She has mentioned Stanford a couple times. It is just SO far from us. Most of these schools are pretty easy for us to get to, at least. Stanford, not so much.

Her second SAT scores should be in on Friday. Most of the schools superscore that and she felt like the math was easier because they'd been reviewing a lot in calculus right before she took this round.

We're waiting for SATs as well! Kid2 said that collegeboard is posting scores on Thursday. He is much more nonchalant about this than was his sister.

Going far away to a college isn't an issue as long as the kid is near a major airport (with easy access to the airport from campus) and summer storage either on or near campus so parents don't have to schlep the stuff back and forth each year. The boy has a couple of midwest schools on his list. One would be very easy since it's in a city that has nonstop service to all 3 airports near DC. The other school, not so much as it is an hour from a small airport and 2 hours from a big one.



Is your D regarding University of Chicago as a safety school or does bottom of the list reflect her preference of campuses in terms of campus fit? It's a shame that schools like Chicago, Penn, and other urban schools in iffy areas haven't been able to gentrify their neighborhoods so that students can venture off campus safely.

:eek::eek::eek:

University of Chicago is not a safety school. Their admission criteria is as strict as Northwestern's. The area right around it didn't seem bad. There were a lot of people out and about in the neighborhoods and it seemed like mostly hipster types. That's usually a sign of gentrification, at least in the Detroit area. The lack of activity on campus on a beautiful fall Saturday afternoon was disconcerting to her. Northwestern had students all over the place. I know it's a smaller school but you'd think we'd see more than 20 students on a campus of 6000. Even when we drove by DePaul there were students on blankets all over the lawn. Some were hula-hooping, some were studying, some were just hanging out, but they were outside.

I kind of think finding the right school is like finding your home in a sorority, buying a wedding dress or buying a house. When you walk on the campus, it just feels right, like home. I know it was like that for me. She felt that feeling at Barnard, Columbia, Northwestern and to a slightly lesser extent, Brown. Personally, I was really uncomfortable on the U Chicago campus. I felt really anxious there and I don't know why. It wasn't the neighborhood. There were two weddings going on at the campus with brides taking pictures in the area. There were a variety of elderly people sitting on benches on the campus. But, where were the students???

And yeah, it would be a stretch financially for me to bring her home for things like Thanksgiving if she was in California. That's a really pricey flight. Providence was a really pricey flight too. NYC or Chicago, easy peasy to get home. With Chicago, there's always the train to Detroit (which is how we got there this weekend).

definitely plan for this. if thanksgiving/christmas are a big deal for your family then she should ideally pick a school that is not too expensive to get to and from from home. while i do not for a second regret my choice of school (2000+ miles from home), i have not been home for thanksgiving all 4 years and this will make the second year i do not go home for christmas (this second time was more my choice since i decided to go on a tour abroad). if i had chosen a school closer to home, then i would have not missed these holidays with my family.

University of Chicago is, in my opinion, the epitome of the ivory tower. The campus is disconnected from the community, and if you look at the academic focus of many departments, they are laden in theory and removed from practical application (for example, they don't even have an engineering program). For years, it had the reputation of being "where fun goes to die", and they actually remade their brochures recently to make sure that they featured more smiling students. It's a great school if you want to live "the life of the mind", but it is its very own world.

Dee, has she thought at all about DC area schools or are they out? I just think that they'd be a really great fit for her, considering her criteria.

I worked with a few UChicago students one summer. (They have this entrepreneur program through the business school and my boss was a student who was running a start up company as part of her coursework...or something like that? lol) Our office was in their college of business building, so I'm a little bit familiar with campus. I definitely agree with your bolded statement.

Pesronally, I did like the immediate neighborhood, although I don't think I'd like to live there as a student. I will agree with you, Dee, that you just did not see students out and about like you do at other campuses.

Because I love hanging out on college campuses I have to reply.

UChicago: Ditto on what has already been said. It used to be said that it was a place where the students had to "marry the library for 4 years to get a degree." Maybe that's where they all were. It is for hyperintellectuals. Nice place to visit, but I don't know about going there.

