. He asked where she was and I told him she was at Barnard and very happy there.

Munchkin- I was thinking of you as we walked past your sorority house.

The boy is really stressing now. Before, he thought Oberlin was IT but was pretty sure he'd get in. Now that the IT school is so tough to get into, he's stressing. There were some hints about what the essay should express at the info session. I suggested he make a detailed list about what he is loving about Brown and then we'll pare that down to the things that are truly unique about it for his "Why Brown?" essay.

The adcom for the college he would apply to at Cornell also gave some very specific guidance about the "Why ILR?" essay and I think some of that guidance could be useful for Brown also.

It was a very successful, albeit exhausting, trip. I'm wiped out. Driving from Providence to Ithaca and back was pretty brutal.

Seconded! College Hill is so beautiful. Ugh, now I'm homesick...

My senior class had three girls in the top ten get accepted to and enroll at Brown, with another few getting waitlisted or outright rejected who were potentially qualified to get in. The only trait I can think of that made these girls more qualified than others to get accepted is that they each had a "thing" that made them unique in addition to the usual amazing academics, test scores, and extracurriculars. One girl was a fantastic writer and took a gap year to teach English in Spain, one girl wanted to join the CIA and taught herself enough Arabic to study abroad in Egypt and Morocco, and the third girl had a family member who works for Brown in a high-level capacity (not that she wasn't also amazing). Hopefully your son has a "thing" that will help him stand out in a good way! I know this time of year is the most stressful for high school seniors and I wish him the best of luck writing all those cursed essays.

To speak like a native for a moment, that trip is WICKED FRICKIN FAHHH. Kudos to you for making it.

Here's the whole journal of our trip. Some of this may be a repeat of things I said earlier, but I wrote it for another board first.

We are back from our college visits to Cornell and Brown and I am beyond exhausted. That was brutal and I don't know how some people do 5 or 6 colleges in a week.

We flew to Providence and stayed there Saturday night. We drove around Brown's campus a little bit Saturday night and it was lively and busy. We had dinner and went back to the hotel where we just chilled out a bit. Sunday morning, we checked out of the hotel, drove around Brown and downtown Providence again and then hit the road to Ithaca. If you haven't been to Cornell, it's not easily accessible by Interstates. The last hour and a half of the drive was through dark, curvy, mountainous roads. Because of the time change and cloudy weather, it got dark really early. I found driving those roads in the dark to be very stressful. It was total blackness all around us except when we came to small towns. We did get to the hotel, which was on the outskirts of Ithaca so it still seemed like we were in the middle of nowhere. We settled into the hotel, watched some TV and then got hungry. We drove into downtown Ithaca for dinner and then found the campus and drove around a bit to get a feel for it. It seemed much less remote once we found downtown!

Monday morning, we had a general info session at 9 am, a tour at 1:25 pm and an info session for the college he wants at 2:45. The general info session was good- typical of others we've attended. After the general session, we meandered around campus, figuring out where the other sessions were going to be, went to The Cornell Store (to get warm! It was below freezing there yesterday!), ate lunch in the student union and sat in a busy spot to people watch. Then we had the walking tour which was also typical of most we've attended. Blue lights anybody?

We met another Mom and son at the morning info session and they were at all the other sessions with us. They were from Manhattan so we talked about my D's love for NYC and Barnard. We discussed other schools the boys had on their radars. She was a Cornell alumna. They were in tour group also and her son was interested in the same college that my son is interested in so they were also in the specific college info session with us. In fact, that info session was just us- the two boys and us two moms. That was probably the most valuable session. The director of admissions for that college sat went over the curriculum for that major and shared some tips for the essay too. Although they don't do interviews, that personalized time was probably more valuable than an interview. He was very specific about the approach they should take with their essays, which was great.

We hopped in the car and started driving back to Providence around 4:30 pm. I was hoping to get through that first hour and a half of tough mountain road driving before dark and succeeded with that, but the rest of the drive was still hard for me. Even on the interstates, it was very dark. I don't see as well in the dark so I had to concentrate very hard. There were a lot of times I didn't feel I could do the speed limit because there were no lights, no moon- just very dark and hard to see where the road was going to be. We didn't get to our hotel until around 11:30. We went to bed right away. I was so wiped out. My son did like Cornell a lot more than he thought he would. The views of the mountains and water from certain spots on campus were breathtaking! So were the all the hills- more literally- breathtaking... lol. I wouldn't want to be climbing all those hills all the time, but S was totally cool with it. Then again, he's a Boy Scout- he loves hiking.

