Whoooa, what??? You misunderstood me - or else I misunderstood you. You seemed to be saying that is IS skewed in favor of the sororities.

And believe me, by NO means do I consider that a bad thing. Alpha Chapter and Beta Chapter of XYZ may be miles apart in what they consider an "ideal sister" and how the interpret the membership standards laid out for them, but there is no question whatsoever it is THEIR decision.

Well guess what, sometimes the chapters are forced (by advisors, HQs, or worst, by Greek life offices) to invite back women they really don't want to have there because their rush retention rates or numbers are low. Except for the last case, that's not Panhel's fault.

Not only that, Rachel needs to get her ish together and realize there IS a polite way of conveying to DEF and GHI that she really doesn't want to be there. The problem is, it may be out of the members' hands to do her that courtesy and release her. They can't make the other chapters like her more and invite her to their parties, which I'm sure many DEFs and GHIs would love to be able to do. Just because your numbers are low doesn't mean you are so dense as to not know when someone is unhappy or uncomfortable.

If you realize the one she's dumping may be a better fit for her, I don't understand how you can still rail against a woman being "forced" to go to parties during formal rush.

Sorry but this indicated to me that you don't like the term "mutual selection" nor RFM...

No, I like RFM very much. Sororities who invite back women they have no intention of pledging just to say WE GOT MORE FULL PARTIES THAN ANYONE ELSE are poopyheads.

As to "mutual selection," while it is true to a point, in the same way as suicide vs. intentional single preference and rush vs. recruitment, it pretties up what is happening a little too much. Justgowithit summed it up perfectly:

That Seventeen article on rush from eons ago put it in a better way - i.e. letting you know that you are checking the groups out, but somehow making it clear that you were not in charge, but not making it mean. That's the kind of thing that you can't do in a "mutual selection" sound bite.

No one's "railing." I simply stated the process is not mutual if a chapter can drop a rushee but a rushee cannot drop a chapter.

Yes it is...she can drop them at the end. Her only possible sanction would be not being a QA since she didn't maximize her options. And she always has the right to reject any bid offered to her. So, in the final analysis, it's her choice to make. It seems you think everyone ought to have the opportunity to pledge any group. That's not realistic as one side has to initiate the invitations. And in this case, it's the GLO...

Panhellenics go to great lengths to dissuade PNMs from suiciding though. Whether it be the gentle implication that ranking all her choices increases her chances of getting her favorites to the all out "you must list all of them or the computer will drop you and you will not get a bid at all." It's sort of the equivalent of weaker chapters being forced to invite back PNMs they don't want for the sake of numbers.

Question about quota: From what I understand, quota is based on the number of women who attend preference/pref form. What about women who SIP?

That isn't very clear so here is an example.

Say there are four chapters; A, B, C, W. There are 100 PNMs who sign pref forms. Theoretically, quota would be 25 per chapter right?

If so (if not ignore this portion), what happens if 80-90 PNMs sign for either, A and B, B and C, A and C or SIP. What if only 10-20 PNMs have W on their pref form?

Sorry if this is rather simple. I was only on the chapter side of recruitment once and was then a rho gamma where it wasn't explained.

If you're talking about quota within RFM, it is not exactly the number of rushees at preference divided by number of chapters. As I understand it, if that number is 40, they will start with that number and then see how many girls find a home if they go with 39, 38, 41, 42, etc. A quota of 38 can actually place more girls in some scenarios. Thankfully the computer can do all this in a flash so a bunch of old ladies don't have to try to figure it out after hours of manual bid matching.

Greek_or_Geek: Just because some PH's don't explain things properly or coerce PNMs to do things they don't want, the bottom line is still that the choice is the PNM's. How people abuse and misuse the system is another topic altogether.

And yes, DubaiSis, that's how it works with RFM.

Alabama only recently began having 50% of it's PNMs come from out of state. They also dont have 100% rec rates, and I'd bet the highest percentage of women without recs come from that group. Secondly, as you pointed out the GPA is on the girls transcripts that are sent in. I've been talking about TOWSON. I know all about how recs work. I've written several and think they are just fine in their environment. At TOWSON, where you suggested recs would fix the issue of not knowing the PNMs GPAs, we wouldn't have access to the PNMs transcripts BECAUSE they wouldn't be sending them in. You are suddenly going to be able to get 300 girls to work to get recs for 9 groups when they've never had to before AND NPC says you can't tell them it's a requirement? PNMs send their transcripts in for recs in the south because it is part of the process. It has been since the beginning of the sorority movement. In the north, it isn't the case.

Our little local alumnae panhellenic never used to ask for transcripts, and we also never used to ask for the parents' employers. Every sorority had somebody who was a high school teacher in one of the two high schools and could check for grades, and the city directory at the library would tell you where daddies worked.

Then some of the sororities started wanting transcripts, and city directories disappeared.

So, we started putting on our requested info sheets a line for mommy and daddy's employers and a line requesting a transcript.

And our PNMs have eagerly complied! It kinda amazes me what people will do when you ask.

AOPiAngel, I hear ya about the difficulty in getting PNMs to request recs and for alumnae from certain areas to even know what they are when asked. I once worked with a chapter at a Southern school whose students mostly came from the mid-Atlantic and Northern states. They boggled at the idea of PNMs needing to have a recommendation before being invited to pref, and their solution was just to sign one themselves. We worked with them and they began getting the idea when I left office.

Even at Alabama, there are some PNMs for whom we simply cannot find a rec. Sometimes you just have to make the best judgment you can and if you really like her, use one of those back-door ways of getting a rec. But it does make me a little uncomfortable to not have at least an idea of what we're getting into.

I never write a rec if the PNM won't give me her transcript. Seriously, I am not going to vouch for someone without it. And if the chapter asks me for a rec on her, then I ALWAYS ask the chapter if she meets their GPA requirement. If she doesn't, I tell them i won't look for rec info on her. Why bother if they aren't going to pledge her anyway???? If they insist, I'll do it but I will qualify the grade situation.

A line for parent employment in 2012?

Wow.

I am surprised that verification of grades seems such a big issue. I know at Auburn, the registration process for recruitment requires that you submit transcripts and test scores to Panhellenic.

I never even have to ask girls for transcripts... they just provide them! I guess that's the benefit of living in the south.

I didn't think to ask chapters if the girls they contact me about meet the grade requirements... I guess I just assumed that the schools that contact me already have that info (I didn't realize Panhellenic didn't ask for that info at every school!). This is a good idea, Titchou!

Most do give me their transcripts...but there are always a few who don't. And when I was City Sponsorship Chairman, and helped the ones since, I just can't see wasting time getting information on women the chapter knows they will release the first night. I live in Alabama - toooooo many PNMs since we have 5 chapters now in the state not to mention the other SEC schools....you have to draw the line somewhere....