DePaul: Nice campus atmosphere! A few years back it was known to rank #1 in some "student satisfaction" survey. I've never heard anything bad about it, and Greek life is really growing there.

Loyola: I worked here for a few years; and my 3rd brother went here. The Jesuits are educators. I like the idea of a Jesuit education, but personally prefer Marquette (Milwaukee).

Both of the DePaul and Loyola are excellent back-up/safety schools for an intellectual student.

Northwestern: I saved the best for last. My 2nd brother went here. It has a wonderful atmosphere academically and socially. Evanston is a neat town. Sigma Chi, SAE, and APhi all have their national headquarters here. I would feel very safe sending a student here.

One thing I love about Chicago is all the different colleges and universities. We have such a variety. I remember when my 1st brother was going to college and the whole family took a trip to several of the Eastern colleges. We both ended up going somewhere that we had never seen before and took a chance. Going on those pre-college trips is alot of fun but its alot of work, too. Good luck to your daughter. :)

She is applying to American University. We are just out of time and funds to visit there. If she gets accepted and doesn't get accepted to one she already loves, we'll visit before she commits.

Thank you. We had very similar impressions of all of them, even with quick drive bys with some of them. We did see the SAE headquarters. I wanted to take a picture but you know, I didn't want to embarrass my daughter.

Thanks. That's good feedback too. I don't think that kind of atmosphere is for her.

While she wants to live the life of the mind, she's also very social so I don't see that working for her.

Thanks to all of you! It really confirmed our own impressions. I'll have her stop by to read these.

That's definitely something to think about. My flights to Providence (from my small hometown airport) usually ran about $300-$400, and I had layovers in Memphis AND Detroit. I was always exhausted upon arrival at my final destination. After my freshman year, I started flying into Logan at Thanksgiving and it turned out to be about $175-200 (I also stretched it so I left on Tuesday and came back Saturday). Logan is only worth it if you're saving more than $75-100, since you'd have to pay for the airport shuttle or train to Providence. I still managed to make it home every Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Spring Break except for Thanksgiving and Spring Break of my senior year (I went on vacations with my boyfriend instead). If you jiggle the days around, you can find affordable airfare.

I was on campus this weekend for meetings and went to some presentations about the campus expansion. Some very exciting things are in the pipeline! More than anything, I'd love for my niece to go there but I won't pressure her. :)

Munchkin: Our flight to Providence from Detroit was $440 each! It may be worth it to try Logan instead if she goes there.

Plus ther are a lot of bus routes around there. Plymouth and Brockton busses are the reason I marched this past winter.

Dee, I was able to fly from Providence to Detroit for about $200 per ticket (including tax). If you can buy the tickets far enough in advance and time it right, you can get some pretty good deals.

$440 is a lot...but weren't you flying over Labor Day weekend? That's going to push the prices up a lot. Right now DTW-PVD looks like somewhere in the $220-270 range.

Regardless of where she might end up, sticking with one airline and doing FF miles might be the best way to go. I think I got a free flight sometime in the beginning of sophomore year, and had a few more by the time I graduated. :)

I've got her on a FF program and with all the traveling I'm doing for work and all the programs I signed up for, I should be getting some free flights. I have my car rentals, hotels and delta sky miles all going to delta sky miles.

You mentioned concerns with Stanford and the cost of flights but the average price I find round trip from Detroit to San Francisco is at or under $300.

I don't know of many schools that have a full week of break at Thanksgiving like Idaho does, so travel possibility and cost may be a factor a lot of places if she has a class that meets Wednesday and/or Monday as well as projects due right after break. Thanksgiving is an important holiday for a lot of people but she's going to make friends and likely know someone who lives closer she can go home with and stay over the few days instead of a whirlwind trip.

Time is another element in traveling for a short period of time like Thanksgiving too though. It takes an entire day to get here from California, because you lose three hours! Renting a U-Haul to get her out there with a three day drive is a little overwhelming to me too, admittedly. Chicago is a one hour flight or a 5 hour train ride or drive in comparison. NYC is a longer drive, for sure, but still doable in one day. She doesn't seem that interested in going quite that far away either, which is ok with me.

