There is one unhoused sorority at iowa and they decided to try fr this year. It was a hard sell.

I hope your daughter is having too much fun to call/text I'm sending positive vibes her way!

4-H is a longstanding member of the CPH, will full rights to vote and hold office. I think this is because they have been there so long, and have a house. They didn't "participate" in the full thing, PNM's just visited their house and learned about them during open houses. They actually recruit graduating high school seniors in the spring and summer before they come to campus, and they are all women who participated in 4-H growing up.

As for the rationale? I think it was largely out of respect for the group, so that women joining the panhellenic community understood what and who they were, but it also had the benefit of making parties slightly smaller. Having more than 50 PNM's at a 25-minute party is really problematic; there is barely enough time to get them through the door before you are escorting them out again.

This is a really nice idea.

It might have been different back when there were more agriculture students (as at any flagship state school) but I'm sure that a lot of women entering the university nowadays have never heard of 4-H, let alone know that it has a sorority.

I just talked to Ava. She was very happy to be going back to 13 parties today.
The girls did rank the houses in order last night 1-18 with 14-18 being their alternate or back up houses. (very well put in a different thread and sounds so much better) She did not receive an invite from her #2 or #5 and it does not sound like anyone was getting their first 13 back. I don't have any actual knowledge of any of this I am just sharing what Ava told me. Ava was very surprised #2 was not on there because she left thinking she had a great conversation and connection there. She had already visited with a house she had ranked lower the previous day and now loves them! It just really drives home the importance of keeping your heart open to the process.

13 invites and with only 2 of her top 13 missing from her schedule? Sounds like things are going well for her so far! I'm also happy to hear that she truly sounds like she's keeping an open mind (by having a not-so-favorite move up in the ranks).

I hope that everything continues to go well for your daughter!

I talked to my daughter on their break, and she did not sound happy. She was going back to 9 parties today. One of her suite mates had 13, another had 5 (according to my daughter, the girl wasn't that into it, and the houses could tell). The other two suite mates had parties similar to my daughter's. She felt bad for her one suite mate, and she felt bad that the one house she really, really liked during Open House had dropped her.

I asked my daughter which houses she was seeing again, and she started to list them off. I was writing them down, and had to stop her to ask her to repeat. She said, "What are you doing? Are you writing them down? Why are you writing them down? Mom, that is just weird!" This is why I will never be able to have a recruitment thread!

Anyway, she called again after it was all over, and she was happy. She enjoyed some of the parties following the break. Keeping our fingers crossed for next weekend!

And telling her you're keeping a bunch of complete strangers up to the minute on her rush experience would NOT help your daughter from thinking you're a freak. HA! But keep at it - this complete stranger wants to hear all about it.

clara's mom:

someone-was it 33girl?- gave some sage advice last year to a pnm who was not invited back to her favorite sorority. she said(and i paraphrase),"you have "x" sororities left. You should try to find a new favorite."

Whoops, got my PNM's mixed up! DG Illinois, good luck friend's daughter and Clara Mom, good luck to your daughter! Hope the week goes by for them quickly.

First of all, thank you so much for the updates! I am super addicted! Considering it's the biggest rush in the nation, we don't get nearly enough UIUC threads.

My rush was the year of the giant computer f**k-up that meant we got the WRONG invitations and then had them revoked. I had a full schedule for second invitational, but it was not the full schedule I had been expecting. My rho chi told me "Ignore everything that has happened up until this point. These are the five chapters on campus. Is there one you could love by bid day?"

(and of course, there was...actually, there were five I could have loved)

yeah, that was what I said. LOL.

I have been trying to give my daughter advice about not picking favorites early on, and every time she has said, rather impatiently, "I know, Mom." But she did pick a favorite, had her heart broken, and apparently has found some other favorites. Now if they will just ask her back to the next round ... I am dying to share with you all what parties she went back to. What do you think?

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and warm wishes! I had a chance to talk with Ava late last night and I did find out a majority of her group had appx 7 parties total to go to, so she felt very lucky to be going back to 13. It does appear the first round cuts were big, but in my opinion, that seems like a much better method in the long run. After 2nd invites she is still madly in love with her favorite since the first day and is trying so hard to keep an open mind, but she did say she will be sad if she does not receive an invite back. But being the smart girl she is, she then rattles off the great things about her remaining houses and how she would be thrilled to be in any of them. She wishes she didn't love this house so much, and is not saying it in a bratty I only belong here way, she really felt like they knew her already and were so happy to see her and she didn't want to leave. I'm hopeful for her, but we both agreed the best home for her is where she is invited back and your new sisters know you're out there and the Greek universe has a way of showing and helping you find your true home. Clara Mom I hope your daughter has a stress free week and hopefully next weekend will get here quickly!

And I'm dying to hear it!



BUT...it may be best if you keep it anonymous for now.