Tuesday morning, we had a 9 am tour at Brown immediately followed by an info session. The tour guide was very personable and made note of some things that really piqued my son's interest. We got lucky and the adcom for our area did the info session. We talked with him a little bit after the session. He wasn't familiar with our high school and we told him that we are pretty sure my D was the only kid from our high school to ever apply to Brown and she didn't get in. He asked where she ended up and I told him she was at Barnard and absolutely loves it so she ended up where was meant to be. I also noted that most of the top kids go to the University of Michigan and are happy with that, but that my children wanted to reach a little further. My S shocked me and told the adcom that he wished he would have visited earlier because he would have applied ED if he had. The adcom said that a solid candidate would get in whether ED or RD and not to stress out because of that. Then we wandered around the student center for a little bit, again, observing students. We went to Thayer street and grabbed some lunch. We had about two hours before we had to head to the airport so we found a beach, walked around a bit looking at shells, sat on some benches to just enjoy the peaceful beach, found the TAPS office (we're Ghost Hunters fans) and then had a snack before heading to the airport.

I asked him if he really meant it that he would have applied ED if we had been able to visit earlier and he said yes. He loves it. So, he is now stressing about how to get into Brown. Before, his top school was one he would probably get into. Now it's a whole 'nother ball game. He's thinking about how he can update his application to make it stronger and what to write in that essay "Why Brown?"

April 1st just got a lot farther away, I think.

Halo and his dad went to visit Northwestern today. They drove to Evanston last night and had an 11:00 info session and tour today. Then they drove home. It wasn't a great weekend to go because it was extremely cold there this morning- single digits! My ex has occasional vertigo problems and he had a spell when he woke up this morning. Between the cold and his vertigo, as Halo put it "he was a negative presence". Halo thought the info session was NOT as informative as Brown's, Cornell's or Oberlin's. He did like the campus but doesn't feel like he knows much more about the school than he did before. Then, because his dad was feeling dizzy, he had to do all the driving on the way home. He still plans to apply, but he's not sure where it is on the list.

He has his Eagle Scout Board of Review tomorrow. Big weekend for him :)

The bolded made me laugh. I think my teenage son would say this about me all. the. time. right now!

Too bad Halo didn't have a better experience at NU.

Hope all goes well for his Eagle Scout review!

Halo passed his Eagle Board of Review. Another boy, who he has been in Scouts with since they were Tigers in first grade also had his Board of Review today. I was honored to sit on that young man's Board and he also passed. It was a misty eyed day for me and the other young man's mother because we were their den leaders through Cubs. She sat on Halo's board today, then we headed to her house and I sat on her son's board. How cool is that?

Congratulations to both of the fine young men from the daughter of an Eagle Scout.

Congratulations! One of my brothers did his Eagle project today...collected coats for the annual winter coat sale held on the front lawn of the state house, I think. My mom kept sending me pictures of him in action. I'm super happy for both Halo and my brother because the Eagle looks awesome on a resume:p

This is all great stuff!

It'll be funny if Halo gets the same interviewer that Hypo had. I used to assign interviews (volunteer position) and there are so many kids that I don't think id remember not to assign siblings! Most volunteer chairs try to match students with interviewers who are in similar fields.

Halo applied to three schools EA and although MOST schools have released EA and ED decisions, none of his three have yet. So many of his friends applied to regional state schools with rolling decisions. People keep asking me if he has decided where he's going. He hasn't gotten any admissions decisions yet and the other 4 schools he will apply to won't release decisions until late March.

HOWEVER, Kalamazoo College is supposed to mail decisions tomorrow. The University of Michigan traditionally released decisions on the "teen" Friday of the month, but they did not release decisions last Friday as hoped. The U of M forum on CC is going absolutely crazy because these kids want to know. They are bombarding U of M live chat and the admissions office with phone calls. At this point, the admissions office put a voicemail message up that decisions will not be released today and they are working hard to get decisions out by Dec. 24th (the guaranteed decision date). Reports are that they have record numbers of EA applicants- 30,000 at this point. For a point of reference, they had 42,000 EA and RD applicants combined last year. That's insanity! The admissions office has posted they are closed tomorrow from noon to 3 pm so there is speculation they are releasing decisions at that time. It does seem awfully heartless to release decisions on Christmas Eve. For many kids, this could be a first rejection and that would be a tough time to get that.

His third school, Albion, may have totally messed up his application. Halo doesn't care about this school enough to try to make sure they have it right. If they have his application and all materials, he should have a decision by Jan. 15th.

^^^ Yikes, that's crazy about the U-M! I'm glad I'm not answering phones in the Admissions office. They did have a good announcement last year, though: "Relax...you're in!"

I thought some of the schools like U-M, with lots of local applicants, liked to delay until they knew kids were out of school, so there isn't a lot of "who got in?" gossip and trying to check admissions statuses on-line during the school day. Does this ring a bell to you? I thought that was the situation for U-M.