You may not need that UHaul. Bed, Bath and Beyond will allow you to buy items at any store and have it waiting at the store closest to the college. They also have lists online of the college housing restrictions in terms of allowed and forbidden small appliances, whether the dorms all have XL or regular length twin beds....

You also may want to check if the college provides summer storage or are there facilities nearby?

I went to school 12 hours away from my home. My parents drove me out during freshman year and picked me up at graduation. I flew home for all other travel but again both my home and the school were in major cities. My school did provide storage in a dorm during the summer which made it very easy. I have no idea if they still do that

My D's school was only 4 hours away but it was located in a rural area. Despite the fact that it was at least an hour to a small airport and about 3 hours to a major one, they had a full complement of kids from across the country. No summer storage was provided so she did have to bring everything back and forth each summer.

We definitely did not do the U-Haul. Dorms, at least at the schools your daughter is interested in, have basic furniture like a bed, shelves, a desk, and occasionally a wardrobe. At the time I started college, however, you could still check 3 large bags at no additional cost...so, my father and I ended up packing a lot of stuff and flying it up. Still, most of that stuff was bedding, clothing, and smallish items like books. The lamps, computer, etc., we just picked up at Best Buy or BB&B once we arrived.

There was an option to rent fridges/microwaves from the school...they dropped them off in September and picked them up during the last few days of the Spring semester. Extremely convenient.

I had summer storage through the sorority but I think other students were able to get it as well.

Both my undergrad and the undergrad of the university that I attended for graduate school have large numbers of international students and kids from all over the US--so they made things like delivery of items and rental of small appliances extremely easy.

If she's living in a dorm room there is no need to bring a U-Haul, and if she wants things from home sometimes it is not cost prohibitive to ship it as extra luggage, cargo on the flight, or ship it another way, I think PhoenixAzul as well as others used Greyhound shipping with positive results.

My parents didn't take me to school, so I took everything as luggage one time or in my car the other time and bought things when I got there. There was no storage in the dorms when I did my stint there and everything was kept in our room under the bed or on top of the wardrobe. In the summer people get storage units and usually share with friends to get a bigger one at lower cost. I know people who put theirs cars in storage units over the summer instead of leaving them parked in town or on campus.

Her second set of SAT scores are in. Her English went down slightly, math went up a little, writing went up a lot. All of her schools superscore so with the top scores in each, she's looking at 1920 which puts her in the "middle 50's" for every school. Meaning, 50% of admitted students have a score in the range which includes her score. She's happy :) Scores have been sent. She went to an admissions essay writing workshop at the University of Michigan on Tuesday evening.

Early acceptance apps are due Nov 1/15 (depending on the school). She has definitely decided not to do early decision anywhere.

Things were so much easier when I applied to college..lol.

First thing, love your story! I am doing the same thing with grad school.

Okay, so first I want tell you about what got me to attend my undergrad #1. I went to the collge of saint benedict/s ain't johns univeristy in mn. I am from ohio, so its a bit far. But I loved everything I read and applied. They offer a program for out of state students to come visit for the weekend. All I had to pay was half of my plane ticket. Stayed on campus and learned about the school. They got us between the airport and school, food, everything! It is really well known and big on study abroad, two things that drew me in.

While CSB has alot of similar things, I recommend seeing if Stanfordd has a program like that. Or any out of state school she wants to see. Link for csb program below:
-Kat

http://www.csbsju.edu/Admission/visit/flyin.htm

AGDee, I'm enjoying this more than a recruitment thread! Best wishes for your daughter in her search.

Yes, I do think it was a lot easier when we selected a college (although I didn't have your daughter's high SAT score!). I do think it's a big decision -- just think of how many things are impacted by where you went to college -- your friends, your GLO, maybe your spouse, maybe where you live, etc.

Of the schools she's visited, I'm kinda pulling for Northwestern. Looking forward to seeing how it all ends up!

AGDee, what are her match schools? Or is she fond enough of her safeties that matches are beside the point?