DG Illinois - I LOVE this!

Love that there is a happy ending.
If you look above you can see my responses within the area I was quoting, or I should say trying to quote, somehow I missed the part where what I write is in a different color.

I am curious, how is U of I considered the biggest rush in the nation? Penn State and IU have more NPC chapters than U of I and Alabama had more PNMs register for recruitment. Are the chapters at U of I large in number? Or are Greeks a high percentage of the student body?

Greeks are a large percentage of the student body, and while Penn State and IU currently have more chapters (but U of I recently had a chapter close), quota and total at U of I are higher. While Penn State may have a quota around 18, U of I will typically have a quota in the 50s.

Really enjoying this thread!! Best of luck to all of the Illinois pnm's that we are reading about. I am rooting for an Alpha Phi or Kappa ending!! :)

My rec girl is having a blast! She had 13 parties yesterday, and right now has several "favorites"!

Wow, I had no idea that Penn State quotas were so small. I assumed they would be huge. The chapters are smaller there than I guessed they would be. IU quotas fluctuate because of the bed quota system. Last year the new member classes at Indiana ranged from the mid 30s to the low 90s. Theta Phi Alpha should be colonizing soon at Indiana, I hope someone from TPA will let us know it went.

I was under the impression that U of I has the most women in NPC groups. Maybe Alabama has overtaken them since I was in school.

I think psusue said that total is 90 now. Remember that Penn State also doesn't have sorority houses.

Quick question. I have learned that at some houses legacies get an automatic return invite to the first round. Is this ever the case with a non-legacy recommendation? Do girls with recommendations automatically get an invite to the first party? Just want to know if I should be fretting that two houses she might like only invited daughter back because they had to ...

UIUC was definitely the largest when I was in school, too. Now, Alabama is certainly the largest. I believe UIUC would fall in at about #3 or 4.

This is just for fun, but if campus total meant anything (which we all know it really doesn't), the largest greek systems would be:

1. Alabama 268*17=4,556
2. Auburn 183*17=3,111
3. Missouri 220*14=3,080
4. Illinois 170*18=3,060
5. Georgia 170*17=2,890
6. Florida 161*16=2,576
7. Oklahoma 211*11=2,321
8. Arizona 200*11=2,200
9. Ole Miss 232*9=2,088

As well as Indiana, which would fall in there somewhere, but with 20 chapters and no established total, who knows where.

Of course since chapters may have way over total, or under total, this is not scientific at all.

So much interesting information in the last few posts! I knew that Penn State didn't have houses for sororities, do the fraternities have houses?

As far as Indiana goes, there are 19 chapters currently and most have close to 120 members (appox. 2280). There is no total, which is part of the whole Indiana situation. While there is no official total, of the 19 chapters, I believe that only 7 of them allow live outs. The largest of the chapter houses hold 110-120 women. Therefore if a chapter holds 120 and doesn't allow live outs, they have a self imposed cap of 120. As much as I love Indiana, I think all of the chapters need to allow a certain number of live outs. It would keep many of the chapters from losing their senior leadership just because they are tired of communal living.

I am not sure if Theta Phi Alpha will take that many (120) since they are part of the university's new Greek plan. They will colonize in September and then participate in the open house round in December and then recruit again after formal is over in January. From talking to a former student who is on campus in and Greek leadership, Indiana would eventually like to expand to all 26 NPC chapters. This is many years down the road, but it's a long term goal.

I think that also depends on the Chapter.

My daughter had 5 letters of rec to 5 different houses. If it means anything, she did get invited back to first rounds from all 5. She ended up getting a bid from one of her rec houses.

even if she was invited back due to the chapter's policy, it gives her one more opportunity to shine and impress them.

One of my rec girls checked in and things are going really well so far. She had a conflict and missed one of the two first round sets of parties, so only made it to 9 of 18. (It was a school-related absence, and she notified all the houses by email as directed by her advisors.) She was pleasantly surprised to receive 12 invites back for 2nd round, including 3 from houses she did not make it to first stage. She is keeping an open mind, and has about 6 favorites right now. We'll see how many she gets asked back to for 3rd round, she would be excited if she can max out at 7 for that round.

For the 3 who asked her back when she didn't make it to first round parties, for those who are wondering, she had a rec for one and no rec for the other two. She's relieved she had a rec for the one because it's one of her favorites going in. But again, she is keeping a very open mind.

One surprise she had was how easy it was to make conversation - she had thought talking to essentially strangers would be much more awkward, but she said all the girls she met have been really friendly and easy to talk to. She's having a great time so far. I have my fingers crossed for her that she will have a full dance card for 3rd round.

Good luck to all the other daughters and rec girls as well!

Yes, they have big, beautiful, gorgeous houses that make me drool just thinking about them. (Although I'm sure there's some shacks that I missed when I was there.) I think Penn State might have the largest number of fraternities of any system, but obviously they are not all the same size.