Northwestern had that huge issue last year when their decisions website crashed...then CC crashed due to all the people coming on to post complaints and updates about NU! Hopefully they'll be in good shape this year.

First college acceptance is in! HAIL to the Victors! If he chooses, Halo could be a Wolverine in the College of LS&A.

That first college acceptance, especially to such a great school brings a certain relief, even though I thought he would get in there.

Congratulations!!

And today, Halo received a BIG envelope from Kalamazoo College. He received their most generous merit scholarship too. He was really excited about this one because it is his favorite in state option. So he said "It's great to know there's a school I really like as an option if everybody else rejects me."

^ Does Halo have a preference system (a recruitment parallel!) set up for his acceptances?

These are his current rankings:

1) Brown (Will finish applying by 1/1/14 and will receive a decision in late, late March)
2) Oberlin (Will finish applying by 1/15/14 and will receive a decision in late, late March)
3) Northwestern (Will finish applying by 1/1/14 and will receive a decision in late March)
4/5) Cornell (Will finish applying by 1/1/14 and will receive a decision in late, late March)/Kalamazoo- Accepted with generous merit scholarship
6) University of Michigan- Accepted- It's just such a huge school and he doesn't really want that- it is where everybody goes-
7) Albion College- We think they've lost parts of his application. He doesn't care at this point- He tried to straighten it out through emails but they stopped responding. If they are considering him EA, he'll get a response by mid-January, I think. He'd pick Kzoo over them anyway.

One big advantage of Kzoo is that it is right next to Western Michigan University and he has two really good friends who are going to Western. That would be really nice for him- not so entrenched in high school friends that he doesn't expand, but they are minutes away, at a different school.

I've heard from some parents that K College's merit aid is not nearly as generous after the first year. I'm not sure if that's changed, but it would probably be a good idea to ask if you get to that point, because they felt it was a bit of a "bait and switch." Several people in my husband's family have gone there, and all loved it. I agree that K College trumps Albion, as far as in-state LACs go. Plus, losing parts of your app. and then ceasing communication doesn't exactly give you a good feeling going in.

He loves K College, really and if none of the others panned out, would be happy to go there. There's also a girl from his crowd who graduated last year and is at K College. It has the best ranking of the private LACs in the state. I'll keep the "bait and switch" thing in mind. This first year, things should be pretty good with two in college, his scholarship and Hypo's typical grant from Barnard. Their dad was unemployed most of last year- sad to say, but that helps the financial aid especially since he has no intention of helping them with college costs anyway. I do think I can get some plane tickets out of him now that he's working- for Hypo to come home for breaks.

I think his Brown supplemental essays are just about finalized. He's struggling with one line at this point- trying not to be cliche but trying to be honest about "Why Brown?" in less than 200 words. His list of what he likes about Brown is so long that narrowing it to 200 words while still being specific and not cliche is a major challenge. I'm pretty sure Hypo had 500 words for the same question! Most students who like Brown really like that they have an open curriculum. There are no standard core classes required. That means that all students in every class are in that class because they want to be there AND students have a lot of flexibility in designing a coursework plan that can meet their interests. So he's trying to come up with a way (in about 20 words or less) to explain exactly how he would use that open curriculum to explore his interests rather than just say "I like the open curriculum".

Could he mention combining say, his love of neuroscience with an interest in a foreign language? There's been a massive expansion of the brain sciences divisions recently--maybe that will make it clear that he's doing his research? I remember interviewing kids (from the NYC area) who couldn't answer that question specifically! :-(

He has moved in a different direction since he discovered he loves statistics. His preferred concentration at Brown is Public Policy & American Institutions within the Taubman Center. His essay about that major was pretty easy for him to write. He's beyond excited that they do their own public opinion polling. He's now combining his love of politics, statistics and psychology. One of his Common App essays is about how he explores the world through finding out how other people see it. It is the essay that is most "him" when I read it.

The difficulty with "Why Brown?" is that there is so much he loves about the school, he can't get it all in to 200 words without genericizing it. He has narrowed his focus to three basic traits and was able to get more specific about those traits, comparing them to his personality.

AGDee, you're doing such a great job with this process and your kids. I have a few years yet, but you're definitely schooling me on how it's done.

He's trying a whole new approach to the Brown essay. Part of it sounded really stilted. It's funny- he did the same thing with the Common App essay at first. Then he scrapped the whole thing and did an essay that really expressed who he was.

Thanks KDCat. I'm trying to provide some guidance but not take over the process. This has to be HIS thing. These essays need to be HIS voice, but his true voice, not the voice of some scholar trying to convince an adcon that they should admit him. It's really hard to find that balance.