I'm pulling for American, Northwestern, Barnard, and UMich, in that order. Not that I have any say in this, but this IS far more exciting than a recruitment thread IMO. I loved college searching, it was a huge process for me and I am beyond happy about where I ended up.

In that vein I also want to say that I absolutely did NOT want to go to Penn State at first, for a multitude of reasons, but now I absolutely love it. So even if for some reason (and not that I think this would happen, but still) she does not end up at her first choice (for financial, distance, whatever reason) she could still end up being very happy somewhere else. In terms of schools, I ended up where I belonged. I can only hope the same for hypoallergenic.

Also, is it bad I'm hoping she chooses UMich just so she could go AGD? Yes I did check the Greek systems of all the schools to see where it was located. We always tell high schoolers not to do that, but I'm not one so I hope I'm exempt. ;)

While her sat is very respectable, I encourage not relying on it. I don't know much about your daughter (haven't read anything you've said about her on here so I don't know any other stats you've specified), but I assume she has a high gpa and has taken the more challenging classes that her school offers. Also, assuming good extracurriculars. At this point she should really work hard on the essays. Everyone who applies to schools like northwestern and Columbia have sat scores that are around that, and many are higher. It will of course be the extras that can make or break her chances. Essays can play a pretty good role in that.
Good luck to you and your daughter! Applying for colleges is one of the most difficult, stressful times!

That's probably why it's called the "mid-50% range." 25% of the applicants have scores higher than that; the other quarter have scores that are lower. :)

And the kids in the bottom 25% are many times the ones with the hooks such as athlete, legacy, URM, etc

For me, there were three schools in state that had my rare major (Occupational Therapy). One of them was a commuter school, so that was out. One offered me a partial scholarship. The other offered me a full ride (tuition) and was where my boyfriend at the time was a student. It was a no brainer decision. I had also felt "at home" from the first time I stepped foot on Eastern Michigan's campus so it just all fit into place.

Hypoallergenic still has a 4.0 (AP Calc and Physics are threatening that at the moment but her Calc teacher said at conferences that she has the highest score in the class so she shouldn't worry) and has taken as many challenging courses as she can at her school. Her extracurriculars are good with a lot of community service and leadership- NHS, Girl Scouts, Interact (youth Rotary club). Her 1's at state solo & ensemble along with five years of marching band with two of them as clarinet section leader shows her dedication (and an additional talent, even though she's not going to major in music.) She also works about 15 hours a week. Her test scores are not as good as a lot of those applicants and she knows that. She isn't a good standardized test taker because she is slow with test taking. Her recommendations are also very good.

We know that this is true of every single student applying to some of these schools. I believe her essays and her Scholastic Arts & Creative Writing Silver Key will be her strongest assets. She is a writer.. it's what she is, and her essays are very different, very creative. That will appeal to some schools but they may not appeal to other schools. The people who ran the Young Women's Leadership Institute told the young ladies in that program that, while most of the pre-college programs don't help that much, they are much more selective about admission to that program so their participation in that will be a point in their favor at Barnard. She did receive an excellent evaluation from that program but I don't know if there is a way for her to attach to the applications or not. I feel pretty certain that Barnard will have that on record for her though.

Her "match" schools are U of M, American, and Tulane. DePaul is a safety for sure. The rest are reach schools and she knows it. Barnard is pretty close to a match though. They simply don't get as many applicants because of the misconception about it being an all girl's school. She has a slight advantage that we live in a primarily blue collar area and someone in the know has told me that this area, for schools like Brown, are considered geographically diverse because most applicants from our state are from the wealthier suburbs.