Got an update on my other cute rec girl. Totally exhausted from first and second rounds, but having fun. Had 9 invites after first round, felt disappointed because a friend had 12, and also lost her first round favorite. BUT she heard the average # of invites for 2nd round was lower than hers, around 6 or 7 (though that seems really low). She still has several houses she is very enthused about and is looking forward to 3rd round on Saturday. And of course stressing 'til Friday comes round and she finds out who asked her back...:)

I think back in the day a rec got you a return invitation, but with so many girls knowing about recs and alums "selling" their sorority to the girls in their lives, they couldn't possibly invite back everyone based just on the fact that one was received. HOWEVER, having the rec means they know more about the girl in advance and can have a more directed conversation, which does increase her chances at being invited back. Unfortunately there are lot of girls with stellar credentials who a lot of chapters would love to have, if they only knew!

About 800-950 women start recruitment, but last year I believe only about 450 completed it. A LOT of women drop out because they don't get the invites they want; hence quota is smaller than one would expect.

Yep, they do, and sororities used to have houses before WWII, but after that the cost of living rose and space opened up in the new dormitories so that is where they moved.

Most of the prettiest houses downtown are fraternity houses. Some are smaller and maybe less grand, but so many are beautiful in the architecture and proportions. I still remember on my first visit to PSU I kept saying "I like that house, and that one too" and my mom kept saying "they're all fraternity houses". I remember being so mad that I'd never get to live in them, some look really quaint and magical.

I've heard that if four sororities could move off campus at once that we could have off campus housing, however the chances of four houses suitable for sororities to live in being for sale all at once in State College, where housing and land is at a premium, is unlikely. Therefore we're moving toward the Greek Village concept, but again we'll see where it goes.

I think there are about 52 fraternities at Penn State, though I may be making up that number it's definitely more than 50. They range in size like 33girl said but we do have quite a lot.

//back to your regularly scheduled UIUC programming. ;)

Friday feels like a long way off - sorry but I am really enjoying this thread. Not to mention I don't really care for cliffhangers!

The Second Invitational starts at 8:30 am on Saturday. Do the girls get their invites on Friday night or Saturday morning?

Clara Mom, I was told they get them on Friday -

They get their schedules when they meet with their groups to begin the next round of parties.

Advice for Second Round
 

For all the PNMs going through recruitment at Illinois, here is sage advice (cut and pasted from other ladies here on this thread) going into the Second Invitational:

Cuts will be heavy, because there are so many PNMs going through. 18-13-7-3 means that the cuts get worse as the rounds go on. Be prepared that you might not get invited back to all, or even any, of your favorites. That doesn't mean they all didn't want you back, it just means they had too many girls to consider. All that being said, very few women are released from all chapters. The vast majority not completing recruitment drop out themselves. Here are some things to consider, though, if you don't get all of your favorite invites:

1) You have been invited back to "X" number of sororities. You should try to find new favorites. Some of your favorites changed from Open House to First Invitational, so you know it can happen.

2) At Illinois, tiers and reputations change. Houses once considered "top" have changed over the years - some are like night and day.

3) Every chapter at Illinois has over 150 women. Every chapter has women who party, and women who go to church, and women who study, and women who play sports, etc, etc. Every NPC chapter has a house, and a barn dance, and a formal, and exchanges, etc. Every chapter also has drama.

4) The fraternities vastly outnumber the sororities, something like 50 housed fraternities to 18 sororities. This means that no sorority ever hurts for a social calendar, and every sorority has at least two fraternities that consider that sorority their favorite.:D

5) Even by the second round, there are so many PNMs coming through, that most of the chapters do not assign hostesses, and the PNM is paired with whomever happens to be next in line when she walks through the door. This means that your experience with the chapter has a lot to do with the luck of the draw. Everyone tries to let PNMs meet more than one active, but again, in such large chapters, the PNM is lucky if she meets 10%.

6) Please make sure you maximize your invitations. Even if there are still some chapters where you are not feeling a connection, please be certain to fill out your preferences completely. If you do not do this, you will lose the opportunity to be a quota addition to one of your top choices, if it comes down to that. If you play by the rules, you have a very good chance of getting a bid from one of the three chapters you pref.

7) When bid day finally comes, if it's not your very first choice, or even your second choice, please remember that even though you have received a bid to join the sisterhood you least wanted or expected, if you give it a chance, you may come to realize that it was the place where you belonged most. Please try to keep your heart open and enjoy the fact that the girls in this chapter really want you.

Finally, the best home for you is where you are invited back, where your new sisters know you are out there and want you, and the Greek universe has a way of showing you and helping you find your true home.

good advice for any campus! would you mind changing the highlighted word, "bids" to "invitations"? during formal recruitment, bids only happen after pref. round, and a PNM can only receive one.