We had a long talk the other day, on the way home from Chicago, about rejection and how she will handle that. She hasn't failed at anything in her life because she just has this inner drive and she makes things happen when she wants it. She will get rejected from some of these schools. She said "I will be fine because I know I'll end up where I'm supposed to be". Does that sound like a recruitment thread or what? LOL

We also talked about sororities because she mentioned replacing U-Chicago with Syracuse. She is not at all sure that she would be interested in joining a sorority. She thinks my obsession with squirrels is very weird...lol. I very honestly told her that it would be really hard for me if she went to Syracuse and didn't at least check out our chapter there, especially since it is our Alpha chapter. I would have an easier time if she went to U of M and didn't go through recruitment. It is almost a relief to me that the other schools she is going to don't have Alpha Gam chapters. I told her I don't want to pressure her and the decision is totally up to her but that I will honestly struggle, especially if she was at Syracuse. Personally, I think she will want to join a sorority because she is a joiner person. The sorority would give her the same kind of bonding that she experienced in marching band and she will miss that "family" feeling. I really don't want her to join Alpha Gam just to please me though. At the same time, I really want her to be an Alpha Gam. If she goes to a school that doesn't have a chapter, then all pressure is off for both of us.

She did get in touch with admissions people from Northwestern this week because she's really torn between Medill (Journalism) and SESP (Social Policy). She wanted to know if admission criteria was different for different colleges within the University. She was told that there is not a difference. Her letter to them was very enthusiastic about how much she loved the school... it was cute (to her mom anyway).

And, this is probably my last update for a while because we won't know anything until December 1st for the schools that have early action. My gut feeling is that she's going to end up at Barnard. That's just parent's intuition. We have a long wait to find out if I'm right or not!

Where has she applied early action?

I'm sure you know this already but NU has deferred rush, so she'd be in a position to get to campus, check things out, and then make her decision on that.

And while the formal "admission criteria" may not be different, each college at NU makes its own admission decisions. I don't know if you can still do this, but back in my day, people would get rejected from one and reapply to another.

Well, that would be correct. If it fell into the middle 50%.

According to Princeton Review, the middle 50% SAT score for Northwestern is:
Critical Reading: 670-750
Math: 690-780
Writing: 670-750
So if we add up the lowest of the middle 50% scores, we have 670+690+670. This equals 2030. Which is higher than her score.

For Columbia, the middle 50% scored between 2100 and 2330 (according to Columbia's website)

Looking up Barnard, Brown, and University of Michigan, they are all pretty high.

This is not meant to put down, just stating facts.

Directed toward AGDee now: With your daughters extracurriculars and work, along with being from a more blue collar area, I still think she has a good chance at some of these schools. They do look for diversity.
But please make sure she does not get her heart set on just one or two. When my first choice rejected me, I was absolutely crushed and though my life was over and it didn't matter where I went. I was heartbroken and apathetic for quite a while. I really hope this doesn't happen to her.
It sounds like she will end up at a great school no matter what. She sounds pretty impressive :)

I'm pretty sure Columbia isn't happening. I think she knows it too. With Brown, from what she's read, they like the creative type essays so that would help her there. I should also mention that her SAT scores are really skewed. She did exceptionally well in English and Writing and closer to average in math. For some schools (like Medill at Northwestern), this could help her too, because it's writing and English that will be her focus in college. We'll see though. I am working on her not getting her heart set on one or two.

I don't remember which of the schools she's applying for early action other than U of M and De Paul. There are two others, I think, that have that option without it being binding.

I'm actually really, really familiar with the facts of two of those colleges in particular. :) Private schools have the benefit, that most state universities don't, of being very holistic in their admissions processes. At least one of those colleges above does not include athletic recruits in their SAT accounting, which probably skews it up a little bit.

My niece starts the admissions process (officially) in two years. Eeeek!

Tulane is warmer!!!!

Just sayin......;)

She is using collegeprowler to determine target versus reach schools. She updated her SAT scores there and it's something like (she didn't tell me all of her percentages):

De Paul- Target 81% (highest one)
U of M- Target
Tulane- Target
American University- Target


The lowest percentages were Columbia and Brown at 45%, Northwestern was 48%, Barnard was 53%. I think Wash U was 46%

Wash U is not need blind (dumb), also, which could be a hindrance to being accepted if you cannot pay fully.

They claimed they were at the presentation we went to, but I'm not sure I believe that about any of them anyway.

Oh, the other factor, which nobody prints, is SAT II scores. We have no idea where she really falls with those scores, but they were above the 70th percentile and we figure, since only kids trying to get into these kinds of schools even take those, that's pretty good.